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MINUTES
WATERTOWN TOWN COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
POLK SCHOOL LIBRARY
MONDAY, JULY 15, 2002, 8:00 P.M.
PRESENT: Elaine Adams
Lee Archer, Chairman
Raymond Hebert, Jr., Vice Chairman
Robert Kane
Jean King
Raymond Primini
Paul Rinaldi
Paul Valenti
Richard Wick
ABSENT: None
OTHERS PRESENT: Jack Carroll, Police Chief
Charles Frigon, Interim Town Manager
Randy McHugh, Town Attorney
Frank Nardelli, Assistant Town Manager/Finance Director
Harry Ward, Parks Director
1. Call Meeting To Order
Mr. Archer, Chairman, Called the Meeting to Order at 8:00 p.m.
Mr. Archer, Chairman, Called a Recess (television cameras were being set up).
Mr. Archer, Chairman, Reconvened the Regular Meeting at 8:10 p.m.
2. Roll Call
Ms. LaForme, Board Clerk, executed the Roll Call.
3. Pledge of Allegiance
Mr. Archer, Chairman, led the Pledge of Allegiance.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 2
4. Public Participation
Craig Cordon, 58 Earle Avenue, Oakville, CT 06779
Mr. Cordon: There's a proposal tonight on the Agenda from the Lion's Club to renovate one of the fields up at Veteran's Memorial Park and I'd like to see the Town Council look at that favorably. First of all it's a very generous offer from the Lion's Club which wouldn't cost us anything which is a nice plus with our budget problems right now. It would take some manpower, which the Lion's Club has offered too, and also some of the organizations in Town are also willing to do that. Hopefully the Town Council will look at that favorably and we get a first class field for Softball next year.
Ron Russo, Chairman, Parks and Recreation Commission
Mr. Russo: You do have the documents that the gentleman spoke of. We have members of the Parks
and Recreation Commission here tonight, the Subcommittee who worked on this proposal. We're here
strictly for informational purposes. We did give you a lot of background probably more than you needed,
but we wanted to be complete. If anyone has any questions, of course we are supporting this proposal also.
Al Carr, 740 Hamilton Avenue, Watertown, CT 06795
Mr. Carr: I got a copy of the report done of the speeding problem out on Hamilton Avenue and would
like to know if anyone has any information about what is going to be done about it.
Mr. Archer: We don't have that report in hand at this particular time. I think that report was
commissioned by the Police Commission.
Mr. Carr: This was from Philip Deleppo.
Mr. Archer: It hasn't been forwarded to us at this time. I believe the proper channel it's supposed to go
through is the Police Commission as they are the traffic authority in Town. I understand there was an issue
last week with a meeting being cancelled, without any notice of it being cancelled. Is that correct?
Mr. Carr: Yes.
Mr. Archer: Chuck, this came up as an issue during the Budget Public Hearing. This gentleman and a
group of about 6, 7 other people had come to review these findings in this study with the Police
Commission, and apparently they had cancelled both Summer meetings and I guess there was no feedback
back to them that it was cancelled. Is the only function currently to notify people that a meeting has been
cancelled, a posting on Town Hall?
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 3
Mr. Frigon: Yes (inaudible). We make an attempt to post that on the Internet as well, but that's the only
method we have at this time.
Mr. archer: I know we asked you to come here so I want to make sure I'm absolutely clear as to exactly
what happened. Did any members of the Police Commission know that you were coming to review this
particular document that night?
Mr. Farr: Not that I'm aware of. What I'm concerned about is we got a petition together over 6 months
ago with quite a few names on it to address the speeding problem down Hamilton Avenue, which this study
and you say this has not been forwarded to you or this Board? If it hasn't I'll be glad to make copies of it
and give it to you personally. The communication is not the best around here about who does what and who
has what, but I personally would take it upon myself to make copies of all of this and present it to each and
every person in Town if that would help. It seems that the Town has a problem communicating with all of us
so it would be no problem for me to do this personally, if that's what it takes to get the Town Council or
someone to address it.
Mr. Archer: I don't know that that's what we need to do.
Ms. Adams: I think what you may be referring to with Phil Deleppo is a report he did for the State to look
for some help. I guess there's a hump there and I believe he put together something. This was awhile ago if
I'm not mistaken.
Mr. Carr: Quite a while ago.
Ms. Adams: 8 months, I mean, it was quite awhile ago and I don't believe we received it yet, but Phil feels
it's a safety issue and it's a good chance we'll receive some, I believe it's federal money, toward this for
hazardous road maintenance or things along those lines. I'm not completely familiar, but when we have a
break here you and I can speak.
Mr. Carr: What was done, we complained about the speeding issue, and I think it's a known fact
throughout the Town at the Safety Meeting the first time we went there, I forget who it was, but he was ware
of this and said openly that he's been aware of it for numerous years. There has been a study done that
shows there is an extreme speeding problem there. They've got a report from Deleppo to try to get the hump
cut out. The funding has already been approved to take the curve out, near the dump at Artillery Road.
Taking that curve out and cutting this hump is going to do one thing – increase the speeding.
Ms. Adams: Were you looking for Stop Signs to slow down the traffic?
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 4
Mr. Carr: Well I don't have the training, and I wonder if anyone in this Town does, to analyze the problem
and come up with the answer, a quick, cheap solution would be several Stop Signs. Now I'm aware of the
fact that's it's supposedly even illegal in this State to use Stop Signs for speed control. Personal opinion –
idiocracy. Whatever it takes to slow the people down, as this report plainly shows, there's people running in
excess of 75 mph in a 25 mph zone. They're passing on the left hand side on a double yellow line, passing
on a double yellow line in a school zone, I mean it's just out of hand. I myself personally had an accident like
4 weeks ago. A guy was trying to pass me on the left-hand side, flying. I happen to look in the rear view
mirror and saw him flying up the side of me. I was making a left hand turn. I pulled back in the right lane, he
already pulled back in the right lane and sped past me on the right hand side hitting me, passing in the grass,
partially hit me and left the scene, went up past my house at 740 Hamilton, and then went through the Stop
Sign at Quassy trying to get away from me, and almost caused another accident.
Now whether it's the Safety Committee, whether it's the Town Council, whether it's the State Police, the
Federal F.B.I. or whoever I have to go to, I would love to see something done to decrease the speeding, the
passing on the double yellow line, flying by school busses while they're parked picking up my kids.
Numerous times the black marks are still on the road there where they passed the school bus sliding on
brakes, when he's on top of that hill (inaudible) school bus. They just come flying down that road all day and
all night. We brought a petition with over 200 names on it. Yes, they did this little research and come up with
these numbers, which just proves our point. Yes, we have seen increased police activity in that area with
radar. The first report that we got from the Police Department was some big number of people that they
stopped speeding. I forget the exact numbers, but like 1/10 of them were given tickets, the others were
given warnings, no one was arrested.
I'm asking for some help. That's the reason I'm here tonight, for that one reason. I'm looking for someone to
tell me how, short of my parking my car in the middle of the road and stopping these idiot people from
driving so fast, what can I do to stop the speeding on that road. Now I know it's a bad problem in a lot of
places. I'm here tonight speaking about the problem on Hamilton Avenue. Can anyone direct me to the
person or persons, committee, state affiliation, whatever, can someone please help me?
Mr. Archer: Can you give me a minute?
Mr. Carr: Yes, sir.
Mr. Archer: I'm going to put someone on the spot here. Jack, I wondered if you could enlighten us a little
bit on how the traffic laws work and why . . . . .
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 5
John Carroll, Police Chief
Mr. Carroll: As the gentleman just stated, there has been increased activity out there. We hit that area
pretty hard, and we're continuing to hit it. We have the study. Phil Deleppo, we have a new device that
actually calculates the speed, even the temperature of the road, and so forth and there's no question – it's not
only Hamilton Avenue, but it's all over Town. We're doing the best we can do on that. We've increased our
activity out there. We have the documentation on how many . . . . we did make arrests out there, there's no
question about, and we'll continue to do that, but in the meantime it's just a state of where we are, doing the
best we can with what we have. But as far as, the Police Commission has this report. They won't be
meeting until September, and until that time I'll certainly direct activities again out there. That's the best I can
do.
Mr. Archer: But to the best of my knowledge, well okay, the Police Commission needs to take action on
the report and make recommendations to you.
Mr. Carroll: That's correct.
Mr. Archer: And then they make recommendations, I'm sorry, I'm just trying to work through this in my
head.
Mr. Carroll: Without (inaudible) recommendations we're out there because we do receive complaints and
we act on those complaints. We have the target times according to that report and we're acting on those
target times when the speeding is at the time where it is just not reasonable. So that's the time that we're
going out there. That's what this report indicated to us. There's certain times of the day, certain days of the
week, that we activate our patrols out there and we have the resources to do such. And that's basically what
we're doing. That's how we're handling the problem right now. The issue of Stop Signs, obviously you
know the concerns are with that that it's not a regulation for speed. The only regulation for speed is
enforcement and that's where we're at. I can understand this man's problem. I go out that road every day. I
mean I stop cars myself out there, and again we run into the problem that it is residents that are usually the
culprits in the area and we like to give them a break, at one time, and do a little bit of public relations, but if
it's excessive, he's talking about 70 mph, there's no reason for that at all, and that's handled with strict
enforcement.
Mr. Archer: No, he didn't say it doesn't happen . . . . .
Mr. Carr: No, I'm saying would you like to see it?
Mr. Archer: Absolutely.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 6
Mr. Carroll: Yea, it's pretty comprehensive. We do have that device, the Highway Department has that
device where again we institute it on Middlebury Road to see what the difference was, when they instituted
the Stop Signs, to see if that was a factor or to, and we'll be actively using that device throughout the
Summer. It's pretty comprehensive as to what the times are, when the speeds are occurring, what types of
vehicles they are practically. It's something that's going to be very useful to us and be able to put our
resources in at the timing of the actual violations, so there's certain times that it's a high risk, and that's when
the activity is taking place, and that's the time when we should be targeting it instead of going out there and
we're not using our resources to the best of our ability all day, and just having a Police presence. We want it
to do something and there's been documentation that we do have a lot of. I think the man can verify that he
has seen Police vehicles out there more than he's ever seen them out there, and we have taken a lot of action
out there, more so than any other road in Town at this point. But it's not only Hamilton Avenue. It is a
continuing problem throughout the State. I don't think you can go on 84 and do 55 without getting run over.
Mr. Archer: Even after the Police Commission meets and reviews this study, I mean they can make any
recommendation to you, but they're not necessarily within the confines of the State Statutes. What are the
other, than sitting out there and nabbing people when they come by, what else is there that can be done?
Mr. Carroll: My point at my level, within my scope of my authority, the only thing I can take action on is
the enforcement, and that's what brings it down, nut it brings it down, unfortunately, not for the long period of
time that we'd like it to be. But the advertisement is out, we put the trailer out, I think this man has seen the
trailer out there on many occasions. You might laugh at it but it works.
Mr. Carr: Well it shows people . . . . may I speak?
Mr. Carroll: I'll tell you, it shows people what they're doing, but it is a deterrent. When you're coming up
on that thing you don't know if there are Police up the road or not. We don't have the resources to actively
use it to the fullest compliment that we can, then you know, at least it's something out there. There is a
presence out there, there's a big presence out there. I can understand this man's concerns and we're doing
the best we can with what we got.
Mr. Archer: I understand it completely myself. I live on 7 hills and that's a race track up there
Mr. Carroll: That's the next target right there. That's absolutely absurd what they do out there.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 7
Mr. Archer: And I've seen the bus thing happen with my kids crossing (inaudible).
Mr. Carroll: There's a bus thing with the State. Bus drivers can report, and we will issue summons and we
have issued summons on vehicles that passed school busses, just on the driver's report alone. So that's an
issue that, if a car passes or even comes close to violating the school bus violation, that that report. If it's
issued by the school bus driver, it's taken seriously and we issue a summons on every school bus violation
that is reported and commented by school bus drivers. If something went screaming by a school bus and it's
reported by the school bus driver that can be taken seriously and it is.
Mrs. Carr: It's only (inaudible) though, correct?
Mr. Carroll: Correct.
Mr. Kane: Is it possible, or maybe you're already doing this, to have a Police Officer at the time that
children are let off and at the time that they're picked up, is that possible or does that make sense?
Obviously it's happening probably 24 hours a day, but most importantly when school gets out and . . . .
Mr. Carroll: Well at one time we had officers track school busses if there's a problem, and watch the
stops, that's the best way to do it. But to sit at a stop, that would be taking a lot of resources to track every
school bus stop, but we've done that on occasion when there's been problems with a school bus run, if it's a
hazardous run, or there has been reports from school bus drivers of near misses or not, people coming the
other way and not acknowledging the fact that those caution lights are on, we do that.
Mr. Kane; No, but I mean at the school itself. I assume that's where the problem is happening, going by
the school. Oh, you're saying when they let the kids off at their house.
Mr. Carroll: I think what he's referring to is at every stop, when they let the stop, you know there is a
problem with that hill out there. That's the natural configuration of the road. I don't know what the
Engineering Department is going to do with that, but if you make the road straighter and wider you're going
to make it faster.
Mr. Carr: Thank you.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 8
Mr. Carroll: There are some people that deter road construction because of that reason. I mean that also
is a hazard, but evidently it's just a matter of having the resources within our Department is to enforce it, and I
still believe that when we enforce it, and on a regular basis we could do, in areas that have a problem, that
speed definitely comes down, because somebody is going to be walking away with a $140, $180 ticket, and
that's the only thing. When you hit them in the pocketbook, it makes sense. But you're going from Stop Sign
to Stop Sign and you're speeding in between and you're increasing that speed and increasing danger of
people rolling through Stop Signs, you're creating a bad habit and the National Transportation Authority will
tell you that that is not the way to go. In fact it is a dangerous situation to promote that. I mean I can see
them I some intersections, but if you're going to Stop Sign that place all the way up the road, you're going to
see a lot of skid marks, and you're going to see a lot of people developing the habit of rolling through a stop
sign and there's going to be, the worst collisions you have are intersection collisions.
Mr. Archer: Is that the logic behind that Statute?
Mr. Carroll: Right there's a lot of logic and a lot of information about it. There' actually seminars, I can
bring you information that will show you that is not the way to do it, that enforcement is the way to do it, and
I hope that, I'm sure he's seen us out there. There's no question we've been out there.
Ms. King: I just had a couple of thoughts on this. First of all would it be possible for you to ask the Police
Commission to have a meeting before September with the people from Hamilton Avenue. I mean I
understand people want to cancel meeting because there aren't many people around, but I don't think it's
necessarily fair for them to wait for September. Maybe you could ask them to have a Special Meeting and
schedule it with these people. Secondly I'm struck by the fact that we have two departments in Town, that
sounds to me working at cross purposes, both with the best of intentions. Jack is doing is best to keep
people from speeding. Phil is trying to find a way to make the road better so people can speed on it. That's
not what he's trying to do; he's trying to make it safer, but that's what is really bothersome to me, on how we
figure out that kind of communication between the two departments. It may be up to the Manager to say, we
routinely if Phil comes in here from Public Works and says we're going to apply for a grant to take a nasty
curve out of the road or a bump, we think that's great, but don't know that in fact we may be making
something worse. One other thing I'd like to say to the Chief, if there's any way that we can say to you that
we're supportive of you giving tickets to people without trying to be too nice to them, I mean, I think we've
reached a point in this Town where I understand that you're trying to give people a first chance and maybe
more but as you said, if you give people tickets then they stop speeding. Just say that we would be behind
that because we know it doesn't make good (inaudible).
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 9
Mr. Carroll: No, it's not that we are being nice to them, but if you have a person who's making the
complaint in the neighborhood, and 2 days later you get them going 60 mph, I think that person should be
slammed. I've got no problem with that.
Ms. King: Absolutely.
Mr. Carroll: I'm just talking about the person who is habitually in that area and extend that courtesy the first
time, because if they're doing it once, they're going to be doing it again, unless . . . . I'm not condoning
speeding by any means, but I'm talking about someone who is excessive, but I don't think there's anyone, if
you travel Hamilton Avenue, you're not going to go 25 mph. No one in this room is going to go 25 mph.
And you're not going to do it on Middlebury Road either. There's going to be occasion where you're going to
step over that line, but the same thing is saying that we are in the community relations business and sometimes
that's the individual's officer's discretion and that's what I watch is that discretion. If they're giving no tickets
then I'll step in and say what happened out there? Well one does it all the time and one doesn't we have that
situation sometimes, but I'm not just saying that the policy is to let them go. Everybody gets stopped and let
go sometimes, but that's our opinion.
Ms. Adams: I agree with Jean that I really think we need the Police Commission to meet some time in the
very near future to discuss this with the residents there. I take a little exception to the comments regarding
coming out and making roads faster. My understanding of getting rid of the hump in the road was because of
site lines. People going either way could not see what was after that, and that was also based on resident's
complaints.
Mr. Carroll: Well my point was if you're going to do it, it's going to happen whether it's for safety or not.
That bump has been under consideration for many years.
Ms. Adams: I understand. Now the third thing I think when I'm hearing tonight and what I'm just seeing in
Town is we have a lot more people moving into Town, more people, more traffic, more cars, more speeding,
etc. I think it all seems to me, especially what's on the table now with Planning and Zoning what's coming
down the pike with all these subdivisions, (inaudible) seriously look at is increasing the amount of officers in
the Police force to go out and take care of its citizens. We discussed this a couple of weeks ago, that there's
a need.
Mr. Archer: Which is going to require year over year support of the budget in order to pay for those
officers.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 10
Mr. Carroll: Well I'll second that. In fact we actually are pursuing grants with the Department of
Transportation right now into the development of a safety program. The Town Manager is aware of that and
we're prepared to present something tonight, but we're researching it a little deeper, but we're going into
other alternatives on how to prevent this problem with speeding because it's going to be one of our top
priorities due to the increase in Town, and that's where we're at right now.
Mr. Wick: There is an old fashioned remedy that I saw a little over a year ago in England - speed bumps –
and when I questioned the appropriateness of it, what I was told was that they construct and engineer them
for almost any speed that is desired, and the idea is that the speed bump would be a natural way to control
speed, because of the engineering of the bump if someone goes significantly over that speed limit, he will be
doing damage to his car, so after awhile people learn to deal with speed bumps with respect. Is that a
possible solution in our modern day and age here?
Mr. Carroll: I'd have to refer that to the engineers. I'm not going to go there.
Mr. Wick: I don't think it's an engineering problem; it may be a bureaucratic problem, but it stands to
reason that it works because it's sort of a corollary to the potholes that used to be on some of the roads in
Town which were natural speed control devices.
Mr. Carroll: There's possibilities in everything with the new dimensions that go on and the new
technologies. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. Someday you won't be driving your car anymore, it will be done
remotely. But as far as speed bumps goes, when you put something in the road, whether public or State
Highway, someone assumes the liability for whatever you put in the road, whatever that device is. As we
well know on the Main Street, if you put crosswalk signs up and someone runs them over, you're responsible
for them. So that's the issue. That's the only thing I step up and take issue with. If we were held harmless
and the Town was held harmless and it was a way of reducing speed, you could put stop sticks our there,
I've got no problem with that.
Mr. Kane: Although I agree with Jean and Elaine, as the Chief said, this is a Town-wide problem, and not
just Hamilton Avenue area. Being the Town Council, the highest authority in Town, maybe it's something that
we have to do to bring public attention to this matter in the form of a public hearing, or some type of Town
meeting, but we need to bring it to the attention of the public, not just a particular Commission, so I think we
should take it to a higher level and have the full Council bring it to the public, whether it's an educational
session, or a public safety session, and have the Police involved and all the departments, but I think we need
to solve this Town-wide, not just one particular neighborhood.
Mr. Archer: So two things, Chuck. I do think there is sort of a thing where we're got. we may have
different departments pulling in different directions.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 11
Mr. Frigon: Phil is well aware of the speeding problem on Hamilton Avenue. This is a condition that has
been reported. There have been complaints on both positions. There have been accidents at both sites and
Phil (inaudible) so does not consider a hazardous condition a speed deterrent. It's something that needs to
be dealt with as a hazardous condition. The speeding condition is certainly a problem and one that has to be
dealt with individually from the hazardous condition.
Mr. Archer: I think Mr. Kane is exactly right. This is a Town-wide problem so let's make it a Town-wide
issue.
Mr. Carr: Chief of Police, I forget your name, I wasn't laughing at you, sir. Don't take offense to that. I
was laughing at the machine. I was standing in my front yard at this big radar machine, which is extremely
visible, and you would think that people would see this and go . . . . when they're running 50 mph. I was
sitting in my front yard and watched this machine for many hours. When they crossed the hill they were
running 51 mph. There were 2 police cruisers, 3 police officers, standing at this machine getting ready to
take it down and move it. When they passed the 3 police officers, 2 cruisers, and this radar machine, they
were still running 47, 48 mph. That's what I was laughing at. It did not deter them but 3 mph from the top of
the hill to the machine, the 100 yards with the Officers standing right there. Great idea; personal opinion, it
didn't do much.
Stop Signs – they said you shouldn't use Stop Signs for speed control. It's been done on several other roads
and that was the purpose of them at Middlebury Road, Whispering Hill Road, I was just made aware of the
other day. 3 Stop Signs, the entire area isn't ½ mile long. We're using Stop Signs for speed control. Can
we please use them on Hamilton Avenue? As far as cost effectiveness, I agree we can't put a Police Officer
with a radar machine in every intersection, and we certainly can't put them at school busses when they stop.
That won't work; it's not cost effective. But a simple Stop Sign, and I use a simple $50 Stop Sign, I don't
have any idea what a Stop Sign costs, I don't have any idea what the installation of that Stop Sign would be,
but I personally would pay for the one to go up at Hamilton Avenue near my home, to protect my kids, if
that's what it takes to do it. As far as stopping the speeding, the Stop Sign you say you hit people in the
pocket for the speeding and it slows the down, if they're speeding away from the Stop Sign they get a ticket,
if they're speeding in between them they get a ticket, and then they get a ticket for rolling through the Stop
Sign. Let's hit them 3 times instead of one time. The cost effectiveness of the Stop Sign I think will (Tape
#1, Side A ended- may have missed some).
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 12
Communication between different departments of this Town – absolutely correct, nil to none. When I left the
meeting the other night, speaking with the lady in the back, she gave me a list of names of people I could
contact. One of them was, I forget the gentleman's name, but to her understanding was the Chairman of the
Police Commission. Just had left the Police Station and had left my little notebook there. Thought there was
going to be a safety meeting. The lady there said there was going to be a safety meeting at the High School.
After communicating with the Police and Fire Chief, said that that safety meeting was in progress. We go
there and find Mr. Archer there. Thank you for talking to us. I apologize for the other gentleman, he wasn't
so nice. There wasn't a safety meeting; no communication. I go back to the Police Station after speaking
with you to get my little notebook and I talked to the lady there and asked her why she gave me bad
information. She told me she had just talked to the Fire Station and they said that the meeting was there. So
I read her this (inaudible) group of people, one of them being the Chairman of the Police Commission, she
said no, that's not him. He had been changed, that it was not him. She brought down the list off the wall, the
official list for the head person in the Police Station at that time, dated 2001 with some guy's name on there
who wasn't even in Town anymore, and I said do you mean to tell me that you cannot tell me who the
Chairman of the Police Commission in this Town is right now at this time. She said no sir, I'm sorry, but I
cannot
Mr. Archer: I'm sorry. Who was this? I've lost you at this point.
Mr. Carr: I'm sorry. I'm rambling.
Mr. Archer: No, no, who . . . . .
Mr. Carr: I don't know the ladies name. She was the person behind the plate glass, bulletproof window in
the Police Station the other night. After I spoke with you I went back to the Police Station and the woman
there who greets people who come into our fair Police Station could not even tell me who the Chairman of
the Police Commission was. I said if someone were to call here and ask you to please put them in contact
with the Chairman of the Police Commission, you could not tell them who that person was. She said that
was correct. That's poor. That is poor.
Mr. Archer: I'm not going to debate you on that.
Mr. Carr: Speed bumps – great idea, let's put up speed bumps, take out all the curves, take out all the
humps, natural speed deterrents. Let's flatten the entire area, take out all curves, and let people run 100 mph
and pay money. After paying money to take out the humps, take out the curves, let's spend some more
money and put up some speed bumps. That makes really good sense; personal opinion. Thank you for your
time.
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Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 13
Mr. Archer: Chuck you and I will speak off line about setting a date for that; that's a great idea, Mr. Kane.
Mr. Valenti: Is that going to be a joint meeting of the Town Council and the Police Commission? I mean
seeing as they're theoretically at least the subject matter experts on this. I'm just throwing it out there.
Mr. Archer: Absolutely.
Mr. Valenti: We say that we value the volunteers on boards and commission and these are volunteers
also. I though it would be a good idea.
Mr. Archer: But I don't, I mean I was on a Commission and I don't think we took the Summer off. And
these guys showed up for 2 meetings in a row and they never happened. It's not getting done, and they want
something to get done, so if we have to step in then we step in.
Ms. King: Just a clarification. There's a separate thing. We're going to set up a meeting with the Police
Commission with the people from Hamilton Avenue, and then you had a discussion about whether the
Council would also have some meeting in general about the issue of speeding. Two separate meetings, is that
what you're thinking about?
Mr. Archer: Yes, I'm sorry, I forgot the first one.
Ms. King: I mean the Police Commission which has had experience with dealing with this with roads all
over Town and with people coming and discussing it and making decisions about whether there should be
stop signs, I think (inaudible) ought to meet with these people and talk about it at that level for the problem
on Hamilton Avenue separate from the issues of what's going on (inaudible).
Mr. Archer: Yes, I think they owe these people who expected them to be there a separate Special
Meeting that they set up to meet with these folks, however it is a Town-wide problem and I think that a
larger Public Hearing is in order as Mr. Kane suggested.
Mr. Kane: With all due respect to my colleagues, what I'm saying is let's not debate who should do this
and that, let's take care of it. I mean it's a Town-wide problem. This gentleman is not alone; this speeding is
happening all over Town. The Council has to step in and say hey look, we need to bring attention to this
matter, we need the public aware of this matter and whatever Commission that needs to be there, should be
there, regardless of who it is, because it's a Town-wide problem and we need to get this fixed.
Mr. Valenti: I agree.
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Mr. Carr: I'm with Mr. Kane 100% on that. I hope I speak for the neighborhood of Hamilton Avenue.
We're not looking, personally I'll speak, I'm not looking for a Special Meeting just for Hamilton Avenue. It
would be great. Everybody's got families, vacations, you take Summer off several months in a row, a
meeting of the Safety Committee. I'm not really sure if there's a safety meeting and a commissioner's meeting
and a cancelled meeting, but however many different meetings there are in this Town, if we could have
everybody face to face at a public meeting, all officials in one room, and let's (inaudible) and get it done.
Mr. Kane: That was my suggestion.
Mr. Archer: The best thing that you did was to come out here and air your concerns publicly for the
record, on the camera, in a public forum. This is how, I'm sorry if I get Mr. Smith here, but this is how this is
supposed to work. If someone has an issue they come before the Council in a public forum and address
them. They don't go behind their back and throw rocks. Come forward, tell us what the problem is so we
can get out there and solve it.
Mr. Carr: It would be great for a Special Meeting just for Hamilton, but then you're going to end up with
1,000 meetings because it is a Citywide thing.
Mr. Archer: Well I was just thinking the Commission owes you guys the respect of just getting together.
Mr. Carr: Well I thank you for that. Supposedly they voted not to have those meetings at a meeting that I
was not there. I did not attend that meeting. That was my fault, my fault for not having all my residents from
my area to keep up (inaudible). We dropped it. That's our problem, about a group meeting with everybody
face to face so everybody has every report that I just gave you, that in my opinion you should have had when
it was printed, you being the head guy there, not biting at you, at the (inaudible) I'm biting at, everyone here,
especially you people up here, should have had this report, should have reviewed it, and should have been
ready to discuss it at this meeting, personal opinion. You all don't even have it. Somewhere somebody is
not communicating. A lot of non-communication in this Town amongst the officials.
Mr. Archer: Yes, I've seen it too.
Mr. Carr: Who's dropping the ball (inedible)? Is there one person that is in charge of acknowledging
meetings, problems throughout the Town? Is there one person who is supposed to be like the head person
to let everybody know what's going on? Or can we elect one? (Inaudible).
Mr. Archer: If I had nothing to do but this all day, I guess that's what I would do.
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Mr. Carr: And I know you're all volunteers, and I don't get involved in many things, I try not to, but this is
one that I feel very strongly about and I will be involved in it until someone kicks me out and arrests me, but
it seems like there's no communication in this Town, from the little bit that I'm getting involved in. The left
hand doesn't know what the other one is doing.
Mr. Archer: Absolutely.
Mr. Hebert: When it comes to the boards and commissions, there are some things that are done on the
board and commission level that don't reach us until a final decision is needed for approval to spend money,
receive money, or something of that nature, so there is a lot of business that is done at a board or commission
level until a) someone like yourself comes for public participation and registers a complaint about no action or
lack of action or b) a final approval is needed to receive or spend money. So there's some information that
we're not going to get until a final decision is needed. It's supposed to be handled at the lower level.
Mr. Carr: Okay, I know things have to be delegated. (Inaudible) I didn't want to have to see that every
nail in the yard was picked up when I was doing a roofing job. I had a very low paid guy in charge of that.
But it was my job to go behind him and make sure it was done and at this level . . . .
Mr. Hebert: But you coming up here tonight, telling us there is a problem, so now it's in our court and it will
get addressed.
Mr. Carr: Thank you, but if everything comes to you, to this Board after all of the business has been done,
and it only comes to you as far as spending the money, then there's a lot of information that you're probably
going to miss as to maybe we could have done it this way for less money. You're getting this person's or this
commission's idea of how to do it and not getting the whole picture. I'm wondering if there is a way to get
more people involved in lower levels so that upper levels will have more information.
Mr. Archer: There may be. That is something that we have to give some thought to because . . . .
Mr. Carr: (Inaudible) it seems like the power people aren't getting all of the information until it's time to . . .
we have to make a decision tonight and here's the information we had, but had we had this information prior
to this time, maybe we could have voted a different way or had more information. I don't know how it
works but it seems like a lot of people don't have the information that they should have at the time that they
should have it, and I don't know how to solve it, but I think it would be a great idea if we could figure it out.
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Leo Buonocore, Oakville, CT 06779
Mr. Buonocore: I have the same problem this fellow has. I live on a road in Oakville, which I went to the
Commission last week and complained about, and I live close to the Waterbury line and what's happening in
Oakville, they short cut from Bunker Hill down into Davis Street. You eliminate all of Main Street. All these
little side streets around that lead into Oakville. I watched during the school year busses coming real close to
getting whacked coming out of these side streets into the Main, and so the Police Commission called me
today and they're going to start something on it, so I had the same problem. I have grandchildren getting on
the bus too.
I just came here tonight to, I guess you already realize we lost a hardware store in Oakville, which I'm going
to miss and I'm sure most of the people in Town are going to miss it. I was going to go over a few things, but
Mr. Frigon worked all day on solving some of the problems I was going to ask you about. I thank you
Chuck for beating me to the punch.
Jim Petroccia, 22 Highmeadow Road, Watertown, CT 06795
Mr. Petroccia: I think we all have (inaudible), but now I found out why there's a (inaudible) Middlebury
Road. I just could not understand what that was supposed to be for. I'm here again to address and keep
alive the new Town Hall issue. What I would like to see is the Town Council initiate a Town Hall Committee
to deal with this matter. If we don't address this situation I believe that we may be subject to a daily or a
violation change of non-compliance by the Connecticut Records Administration. They did that to Thomaston
quite a few years ago and they built a new Town Hall or they repaired the one they had.
In 1995 a Special Town Hall Committee made a report on their findings. (Inaudible) reports has been made
for many years, various Councils, and of course you know it's been going on for about 40 years. But here's
what they said – the Town Hall, the Town currently occupies about 10,000 sq. ft. of office space, when
(inaudible) indicate that between 34,000 and 40,000 sq. ft. are necessary to operate efficiently. The same
office space is currently scattered in a minimum of 5 locations making it difficult for the Town administrators,
employees, Townspeople and visitors to conduct Town business effectively. In most cases parking for both
Town employees and walk in traffic is significantly deficient. Handicapped access is unavailable or marginally
compliant. The Town Hall and Town Hall Annex in particular routinely handles Town business with
handicapped or disabled individuals outside of the building. Now that's a report from the Committee. I'm
not sure that (inaudible) would agree with that.
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Now the Town has been sited by the State regarding the inadequate size of the Town Clerk's vault located in
the old Town Hall building. Based on the Town's size and population, the vault should occupy about 1,000
sq. ft., but the one we have there is basically a walk in closet. I think I have a closet at home that is bigger
than the Town vault. The property of the existing Town building does not lend itself to expansion. The
Committee was hard pressed to find a site on Main Street that could accommodate the parking and building
requirements of a new Town Hall, which will require about 5 acres of land, so the Commission eliminated
Main Street as a possible site for a Town Hall. That's the minimum sized piece of land that you need for a
Town Hall to do whatever you have to do with it.
Would you please get something started because you are the only people that can do this, and I think we
should do it, and let the majority decide on a new Town Hall. Thank you.
Mr. Primini: That's been a bone of contention of mine about some of the different committees we're having
kind of doing the same, thing but going in different directions. We're finally having the Facilities
Subcommittee meet with the Public Buildings Committee this Wednesday night. If you want to come to that,
by all means. I remember talking to you and I'd like you to be involved with the Town Hall, because I don't
want to reinvent the wheel. I know you've been involved in this for a long time and I know there's a been a
lot of studies done and that's one of my biggest bones of contention – is that we're always reinventing the
wheel. Just sitting at the Budget Meeting the other night, I could think of 100 ways to save money and we're
going to have to spend some money to start saving some money. The rents we're going to be paying pretty
soon are going to be up to about $67,000 per year just for Depot Square. That's one of the reasons why I
own a home instead of renting one, because my experience is rent always go up, and it's going to keep going
up and up, I guess 2% or 3% over the life of the contract. The other thing was, when I was sitting in that
Budget Meeting, once it hits 10:00 p.m. we're paying custodians time and a half to be here, even at these
meetings. The time is coming where we have to spend some money, but it's going to save us some money in
the long run. There's been gimmicks about renting space, but that's a temporary solution and I totally agree,
something has to be done, so hopefully the first step is in place for putting these two committees together
instead of going in different directions, and like you said, instead of all these different committees, I definitely
would like you to be involved because you were previously. If you'd like to come Wednesday night, we're
going to be discussing that issue at about 7:45 p.m. at the Town Hall Annex.
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Mr. Rinaldi: I was Vice Chairman of that Council, way back when, when that Blue Ribbon Committee
was charged with finding space. I believe you were on that Committee, Jim. We asked them to give us
several options, and what happened at the time, of course this was based on several things too, location,
which was important, and several other things, I don't remember what they were, but there was a list of
things that had to be considered when considering a place. They gave us 3 locations: the number one choice
was where the John Trumbull School is, and the second choice is no longer available, but the third choice is.
I'll tell you later where that is, if you want to consider it. A lot of people are still of the belief that the Town
Hall belongs on Main Street because that's almost impossible the way things are going right now, and I think
there are other spots that are just as good, so maybe that third site should be looked at again.
Ms. King: Just one thing that I wanted to correct, because people are watching this at home, Mr. Petroccia
was reading from a report in 1995 or 1996, our Town Hall and our Town Hall Annex are handicapped
accessible now. Nobody has to be met on the front steps of either of those buildings and hasn't been for a
couple of years now. First we did the Town Hall and then we did the Annex. I'm looking at Chuck, but they
are handicapped accessible as are the other places where our other offices are, Public Works and Planning
and Zoning. Am I correct?
Mr. Frigon: Yes.
Ms. King: I wouldn't want anyone to think that our public buildings are not handicapped accessible
because they are.
Mr. Primini: Well one of our biggest issues, and it's been going on for at least 30 years, is the vault space
that you had mentioned. We've been cited over and over, but for some reason it just keeps getting put on a
shelf. We're supposed to have at least 1,000 sq. ft. which is probably about the size of your average ranch
house and what we have is about 75 sq. ft., which's about the size of your average bathroom. We definitely,
it's something that's been going on for a long time and we have to get on gear and get some attention to it.
Mr. Petroccia: Will that be an open meeting?
Mr. Primini: Yes.
Ms. King: Is it Public Buildings and Facilities Subcommittee meeting together?
Mr. Primini: Yes.
Mr. Archer, Chairman, Closed Public Participation at 9:03 p.m.
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5. Minutes
A. Regular Meeting Minutes – June 17, 2002
MOTION: (Ms. Adams, sec. Mr. Kane) to Approve the Regular Meeting Minutes dated June 17, 2002 as presented.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
B. Special Meeting Minutes – June 13, 2002
MOTION: (Ms. Adams, sec. Mr. Hebert) to Approve the Special Meeting Minutes dated June 13, 2002 as presented.
Discussion: None
In Favor: Ms. Adams, Mr. Archer, Mr. Hebert, Ms. King, Mr. Primini, Mr. Rinaldi, Mr. Valenti, Mr. Wick
Opposed: None
Abstained: Mr. Kane
MOTION CARRIED (8-0-1)
6. Sub-Committee Reports
A. Manager Search Committee
Mr. Archer: Mr. Dick Bennett from Dick Bennett & Associates, obviously the owner, was here on Thursday and Friday and he had a half hour to 45 minute interview with a number of people in Town, mostly department managers. He met with Dr. Ramos, all the members of the Council, I believe, he met with Chuck and Frank, a whole number of people. His firm tries to talk to as many people as possible and try to get a flavor of the Town and get a cross section of opinions in what they should be looking for when they look for candidates for Manager. I was the last person to speak with him on Friday afternoon, and he was fairly well satisfied with the feedback he got so that everyone who took time to meet with him, thank you very much.
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The next step will be what his firm refers to as a challenge statement which is sort of, it's a fairly long prose about their take away from those meetings, interviews with everyone about what the Town is and what the challenges of the Town are. The purpose of that is to make sure they have gotten it right as to the type of person we're looking for and the particular skill set that they're going to have to have to come in and take over here. So that will be the next step. They hope to be delivering that within 10 days, and they'll meet with us to go over that and then they'll move onto the actual candidate search at that point.
B. Facilities Subcommittee
Mr. Primini: We will be meeting jointly with the Public Buildings Committee on Wednesday, and we'll discuss that issue about 7:45 p.m. We are starting to meet with architects and (inaudible) but the key thing is to get the committees together so we're not going in different directions. Believe me I appreciate anyone's help from anywhere. I don't want to be reinventing the wheel. If stuff has gone on in the past I'd be happy to know about it, so we don't go back to some old issues.
C. Finance Subcommittee
Mr. Kane: First of all I'd like to thank everyone who attended the Public Hearing last week. At our original Public Hearing back in April there was about 6 people who showed up and last week there were 60 so tenfold; we increased the number of people so thank you very much. I'd like to also say that the State has finally passed their budget and because of that, well we start our process back in March and we don't have complete figures and we work the best we can. Frank Nardelli, the Finance Director is excellent for that. The State has finally passed their budget. There are funds that we are seeing in advance or in a little bit more than what we first anticipated. There is the Attorney General's opinion that the Anthem Demutualization money can be used for the Town. That's a large savings of over $400,000. This too has come to fruition. The State of Connecticut is using it in their budget figures so we know that it's fair for us to use it. Then of course there's a couple of other savings we found that occurred in insurance and things like that, so I'm happy to say that we do have a new budget proposal, and we will bring it to the full Council later on this Agenda, and I think as I said earlier, it is a good budget, it is a lean budget, it is a fair budget, and I thank everyone who worked very hard on it, because I think this is very good for what the Town needs right now.
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7. Chairman's Report
A. Correspondence
1. Resignation from Denise T. Russ – Planning and Zoning Commission Alternate
Mr. Archer read aloud the following letter for the record:
"July 12, 2002
To Whom it May Concern:
As of July 12, 2002 I am resigning form the Planning and Zoning Commission. I
had a wonderful experience during my time, but I need to step down.
Denise Russ
135 Porter Street
Watertown, CT"
I speak for everyone on the Council in extending our thanks to Denise for her
service on the Commission and also other appointments of public service she's had in
Town.
B. Town Property Auction
Mr. Archer: We have a number of properties that are owned by the Town that we are looking to auction off. The Town isn't using them, we don't anticipate ever using them in the future, and it seemed like a good idea to raise some money by selling those off. So we have parcels of property located on Seneca Road, Lots #8, #10, #11 and #12, as well as a single parcel on Rockdale Avenue. Those were advertised on June 20th for auction and again on June 27th. Sealed bids will be accepted until Friday, July 19th. Bids will be evaluated by the Planning and Zoning Office and a recommendation forwarded to Chuck Frigon's office after that. There are actually many more properties that these, but we're taking them in sort of small manageable hunks so there will be more of them coming after this group is taken care of.
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C. GFOA Award
Mr. Archer: This is the Government Finance Officer's Association and they have a press release here that I'd like to read:
"June 25, 2002
The Certificate of Achievement for Excellence in Financial Reporting has been awarded to the Town of Watertown by the Government Finance Officer's Association of the United States and Canada for its comprehensive annual financial report. The certificate of Achievement is the highest form of recognition in the area of governmental accounting and financial reporting and its attainment represents a significant accomplishment by a government and its management. This award of financial reporting has been awarded to the Finance Department of the Town of Watertown as the Department responsible for preparing the award winning comprehensive financial report. This award will be presented to Frank Nardelli, Jr., Finance Director."
Mr. Nardelli: Thank you very much. We have a tremendous staff, we really do, we have a tremendous staff that's able to compile all of this accounting data so we thank you.
Mr. Archer: And then it concludes by saying:
"The Comprehensive Annual Financial report has been judged by an impartial panel to meet the high standards of the program including demonstrating a constructive "spirit of full disclosure" to clearly communicate its financial story and motivate potential users and user groups to read the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report."
Congratulations again, Frank, that's great.
D. Bunker Hill Disconnect
Mr. Frigon: I'm very pleased to report that the Bunker Hill Disconnect contract has been signed with the City of Waterbury and that project is moving forward.
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E. Sand/Salt Storage Status
Mr. Archer: At the last (Tape #1, Side B ended – may have missed some) metal frames that we purchased. Ultimately if I'm correct, Chuck, this was supposed to be sort of a shed covering for salt and sand that is used during the Winter. I guess these items have been sitting there and nothing is being constructed. The note I have here from Chuck is the goal to erect this framework prior to the year end's construction season, which of course would be in time for the Fall/Winter snow season. It is in the plan. If you don't see any movement there yet it's just something that is coming up.
F. Other
Mr. Archer: We seem to be racking up awards. First Polk School gets an award, then our Finance Director gets an award. We have the Lion's Club who has come forward and offered to help us out by re-engineering and reconstructing one of the ball fields in Town. This is all great stuff and this is a great Town, despite what spokespeople would tell you.
A citizen in the form of letters to the paper has suggested that perhaps we should impose a 2 year moratorium on new residential construction and I have here, this is an Agenda for the Planning and Zoning Commission for Wednesday night. This is in one Public Hearing:
Item B is considering a 20 lot subdivision
Item C is considering a 9 lot residential subdivision
Item D is an 18 lot
Item E is another 18 lot
Ms. Adams: That's a total of 65.
Mr. Archer: This is one Public Hearing. So the idea on its face of having a 2 year moratorium on residential construction seems to have some merit, to give us some time to take a breath and say, okay, where are we going. So I inquired to our Town Attorney, Atty. McHugh as to the legality of doing something like that. I also spoke to Mary Barton. The case is that no, it is not legal to do that. The only instance in which you could impose a moratorium would be a 90 day moratorium and you have to go into it with a stated purpose of doing a study in the interest of making recommendations to P & Z to change their regulations to try and slow residential construction. I just wanted to put that issue to bed since it has come up numerous times in the local press.
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I wanted to echo Rob's sentiments about the Public Hearing. It was great to have 60 people come out. A lot of people came up and spoke. We had a couple of good ideas come out of it. It's important that the public is heard for us to do our job properly and it was great to see people come out for that.
Ms. Adams: I just know that yesterday afternoon in Town we had one of our local businessman basically lost everything and I was wondering if Chuck could give an update.
Mr. Frigon: The exact cause of the fire at Connecticut Hardware has not yet been made public. I don't know that they've exactly determined it, but it does look right now that it was caused by the substation, and CL&P was very involved today with the State of Connecticut and our local Fire Marshall in determining the cause.
As far as his business goes, it is a total loss. Ken is looking at rebuilding, he's looking forward to rebuilding. We did walk him through the processes today of Planning and Zoning. He does have an opinion from Planning and Zoning that he can rebuild on the footprint that he's on, so that's a good thing. He's looking forward toward rebuilding.
Last night I was extremely impressed at the community involvement in assisting in that fire. There were a number of local businesses, many personal friends of his. Certainly the Watertown Fire Department did a tremendous job, they went above and beyond the call of duty. Together they worked to secure any inventory that was salvageable. They took it off site and were able to secure the remainder of the site. The State D.E.P. did a tremendous job along with our Fire Department in securing any potential hazardous runoff. Our Fire Department, as I said, went above and beyond the call of duty, worked well with the situation, kept the situation in hand, and together with the community and the Town offices, I'm happy to report tonight that he is looking forward to rebuilding and doing that in a very short time.
Mr. Archer: There was actually a photo in the paper today about neighbors hauling stuff out of there and I mean it's just amazing.
Mr. Frigon: There was tremendous community involvement, as well as other businesses in Town that showed up to offer assistance.
Mr. Archer: Who says we don't have a good Town.
Mr. Frigon: We truly do.
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Ms. King: The Main Street Committee, as I understand at this point is dormant. During the 2 years that I worked on the Main Street Committee during the last Council, we spent a long time trying to get crossing things appropriately on Main Street with the signs that told people to stop when people are stopping in the crossing because like everything else, people don't stop for people in the crossing. The signs are missing again. They're dead, I don't know why. Can we find out how we can get the signs replaced, please?
Mr. Frigon: Its my understanding that we do have the signs. One of the signs was damaged. As it turned out the placing of those signs was a costly endeavor for the Town. We don't have the personnel on weekends to put it out and we don't have the personnel in the evenings to take them back in, unless the Police Department is available to do that. Coupled with that we've had several accidents. The last insurance claim against the Town was for a 7 vehicle endeavor with those signs, so it became a problem because of the congestion on Main Street and people hitting them. We've had to replace the sign a number of times. Yes, they are still there, but we don't have the, they just haven't been going out, honestly, after that last 7 car accident.
Ms. King: People don't stop when people are in the crosswalk, it's as simple as that. We've been through this before. Originally when we talked about doing this we had at least one business person who was willing to put out the signs and we didn't use that person. I don't know what the situation is, but I think we have to make this effort again. I think it's ridiculous not to do it. I understand the issue. I also understand that during the 7 car accident, that people were aiming for the signs, it was a game or whatever. Let's see if we can knock down the signs and turn them upside down so that they can strike cars. Lots of towns have these signs. Some of them have the kind that can be knocked down and pop up again.
Mr. Frigon: We have those as well.
Ms. King: We have different ones, I know, but I don't want to give up on it. That's my concern – they've just disappeared and that's not the answer either.
Mr. Archer: Did the sign cause the 7 car pileup?
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Mr. Frigon: I certainly can't blame the driver. The sign was in the road and one driver knocked it over into another vehicle, which in turn knocked it back into another as people were going through Town. This was one incident, and I'm not inherently against those signs, I'm not at all. I'm certainly all for them. I travel Main Street every day and you're absolutely correct, people do not stop for pedestrians in the cross walk and that's a very sad statement. Quite frankly I'm on Main Street often enough that people don't stop when the signs are out, but be that as it may, yes I will, if that's the direction you want to go put the signs out, but I would like to be a little more creative and involve some local businesses in getting those signs out because it was an extremely costly endeavor to do that with Town employees on weekends.
Ms. King: And that was not conveyed to us on the Council, that it was a costly endeavor, I will tell you that.
Mr. Frigon: Certainly yes, we can work on more creative ways on getting that accomplished.
8. Action Items
A. Consider Appointments to Boards and Commission
The terms of various boards and commissions have expired or are expiring. Appointments must be made to fill these vacancies.
MOTION: (Ms. King, sec. Mr. Rinaldi) to appoint George Velezis, 118 Cannon Ride Drive, Watertown, CT, to the Planning and Zoning Commission, as an Alternate, replacing Denise Russ, Term to Expire January, 2006.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
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B. Consider Acceptance of Report of Playing Field Inventory, Recommended Use and Allocation as Presented by the Parks and Recreation Commission
The Parks and Recreation Commission was charged with evaluating all playing fields within Watertown.
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to accept the report of playing field inventory, recommended use and allocation as presented by the Parks and Recreation Commission.
Discussion: Ms. King: Do we have it?
Mr. Frigon: Mr. Russo is here to present it.
Ronald Russo, Chairman, Parks and Recreation Commission
Mr. Russo: The Parks and Recreation Commission was charged with surveying and looking at the athletic fields in the community. The Subcommittee, Sal LaRosa, Gerry Langlais, and Gary Lafferty did a great job. They actually walked everything. I'm not going to bore you with everything. On Page 5 of the report you have . . . .
Mr. Archer: We don't have that report.
Mr. Russo: We will give you this – they reported on every field and everything they thought needs to be accomplished, but I do want to read the bottom. The subcommittee was impressed overall with the conditions of the field and comment the Parks Maintenance Department, the Board of Education Maintenance Department and the Public Works Department for strides and efforts they have made this year. The Parks and Recreation Commission was pleased to get this report from the Subcommittee. Obviously the Town is making progress and it's nice to have some positive feedback and input, I'm sure.
We have 4 recommendations, 2 of which really require no Town Council action, but they're more informational:
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1. That the Recreation Director continue to assign fields according to the Commission policy which is based on need and (inaudible) and residency.
That's more informational because the Subcommittee wanted to reinforce that policy and we pass it along to the Council because we wanted you to know that we do have a policy that does require residency enrollment. There are some times, for instance Veteran's, wherever we have properties that were funded in part by State monies, where we do have to entertain outside groups and let them the use facilities, I think you're aware of that sort of thing, but we want the, (inaudible) when you get it.
2. That the Town of Watertown, in concert with the Board of Education, continue efforts to improve and maintain all of the athletic fields as an operating expense, not just on an emergency basis.
This, I think, is the key to this. You know how much money the Town has spent recently on Deland Field and how much work, as I previously mentioned, that the various crews have done to upgrade, they're not perfect, but they have upgraded, and the key is to keep them there and not let them slip back, because as I've heard someone mention tonight on another issue, what happens is you end up paying more later. And this is, of course, what happened to Deland Field which cost us $250,000 for something that if we had been spending all along, it's nobody's fault, it's just a matter of what funds are available in any one given year for any one given purpose, as we well know.
3. This is really one that came to us after we started our investigation, not because of it, it just happened to come in at the same time.
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The Lion's Club has offered to take one of the fields up at Veteran's, the first one as you go in, because it's alone, it's separate, it's not connected with any other field, and fund some improvement in the fencing, the backstop, the benches, the protective fencing, and also a security fence all the way around. They will also, although our report says skinning the infield, they really haven't offered to do that, Harry is going to get stuck with that job, but they will help, they will provide men and help to turn that field into a first class softball field. It can then become a permanent home for our various softball leagues in Town, which are mostly girls, although if a boy wanted to play softball you can't keep them out of the program. The Lion's Club made it quite clear that they will do this and they expect it to be a softball field, however, they did not want it to be exclusive as far as if it's not being used other people couldn't use it, the volleyball guys or whoever wants to do something there. It's a very generous offer.
The recommendation actually reads that the Town of Watertown accept the offer of the Watertown Lion's Club to skin Veterans Field #1 and design it specifically for softball, provided the Girl's Rapid Oakville Watertown Softball, G.R.O.W.S, which is the girls organization, relinquish one of their other permits to accommodate the group that will thus be displaced. This will of course take action on the part of the Council to accept this offer. We recommend it. I understand from Lisa Carew, our Recreation Director, that if the fence they put up is a safety fence around the perimeter, obviously to keep balls from going out into the road there, if it's 4 feet or less, I guess we can do that without going to Planning and Zoning, however it is our recommendation that every step we take we do check with Planning and Zoning to make sure that we are doing things properly in accordance with the overall plan for that park. We don't want to start anything unless we know where we're supposed to be.
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Also in the report you will notice that not only did the Lion's Club say they did not want to use the word exclusive, the Subcommittee specifically was concerned with that word because again that is a facility that was paid for in part, and designed in part with State funds. So we're concerned about that. We don't think it would be a problem. It would be the Commission's intention when the work is completed to give the girls' program the first and primary permits so they can use it practically for all or most of their activities, and then whatever time is left, again I know there is a bunch of guys that go in there and set up a volleyball net on the weekends and play a little volleyball or whatever. That will require Council action and we recommend it.
4. This has been kicking around for about 4 or 5 years, the lease with the Watertown/Oakville Little League, Inc. We don't know why it's been to the Council and back to us and to the Council and back to us.
That our lease with the Watertown/Oakville Little League for Mosgrove Field be renewed and extended.
There is documentation here as far as where they came to that conclusion. This probably is the only piece of land in Town which does not fall under Union jurisdiction and is no cost to the Town whatsoever because the Town has no obligation there for anything, grass cutting, buildings, insurance, nothing. So the Subcommittee felt we were kind of getting a deal here, so if we start fooling around with that and eventually come under our jurisdiction, then we would have to fund it.
So those are the 4 recommendations. Recommendation #3 the Lion's Club Offer, and #4, the Renewal of the Lease, will take Council action. If you have any question, I'd be happy to answer them, or a member of the Subcommittee.
Mr. Wick: Are we expected to vote on this issue tonight?
Mr. Russo: Not if you don't want to.
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Mr. Wick; The reason I ask is because we don't have the report to read through first, and when you say renew the lease, one question that comes to my mind, is that going to cost us anything?
Mr. Russo: It costs you nothing. The lease actually has expired like 5 years ago. It dates back to 1951 and the whole key of renewing it was it does cost us nothing. This is a very unique thing the way it was donated and used and (inaudible). Under the terms of the lease, even though it has expired, the local organization is responsible for the buildings, repair, maintenance, construction, insurance, fire, theft, grass cutting; the Town has zero obligation. All of the fencing, everything. This is not an emergency thing. I mean the lease expired 5 years ago. It's just a matter of whether it's even necessary at this stage, I don't know, but I guess officially we should have something written in the Town Hall. But certainly you're not expected to act tonight, especially on the lease, because it's been hanging out there for awhile.
Ms. King: I note that we have on our Agenda another item about the Lion's Club specifically so it looks to me that we could perhaps act on the Lion's Club thing separately tonight and maybe just Table this other until we get the full report to read, cause I'd like to read it too.
Mr. Russo: This was forwarded Friday, I just assumed, cause the Park and Rec met last Thursday and the Commission unanimously accepted the report of the Subcommittee Thursday, and I know Lisa Carew forwarded this to you Friday. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you didn't have it in front of you. Do you have a copy at least?
Mr. Frigon: I haven't seen it yet, but I'm certain if Lisa forwarded it I will be receiving it through the interdepartmental mail.
Mr. Russo: The Lion's Club portion is complete with maps. Here, let me give you this one.
MOTION: (Ms. Adams, sec. Mr. Hebert) to Table.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
ORIGINAL MOTION WAS NEVER VOTED ON
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Mr. Russo: If we do the Lion's Club thing, I think they'd like to do it in the Fall, if that's your intention.
C. Consider Acceptance of Field Enhancements as Offered by the Watertown Lion's Club
The Watertown Lion's Club wishes to offer the Town enhancements to one of our fields.
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Ms. Adams) to accept the generous donation offered by the Watertown Lion's Club for field enhancement at Veteran's Memorial Park and that a letter be sent to the Lion's Club expressing the Town's gratitude.
Discussion: Chris Lampier, President, Lion's Club
Mr. Lampier: I have one more map we can pass around. What we went ahead and proposed was Field #1 up at Veteran's Field right now is currently nothing more than a grass field with some cutouts where the bases are. It's used for T-Ball. Actually I had this idea quite awhile ago and I brought it up before the Club, to renovate this field, by putting a fence around the field. There is a need in Town for a venue for girl's softball. There's been one for some time; they've currently been using hardball fields, so we came up with the idea of putting a fence around this, making it a stadium type thing. This fence also would act as a security item because the balls, with girl's that size, could go into the driveway out there. So we got some prices on it.
First of all I brought it before our Board of Directors, which they approved of the plan, and then before the membership. What you have in front of you, what we're proposing to do is right now there's a backstop that Central Fence had put in last year along with bench fencing, for protective fencing for the benches. We're proposing continuing the fence from the bench fences out to a point 200 feet at the foul poles, bellied around to 220 feet, give or take a few feet, this is not exact, I'm not a designer, but this is what I proposed to the fence company, then to 220 feet to center field. It's a field that when skinned can be used from the ages of 5, or whenever they start playing softball, right up and through and including college if any college team ever wanted to use the field. The fence dimensions are minimum for college, but more than adequate for high school also, so it's something that's going to serve the female softball players in Town from the time they start to play until the time they probably finish up, so you get more bang for the buck as far as that goes.
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Our proposal includes the fencing, renovating the benches that are there, putting better benches in, not necessarily better benches but longer benches, an overhang on the backstop because right now the backstop is a straight backstop and because it's wooded around there, part of the bid includes an overhang to come up to catch balls from going over, and also we had proposed putting in a manual, a Fenway Park style scoreboard out in the outfield, just something manual if some kid wanted to hang the score up on the scoreboard they could go out and hand a number upon the scoreboard. I've since been approached by an individual in Town that has offered an electronic scoreboard for this Field if it ever gets completed. I'd like to put that on the back burner for now because it involves running electricity there; it would be nice down the road if this could happen, but it's not something we have the finances to do at this time.
We also offered our help in the labor department. There were a number of trees that overhang the foul lines as it sits right now. Any labor that we could help out with in the skinning of the infield we'd be more than happy to help out, providing the Unions allow us to come in and help out. Hopefully everybody will want to work together and we can do that. We didn't run into any problems when we built the pavilion at Veteran's so I hope this won't be the case.
There will, unlike what Mr. Cordon stated earlier, it isn't something that is going to be cost-free to the Town. There are going to be some expenses, I'm sure for materials that the Town is going to be looking at, such as clay for the field. I'm not exactly sure, I talked to Harry a little while ago and he had a figure of what it was going to cost for some clay. If you care to talk to him about it that's fine, but it's not something right now that we had figured on when I went before the Club, but the fencing, I think there's ways with the organizations that are out there and stuff like that and possibility if we can get a budget passed in Town that maybe with some of your land that you're selling off you an put aside for some dirt.
We'd like you to consider this; it's something we'd like to do. We look at it as going into the park, as I was quoted in the paper as saying we put another jewel in the crown, and I really do feel that Veteran's is the crown jewel we have in this Town, and it's something we can build for the youth that are left, and for many more years it will be something nice to look at when you first go into the park, a nice ball field there with kids playing on it and we'd like you to consider it favorably. Any questions? It will be a 4 foot chain link fence. The company that we had the lowest bid on is the same company that just finished with Deland Field, Central Fence.
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Mr. Wick: Just a question about the out of pocket expenses that the Town will be expected to pick up - do you have a ball park figure for what that total would be?
Harry Ward, Parks Director, Town of Watertown
Mr. Ward: I don't have a lot of figures on this. I was just given it Thursday night. Based on the skin infield that they're proposing, the cost for the clay, at a 6 inch depth, would be $4,650. That's the only cost that I've come up with to date. I'm not opposed to this idea; I think it's great. I think we're going to get a lot of things out of it that we could gain from, but we would probably at least $4,000 in clay, and also engineering to get the pitch of the field correct so the water will runoff, which I'll have to have the Engineering Department determine, which shouldn't be a big deal.
Ms. King: You don't have to put anything below the clay, like gravel or anything?
Mr. Ward: No, we just go down to the existing subsoil, rake it out, get all the surface rocks out, adjust, install the clay. Because of the depth it's not a problem. If you try to just put down 2 inches of clay, of course we'll pull every rock in that field up and it will be like some of the other fields that we have where the clay layer isn't thick enough, which is a problem.
Ms. Adams: Again, we see our civic organization coming, planning a project (Tape #2, Side A ended – may have misses some), seeing a problem and doing something about it. Thank you.
Mr. Rinaldi: I'm a Red Sox fan, so you mentioned the Red Sox scoreboard, and we hope too, some day, to have electricity out there.
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
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D. Consider An Appropriation for Soccer Field II at Veteran's Memorial Park
Soccer Field II at Veteran's Memorial Park is currently being reconstructed. The Parks Director is requesting additional funds to complete an irrigation system for the field.
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Ms. Adams) that the Resolution authorizing the appropriation for an irrigation system be approved for Soccer Field #2 at Veteran's Memorial Park.
Discussion: Mr. Adams: Is this just for the irrigation system, cause there's other attachments here?
Mr. Ward: We had a base bid cost of $81,765 for the installation of the Soccer Field and an additional $18,495 for the irrigation system. That brought the project to $100,260 for the completion of the leveling of the field and installation of the seeding and all that, and irrigation system. Unfortunately after engineering and surveying costs we only have $95,015 in the line item. So I'm requesting and appropriation of funds for an amount not to exceed $5,245 so that we can put the irrigation system in, which is essential to the well being of the new field.
At last Thursday night's Commission meeting I brought up all the add ons that were included in the bid to make the field a usable, appropriate soccer field the way it should be built, to textbook spec, and one of those items was drainage installation. That unfortunately was an additional $20,764. At the time of the Commission meeting we were not aware that this would have to go to a Referendum vote, and it would take therefore, if you add it to the $5,245, we did not think it would take this long to get completed, so what I'm going to ask the Council to do is just appropriate the $5,245, if you can, and we'll put off the drainage system until a later date, until we can actually even determine if areas of the field need drainage. Some of the field areas may not. And that's the way I feel at this time, cause we have to move the project along because the contract is already at the sub grade as we speak, so he's leveling now to put the root (inaudible) is in and if I were to delay this, to have a public vote, we will miss our target date for seeding and this could put the project off to next Spring and really back things up badly, so I would request that we just appropriate the $5,000 and go from there.
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Mr. Archer: Maybe I'm slow. I'm missing the math here.
Ms. King: All they need is $5,000 more.
Many people talking at once (inaudible).
Mr. Wick: What would happen if we forget about the irrigation system completely?
Mr. Ward: I am afraid if you forget about the irrigation system right now, with the soil mixture we're using, you'll have no grass on the field. It's a high sand mix that is made to resist compaction. It does drain very well, as you can imagine. It's called a high sand mix, so it's almost comprised of 90% sand and that helps with drainage so that we can get out there and play on the field almost immediately after a rainfall. That's the way the new fields are designed today. So without the irrigation system, I'd have to go back and redo the soil mix to like something similar to what was there already so that it will hold more moisture in it, but then therefore, when you have a heavy rain, they wont be able to play, and when they do play the field will turn to mud and the cleats will tear it up quicker. That's the theory behind the sand mix. It makes it a tighter root system because the roots can go down deeper into the sand and it resists compaction and it drains well, so there's no subsurface water running around. But yes, the irrigation system is essential to this design.
Ms. Adams: Do we have any other fields that are using this?
Mr. Ward: Deland Field's infields have this type of a mixture too. That's the way they were designed.
Ms. Adams: And they also have irrigation?
Mr. Ward: Yes, they need irrigation. If the irrigation is off for just a couple of days, they'll start to yellow.
Mr. Hebert: The same thing with the soccer field, correct?
Mr. Ward: Correct.
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Mr. Wick: It would be easier to swallow the irrigation system idea if we could believe that it really would reduce the total cost of maintenance in years to come. Is that a realistic expectation?
Mr. Ward: Yes, because if you don't have the water there the grass is going to die and you'll be constantly reseeding it. You won't have a soccer field if you don't have water here. That's the way it's designed.
Mr. Archer: It will be a beach.
Mr. Ward: Yea, basically, unfortunately. If it's any consolation, the timing is awful, I know, but the other problem is because the budget year ended, if I had time I could have transferred these funds right out of my operating budget. I turned back at least $20,000 plus to the General Fund from my operating budget. Frank could verify that, but because of the time constraint and the way it came down, we have to ask for an appropriation, and I just couldn't do a transfer, which would have been the simple way out. But because of the timing we have to ask for an appropriation.
Ms King: I just want to advocate for this project moving forward. I was delighted when we were able to put it in the budget last year. As I told Harry, my kids played up there on what we called the turtle field, which you know, you stand in one goal and you couldn't see the kid in the other goal, which was to our advantage because our kids knew how to do it, but it was also incredibly wet and not a good field, and I'm just delighted to see this moving forward and hopefully be playable.
MOTION PASSED UNANINOUSLY
E. Consider an Appropriation for Final Payment of Water Mains per the Developer's Agreement for Bona Vista Subdivision
Per an agreement with the Developer of Bona Vista Subdivision, the Developer was to be reimbursed for materials to install a ductile iron pipe for water mains. This Appropriation will fund the reimbursement.
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RESOLUTION
WHEREAS, per an Agreement with the Developer of Bona Vista Subdivision, the Developer was to be reimbursed for materials and rock removal to install a ductile iron pipe for water mains.
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Council appropriates $12,000 from the Water Extension Fund Balance for reimbursement for a water main extension for Bona Vista Subdivision.
Dated at Watertown, Connecticut this 15th day of July, 2002.
____________________
Lee Archer, Chairman
Watertown Town Council
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) that the Resolution authorizing the appropriation from the Water Main Extension for reimbursement to the developer of Bona Vista Subdivision for water main be approved for the amount of $12,000.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
F. Consider Authorizing the Execution of the Town Manager Search Consultant Contract with Bennett Associates
The Town Council authorized the hiring of Bennett Associates to conduct a Town Manager Search. The Interim Town Manager will execute the contract upon Town Council approval.
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) that Charles Frigon, Interim Town Manager, be hereby authorized to execute on behalf of the Town of Watertown Town Council an agreement with Bennett Associates for the purpose of a Town Manager search.
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Discussion: Ms. Adams: When I was talking with him last week we discussed many things, of course, but one thing that bothered me was that we came off a very successful Superintendent search, and one of the things that were done was to get input for the public, what they think, what they feel, what they wanted to see, in that case a Superintendent, and we asked Dick Bennett if this was part of the plan. He told me no, and I was a little surprised by that because it was so successful in bringing the Superintendent that the public felt that they had input, they were listened to, and in turn took ownership of the project (inaudible). I did ask him, well gee, he said it wasn't part of the agreement. I asked him how much it would cost to make it part of the agreement, to take the time to talk with people, and he kind of just, I guess, that it really wasn't an option, and I just was wondering if we could make that an option, to get the public's input before we move forward.
Mr. Archer: I hate to drag the process out anymore. Probably I mean, everybody thinks of things as we go I guess, but in his original discussions about how they go about working through this process, that was never an issue at that time when we were interviewing these people.
Ms. King: I think Mr. Bennett did interview a number of people beyond the Council when he was here in Town, and I think there was a difference between this search and the Superintendent's search because of the fact that you need to have parent involvement with a superintendent search. But I would agree with you, Lee, that we're already so far, it seems to be taking so long, that anything that would draw this process out would be difficult.
Mr. Archer: Yea, I don't know that the Manager has the same interaction, not that Chuck, sorry, not that you don't have interaction with the public, but I don't think it's the same type, and then whether, you know whatever your feelings on the previous superintendent, there was some volatility around that and having the public have input on the new superintendent was probably useful.
Ms. Adams: I just think that by having the public given the opportunity to put forward what they wanted to see, I just think it's better all around for the public to feel that we're listening to them when it comes to this, cause it's their Town Manager too. My opinion.
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Mr. Rinaldi: If the first budget hearing we got 6 people and 60 at the second, if we have a hearing for the Town Manager, we'll be lucky if we get 10 people, #1. #2, I think that I believe that we are elected officials; the people of this Town elected us and I think it's our responsibility to interview and ultimately hire a Town Manager cause he's going to be working for us. I think it's a different situation. I think the Superintendent, as you said before, he works a lot closer with parents and students, and the Town Manager I really don't think does. Just my opinion.
Mr. Wick: I've just got to say that after giving this issue probably more thought than almost any other issue that's come before this group, I need to repeat what I said to this Council at a previous meeting, that I don't believe this process is needed at this time. I agree with what Paul said about the fact that we were elected to do a job, and probably my definition of what that means is that we were elected to use our judgment, and my judgment tells me that we don't need to spend the money and dilute our own efforts, keeping in mind that time is precious with this project at this time.
I said before and it's no secret, that I believe that the incumbent interim Town Manager is well qualified to do the job that we need to do. I believe the last time I made a comment along these lines Jean pointed out that it's important to go through the process so we can what's out there. And I thought about that for awhile, after that meeting, and I said well if there is something out there that might be better for us it would be perhaps somebody with a silver bullet, and I believe that our biggest problem is not anything that we as a Council do, I don't believe our biggest problem is anything that the management and the administration in this Town does or doesn't do, I believe the biggest problem we have is getting the voters to authorize an adequate budget to do the things that need to be done in Town. For many years we've had no choice but to postpone things to the point where projects become emergencies and the timing is then taken out of our control. I don't think the Council can change that, I don't think the Town Manager can change that. I think the only thing that can change that is a change in attitude in Town that supports better budgets for this Town. I don't think it's fair to expect the Town Manager to make that happen. I think that's our job.
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I believe the answer to our problem, if it is a problem, is right before us and I urge us to consider the possibility that we are being myoptic, and I ask us to consider the possibility that we should not be myoptic and that we should go with the obvious, and I would vote against this Motion because I don't believe it's necessary at this time.
Ms. King: We have already authorized the hiring of Mr. Bennett, have we not? This is just going forth with the contract. Didn't we have a previous vote on this?
Mr. Archer: Correct, yes.
Ms. King: Yes, thank you.
In Favor: Mr. Archer, Mr. Hebert, Mr. Kane, Ms. King, Mr. Primini, Mr. Rinaldi, Mr. Valenti
Opposed: Ms. Adams, Mr. Wick
Abstained: None
MOTION CARRIED (7-2-0)
G. Consider Authorizing the Participation in the Mutual Financing of CCM's Amicus Curiae Intervention (Street Lights)
The Connecticut Conference of Municipalities, based on careful evaluation, will occasionally encourage member municipalities to participate in amicus curiae intervention. CCM is recommending that the Town support these issues.
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) that the Council hereby authorize the Mutual Financing of the Intervention in the Proceedings Involving the DPUC and Rate Setting for the Municipal Purchase of Street Lights.
Discussion: Mr. Archer: I think that was handed out this evening.
Mr. Wick: Do we have a plan for buying some street lights where this $900 contribution will be replaced quickly?
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Mr. Frigon: It's my understanding that there's only one community in Connecticut right now that is pursuing the purchase of street lights. It does look as though it will be an opportunity for every municipality to purchase street lights at a considerable savings, so yes, we would certainly pursue that.
Mr. Archer: For those who may not know, currently the street lights that light all of the intersections in Town are owned by CL&P and we lease them on a regular basis.
Ms. King: Not just at intersections.
Mr. Archer: Street lights in general. We lease those year after year after year after year from CL&P, and the Connecticut Conference of Municipalities has been working toward making it possible for towns to actually purchase them from CL&P and then do the maintenance on them themselves, and the projections are for a huge savings of 15% to 30% of the cost of leasing those year after year.
Ms. Adams: Is it just the lights, or the wooden poles?
Mr. Frigon: Just the lights.
Mr. Archer: The wooden poles are . . . . right.
Ms. Adams: CL&P or SNET (inaudible) just the lights.
Mr. Frigon: We would just maintain the lights and the hardware (inaudible).
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
H. Consider Budget for Fiscal Year 2002-2003 Budget
Prior to setting the Ballot for the Referendum, the Town Council will formally approve a budget to be sent to Referendum.
MOTION: (Mr. Kane, sec. Mr. Hebert) to approve the following budgets to be sent to Referendum on July 30, 2002 as previously scheduled:
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Town General Fund $18,639,081
School General Fund $27,695,895
General Fund Total $46,334,976
Town Road Aid $ 272,794
Water Operations $ 1,259,651
Water Capital $ 48,500
Water Extension $ 70,000
Sewer Operations $ 2,128,875
Sewer Capital $ 36,500
Sewer Extension $ 182,300
Water & Sewer Debt $ 172,034
Crestbrook Golf Operations $ 893,156
Crestbrook Improvement Trust $ 64,000
Local Capital Improvement $ 161,415
Discussion: Ms. Adams: This will bring us down to . . . .
Mr. Kane: .5. That would encompass a .5 mill increase. ½ a mill.
Mr. Valenti: I'm going to vote no today, and not out of disrespect for the work that the Committee did, but basically the same reason that I did the last time. You see in each Town in the surrounding communities budgets going out to Referendum and budgets going down to defeat. You see each year the tax burden on the local property owner going up and up and up, and I think it's time the communities lobby effectively to reform the property tax in this State and take the onus off of the Towns, especially the people who can least afford it, senior citizens, those on fixed incomes, low wage earners. It's funny, every year, and this is going to be a political year, too, so we'll hear it all come November, this party taxes and spends, this party doesn't care about the poor; we know that neither is true. The last two proposals that this Council has put forward have been on the measure order above what the last Council did, and yet I think it was appropriate for the needs of the Town and I have no quarrel with it, but I do have a quarrel with the way the State does not meet their obligation to us and makes us carry the burden. For that reason I'm voting no.
Mr. Vicenzi: That sounds like a campaign speech.
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Mr. Valenti: No, no, no.
Mr. Archer: Just a clarification – are you advocating a zero mill rate increase?
Mr. Valenti: No. It's more of a protest vote. I'm very respectful of what Mr. Kane did, what the whole Finance Committee did, I just don't think that they should be put in the position of being the heavies each and every year. Whether it's your party or my party, it shouldn't be the onus of the local (inaudible) trying to do best for the Town to be the heavies so that people in Hartford can say we cut your taxes. Really? No, you didn't. One man's opinion.
Mr. Kane: To rebut that if you will, he may have some validity to his argument, but this is not neither the time or the place for that because this is what we have, this is the process we have in place, and you're right, we did work very hard on this budget and this is something that the full Council should take on an endeavor and support, so I will disagree with you there that I think that everyone on this Council should support this budget because it is a good budget, it's a fair budget, and this is the process we have in place right now. Until maybe you come up with something different, this is what we need to follow, and I think you're right, we did work very hard and I am in favor of this budget and I think it's very fair.
Mr. Hebert: This is the process, this is what we were elected to do, so we're here to make the decisions and this is one of them, and the whole Council should be behind this.
Mr. Wick: Paul, I share your concern with the way tax money is collected, and going through this process more actively this time than I did in the previous Council, I started to be concerned about the folly of taxing non-productive assets, and that's really what a property tax does when you're dealing with residential property, that's essentially a non-productive asset. The revenue that's needed to pay the tax comes from something else and I can understand the problems associated with it, and I think we need to find a way to change the way municipal budgets are funded. It's not going to happen overnight, and the way to do it is to work together to attack the problem at its cause and not do something that's similar to being insulted by Paul and then hitting Jean on the head for it, as an analogy.
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Ms. King: I am going to support this budget, however, I am going to be out there being vocal along with Paul over the issue of the property tax later on during this year. I'm particularly sensitive to the fact that we heard again and again from the Board of Education about the fact that our High School simply is not adequately staffed at this point to meet the kids that we have in the High School. We've done some really terrific jobs with building a new school, John Trumbull, for the younger kids. It's time that we had the staff for the High School kids and I'm pleased that we are able to put forth a budget that at this point allows the Board of Education to fill those positions that they need.
Mr. Valenti: Actually I've changed my mind. Sitting here listening to some of the counsel of my colleagues on the other side, you're right, I can express my reservation with the system in place but still be respectful of the work that this Council did. I will vote in support of this budget. I think it's a heinous road that's got us here, but that's not the issue that faces this Council, and I thank you for enlightening me in the error of my way in that small regard. I was wrong.
Ms. MaryAnn Rosa (Board of Education – in audience) Could you please tell us the amount of the cut?
Ms. Adams: There is no cut.
Mr. Archer: That's actually a very good point of clarification is that we did not reduce expenditures at all. The savings came from . . . we had a combination of things: It's taken awhile to get enough legal opinions behind it, but it appears that the monies we receive from selling the stock from the Anthem Demutualization totals $413,175. Also we had some savings in Workers' Compensation of $36,000. The insurance bid came out considerably less than what we anticipated back when we were doing the budget, and that was $72,000, and now we do know the figures of the State aid that we're going to receive, so between the combination of these items we were able to reduce the mill rate increase to .5 without making any changes to the expenditures that we approved in the original budget that we went to Referendum with. Also we are taking a small portion of the General Fund, $105,414, so as not to reduce the expenditures.
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Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 46
Ms. King: It's actually $150,000 because we added the $105,000 to the $50,000, so there's $155,000 more being taken from the Fund Balance.
In Favor: Ms. Adams, Mr. Archer, Mr. Hebert, Mr. Kane, Ms. King, Mr. Primini, Mr. Valenti, Mr. Wick
Opposed: Mr. Rinaldi
Abstained: None
MOTION CARRIED (8-1-0)
I. Discussion Setting Ballot for Fiscal Year 2002-2003 Budget
Town Council approval is required for the exact wording for the ballot for the Referendum on the Budget.
MOTION: (Mr. Kane, sec. Mr. Hebert) that the budget question be placed on the voting machines as follows:
1. Shall the fiscal year 2002/2003 School General Fund Budget be approved in the amount of $27,695,895?
2. Shall the fiscal year 2002/2003 Town General Fund Budget be approved in the amount of $18,639,081?
3. Shall the following fiscal year 2002/2003 Budgets be approved in the amounts of:
Town Road Aid $ 272,794
Water Operations $ 1,259,651
Water Capital $ 48,500
Water Extension $ 70,000
Sewer Operations $ 2,128,875
Sewer Capital $ 36,500
Sewer Extension $ 182,300
Water & Sewer Debt $ 172,034
Crestbrook Golf Operations $ 893,156
Crestbrook Improvement Trust $ 64,000
Local Capital Improvement $ 161,415
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 47
J. Consider Approval of Assignment of Tax liens
The Town Council will consider the assignment of Municipal Real Estate Tax Liens to be Transferred to C & W Holdings, LLC.
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to approve the assignment of Municipal Real Estate Tax Liens for the Cura property be transferred to C & W Holdings, LLC.
Discussion: Mr. Wick: Could someone explain what that means? We don't have anything in the packet.
Mr. McHugh: We talked about spending money; now how would you like to make some money or get money back into the Tax Collector's Office? The Cura property off of Route 262, Echo Lake Road, they are behind in their taxes. They have somebody that's willing to buy the tax liens, we'll get the money, and this is authorized by the General Statutes under 12-195H, that municipalities can assign tax liens to anybody. We've done this before on this property, so what will happen is the entity, C & W Holdings, that we will be assigning these liens to will pay off the taxes. Instead of releasing the tax lien we'll just assign it.
The tricky thing, however, in this one is that for this Grand List year, 2001, of course the mill rate hasn't been set yet, but I'd like to be able to assign the liens up to but not including 2001 and then until the mill rate is set, we can take money in to pay off the 2001 under the past mill rate for last year that we're using now as a conditional assignment of that 2001 tax lien year, and that when the mill rate is fixed the additional money will be paid to us and then we can assign it. So basically this is how it would work – we would collect, and I talked to Mary DeSisto about this today, we'd collect the money for the 2000 list which is $12,000 and change and 2001 list because there's no interest that's accrued yet since it's still July is $10,727.82. If they pay those two amounts to us, we'll assign the 2000 list and give them a conditional commitment to assign the 2001 list to C & W Holdings, the condition being that they pay the balance if the mill rate goes up and there's additional taxed due, then we'll just file, because right now there's nothing on the land records for the 2001 anyway, it's an incoate lien, so we'd have to record the tax lien anyway and then just assign it to them.
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Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 48
I think that's the best way to do it, that way you don't have a situation where we assign the 2001 tax lien and then find out there are more taxes due and try to chase down C & W Holdings to pay the differential for the extra few hundred dollars that might be due.
Ms. King: Could you just repeat the owner and the address?
Atty. McHugh: The address is a map lock and lot. It's off of DiNunzio Road. Cura is the one who owns it.
Ms. King: It's the Cura property off of Echo Lake and DiNunzio?
Atty. McHugh: Yes.
Mr. Valenti: They're paying for the full value of what they owe, right, and then (inaudible)?
Atty. McHugh: Including interest and lien fees, everything to date, so like they're having a Closing.
Mr. Valenti: Right, as if we were getting it from them directly, and then we're assigning . . . .
Atty. McHugh: Instead of releasing the lien, you just assign it.
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
K. Consider Resolution Authorizing Condemnation of Easement Areas as Required in Connection with the Bunk Hill Road Sewer Improvement Project
The Bunker Hill Road Sewer Improvement Project requires easements to complete the project. In anticipation were easements are not granted by property owners, the Town Council will authorize the condemnation of necessary easement areas.
RESOLUTION
WHEREAS, the Town of Watertown and the City of Waterbury are currently scheduling construction of the joint Bunker Hill Sewer Improvement Project, and
WHEREAS, as part of that project it will be necessary to obtain easements from property owners in both municipalities; and
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Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
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WHEREAS, the Town Council must approve the condemnation of any property easement areas located in Watertown in the event that the easements cannot be acquired through negotiations; and
WHEREAS, Attorney Marianne Dubuque of the law firm of Carmody and Torrence has been retained under the Bunker Hill Sewer Improvement Project contract to obtain the necessary easements:
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Watertown Town Council approves the condemnation of property easements for the Bunker Hill Sewer Improvements Project by Attorney Marianne Dubuque if she deems it necessary.
Dated at Watertown, Connecticut, this 15th day of July, 2002.
Lee Archer, Chairman
Watertown Town Council
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to approve the Resolution authorizing condemnation of the easement areas as required in connection with the Bunker Hill Road Sewer Improvement Project be approved.
Discussion: Ms. King: Is Atty. Marianne Dubuque of Carmody & Torrence representing us in this? It wasn't clear to me whether she was representing Waterbury or us.
Mr. Frigon: Yes, she is.
Ms. King: Why are they representing us?
Mr. Frigon: The agreement with the City of Waterbury regarding the Bunker Hill Disconnect specifically mandates that any condemnation proceedings in the City of Waterbury be performed by a Waterbury attorney.
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 50
L. Consider Tax Refunds
The Town Council is being asked to Approve the Refunding of the Overpayment of property taxes.
RESOLUTION
WHEREAS, Taxpayers have made application for the property tax refunds in accordance with Section 12-129 Refund of Excess Payment; and
WHEREAS, the Tax Collector recommends that the Refunds be made in accordance with the provisions of Section 12-129;
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Council approves the following Tax Refunds:
630 Chase Manhattan c/o Transamer Amount of Refund: $ 53.03
Attn: Refund Dept. Type R
1201 Elm Street, Suite 400
Dallas, TX 75270-0000
Reason for Refund: Duplicate Payment
1046 LaCapra, Stacy T & George, A., Jr. Amount of Refund: $1,139.72
1650 Litchfield Road Type R
Watertown, CT 06795-0000
Reason for Refund: Duplicate Payment
1056 Nationsbanc Auto Leasing Amount of Refund: $ 289.27
Mail Code CA7-701-0397 Deardor Type M
P.O. Box 2269
Brea, CA 92822-0000
Reason for Refund: Per Assessor, Account Deleted
1058 Nationsbanc Auto Leasing Amount of Refund: $ 300.98
Mail Code CA7-701-0397 Deardor Type M
P.O. Box 2269
Brea, CA 92822-0000
Reason for Refund: Per Assessor, Account Deleted
1061 Wells Fargo Amount of Refund: $ 175.86
Attn: PE Luong Type R
1 Home Campus MACX2502-011
Des Moines, IA 50328-0001
Reason for Refund: Duplicate Payment
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 51
1083 Ford Motor Credit Company Amount of Refund: $ 134.79
260 Interstate North Cir SE #12 M
Atlanta, GA 10339-2210
Reason for Refund: Per Assessor, Account Prorated
1084 Ford Motor Credit Company Amount of Refund: $ 112.19
260 Interstate North Cir SE #12 M
Atlanta, GA 10339-2210
Reason for Refund: Per Assessor, Account Prorated
1085 Ford Motor Credit Company Amount of Refund: $ 123.24
260 Interstate North Cir SE #12 M
Atlanta, GA 10339-2210
Reason for Refund: Per Assessor, Account Prorated
1093 Ford Motor Credit Company Amount of Refund: $ 222.64
260 Interstate North Cir SE #12 M
Atlanta, GA 10339-2210
Reason for Refund: Per Assessor, Account Prorated
1121 Dumschott, Roger & Irmgard Amount of Refund: $ 49.86
449 Mount Fair Drive R
Watertown, CT 06795-1659
Reason for Refund: Per Bd. of Asmnt. Appeals, Assessed Value Decreased
1128 Dumschott, Roger & Irmgard Amount of Refund: $ 47.83
449 Mount Fair Drive R
Watertown, CT 06795-1659
Reason for Refund: Per Bd. of Asmnt. Appeals, Assessed Value Decreased
1131 Jaguar Credit Corporation Amount of Refund: $ 487.34
P.O. Box 680030 M
Franklin, TN 37068-0030
Reason for Refund: Per Assessor, Account Prorated
Total for All Refunds $3,136.75
Dated at Watertown, CT this 11th day of July, 2002.
_________________________
Lee Archer, Chairman
Watertown Town Council
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 52
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to approve the Resolution authorizing Tax Refunds as listed above.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
M. Consider Approval of Transfers
The Town Council is being asked to authorize the Transfer of Departmental Funding between Line Items.
RESOLUTION
WHEREAS, expenses in the 2001-2002 fiscal year require the Transfer of Funds.
NOW THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, by vote of the Watertown Town Council, that the following actions are taken relative to the Transfer of Funds:
GENERAL FUND
WAGE AND SALARY ADJUSTMENTS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2001-2002
FROM:
010-50110-045-0091 Wage & Benefit 35,518
010-50110-004-0012 Purchasing Agent 17,106
010-50110-020-0055 Patrol Sergeants 59,547
010-50110-020-0056 Detectives 86,238
010-50110-020-1408 New Patrol Officer 41,099
010-50110-020-1822 Lieutenant 57,332
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 53
TO:
010-50110-002-0001 Town Manager 13,794
010-50110-002-0041 Secretary II 3,308
010-50110-002-0047 Town Manager Executive Secretary 1,619
010-50110-004-0003 Finance Director 3,282
010-50110-009-0016 town clerk 20,540
010-50125-010-0065 Election Workers 21,170
010-50125-014-1832 Temporary Custodial 4,000
010-50110-015-0005 Building Official 2,313
010-50110-016-1927 Fire Marshal 1,790
010-50110-016-1928 Fire Chief 2,994
010-50120-017-0069 Volunteer Firefighters 4,990
010-50110-019-0006 Police Chief 3,645
010-50110-019-0176 Deputy Chief 3,139
010-50110-020-0057 Patrol Officers 82,889
010-50110-020-0000 Police Overtime 95,536
010-50110-030-0011 Public Works Director 3,388
010-50110-031-0024 Highway Superintendent 1,115
010-50110-031-0000 Highway Overtime 9,205
010-50110-036-1766 Parks Director 1,407
010-50125-036-0000 Parks Temporary Salaries 6,982
010-50110-037-0041 Recreation Secretary II 3,303
010-50110-037-1768 Recreation Director 2,522
010-50125-037-0032 Supervisors & Instructors 1,023
010-50125-037-0051 Recreation Leaders 2,886
AMOUNT: $1,490 NO: 2
FROM: 010-50110-036-0128 – Parks, Park Maintainer I
TO: 010-50552-036-0478 – Parks, 4 WD ¾ ton Truck
REASON: Additional funds required
AMOUNT: $1,672 NO: 3
FROM: 010-50110-036-0128 – Parks, Maintainer I
TO: 010-50336-040-0000 – Miscellaneous Central, Advertising
REASON: Additional advertising cost
AMOUNT: $10,936 NO: 4
FROM: $1,866, 010-50340-040-1359 – Misc. Central, Insurance/package
FROM: $2,111, 010-50340-040-1360 – Misc. Central, Insurance/Auto
FROM: $1,378, 010-50340-040-1363 – Misc. Central, Insurance/Bonds
FROM: $5,581, 010-50110-036-0128 – Parks, Park Maintainer I
TO: 010-50340-040-1361 – Misc. Central, Insurance/Liability
REASON: Additional cost of Liability Insurance
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 54
AMOUNT: $1,440 NO: 5
FROM: 010-50110-036-0128 – Parks, Maintainer I
TO: 010-50322-043-0189 – Misc. Non-Town, W & S Hydrant Fees
REASON: Additional hydrants
Dated at Watertown, CT this 15th day of July, 2002.
_________________________
Lee Archer, Chairman
Watertown Town Council
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Ms. Adams) to approve the Resolution authorizing the Transfers as presented.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
9. Public Participation
Khrystyne Keane, 360 Cherry Avenue, Watertown, CT 06795
Ms. Keane: Going back to what Ms. Adams was saying earlier regarding Agenda Item F on the Town Manager Selection Committee, if I remember correctly our successful superintendent search encompassed many groups of the community, the Lion's Club, parents, and regular citizens. There were time slots afforded to these people to come in and talk with the Search Committee. I think that was a great idea. It worked really well and I think it might have been Mr. Hebert who said, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the Town Manager works for you guys. I fully agree with that, but I also ask you to look at this logo on the front page of this paper – Town of Watertown, Working for You. That's me, that's these people, that's you, that's everyone in this Town. All I'm asking for is a reconsideration to maybe approach the Search Committee since you're already approved it, to see what it would take to have a couple, 2 or 3 group meetings where they can outline the search, like the Superintendent Search Committee did, so the Town's citizens, that the Town is working for, can understand what's going on. I want to meet the people who will be choosing my Town Manager, your Town Manager, because the Town is working for me. And with the defeat of that idea, of Ms. Adams and I think Mr. Wick also, I don't think the Town is working for me, so all I ask is that maybe not tonight, but at a later date, that could be reconsidered and brought to the attention of Mr. Bennett and see what it would take to get that done.
Mr. Hebert left the meeting at this time – 10:21 p.m.
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Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 55
Mr. Archer: You said you want to meet the people who would be choosing the next Town Manager . . . .
Ms. Keane: No, I just want open information.
Mr. Archer: That would be us.
Mr. Hebert returned to the meeting at this time – 10:24 p.m.
Ms. Keane: Well the Search Committee, correct time if I'm wrong, but with the superintendent, the search consulting firm had an open session with the public to say this is what the process is that we'll be going through, and that consulting firm, headhunting firm, whatever you want to call it, had a plan (inaudible) a couple of days to meet with different community groups, community groups that might not have any contact with the Board of Education and what they do, but yet they were met with, and their input was taken, and it was taken seriously. I'm not saying meet with every group again, but maybe instead of having like 11:00 it's going to be the Lion's Club, the Rotary, and the String Orchestra people, but may be at 7:00 at night that there could be a Hearing maybe at the High School where we can say this is what maybe we'd like to see in a Town Manager. I don't want to lose another good Town Manager because there hasn't been the input. Work for us.
Mr. Archer, Chairman, Closed Public Participation at 10:24 p.m.
10. Old Business
A. Code of Ethics (referred to Ordinance Subcommittee)
B. Consider the Appointment of One or More Ordinance Enforcement Hearing Officers Pursuant to Ordinance #04-15-02-248
Mr. Archer: Is there anything we need to speak about here? I don't think there is.
11. Executive Session
A. Pending Litigation
B. Personnel
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to enter into Executive Session at 10:25 p.m. to discuss pending litigation and personnel.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
July 15, 2002
Page 56
The following people attended the Executive Session
Elaine Adams
Lee Archer, Chairman
Raymond Hebert, Jr., Vice Chairman
Robert Kane
Jean King
Raymond Primini
Paul Rinaldi
Paul Valenti
Richard Wick
Charles Frigon
Randy McHugh
Frank Nardelli
Mr. Archer, Chairman, Reconvened the Regular Meeting at 11:05 p.m.
No Motions Were Made; No Votes Were Taken.
11. Adjournment
MOTION: (Ms. Adams, sec. Mr. Kane) to Adjourn the Regular Meeting at 11:05 p.m.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
Regular Meeting Adjourned at 11:05 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Lee Archer, Chairman
Watertown Town Council
Approved: _______________________________
Lynn M. LaForme, Clerk |