MINUTES
WATERTOWN TOWN COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
POLK SCHOOL CAFETERIA
MONDAY, JUNE 2, 2003, 8:00 P.M.
PRESENT: Elaine Adams
Lee Archer, Chairman
Raymond Hebert, Jr., Vice Chairman
Robert Kane
Jean King
Raymond Primini
Paul Rinaldi
Paul Valenti
Richard Wick
ABSENT: None
OTHERS PRESENT: Roy Cavanaugh, Public Works Director
Frank Nardelli, Assistant Town Manager/Finance Director
Meredith Robson, Town Manager
1. Call Meeting To Order
Mr. Archer, Chairman, Called the Meeting to Order at 8:02 p.m.
2. Roll Call
Ms. LaForme, Board Clerk, executed the Roll Call.
3. Pledge of Allegiance
Mr. Archer, Chairman, led the Pledge of Allegiance.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 2
4. Executive Session
A. Pending Litigation
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to enter into Executive Session at 8:04 p.m. to discuss pending litigation with the 9 Town Council Members, Ms. Robson, Mr. Nardelli, Atty. Randall McHugh, and Atty. Paul Jessell.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
The following people were present during Executive Session:
Elaine Adams
Lee Archer
Raymond Hebert
Robert Kane
Jean King
Raymond Primini
Paul Rinaldi
Paul Valenti
Richard Wick
Paul Jessell
Randall McHugh
Frank Nardelli
Meredith Robson
Atty. Paul Jessell left the Executive Session at 8:25 p.m.
Mr. Nardelli left the Executive Session at 8:35 p.m.
Mr. Archer, Chairman, Reconvened the Regular Meeting at 8:52 p.m.
No Motions Were Made; No Votes Were Taken.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 3
5. Public Participation
Mr. Archer: Public Participation has been running very, very long over the past couple of weeks, so I wondered if in fact, I guess on the Board of Ed they imposed a time limit and there was some speculation as to whether or not we would, and I would just ask two things:
1. If you could be respectful of the fact that all of us up here are unpaid volunteers so we're not here to be abused and would like to go home sometime before 2:00 a.m.
2. There are other people who may want to speak as well and don't want to stay here all night for the opportunity to do so.
We have a second Public Participation later in the meeting so if you want to hang around and spout more that would be great.
Bob LeBlanc, 78 Highland Avenue, Watertown, CT 06795
Mr. LeBlanc: I rise to question my Town Council on this package deal that they gave the Town Manager. On the Motion Sheet it says it was presented, approved the Manager's package as presented. When was it presented?
Mr. Archer: Package was presented at a Special Town Council meeting last week.
Mr. LeBlanc: In Executive Session. It was never presented out of Executive Session, so to me I believe any move you make beyond this is going to be illegal to add monies to it, because it was never mentioned the amount of money that they had. Secondly we have to go to the newspaper to learn that it's a 2% or 2.5% raise for the Town Manager, whether she deserves it or not, I'm not going to get into that, but why must we learn from the newspapers that there was such a raise, and it's not in the Minutes and not in the Motion Sheets? I'll let you think about it.
Mr. Archer: No, there may have been an error in how we did that.
Mr. LeBlanc: Error? It's illegal.
Mr. Archer: Bob, do you ever make a mistake?
Mr. LeBlanc: Me? God no. Not in my lifetime.
Mr. Archer: Okay I just want to be (inaudible).
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June 2, 2003
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Mr. LeBlanc: I want to clarify that it was not presented as mentioned in the Motion Sheet.
Mr. Archer: Right.
Mr. LeBlanc: So I have problems with going down the line adding monies to it because it's past the date of the fiscal year of June 1st so now I just think it's a problem.
Mr. Archer: So noted.
Mr. LeBlanc: Approximately a year ago a gentleman stood at this podium and asked for an investigation on the amount of money I was spending in the Town because I didn't show up at an F.O.I. Hearing. I was chastised, and he took one leg off at a time, took one of my ears off and he really drove me down, Mr. Reynolds. Now this past Wednesday, at an F.O.I. Commission meeting which Mr. LeBlanc was at, charges were being brought against the Zoning Board of Appeals, and we had gone to a pre-hearing case about a month before that. The Town Attorney didn't show up, Mr. Reynolds didn't show up, and Ms. Barton didn't show up. Now I would like to have the same respect and have an investigation on how much money these people are spending on F.O.I. complaints just as he did to me, because I think if you spit in the wood it hits you in the forehead, you know, you've got to pay the price.
Mr. Archer: Sure.
Mr. LeBlanc: Polk School, on December 5th, the State wrote off $500,000 worth of (inaudible) what they wouldn't pay for, they disallowed $500,000. My question is, where does this disallowment monies come from, the $500,000? Does the Town have to pay for it, or the Board of Education have to pay for it?
Mr. Archer: Couldn't tell you. Meredith, could we check into that one, please? I think you've asked this before, and I think we answered it before.
Mr. LeBlanc: No, no, I wouldn't ask it again, please, that wouldn't be a mistake. I thank you for listening to me.
Mr. Archer: Thank you.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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Rico Ceniccola, 150 Pullen Avenue, Oakville, CT 06779
Mr. Ceniccola: I'm speaking on behalf of my mother. I'd like to discuss our Overlook Street abandonment petition. We respectfully request that the Council delay the paving of this paper street until the issues with the contract get resolved. To refresh Council's memory I'd like to give you some background. In November the abutting property owners of this paper street applied for a street abandonment petition. Planning and Zoning unanimously approved our request based on all the evidence we presented; the Council, however, did not. One of the reasons Council did not approve our petition is because there is a contract with the City of Waterbury that they did not want to breach, however Waterbury requested this road be paved at the last minute and the proper procedure wasn't followed, violating State Statute Section A-24, therefore the contract that Council is trying to enforce is null and void. So this is an opportunity now for Council to stop the paving which the residents are opposed to. Waterbury's reasons for paving this road, which is located in Watertown, are not even justified as I explained at the last meeting, that is they won't even use it. Also why should we pave a road in our Town for Waterbury's alleged benefit, for Waterbury's convenience, when it's not even needed. Further, I just want to reiterate that no Board member elected to have this paper street paved. This decision was made in some behind closed door meeting. So in conclusion, I'll just keep this brief, since the proper procedures weren't followed, and since there was no legal notice, no public participation, it's not fair to the residents who live there. I believe this is grounds to write a letter to Water & Sewer and to Waterbury and to delay the paving, and to do the public hearing over again. We respectfully request Council do this. Thanks.
Mr. Archer: At the last meeting we referred this to P & Z for A24, or for their recommendation under A24, and I believe that meeting is this Wednesday so that's where we stand with that.
Mr. Ceniccola: Can we write a letter to them to wait until this is all resolved?
Mr. Archer: Well if someone wants to make a motion to that effect, to add that to the Agenda.
Mr. Rinaldi: For next week?
Mr. Archer: I'm not sure.
Mr. Rinaldi: Add what to the Agenda?
Mr. Ceniccola: To write a letter to Water & Sewer and/or Waterbury to delay the paving until this business with the contract gets resolved.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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Mr. Archer: We would have to vote on that.
Mr. Rinaldi: Can you make a motion during Public Participation?
Mr. Archer: No.
Mr. Rinaldi: You have to add it onto the Agenda?
Mr. Archer: Right. So if someone feels they want to do that, then I guess you can do that when we get to Action Items.
Ms. Adams: Do we have a legal opinion on that? I thought I saw something.
Mr. Archer: We do.
Mr. Rinaldi: I'll make a motion that . . . .
Mr. archer: No, you cant make a motion now, you have to wait.
Mr. Rinaldi: I was going to make a motion to add an item to the Agenda.
Mr. Archer: Can you do that now?
Ms. Adams: Afterwards.
Mr. Rinaldi: Okay.
Mr. Ceniccola: Thanks.
Leo Buonocore, Capewell Avenue, Oakville, CT 06779
Mr. Buonocore: I just want to make a comment on this road, we've been batting it around. The reason why Waterbury's putting this road through, which is right above me, the Waterbury garbage trucks have to come into Oakville to get around to go back up into Waterbury. They have to make a swing into Oakville, and it's very dangerous. I'm not rooting for anybody, but this is why they're putting that road through where the Waterbury refuse trucks would go straight through and stay in Waterbury because they go right by my house every morning at 5:30.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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We were batting the budget around before, looking to save a buck here, a buck there, I'm going to get to the schools, I know it's on the Agenda but I won't be around when we talk about it. For 3 years we've got 2 empty buildings that are being heated, we've got Town Offices in Depot Square for 3 years, at $68,000 a year, we wouldn't have had a budget problem if we had acted on these school buildings 3 years ago, we wouldn't have got into the situation we're in today. I never heard tonight salaries, nobody mentioned salaries, not that I'm looking for you people to take away money, but let's freeze something. I mean next year if the economy is like it is right now, where do we go from there, what do we do next year? What are we going to do? Davis Street is all full of potholes, you can't drive on that road, and it's sad that we can't have some of the roads fixed. We have to find some money to do some maintenance on the roads in Town before we have to double the price. Good luck in your future endeavors and I'll read what happens tomorrow morning in the paper.
Enrico Rinaldi, Saunders Avenue, Oakville, CT 06779
Mr. Rinaldi: I'm going to ask just simple questions, it's (inaudible) Agenda anyway. These kids that go to high school, they want to play sports, now all of the sudden the parents said they have to pay $110.00, $120.00 for each sport they're going to add onto. How about if the parents can't afford it? What are you going to do, let them hang around on the streets?
Mr. Archer: The proper forum for the question is probably the Board of Education but . . .
Mr. Rinaldi: Yes, but every time they don't pass the budget, right off the bat they go to the kids, and I don't think that's fair. Now if you give a raise . . . .
Mr. Archer: Wait, let me answer your first question. You need to address that question to the Board of Education, that was their decision, not the Council's.
Mr. Rinaldi: Who gives the Board of Ed the money? We do. You give them the money.
Mr. Archer: Right, but they determine how to use it.
Mr. Rinaldi: Well now they gave everybody a raise.
Mr. Archer: They didn't give everyone a raise, the State . . . .
Mr. Rinaldi: The paper.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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Mr. Archer; The paper is wrong. If the paper said the Board of Education gave the teachers a raise, it is wrong. The Board of Education voted against the teacher's salaries. It was given to them by an Arbitration Board of the State. No matter what Jack Walton and Frank McHale write, we didn't do it.
Mr. Rinaldi: If these kids want to play sports, and their parents can't afford it, they're going to hang around the streets and be bums.
Mr. Archer: We agree with you.
Mr. Rinaldi: They need 60,000? Don't give the teachers 2% or 3% raise, give them 1% and take some of the money for the sports.
Mr. Archer: We agree with you.
Nr. Rinaldi: The Public Works – I've been waiting now over 2 years to take care of, (inaudible), so to take care of the trees on the street and the branches are going to fall off and people are going to get hurt. Good thing nobody was in the driveway at my son's house because the big ranch came off the tree, a big branch. Mr. Paul Rinaldi saw it too. We picked it up and put it on the side. We're still waiting for them to take care of that tree, but it seems like there's never any money. Where does all the money go? I don't know. (Inaudible).
Mr. Archer: That's where it goes.
Mr. Rinaldi: I'm very disappointed when they take money from the kids.
Mr. Archer: Me too.
Mr. Rinaldi: Pretty soon they won't have sports.
Mr. Archer: It could be.
Mr. Rinaldi: That's very sad.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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Michael Marcelinas, 295 Winding Brook Farm Road, Watertown, CT 06795
Mr. Marcelinas: I'm here to follow-up on the pay to play issue. I know the School Board is the one that determines who plays (inaudible) but you guys are the ones with the purse strings, you say you could have this much money and the Town side can have this much money. Basically spots in school is a Town services. Kids go to school, they need to have activities, they need to have things going on. In 1991 you guys tried doing this and it didn't work. You didn't make enough money, you lost kids, the whole program suffered, probably for a couple of years before they went back to where they were. If you look at the true cost of pay to play, it's not just $60,000. You may get it, you may get less, more, who knows, but the big thing is you're going to have (inaudible) out there, less kids are going to be out there they're not going to be doing sports. A lot of kids are borderline, the only reason why they do school is so they can play football, the coach is out there teaching them, helping them in the afternoon so they can get their grades up, so they can play sports. If you take away sports, they're out on the street playing around, doing stuff, not going to go to school. That's the cost of pay to play. Another thing is the kids love going to school and talking about their sports teams, grammar schools, high schools, college; sports is very important, they take a lot of pride in sports and a lot of times when you talk about Watertown, and you think of sports, and you think of Rico Brogna. You take away sports and you've got no Rico. He'd be out of Taft and you guys would be saying Rick Brogna from Taft, not from Watertown.
A couple of questions and thoughts - I know you have money to allocate rather than allocating it to the Town's side give it to the School side what you could do is hold up on some of the capital projects. I think the Town is real good at stalling projects. The Turkey Brook was stalled so long you lost State funds so the money you're thinking of spending or looking to do that or keep that into the school side. Swift you're looking to expand once or twice there's different problems. Why don't you hold off a year or two, look back and see what kind or problems you can have if you can use the field, go up go down, go back, figure it out before you start spending a lot of time, effort and money.
Mr. Archer: That is being determined, that's what they're doing right now.
Mr. Marcelinas: Okay after they started doing a lot of processes, figuring going up, out, they said oh by the way you can't use the parking lot was that the deal?
Mr. Archer: No, that was erroneous in the paper. That has been known by Board members for years.
Mr. Marcelinas: Another option, I know Waterbury is big on this, you have Town assets, you may want to sell an asset here or there to raise some money, short term capital. (Inaudible)
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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Mr. Hebert: What would you consider selling?
Mr. Marcelinas: A couple of empty abandoned school buildings.
Mr. Hebert: That's being worked on.
Mr. Archer: It's on the Agenda tonight.
Mr. Marcelinas: Thank you. Another one for this fiscal year, on the Town's side, the schools side are you guys in the red, in the black, is everything right on schedule? Do you have up to date answers on that so you know if you have extra money to carry over to next year or not, or if you're short to being with?
Mr. Archer: I think we're pretty much right on.
Mr. Marcelinas: Your budget is right there, boom, nothing extra, nothing short?
Mr. Archer: As of today I can't answer you, but last I looked, back in April, they appeared to be.
Mr. Marcelinas: Okay, thank you. The question on that Title I funding. In the paper it came out as $350,000, there was a rumor that it might be only $200,000. Is there a little swing in there? Are people playing with numbers?
Mr. Archer: Meredith, can you explain that?
Ms. Robson: I'll do my best. Phil is here so perhaps you'd get a better explanation there. It was indeed $350,111 that the school district will no longer receive because they don't qualify for the Title I funding. The $200,000 comes from the a change, they have a retirement and somebody who's a resignation, I believe, from the program, the teacher that is involved in the program, so they're not going to replace that and they have some funds, they're taking Title I funds that they're taking from this current fiscal year and they'll use against next year and then it runs out, so when they make those changes they can still provide a service, but now it's at $200,000, but then they have no funds to run the program. Did I do that justice?
Dr. Pelosi: That's correct.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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Mr. Marcelinas: Thank you. Okay one suggestion, this might be something to address to the school is I look at pay to play as a fund-raiser. You guys don't support the kids with a lot of uniforms, equipment, all the parents groups do that, the kids do that, they buy their own uniforms, rather than say before you even start kicking $100.00 why don't you look at like (inaudible) in the paper last week? They got money from Pepsi to put a scoreboard up to get them sodas and they'll pay money every year for a little bit of advertising. That's just the tip of the iceberg. You can make a lot of money by basically selling out, if that's what you want to call it, or just a smart way to get some revenue.
Mr. Archer: By the way thank you, this is how this is supposed to work, is we don't have all the answers, we need citizens to come forward with ideas that they see in the paper and stuff so thank you.
Mr. Marcelinas: You're welcome. A lot of people here are involved in sports, behind me right now, and Id like to see you guys hold the line on the school budget, give them the funds they need to provide the school service to the kids academically and sport-wise. Why harass the kids, why charge them money, why charge more money to the kids, athletes in particular, and if you can hold up on the Town's side, there are a lot of projects that you may be able to hold off for a year or so. I say give Dr. Ramos that wiggle room he talked about last week to get rid of pay to play. I think the first referendum lost by 300 votes, it was a small percentage showing up to vote. I think if you allow the school board to get rid of pay to play and advertise it and tell the people in Town what happened, you may get a lot more people out there that are angry now, going out there and voting for the budget and getting this thing done in 2 shots, instead of 14 or 15 like Amity. Thank you.
Mr. Archer: Just as a follow-up, we just had a Finance Subcommittee before this and any cuts we made we took them all out of the Town's side.
Tom Norton, 186 Eaton Street, Oakville, CT 06779
Mr. Norton: Please bear with me. I went to the Board of Education last Tuesday and I asked them about the pay for play, and I thought it was a terrible idea to come out with their best budget, their first chance to pass a budget and the first line item was pay for play sports, lose 3 teachers, and that was the best they could do. I didn't think that should have been included. I didn't like the last budget, but I voted yes for it. I knew it could be much worse and I'm here to tell you to please keep the money into the Board of Education. 11 years ago marks the anniversary of the worst budget cuts in the history of Watertown education and we're still recovering from it. I'd hate to see us lose the band again. The band is still on its upswing, it's just about there, it took a long time. Last Thursday was President Kennedy's birthday. I didn't attend a parade or anything, there was no big fanfare about it, but 42 years ago President John Kennedy gave a speech to Congress it was a matter of urgent needs and I'd like to just quote a few lines from that speech:
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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"Our greatest asset in the struggle is the American people, their willingness to pay the price for these programs, to understand and accept the long struggle, to share the resources with other less fortunate people, to exercise self restraint instead of pushing wages and prices, to stride for excellence in their schools, and their cities, and their physical fitness and that of their children to take part in civil defense, to pay higher postal rates and higher payroll taxes and higher teacher salaries in order to strengthen our society, to show friendship to students, visitors form other lands who visit us, and to go back in many cases to be the future leaders with an image of America, and I want that image and I know you do to be affirmative and positive, and finally to practice democracy at home in all states, with all races, and to respect each other and to protect the constitutional rights of all citizens."
What I'm asking is, I ask this Town Council to send the budget back to the people with the demand that this is what the Town needs, no further cuts. Please restore money for the third grade teachers; sports activities are the heart and soul of this Town. Please never mention pay for play again. Please consider putting a referendum question on the next referendum for relief for senior citizen's property taxes, I believe that they deserve a property tax break, and while you're at it, put what to do about these buildings, the two school buildings, put it on referendum with the Town budget that all the people come out to vote that day, put these two questions on the referendum and you'll have a terrific turnout. Just publicize that you're having this referendum with these questions on it. Our Town buildings have a useful purpose, they don't have to be sold off. We have a need for them so let's use it. Please consider wage freezes for administrators and Town personnel, please consider fixing up the track at the high school, and I wish you well cause you guys have a hell of a job on your hands, and you've done a good job so far, so please consider keeping our cuts small, and you just at the last moment cut my right off by (inaudible) it did me away, I want to thank you.
Mr. Archer: Thanks for the quote, that's a good one. Unfortunately there's a very vocal minority, I might add, and I should say in this Town who doesn't want to pay for things and it requires everyone who is willing to pay for these things to come out and voice that opinion at the polls, so I believe June 25th is going to be the date of that next budget referendum, so everyone who believes that by everyone contributing we all benefit, please come out and voice that opinion.
Al Mickel, 173 DiNunzio Road, Oakville, CT 06779
Mr. Mickel: You guys face large, difficult problems. I have a small easy one for you. I'm looking for the Minutes to be put on the Internet. Can I get a date and I'll stop coming up here?
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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Ms. Robson: We have discussed it. We obviously haven't gotten there yet, but we have been working on it.
Mr. Mickel: Give me a date and I'll stop coming up here.
Ms. Robson: I'll get you a date and I'll get back to you.
Ms. Adams: Are you looking for just the Council or all the boards and commissions?
Mr. Mickel: Just the Council.
Ms. Adams: We could do them all, and save people money.
Mr. Archer: Let's start with one, if we can get that right and then we could apply it across the board.
Brian Stanley, 440 Platt Road, Watertown, CT 06795
Mr. Stanley: I came here tonight very concerned about the sports in this Town. I agree with everyone that it's very important to the youth of this Town. I grew up in this Town my whole life, I played sports and I truly believe sports saved me, got me through a lot of tough times. But anyway it sounds like you are concerned here and are worried about the pay to play and that's all I can ask the Town Council. I just hope this message is conveyed to the Board of Education. Thank you.
Ray Chicowski, 65 High Street, Watertown, CT 06795
Mr. Chicowski: Case in point, this gentleman said that sports was indicative in his life. Not too long ago I came across some facts about Watertown and I was appalled at the drop out rate at the High School, starting from the D.A.R.E. Program following through with keeping it, all those things, sports is the same thing. You don't take away, you give, you make better, and these things will change. I said to my daughter the other day, where's so and so? She dropped out. I said what? Top student, dropped out. I said why? I don't know. Another person stayed back last year. Why? Smart kid. Where is he, is he going to graduate this year? No, he dropped out. So I think you're going to see more of this, and it's a delayed reaction thing. You take away sports from people for whatever reason, I know if they qualify for State then they don't have to pay for play, and all these other issues, but taking away from a system that is the only system that makes our whole system work is, I don't understand it, so I think more money should go into it somehow, from somewhere. I was talking to another man, you know been selling banner ads on the web site. Anything. I'm just recently getting involved with fund-raising, so that's my issue.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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Mr. Archer: Not trying to debate you, this is purely just an honest question, if instead of the pay for play they had come out with a budget that had took away 3 teaches and increased class sizes would you have come out to speak out against that, or would it have gone unnoticed?
Mr. Chicowski: I'm not sure. Like I said I'm just recently getting involved with the Booster Club and donating some of my time to help raise funds to purchase things for the kids, and it just happened to be sports orientated. I wasn't aware of the issues. Unfortunately I've never gone to the meetings before and the other thing is voter apathy. I just can't believe that the issues that people should be facing they're not. There is one particular area where I lived a couple of years ago, I went door to door in my neighborhood and then when I saw who voted, when I just happened to walk by, they didn't vote, so it's like I don't know, I think there should be more, like this man said, put stuff on the web site get people, the public, more involved with this, even just getting more people out to vote, getting people more interested in Town functions or what have you. I know I will for sure.
Mr. Archer: It's interesting, we were just informed that we lost Title I money and of course that's based on a Town's affluence as opposed to people living at the poverty line and since the last census, which of course was a decade ago, the Town had become so affluent that it doesn't qualify for Title I money, but we still argue about 1/10 of a mill rate increases. It's hard to fathom.
Mr. Chicowski: Even the people who don't pay taxes that live in apartments, they should be the ones that don't have anything to lose, you know, pay more taxes, have less service, they still don't vote.
John Bongiorno, 1254 Litchfield Road, Watertown, CT 06795
Mr. Bongiorno: It's good to see the degree of passion from the individuals who come out to speak. It's good to see people come out when they have a particular passion. I wish people would realize that there's a lot more passionate things going on in Town all the time, instead of just when one issue happens to trip a lot of issues.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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Let me make a couple of quick points on pay for play. I've been an athlete my whole life. I've probably learned more from athletics than pretty much so anything except maybe my grandparents and my parents, and I find it, understand, after reading through the budget, I understand why I think they need to do it, but I think that it's almost discriminatory to the point where a lot of resources go towards children who might not be able to learn at the same rate as other children, etc., but we're automatically writing off the people who need athletics to get them to go to school as some of these other people mentioned. |