MINUTES
WATERTOWN TOWN COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
POLK SCHOOL CAFETERIA
MONDAY, JUNE 2, 2003, 8:00 P.M.
PRESENT: Elaine Adams
Lee Archer, Chairman
Raymond Hebert, Jr., Vice Chairman
Robert Kane
Jean King
Raymond Primini
Paul Rinaldi
Paul Valenti
Richard Wick
ABSENT: None
OTHERS PRESENT: Roy Cavanaugh, Public Works Director
Frank Nardelli, Assistant Town Manager/Finance Director
Meredith Robson, Town Manager
1. Call Meeting To Order
Mr. Archer, Chairman, Called the Meeting to Order at 8:02 p.m.
2. Roll Call
Ms. LaForme, Board Clerk, executed the Roll Call.
3. Pledge of Allegiance
Mr. Archer, Chairman, led the Pledge of Allegiance.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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4. Executive Session
A. Pending Litigation
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to enter into Executive Session at 8:04 p.m. to discuss pending litigation with the 9 Town Council Members, Ms. Robson, Mr. Nardelli, Atty. Randall McHugh, and Atty. Paul Jessell.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
The following people were present during Executive Session:
Elaine Adams
Lee Archer
Raymond Hebert
Robert Kane
Jean King
Raymond Primini
Paul Rinaldi
Paul Valenti
Richard Wick
Paul Jessell
Randall McHugh
Frank Nardelli
Meredith Robson
Atty. Paul Jessell left the Executive Session at 8:25 p.m.
Mr. Nardelli left the Executive Session at 8:35 p.m.
Mr. Archer, Chairman, Reconvened the Regular Meeting at 8:52 p.m.
No Motions Were Made; No Votes Were Taken.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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5. Public Participation
Mr. Archer: Public Participation has been running very, very long over the past couple of weeks, so I wondered if in fact, I guess on the Board of Ed they imposed a time limit and there was some speculation as to whether or not we would, and I would just ask two things:
1. If you could be respectful of the fact that all of us up here are unpaid volunteers so we're not here to be abused and would like to go home sometime before 2:00 a.m.
2. There are other people who may want to speak as well and don't want to stay here all night for the opportunity to do so.
We have a second Public Participation later in the meeting so if you want to hang around and spout more that would be great.
Bob LeBlanc, 78 Highland Avenue, Watertown, CT 06795
Mr. LeBlanc: I rise to question my Town Council on this package deal that they gave the Town Manager. On the Motion Sheet it says it was presented, approved the Manager's package as presented. When was it presented?
Mr. Archer: Package was presented at a Special Town Council meeting last week.
Mr. LeBlanc: In Executive Session. It was never presented out of Executive Session, so to me I believe any move you make beyond this is going to be illegal to add monies to it, because it was never mentioned the amount of money that they had. Secondly we have to go to the newspaper to learn that it's a 2% or 2.5% raise for the Town Manager, whether she deserves it or not, I'm not going to get into that, but why must we learn from the newspapers that there was such a raise, and it's not in the Minutes and not in the Motion Sheets? I'll let you think about it.
Mr. Archer: No, there may have been an error in how we did that.
Mr. LeBlanc: Error? It's illegal.
Mr. Archer: Bob, do you ever make a mistake?
Mr. LeBlanc: Me? God no. Not in my lifetime.
Mr. Archer: Okay I just want to be (inaudible).
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June 2, 2003
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Mr. LeBlanc: I want to clarify that it was not presented as mentioned in the Motion Sheet.
Mr. Archer: Right.
Mr. LeBlanc: So I have problems with going down the line adding monies to it because it's past the date of the fiscal year of June 1st so now I just think it's a problem.
Mr. Archer: So noted.
Mr. LeBlanc: Approximately a year ago a gentleman stood at this podium and asked for an investigation on the amount of money I was spending in the Town because I didn't show up at an F.O.I. Hearing. I was chastised, and he took one leg off at a time, took one of my ears off and he really drove me down, Mr. Reynolds. Now this past Wednesday, at an F.O.I. Commission meeting which Mr. LeBlanc was at, charges were being brought against the Zoning Board of Appeals, and we had gone to a pre-hearing case about a month before that. The Town Attorney didn't show up, Mr. Reynolds didn't show up, and Ms. Barton didn't show up. Now I would like to have the same respect and have an investigation on how much money these people are spending on F.O.I. complaints just as he did to me, because I think if you spit in the wood it hits you in the forehead, you know, you've got to pay the price.
Mr. Archer: Sure.
Mr. LeBlanc: Polk School, on December 5th, the State wrote off $500,000 worth of (inaudible) what they wouldn't pay for, they disallowed $500,000. My question is, where does this disallowment monies come from, the $500,000? Does the Town have to pay for it, or the Board of Education have to pay for it?
Mr. Archer: Couldn't tell you. Meredith, could we check into that one, please? I think you've asked this before, and I think we answered it before.
Mr. LeBlanc: No, no, I wouldn't ask it again, please, that wouldn't be a mistake. I thank you for listening to me.
Mr. Archer: Thank you.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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Rico Ceniccola, 150 Pullen Avenue, Oakville, CT 06779
Mr. Ceniccola: I'm speaking on behalf of my mother. I'd like to discuss our Overlook Street abandonment petition. We respectfully request that the Council delay the paving of this paper street until the issues with the contract get resolved. To refresh Council's memory I'd like to give you some background. In November the abutting property owners of this paper street applied for a street abandonment petition. Planning and Zoning unanimously approved our request based on all the evidence we presented; the Council, however, did not. One of the reasons Council did not approve our petition is because there is a contract with the City of Waterbury that they did not want to breach, however Waterbury requested this road be paved at the last minute and the proper procedure wasn't followed, violating State Statute Section A-24, therefore the contract that Council is trying to enforce is null and void. So this is an opportunity now for Council to stop the paving which the residents are opposed to. Waterbury's reasons for paving this road, which is located in Watertown, are not even justified as I explained at the last meeting, that is they won't even use it. Also why should we pave a road in our Town for Waterbury's alleged benefit, for Waterbury's convenience, when it's not even needed. Further, I just want to reiterate that no Board member elected to have this paper street paved. This decision was made in some behind closed door meeting. So in conclusion, I'll just keep this brief, since the proper procedures weren't followed, and since there was no legal notice, no public participation, it's not fair to the residents who live there. I believe this is grounds to write a letter to Water & Sewer and to Waterbury and to delay the paving, and to do the public hearing over again. We respectfully request Council do this. Thanks.
Mr. Archer: At the last meeting we referred this to P & Z for A24, or for their recommendation under A24, and I believe that meeting is this Wednesday so that's where we stand with that.
Mr. Ceniccola: Can we write a letter to them to wait until this is all resolved?
Mr. Archer: Well if someone wants to make a motion to that effect, to add that to the Agenda.
Mr. Rinaldi: For next week?
Mr. Archer: I'm not sure.
Mr. Rinaldi: Add what to the Agenda?
Mr. Ceniccola: To write a letter to Water & Sewer and/or Waterbury to delay the paving until this business with the contract gets resolved.
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June 2, 2003
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Mr. Archer: We would have to vote on that.
Mr. Rinaldi: Can you make a motion during Public Participation?
Mr. Archer: No.
Mr. Rinaldi: You have to add it onto the Agenda?
Mr. Archer: Right. So if someone feels they want to do that, then I guess you can do that when we get to Action Items.
Ms. Adams: Do we have a legal opinion on that? I thought I saw something.
Mr. Archer: We do.
Mr. Rinaldi: I'll make a motion that . . . .
Mr. archer: No, you cant make a motion now, you have to wait.
Mr. Rinaldi: I was going to make a motion to add an item to the Agenda.
Mr. Archer: Can you do that now?
Ms. Adams: Afterwards.
Mr. Rinaldi: Okay.
Mr. Ceniccola: Thanks.
Leo Buonocore, Capewell Avenue, Oakville, CT 06779
Mr. Buonocore: I just want to make a comment on this road, we've been batting it around. The reason why Waterbury's putting this road through, which is right above me, the Waterbury garbage trucks have to come into Oakville to get around to go back up into Waterbury. They have to make a swing into Oakville, and it's very dangerous. I'm not rooting for anybody, but this is why they're putting that road through where the Waterbury refuse trucks would go straight through and stay in Waterbury because they go right by my house every morning at 5:30.
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June 2, 2003
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We were batting the budget around before, looking to save a buck here, a buck there, I'm going to get to the schools, I know it's on the Agenda but I won't be around when we talk about it. For 3 years we've got 2 empty buildings that are being heated, we've got Town Offices in Depot Square for 3 years, at $68,000 a year, we wouldn't have had a budget problem if we had acted on these school buildings 3 years ago, we wouldn't have got into the situation we're in today. I never heard tonight salaries, nobody mentioned salaries, not that I'm looking for you people to take away money, but let's freeze something. I mean next year if the economy is like it is right now, where do we go from there, what do we do next year? What are we going to do? Davis Street is all full of potholes, you can't drive on that road, and it's sad that we can't have some of the roads fixed. We have to find some money to do some maintenance on the roads in Town before we have to double the price. Good luck in your future endeavors and I'll read what happens tomorrow morning in the paper.
Enrico Rinaldi, Saunders Avenue, Oakville, CT 06779
Mr. Rinaldi: I'm going to ask just simple questions, it's (inaudible) Agenda anyway. These kids that go to high school, they want to play sports, now all of the sudden the parents said they have to pay $110.00, $120.00 for each sport they're going to add onto. How about if the parents can't afford it? What are you going to do, let them hang around on the streets?
Mr. Archer: The proper forum for the question is probably the Board of Education but . . .
Mr. Rinaldi: Yes, but every time they don't pass the budget, right off the bat they go to the kids, and I don't think that's fair. Now if you give a raise . . . .
Mr. Archer: Wait, let me answer your first question. You need to address that question to the Board of Education, that was their decision, not the Council's.
Mr. Rinaldi: Who gives the Board of Ed the money? We do. You give them the money.
Mr. Archer: Right, but they determine how to use it.
Mr. Rinaldi: Well now they gave everybody a raise.
Mr. Archer: They didn't give everyone a raise, the State . . . .
Mr. Rinaldi: The paper.
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June 2, 2003
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Mr. Archer; The paper is wrong. If the paper said the Board of Education gave the teachers a raise, it is wrong. The Board of Education voted against the teacher's salaries. It was given to them by an Arbitration Board of the State. No matter what Jack Walton and Frank McHale write, we didn't do it.
Mr. Rinaldi: If these kids want to play sports, and their parents can't afford it, they're going to hang around the streets and be bums.
Mr. Archer: We agree with you.
Mr. Rinaldi: They need 60,000? Don't give the teachers 2% or 3% raise, give them 1% and take some of the money for the sports.
Mr. Archer: We agree with you.
Nr. Rinaldi: The Public Works – I've been waiting now over 2 years to take care of, (inaudible), so to take care of the trees on the street and the branches are going to fall off and people are going to get hurt. Good thing nobody was in the driveway at my son's house because the big ranch came off the tree, a big branch. Mr. Paul Rinaldi saw it too. We picked it up and put it on the side. We're still waiting for them to take care of that tree, but it seems like there's never any money. Where does all the money go? I don't know. (Inaudible).
Mr. Archer: That's where it goes.
Mr. Rinaldi: I'm very disappointed when they take money from the kids.
Mr. Archer: Me too.
Mr. Rinaldi: Pretty soon they won't have sports.
Mr. Archer: It could be.
Mr. Rinaldi: That's very sad.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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Michael Marcelinas, 295 Winding Brook Farm Road, Watertown, CT 06795
Mr. Marcelinas: I'm here to follow-up on the pay to play issue. I know the School Board is the one that determines who plays (inaudible) but you guys are the ones with the purse strings, you say you could have this much money and the Town side can have this much money. Basically spots in school is a Town services. Kids go to school, they need to have activities, they need to have things going on. In 1991 you guys tried doing this and it didn't work. You didn't make enough money, you lost kids, the whole program suffered, probably for a couple of years before they went back to where they were. If you look at the true cost of pay to play, it's not just $60,000. You may get it, you may get less, more, who knows, but the big thing is you're going to have (inaudible) out there, less kids are going to be out there they're not going to be doing sports. A lot of kids are borderline, the only reason why they do school is so they can play football, the coach is out there teaching them, helping them in the afternoon so they can get their grades up, so they can play sports. If you take away sports, they're out on the street playing around, doing stuff, not going to go to school. That's the cost of pay to play. Another thing is the kids love going to school and talking about their sports teams, grammar schools, high schools, college; sports is very important, they take a lot of pride in sports and a lot of times when you talk about Watertown, and you think of sports, and you think of Rico Brogna. You take away sports and you've got no Rico. He'd be out of Taft and you guys would be saying Rick Brogna from Taft, not from Watertown.
A couple of questions and thoughts - I know you have money to allocate rather than allocating it to the Town's side give it to the School side what you could do is hold up on some of the capital projects. I think the Town is real good at stalling projects. The Turkey Brook was stalled so long you lost State funds so the money you're thinking of spending or looking to do that or keep that into the school side. Swift you're looking to expand once or twice there's different problems. Why don't you hold off a year or two, look back and see what kind or problems you can have if you can use the field, go up go down, go back, figure it out before you start spending a lot of time, effort and money.
Mr. Archer: That is being determined, that's what they're doing right now.
Mr. Marcelinas: Okay after they started doing a lot of processes, figuring going up, out, they said oh by the way you can't use the parking lot was that the deal?
Mr. Archer: No, that was erroneous in the paper. That has been known by Board members for years.
Mr. Marcelinas: Another option, I know Waterbury is big on this, you have Town assets, you may want to sell an asset here or there to raise some money, short term capital. (Inaudible)
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June 2, 2003
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Mr. Hebert: What would you consider selling?
Mr. Marcelinas: A couple of empty abandoned school buildings.
Mr. Hebert: That's being worked on.
Mr. Archer: It's on the Agenda tonight.
Mr. Marcelinas: Thank you. Another one for this fiscal year, on the Town's side, the schools side are you guys in the red, in the black, is everything right on schedule? Do you have up to date answers on that so you know if you have extra money to carry over to next year or not, or if you're short to being with?
Mr. Archer: I think we're pretty much right on.
Mr. Marcelinas: Your budget is right there, boom, nothing extra, nothing short?
Mr. Archer: As of today I can't answer you, but last I looked, back in April, they appeared to be.
Mr. Marcelinas: Okay, thank you. The question on that Title I funding. In the paper it came out as $350,000, there was a rumor that it might be only $200,000. Is there a little swing in there? Are people playing with numbers?
Mr. Archer: Meredith, can you explain that?
Ms. Robson: I'll do my best. Phil is here so perhaps you'd get a better explanation there. It was indeed $350,111 that the school district will no longer receive because they don't qualify for the Title I funding. The $200,000 comes from the a change, they have a retirement and somebody who's a resignation, I believe, from the program, the teacher that is involved in the program, so they're not going to replace that and they have some funds, they're taking Title I funds that they're taking from this current fiscal year and they'll use against next year and then it runs out, so when they make those changes they can still provide a service, but now it's at $200,000, but then they have no funds to run the program. Did I do that justice?
Dr. Pelosi: That's correct.
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June 2, 2003
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Mr. Marcelinas: Thank you. Okay one suggestion, this might be something to address to the school is I look at pay to play as a fund-raiser. You guys don't support the kids with a lot of uniforms, equipment, all the parents groups do that, the kids do that, they buy their own uniforms, rather than say before you even start kicking $100.00 why don't you look at like (inaudible) in the paper last week? They got money from Pepsi to put a scoreboard up to get them sodas and they'll pay money every year for a little bit of advertising. That's just the tip of the iceberg. You can make a lot of money by basically selling out, if that's what you want to call it, or just a smart way to get some revenue.
Mr. Archer: By the way thank you, this is how this is supposed to work, is we don't have all the answers, we need citizens to come forward with ideas that they see in the paper and stuff so thank you.
Mr. Marcelinas: You're welcome. A lot of people here are involved in sports, behind me right now, and Id like to see you guys hold the line on the school budget, give them the funds they need to provide the school service to the kids academically and sport-wise. Why harass the kids, why charge them money, why charge more money to the kids, athletes in particular, and if you can hold up on the Town's side, there are a lot of projects that you may be able to hold off for a year or so. I say give Dr. Ramos that wiggle room he talked about last week to get rid of pay to play. I think the first referendum lost by 300 votes, it was a small percentage showing up to vote. I think if you allow the school board to get rid of pay to play and advertise it and tell the people in Town what happened, you may get a lot more people out there that are angry now, going out there and voting for the budget and getting this thing done in 2 shots, instead of 14 or 15 like Amity. Thank you.
Mr. Archer: Just as a follow-up, we just had a Finance Subcommittee before this and any cuts we made we took them all out of the Town's side.
Tom Norton, 186 Eaton Street, Oakville, CT 06779
Mr. Norton: Please bear with me. I went to the Board of Education last Tuesday and I asked them about the pay for play, and I thought it was a terrible idea to come out with their best budget, their first chance to pass a budget and the first line item was pay for play sports, lose 3 teachers, and that was the best they could do. I didn't think that should have been included. I didn't like the last budget, but I voted yes for it. I knew it could be much worse and I'm here to tell you to please keep the money into the Board of Education. 11 years ago marks the anniversary of the worst budget cuts in the history of Watertown education and we're still recovering from it. I'd hate to see us lose the band again. The band is still on its upswing, it's just about there, it took a long time. Last Thursday was President Kennedy's birthday. I didn't attend a parade or anything, there was no big fanfare about it, but 42 years ago President John Kennedy gave a speech to Congress it was a matter of urgent needs and I'd like to just quote a few lines from that speech:
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
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"Our greatest asset in the struggle is the American people, their willingness to pay the price for these programs, to understand and accept the long struggle, to share the resources with other less fortunate people, to exercise self restraint instead of pushing wages and prices, to stride for excellence in their schools, and their cities, and their physical fitness and that of their children to take part in civil defense, to pay higher postal rates and higher payroll taxes and higher teacher salaries in order to strengthen our society, to show friendship to students, visitors form other lands who visit us, and to go back in many cases to be the future leaders with an image of America, and I want that image and I know you do to be affirmative and positive, and finally to practice democracy at home in all states, with all races, and to respect each other and to protect the constitutional rights of all citizens."
What I'm asking is, I ask this Town Council to send the budget back to the people with the demand that this is what the Town needs, no further cuts. Please restore money for the third grade teachers; sports activities are the heart and soul of this Town. Please never mention pay for play again. Please consider putting a referendum question on the next referendum for relief for senior citizen's property taxes, I believe that they deserve a property tax break, and while you're at it, put what to do about these buildings, the two school buildings, put it on referendum with the Town budget that all the people come out to vote that day, put these two questions on the referendum and you'll have a terrific turnout. Just publicize that you're having this referendum with these questions on it. Our Town buildings have a useful purpose, they don't have to be sold off. We have a need for them so let's use it. Please consider wage freezes for administrators and Town personnel, please consider fixing up the track at the high school, and I wish you well cause you guys have a hell of a job on your hands, and you've done a good job so far, so please consider keeping our cuts small, and you just at the last moment cut my right off by (inaudible) it did me away, I want to thank you.
Mr. Archer: Thanks for the quote, that's a good one. Unfortunately there's a very vocal minority, I might add, and I should say in this Town who doesn't want to pay for things and it requires everyone who is willing to pay for these things to come out and voice that opinion at the polls, so I believe June 25th is going to be the date of that next budget referendum, so everyone who believes that by everyone contributing we all benefit, please come out and voice that opinion.
Al Mickel, 173 DiNunzio Road, Oakville, CT 06779
Mr. Mickel: You guys face large, difficult problems. I have a small easy one for you. I'm looking for the Minutes to be put on the Internet. Can I get a date and I'll stop coming up here?
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Ms. Robson: We have discussed it. We obviously haven't gotten there yet, but we have been working on it.
Mr. Mickel: Give me a date and I'll stop coming up here.
Ms. Robson: I'll get you a date and I'll get back to you.
Ms. Adams: Are you looking for just the Council or all the boards and commissions?
Mr. Mickel: Just the Council.
Ms. Adams: We could do them all, and save people money.
Mr. Archer: Let's start with one, if we can get that right and then we could apply it across the board.
Brian Stanley, 440 Platt Road, Watertown, CT 06795
Mr. Stanley: I came here tonight very concerned about the sports in this Town. I agree with everyone that it's very important to the youth of this Town. I grew up in this Town my whole life, I played sports and I truly believe sports saved me, got me through a lot of tough times. But anyway it sounds like you are concerned here and are worried about the pay to play and that's all I can ask the Town Council. I just hope this message is conveyed to the Board of Education. Thank you.
Ray Chicowski, 65 High Street, Watertown, CT 06795
Mr. Chicowski: Case in point, this gentleman said that sports was indicative in his life. Not too long ago I came across some facts about Watertown and I was appalled at the drop out rate at the High School, starting from the D.A.R.E. Program following through with keeping it, all those things, sports is the same thing. You don't take away, you give, you make better, and these things will change. I said to my daughter the other day, where's so and so? She dropped out. I said what? Top student, dropped out. I said why? I don't know. Another person stayed back last year. Why? Smart kid. Where is he, is he going to graduate this year? No, he dropped out. So I think you're going to see more of this, and it's a delayed reaction thing. You take away sports from people for whatever reason, I know if they qualify for State then they don't have to pay for play, and all these other issues, but taking away from a system that is the only system that makes our whole system work is, I don't understand it, so I think more money should go into it somehow, from somewhere. I was talking to another man, you know been selling banner ads on the web site. Anything. I'm just recently getting involved with fund-raising, so that's my issue.
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Mr. Archer: Not trying to debate you, this is purely just an honest question, if instead of the pay for play they had come out with a budget that had took away 3 teaches and increased class sizes would you have come out to speak out against that, or would it have gone unnoticed?
Mr. Chicowski: I'm not sure. Like I said I'm just recently getting involved with the Booster Club and donating some of my time to help raise funds to purchase things for the kids, and it just happened to be sports orientated. I wasn't aware of the issues. Unfortunately I've never gone to the meetings before and the other thing is voter apathy. I just can't believe that the issues that people should be facing they're not. There is one particular area where I lived a couple of years ago, I went door to door in my neighborhood and then when I saw who voted, when I just happened to walk by, they didn't vote, so it's like I don't know, I think there should be more, like this man said, put stuff on the web site get people, the public, more involved with this, even just getting more people out to vote, getting people more interested in Town functions or what have you. I know I will for sure.
Mr. Archer: It's interesting, we were just informed that we lost Title I money and of course that's based on a Town's affluence as opposed to people living at the poverty line and since the last census, which of course was a decade ago, the Town had become so affluent that it doesn't qualify for Title I money, but we still argue about 1/10 of a mill rate increases. It's hard to fathom.
Mr. Chicowski: Even the people who don't pay taxes that live in apartments, they should be the ones that don't have anything to lose, you know, pay more taxes, have less service, they still don't vote.
John Bongiorno, 1254 Litchfield Road, Watertown, CT 06795
Mr. Bongiorno: It's good to see the degree of passion from the individuals who come out to speak. It's good to see people come out when they have a particular passion. I wish people would realize that there's a lot more passionate things going on in Town all the time, instead of just when one issue happens to trip a lot of issues.
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June 2, 2003
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Let me make a couple of quick points on pay for play. I've been an athlete my whole life. I've probably learned more from athletics than pretty much so anything except maybe my grandparents and my parents, and I find it, understand, after reading through the budget, I understand why I think they need to do it, but I think that it's almost discriminatory to the point where a lot of resources go towards children who might not be able to learn at the same rate as other children, etc., but we're automatically writing off the people who need athletics to get them to go to school as some of these other people mentioned. That's a driving force for a lot of kids, especially at that age, mentor coach, etc. Those are important and I'm sure everyone grew up that had a coach that either kicked their butt around a softball or soccer field, or grabbed them by the ear and dragged them up the bleachers and told them to run around the field for an hour and a half, but no matter how you put it, making one select group of individuals pay for something when other groups get them for free, I really have a problem with that, that bothers me. That bothered me against the budget, but again I voted yes for the budget because I think it's important to get a budget to go through.
One of the things that I did think that we had discussed at one of the budget meetings - shared services. I don't understand why this is such a difficult thing to get to do. I'm sure I don't understand it because I don't know what's going on in the background, but for me, for the Town to take a big truck and plow the parking lots off as part of the first route instead of beating up the new pickup trucks to plow the larger parking lots at the schools, I don't see why that can't be arranged, instead of buying newer trucks, you know using the leased vehicles, why we can't share, have them help the Park and Rec and try and get these things taken care of in a more timely manner. I know there are other services, financial services, business director, management services, and things, I think now would be a really excellent time to accelerate that and try to make that happen, to try and integrate the two groups more, I think it would help people get along better and it would certainly make the two budgets meld together. Like you just said, the Finance Committee met, and they chopped everything from the Town budget, okay? But anybody who knows anything about the world, if you stand still long enough you'll end up in another place, so you don't want to stand still for too many years with a budget even though the economy is bad, you do need to move forward in some manner, otherwise you end up kind of where we are now, stuck with projects that we couldn't finish. Why? Because we couldn't get them, because we kept chopping, chopping, chopping. I think that it's important for people to realize that there is a lot of other issues that we could work on.
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June 2, 2003
Page 16
One of them is Turkey Brook. I know there is a lot of upset people about Turkey Brook, it didn't get done, it didn't get finished, we lost the funding. There's a lot of things in the State of Connecticut that can happen to help Turkey Brook. One of them is you can look at the headwaters of Turkey Brook. I happened to do a site walk a couple of weeks ago. It's a site where there are some issues with Turkey Brook and it's in the headwaters of Turkey Brook and the particular site has shrunk the brook size almost in half. Well if you took something that's 15 feet and make it 7 or 7.5, and the water is deeper, the water flows faster and you have problems downstream, so it's possible that maybe we could gather together and maybe take a couple of our commissions and we could work together to solve some of those issues by utilizing some of the free services in the State of Connecticut, and believe it or not there are actually still a few around. One of them is Litchfield County Conservation and NEMO, which is sponsored by UConn, and I've been trying to get some help on some of these issues, but it would be helpful if the Town Council would consider writing a letter or something and asking Inland/Wetlands or even to Meredith to see if they could get some help, and they could come down and evaluate the headwaters and that might alleviate some of the issues on the bottom end.
Mr. Archer: You can forward that information to Meredith.
Mr. Bongiorno: Yea, I'll send her an email. I will gladly help Doug if he wants to get that stuff on the Internet. I'll come down and meet with him to get the Minutes on the Internet, as long as it's not a technical disclaimer problem and it's just time, I'll gladly sit with him and help him and figure out how to get the stuff into Word or a document that's read only so that everybody could have it, because it would save a lot of time and paper.
Ms. Robson: I appreciate that.
Mr. Bongiorno: I think that what we need to understand is we're getting ready to do your Plan of Development and I would very much like everyone who is here for pay for play to come to a meeting when they have one at Planning and Zoning, and all these things come together. It's not just why pay for play, or why the schools maybe have too many children, maybe they're not balanced, maybe we have too many older children, it's the fact that our Town is growing and growing and I think they should understand that it grows maybe at a rate that could be a little better controlled, and if they would come to some Planning and Zoning meetings and listen to some of these events and maybe partake in something that might not be on their end of Town, they would understand how these pay for play issues come up and how we ended up without our Title I money, because we've built some large subdivisions with some middle income housing and we haven't balanced it with business or elderly and this is how you get into these problems, and this why they should come and understand how the Plan of Development is going to be written, and understand how Planning and Zoning Works. Thank you.
Mr. Archer Closed Public Participation at 9:33 p.m.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 17
6. Minutes
A. Regular Meeting Minutes - May 19, 2003
MOTION: (Mr. Kane, sec. Mr. Hebert) to approve the Regular Meeting Minutes dated May 19, 2003 as presented.
Discussion: Ms. Adams: The Minutes state that I seconded a Motion, however I was absent from that meeting.
In Favor: Mr. Archer, Mr. Hebert, Mr. Kane, Ms. King, Mr. Primini, Mr. Rinaldi, Mr. Valenti, Mr. Wick
Opposed: None
Abstained: Ms. Adams (due to absence)
MOTION CARRIED (8-0-1)
B. Budget Public Hearing Minutes – April 23, 2003
MOTION: (Mr. Kane, sec. Mr. Hebert) to approve the Budget Public Hearing Minutes dated April 23, 2003 as presented.
Discussion: None
In Favor: Ms. Adams, Mr. Archer, Mr. Hebert, Mr. Kane, Ms. King, Mr. Primini, Mr. Rinaldi, Mr. Valenti
Opposed: None
Abstained: Mr. Wick (due to absence)
MOTION CARRIED (8-0-1)
C. Special Meeting Minutes - May 28, 2003
MOTION: (Mr. Kane, sec. Mr. Hebert) to approve the Special Meeting Minutes dated May 28, 2003 as presented.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 18
7. Sub-Committee Reports
A. Finance Subcommittee
Mr. Kane: We met on Wednesday, the 28th, worked diligently that night on the numbers as far a working on budget cuts or work to come up with a new budget figure based on the referendum being voted down earlier and then again we met tonight at 6:30. We do have a recommended proposal that we will vote on tonight with the full Council's understanding and work with tonight.
Mr. archer: And the intention is for that to go to vote on June 25th, correct?
Mr. Kane: Yes, that's on the Agenda as well. Then we will set a time, date, and place and we're shooting for June 25th as the next referendum.
A. Public Works Subcommittee
Ms. Adams: We met before the last Town Council meeting. We will meet again next Tuesday. Two of the items on the Agenda tonight are items we had been working on regarding additional revenues for the budget, so we'll be talking about those a little bit later. We had some people come and talk to us about problems with flooding and drainage, etc. We've scheduled a field trip at 6:00 next Tuesday to view 2 parcels. One has some sort of drainage issues and the second one was a request (Tape #1, Side A ended – may have missed some) non-profit I guess it's a swimming pool kind of therapy for mentally challenged people.
Mr. Archer: Open space, right?
Ms. Adams: No, she's going to be before P & Z and in initial talks have said that the road needs to be widened, and there's a lot of dollars involved here and whether or not there could be any help, so it's something we're going to take a look at and talk about and possibly bring forward to the Council, using possibly paving, we don't know, we need more information.
C. Ordinance Subcommittee
Mr. Wick: The Ordinance Committee hasn't met as such but the work on the Code of Ethics has been on-going. Meredith did send the draft that we prepared to CCM for comments, they have written comments back to us so now we are in a position to schedule another meeting soon to review those comments and come forward with a final draft.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 19
8. Chairman's Report
A. Correspondence
1. Letter from Tom Plungis, Regarding Guernseytown Farm Estates, dated May 20, 2003.
"May 20, 2003
Dear Council Members:
My questions for the Town Council of Watertown concern the proposed Guernseytown Farms Estates LLC Subdivision located off Route 63, aka Litchfield Road in Watertown. 22 acres will be donated to the Town by the developer for open space as required by Watertown's subdivision regulations for a recreation area. These 22 acres are located in wetlands and border the Watertown Fire District property which contains a reservoir which helps to supply Watertown with water. Due to the location of the 22 acres this land will have very limited recreational value for the public, especially for people who live in the 70 plus houses in this proposed development. I feel that to rely on the State and Town roads for recreational purposes is not only poor planning, but is also dangerous and could prove fatal. Enclosed are pictures of youngsters taken below the proposed development near 898 Litchfield Road, coming from the Ledgewood Road development heading north on Litchfield Road toward the Citgo Station and only convenience store in the neighborhood. It is a common sight occurring more often to see youngsters on skateboards pushing their way up and down the highway using the yellow center line for guidance. Where will these youngsters go after the store owner asks them not to play in his parking lot? Can the State and Town Statutes be changed to make useful land mandatory for recreational purposes before this proposed development is approved by the Inlands/Wetlands Commission? Thank you very much for your consideration.
Very truly yours,
Tom Plungis"
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 20
2. Letter from the Government Finance Officer's Association regarding Certificate of Achievement.
"From: Government Finance Officers Association
Addressed to the Town Manager:
We are pleased to notify you that your comprehensive annual financial report for the fiscal year ended June 30, 2002 qualifies for a Certificate of Achievement for Excellence in Financial Reporting. The Certificate of Achievement is the highest form of recognition in governmental accounting and financial reporting and its attainment represents a significant accomplishment by a government and its management. The Certificate of Achievement plaque will be shipped to Mr. Frank J. Nardelli, Jr., Finance Director".
B. Facts and Fallacies
Mr. Archer: Mr. Walton of W.O.T.A. has suggested that perhaps instead of binding arbitration we need "binding concessions". Of course binding arbitration is something that is based in law, and binding concessions is something that is based only in his mind. None of us on the Board or the Council are particularly happy with the binding arbitration laws and that was summed up in a resolution that we passed at the last regular meeting, and that was sent off to our Legislators up at the Assembly. We're not happy with that and we're also, in fact the Board of Education and Town Council, since this came up during Public Participation I'll address this again, the Board of Education and Town Council both voted against the teacher's contract despite what anyone wants to write in the letter section of our local paper, both of us voted unanimously against that contract, but it was awarded to them anyway. So since this is something that came out of the legislature and not from us. Perhaps the W.O.T.A. membership's time could be better spent going after the legislature instead of spending their time blaming local officials for a law they did not enact and do not support.
The second thing is that the W.O.T.A. leadership has recently displayed a new talent, which I can only describe as clairvoyance. They suggested that by having a one question budget referendum the Council intended to deflect attention from the binding arbitration that the teachers were awarded, and this again from a meeting that they did not attend, so not only were they not privy to their discussion, but somehow they seem to know our intentions, so I thought this fascinating new talent of theirs could maybe be put to better use by predicting what level we should lower the mill rate increase to get a budget to pass, or maybe they could predict how much the State is not going to give us this year, which of course would help us to put the budget together as well, or I guess maybe they could just join the circus.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 21
C. Other
Mr. Archer: I had the opportunity recently, I spent the last couple of weeks meeting with nearly every small business owner in Town, (inaudible) meeting with them personally. I found them to be pleasant, hardworking people. Many of them are residents of the Town as well, and they contribute to the Town in a number of ways. If they're a resident of the Town they pay taxes, if they own a business in Town they pay taxes on that too, and they also provide local jobs, so the next time you're thinking of going out shopping, before you go to the mall in Waterbury think of some of our local businesses in Town and try to keep as much of your money in Town cause these people deserve it.
9. Action Items
A. Consider Appointments to Boards and Commissions
The terms of various Boards and Commissions have expired or are expiring. Appointments must be made to fill these vacancies.
None
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Ms. Adams) to Add Agenda Item 9D1, Consider Setting the Ballot for Machine Vote on 2003/2004 Budgets.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to Add Agenda Item 9D2, Mary Barton versus the ZBA.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to Move Agenda Item 14, Adjournment, to Item 15 and make Item 14, Consider Department Head Non-Organizational Raises for Fiscal Year 2003/2004 effective July 1, 2003.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 22
MOTION: (Mr. Wick, sec. Ms. Adams) to Add Agenda Item 9D3, Consider requesting the appropriate parties to delay the paving of Overlook Avenue.
Discussion: None
In Favor: Ms. Adams, Ms. King, Mr. Primini, Mr. Rinaldi, Mr. Valenti, Mr. Wick
Opposed: Mr. Archer, Mr. Hebert, Mr. Kane
Abstained: None
MOTION CARRIED (6-3-0)
Ms. King: I wondered if there is an appropriate place, I believe Mr. LeBlanc was correct in the fact that we did not put on the record the terms of the Town Manager's contract that we approved at the previous meeting, and I wondered if there was some way to put them on the record at this meeting. We have already voted on them, but whether we could do that, put them in public?
Mr. Archer: Why don't we take a recess at the end of 9 and we'll figure that out.
B. Consider Fiscal Year 2003-2004 Fiscal Year Budget
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to approve the following budgets to be sent to Referendum:
Town General Fund $18,978,924
School General Fund $28,786,026
General Fund Total $47,764,950
Town Road Aid $ 74,670
Water Operations $ 1,270,507
Water Capital 224,000
Water Extension $ 101,500
Sewer Operations $ 2,114,239
Sewer Capital $ 67,300
Sewer Extension $ 164,500
Water and Sewer Debt $ 141,450
Crestbrook Golf Operations $ 883,003
Crestbrook Improvement Trust $ 68,790
Local Capital Improvement $ 161,071
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 23
Discussion: None
In Favor: Ms. Adams, Mr. Archer, Mr. Hebert, Mr. Kane, Ms. King, Mr. Primini, Mr. Wick
Opposed: Mr. Rinaldi, Mr. Valenti
Abstained: None
MOTION CARRIED (7-2-0)
C. Consider Setting Budget Town Meeting Date, Time, and Place for Fiscal Year 2003/2004
Mr. Nardelli: This item was put on the Agenda in error; it is not needed.
D. Consider Setting Date, Time, and Place for Machine Vote on 2003/2004 Budget
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Ms. Adams) to approve the Referendum Notice for the Machine Vote on the 2003/2004 Budgets as follows:
A Referendum of electors and citizens qualified to vote in Town Meetings of the Town of Watertown will be held on Wednesday, June 25, 2003, between the hours of 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. to vote on the approval or disapproval of fiscal year 2003/2004 budgets. Voting will be at the following polling places:
Heminway Park School, Heminway Park Road, Watertown, CT
Judson School, Hamilton Lane, Watertown, CT
Swift Junior High School, Colonial Street, Oakville, CT
Polk School, Buckingham Street, Oakville, CT
Persons qualified to vote in Town Meetings who are not electors shall vote at any of the above mentioned polling places.
Absentee ballots may be obtained at the Town Clerk's Office.
Discussion: Ms. King: This is the date, time, and place question, right?
Mr. Archer: Yes.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 24
Mr. Rinaldi: How many questions on the thing, or doesn't it say?
Ms. Adams: That's the next Item.
Mr. Wick: Why Wednesday and not the traditional Tuesday.
Mr. Nardelli: Swift Middle School is graduating that day.
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
D1. Consider Setting Ballot for Machine Vote on 2003/2004 Budgets
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) that the following budget question be placed on the voting machines as follows:
Shall the Fiscal Year 2003/2004 Town Budgets be approved?
The Town Council proposes:
A. Town General Fund $18,978,924
B. School General Fund $28,786,026
General Fund Total $47,764,950
C. Town Road Aid $ 74,670
D. Water Operations $ 1,270,507
E. Water Capital 224,000
F. Water Extension $ 101,500
G. Sewer Operations $ 2,114,239
H. Sewer Capital $ 67,300
I. Sewer Extension $ 164,500
J. Water and Sewer Debt $ 141,450
K. Crestbrook Golf Operations $ 883,003
L. Crestbrook Improvement Trust $ 68,790
M. Local Capital Improvement $ 161,071
Voters approving the question will vote "Yes" and those opposing the question will vote "no".
Discussion: If I'm correct, what he just said is that he's looking to put one question on the ballot?
Mr. Hebert: For the purposes of discussion.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 25
Ms. Adams: I'm going to stand by what I said the last time, I believe the budget should be two questions. I believe Randy's opinion gave us whatever question was asked, that opinion was correct, but did not apply in Watertown's case here, so I'm going to again vote two questions, separate Board and Town.
Mr. Rinaldi: I've always been a supporter of two questions and I'm going to stick with it. Again I feel it gives the voters the maximum amount of choice when it comes to a vote. On the other hand it doesn't lock us into where the cuts have to be, that's our decision after the fact, so for all the reasons I've stated last time and this time, I'm going to stay with two questions.
Mr. Hebert: I have to agree with my colleagues. I've never been in favor of one question. I believe the voters should be given opportunity to vote on both halves knowing full well that if one fails, they both fail, but it gives whoever is sitting at this table guidance as to where to go. I've always believed in that. I believe that Randy's opinion was correct for the question he was asked, however at the last meeting I did not like one question and I still don't like one question.
Mr. Kane: I agree with my colleagues as well that I am in favor of two questions versus one, however Randy's opinion, until it changes, our Town Attorney has an opinion on file that we have to do it this way and I think we have to follow our Town Attorney's opinion. The circumstances surrounding it may have changed or we can speculate on how we answer the question, but he did answer the question saying one. I just hate to go back against our Town Attorney, although I agree with Ray and everything everyone has said, the two questions I would prefer, but having the Town Attorney's opinion on the matter as one I have to stay with one.
Mr. Archer: I've always preferred the 2 questions myself, but I have to agree with Mr. Kane, that the current legal opinion we have says we should have one. Now we have asked him to go revisit that again because there are some questions about whether or not the question he was asked was the appropriate one for our particular budget situation, but until he comes back with a revised legal opinion, if he feels that's necessary, I would have to proceed as we did before, and just for the record we're not doing it to cover up binding arbitration.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 26
Mr. Wick: To address the concern about possible conflict with the Town Attorney's opinion, can we vote on two questions subject to a revisit by him of the issue, given what we're talking about with respect to the possibility that the Naugatuck example is not exactly comparable to what we're talking about here? Is that possible, to do it contingent?
Mr. Nardelli: Tomorrow morning the Town Clerk is going to have to get these ballots printed up, get to the printer, so she's waiting for the ballot, because the absentee ballots . . . .
Mr. Wick: So you're saying there's not enough time to do that?
Mr. Nardelli: That's correct.
Mr. Primini: I am in favor of the two question vote, but I have to agree with Mr. Kane and Mr. Archer, until we have further legal clarification on it we have to go with the one ballot question.
In Favor: Mr. Archer, Mr. Kane, Ms. King, Mr. Primini, Mr. Wick
Opposed: Ms. Adams, Mr. Hebert, Mr. Rinaldi, Mr. Valenti
Abstained: None
MOTION CARRIED (5-4-0)
D2. Mary Barton versus the Zoning Board of Appeals
MOTOIN: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to deny P & Z permission to appeal, if necessary, the case Mary Barton versus the Zoning Board of Appeals.
Discussion: Ms. Adams: Just a clarification – Mary Barton's name may be on this lawsuit, but she's working on behalf of the Planning and Zoning Commission, she's doing what they direct her to do.
Ms. King: I don't know whether it's appropriate, and that's why I'm going to ask rather than just do it, that the Planning and Zoning Commission and the Zoning Board of Appeals make one more attempt to meet together on this issue and resolve it without further litigation. I would make it as a motion separately or amend this, I don't know how people feel about it; I'd like to express our concern that we're not just slamming the door, we're saying we think . . .
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 27
Mr. Archer: Is that something you think we should express in a letter?
Ms. King: We could take a vote or send the Minutes.
Mr. Archer: Well we could amend the current motion to include that.
Ms. King: Sure that would be fine.
Mr. Kane: So it will be part of the Motion that . . . .
MOTION: (Ms. Kind, sec. Ms. Adams) to amend the Motion to add that the Council send a letter to the Planning and Zoning Commission and the Zoning Board of Appeals asking that they attempt again to mediate this issue.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
Discussion: Mr. Wick: In listening to some of the facts presented about this, I'm really pretty confused and I think we might be premature in making a motion like this. I like the amendment and I think that maybe if the amendment was all we did at this time, I think we would be proceeding at an appropriate pace, but I think if we deny something that hasn't even been asked, I think we're perhaps overreaching and I don't think we should do that.
Ms. King: Just in response to that, I just feel very strongly that I didn't need to wait for the question to be asked, that it's an issue that I've heard a great deal about, and rather than have Planning and Zoning waste their time asking us, we go on record saying that we believe this is not the way to go and that's where we are. So it wasn't a matter of not giving them a chance. I just figured for me, I'm giving them my opinion right up front here, don't bother to ask.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 28
Mr. Valenti: Throughout the budget process we've talked about civic-mindedness and cuts, and what do we get for our dollars and votes and all this and I guess my addition to this would be I'm fully supportive of Jean's friendly amendment to the original motion because they, too should, in a civic minded matter, sit down and try to resolve this because I think the Townspeople as are we, we're paying for attorneys on both sides. I think that's ridiculous.
In Favor: Ms. Adams, Mr. Archer, Mr. Hebert, Mr. Kane, Ms. King, Mr. Primini, Mr. Rinaldi, Mr. Valenti
Opposed: Mr. Wick
Abstained: None
MOTION CARRIED (8-1-0)
D3. Consider Requesting the Appropriate Parties to Delay the Paving of Overlook
MOTION: (Mr. Wick, sec. Ms. Adams) to request the appropriate authorities to delay the paving of Overlook Avenue until the issues of the potential contract breach has been thoroughly resolved.
Discussion: Ms. Adams: I can remember seeing a legal opinion on this with the A24 and I can't find it, from Randy. Can you refresh our memory on that? Oh you've got it? Thank you.
Mr. Wick: I think as a result of what we did at our last meeting, A24 is going to be requested of P & Z on Wednesday so we'll have that new information. Also it may be inevitable that the road will be paved, but right now in my mind there is still some uncertainty about whether the original objective can be met without paving, and until all that uncertainty is rung out of the system, I really think it would be a shame to just go ahead and do it. I think there is very little to be gained by trying to turn over as many rocks as we can, I mean there's very little to be lost.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 29
Mr. Rinaldi: I have to agree with Dick 100%. I think that there are still some unresolved issues, in my opinion and I think we should afford the people up there every opportunity to resolve this thing. We sent it back to Planning and Zoning and I think what they're trying to do is get some relief in the interim until we get all our information back, and I see no problem with doing this, just for the sake of gathering the rest of the information before we put this thing to bed permanently. I have no problem as an interim fix, until things are resolved.
Mr. Archer: So ultimately we want to spend legal money to go review a contract that's already been signed, sealed and delivered? Is that what we want to do?
Mr. Rinaldi: No, that's not the way I understood it.
Mr. Archer: He said that the contract is flawed and . . . .
Mr. Rinaldi: He wanted to send a letter to I think Waterbury and Water & Sewer to delay paving until this Planning and Zoning stuff is resolved . . . .
Mr. Archer: No, he wanted to do it until the illegal contract, as he put it, is resolved. He says that the contract is null and void.
Ms. King: I've listened to these presentations and Mr. Ceniccola's (inaudible) this and this and this and then he says this proves this, and at the end I don't agree with him that the contract is illegal or flawed, however I do agree still that we have this thing about A24 and that's why I pulled out this memo from Randy, cause I was very confused about this again, about I think it seems to me that a lot of both said yes it was required, and no it wasn't required, and so we've asked them for that and it does seem fair to wait to pave the road until we resolve that, and that's not agreeing one way or the other that the contract is flawed or whatever, it's just saying we're in the middle of, he asked a question, it doesn't seem fair to not have the answer to the question and have someone move in with pavers and say well that we were wrong, they were wrong, well we shouldn't have paved it but it's too late, that's not fair either.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 30
Mr. Hebert: I do believe at the beginning of this that it was explained that it's a Waterbury paper street.
Ms. King: No, it's a Watertown paper street.
Mr. Archer: It's a combination, half and half.
Mr. Hebert: It's a combination paper street that they put the sewer lines, the Bunker Hill Disconnect down, and that Waterbury wanted to pave it and we asked them once not to pave it, and they're saying no, we're going to pave it, so they narrowed the road down. We have a contract. I mean . . . .
Ms. King: We sent it back to P & Z. If we hadn't done that I might have felt differently.
Mr. Archer: Frankly I think that's a formality.
Ms. King: We shouldn't have done it. I mean we sent it back and asked for their opinion. Having done that we should follow through on it.
Mr. Archer: So they're meeting on Wednesday and they're going to talk about that.
Ms. King: I think so.
Mr. Archer: And so we're going to write a letter and it's gong to get to the appropriate authorities and they're going to shut it down before Wednesday. The letter probably won't even get there by Wednesday.
Ms. King: (Inaudible) paves. She can call someone up.
Ms. Robson: If that's your decision, we'll certainly make sure that that word gets to the contractor, and to Waterbury. Let me just clarify one thing, the A24 issue is, the abridged version is that we do need A24 approval, but it's for different reasons that have been expressed. It has to do with the ownership of the road.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 31
Ms. Adams: Watertown does not own Overlook Avenue, however we have public right of way.
Ms. King: Don't we own it?
Mr. Rinaldi: We own it, don't we?
Ms. Adams: No.
Mr. Hebert: It's a Waterbury paper street.
Mr. Archer: Technically no one does.
Ms. Robson: Because it was done so long ago, there's no deed.
Ms. Adams: 1911.
Mr. Valenti: Just before we vote on this, which I would urge we do soon, I want to know what a yes vote would mean and what a no vote means. If I vote yes I am voting to abate paving until we get word back form P & Z.
Mr. Archer: A yes vote would be to delay paving.
Mr. Primini: Do we really have any control over the paving issue according to the contract?
Ms. Adams: Yea, what supercedes what?
Mr. Archer: I don't think having then delay it for 48 hours is going to be a violation of the contract.
Mr. Rinaldi: We have control over anything we say we have control over. In the past, I've been on this Council 10 years, we've done a lot of things, let me tell you, (inaudible) that's what we're here for, that's our job. I mean we could wait and get stuff back from P & Z, or you don't have to wait, I mean this is our option. We can do pretty much what we want. We can choose to ignore the contract, we have to suffer the consequences after, but we can still choose to ignore it.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 32
Mr. Primini: That's the issues I have, are we going to get out butts in a sling by voting against this and then get ourselves in another lawsuit?
Mr. Rinaldi: I don't think so. We're asking for a temporary abatement until we get this issue resolved. We're not asking for them to not pave it, we're not asking them for any monumental (inaudible).
Mr. Primini: But this has been going on for quite some time and the issue was whether we're going 52 feet or I believe we're down to 24 feet now, and the issue was whether the road was going to be 5 feet from the guy's house or approximately 18 feet which is a big difference. I think we're just getting to the point where we have to make a decision one way or the other, and I think we're just delaying the inevitable by bogging this down.
Mr. Rinaldi: That's right we can make a decision any way we want. That's what I'm trying to tell you.
Mr. Primini: Personally I just want to avoid another lawsuit. I don't think it's something we can afford again.
Mr. Rinaldi: I don't think you're going to get a lawsuit out of this.
Mr. Valenti: To make it easier, whenever this vote is called, I would suggest for the convenience of Lynn that we do a show of hands or something cause the votes have not been in a predictable manner tonight and she's had to call them several times so you might want to do it by either roll call or show of hands, just so it's easier for Lynn.
Mr. Kane: I agree with Mr. Primini that we have been delaying this issue long enough, and although I am sympathetic with Mr. Ceniccola and the residents, we've had conversations, we've had letters, we've gone back and forth with Water & Sewer, with the City of Waterbury, and the contract stipulates paving and I think we shouldn't delay it any longer.
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 33
In Favor: Ms. King, Mr. Rinaldi, Mr. Valenti, Mr. Wick
Opposed: Ms. Adams, Mr. Archer, Mr. Hebert, Mr. Kane, Mr. Primini
Abstained: None
MOTION FAILED (4-5-0)
E. Consider an Appropriation for Tax Refunds
The Tax Refund line item has been depleted due to Council approved refunds.
RESOLUTION
WHEREAS, Taxpayers have applied for Tax Refunds pursuant to Section 12-129, Refund of Excess Payments, and
WHEREAS, the Tax Collector recommended that the refunds be made in accordance with the provisions of Section 12-129; and
WHEREAS, in order to refund taxpayers who have been approved for their refunds, monies must be appropriated into the budget line item to expend the funds.
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Council appropriates $3,982 to line item 010-50341-043-0102 from the General Fund.
Dated at Watertown, Connecticut this 2nd day of June, 2003.
Lee Archer, Chairman
Watertown Town Council
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to approve the Resolution appropriating the funds for Tax Refunds.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 34
F. Consider Tax Refunds
The Town Council is being asked to approve the refunding of the overpayment of property taxes.
RESOLUTION
WHEREAS, Taxpayers have made application for the property Tax Refunds in accordance with Section 12-129 Refund of Excess Payment; and
WHEREAS, the Tax Collector recommends that the refunds be made in accordance with the provisions of Section 12-129;
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Town Council approves the following Tax Refunds:
1,394 Boudreau, Kenneth R. Amount of Refund: $ 356.78
222 Tarbell Avenue Type: S
Oakville, CT 06779-9162
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Assessed Value Decreased
1,395 US Bancorp Amount of Refund: $1,770.77
P.O. Box 230789 Type: P
Portland, OR 97281-0789
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Account Deleted
1,396 Motorlease Corporation Amount of Refund: $ 87.38
1506 New Britain Avenue Type: M
Farmington, CT 06032-2312
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Account Prorated
1,397 Motorlease Corporation Amount of Refund: $ 175.04
1506 New Britain Avenue Type: M
Farmington, CT 06032-2312
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Account Prorated
1,398 Motorlease Corporation Amount of Refund: $ 43.82
1506 New Britain Avenue Type: M
Farmington, CT 06032-2312
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Account Prorated
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June 2, 2003
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1,399 Motorlease Corporation Amount of Refund: $ 76.30
1506 New Britain Avenue Type: M
Farmington, CT 06032-2312
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Account Prorated
1,400 Motorlease Corporation Amount of Refund: $ 76.30
1506 New Britain Avenue Type: M
Farmington, CT 06032-2312
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Account Prorated
1,401 General Electric Capital Amount of Refund: $132.35
540 West Northwest Highway Type: M
Barrington, IL 60010-3051
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Account Prorated
1,402 Motorlease Corporation Amount of Refund: $132.35
1506 New Britain Avenue Type: M
Farmington, CT 06032-2312
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Account Prorated
1,403 Motorlease Corporation Amount of Refund: $ 67.06
1506 New Britain Avenue Type: M
Farmington, CT 06032-2312
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Account Prorated
1,405 Belfiore, Janet M. & James S. Sr. Amount of Refund: $112.10
16 Wheeler Street Type: R
Watertown, CT 06795-5252
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Veteran Exemption Applied
1,406 DeRosa, Lawrence F. & Harriet P. Amount of Refund: $112.10
28 Ball Farm Road Type: R
Oakville, CT 06779-0000
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Veteran Exemption Applied
1,413 Spagnoletti Landscape Amount of Refund: $247.80
163 Chipman Street Type: M
Waterbury, CT 06708-0000
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Account Deleted
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June 2, 2003
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1,414 Spagnoletti Landscape Amount of Refund: $ 61.85
163 Chipman Street Type: M
Waterbury, CT 06708-0000
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Account Deleted
1,415 DeRosa, Lawrence F. & Harriet P. Amount of Refund: $106.02
28 Ball Farm Road Type: R
Oakville, CT 06779-0000
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Veteran Exemption Applied
1,416 DeRosa, Lawrence F. & Harriet P. Amount of Refund: $110.52
28 Ball Farm Road Type: R
Oakville, CT 06779-0000
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Veteran Exemption Applied
1,417 Belfiore, Janet M. & James S. Sr. Amount of Refund: $110.52
16 Wheeler Street Type: R
Watertown, CT 06795-5252
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Veteran Exemption Applied
1,418 Belfiore, Janet M. & James S. Sr. Amount of Refund: $106.02
16 Wheeler Street Type: R
Watertown, CT 06795-5252
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Veteran Exemption Applied
1,419 Belfiore, Janet M. & James S. Sr. Amount of Refund: $ 96.12
16 Wheeler Street Type: R
Watertown, CT 06795-5252
REASON FOR REFUND: Per Assessor, Veteran Exemption Applied
TOTAL FOR ALL REFUNDS: $3,981.20
Dated at Watertown, Connecticut this 28th day of May, 2003.
Lee Archer, Chairman
Watertown Town Council
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to approve the resolution for Tax Refunds.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
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Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 37
G. Consider Transfers
Town Council authorization is required for the transfer of departmental funding between line items.
RESOLUTION
WHEREAS, expenses in the 2002-03 fiscal year require the transfer of funds:
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, by vote of the Watertown Town Council, that the following actions are taken relative to the transfer of funds:
GENERAL FUND
AMOUNT: $3,800 NO: 1
FROM: 010-50323-034-0000 – Street Lighting, Utilities/Electric
TO: 010-50310-030-0470 – Engineering, Consul. Town Engineer
RASON: Artillery Road relocation property maps
AMOUNT: $2,6500 NO: 2
FROM: $1,500, 010-50355-032-0000 – Snow, rentals Construction Eqpt.
FROM: $1,100, 010-50319-032-0000 – Snow, Vehicle Maintenance
RO: 010-50411-031-0689 – Highway, Signs & Rails
REASON: Guard Rail Installation
Dated at Watertown, Connecticut this 2nd day of June, 2003.
Lee Archer, Chairman
Watertown Town Council
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to approve the Resolution authorizing the transfers as presented.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
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June 2, 2003
Page 38
H. Consider Settlement in the Matter of CL&P versus Town of Watertown
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to approve the settlement of CL&P versus the Town of Watertown by reducing the assessment of the easement to zero.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
Mr. Archer, Chairman, called a 5 minute Recess at 10:14 p.m.
Mr. Archer, Chairman, Reconvened the Regular Meeting at 10:25 p.m.
Mr. Archer: Under the Chairman's Report I had intended to add one more thing to charge the Public Works Subcommittee with coming up with a dollar amount for possible bonding of different Public Works projects. There are a number of project that by themselves are not worth bonding, and we usually try and put them in the budget every year, and then they get taken out of the budget every year, so amongst ourselves we decided that we should probably take a bunch of these projects, add them up, and turn them into one single bonding referendum, so if you could come up with a dollar amount for those projects that we discussed.
Ms. Adams: Maybe like a priority list too that just . . . .
Mr. Archer: That would be good, thanks.
10. Discussion Items
A. Discussion and Possible Action on Request for Bid Waiver for Computer Equipment for John Trumbull School
RESOLUTION
WHEREAS, Town Council approval is required for waiving the bid process and awarding a contract to the lowest responsive responsible bidder.
WHEREAS, Town Council authorization is required for any purchase exceeding $4,000 that has not been independently bid by the Town's purchasing Agent.
WHEREAS, the Executive Buildings Committee approved the purchase of Hewlett Package computer equipment and software; and
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WHEREAS, the Hewlett Packard Company, through a Master Price Agreement, offers equipment to Boards of Education at prices not available through any vendor or supplier.
NOW THEREFORE BE IT REOSOLVED that the Watertown Town Council hereby authorizes the Wavier of the Bid Process for the purchase of computer equipment offered by the Hewlett Packard Company to be supplied to the John Trumbull Primary School.
Dated at Watertown Connecticut this 2nd day f June, 2003.
Lee Archer, Chairman
Watertown Town Council
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to approve the Resolution authorizing the bid waiver for computer equipment for John Trumbull School to be provided by Hewlett Packard.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
B. Discussion and Possible Action on Back Charges for Refuse Hauling
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) that we increase the back charges from $30.00 a ton to $35.00 a ton, effective July 1, 2003.
Discussion: Mr. Kane: This was part of our budget analysis for fiscal year 2003/2004 in an effort to raise revenue. This figure has not been raised as far as charges to the haulers in about 6 or 7 years, if I'm correct. We feel that it is fair as well as a needed revenue source for the Town and for our budget, so that's why we recommend it to the Council.
Ms. Adams: The Public Works Subcommittee had reviewed this increase and approved it.
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Mr. Wick: I definitely think it's a step in the right direction and I'd like to point out that even at $35.00 the new proposed figure, the percentage of the total is still less than it was when we began doing this many years ago, and I think it's a good first step, I would prefer to see it go higher, even now, but certainly satisfied with some progress in the hopes that we would revisit this charge next year with the idea of getting the subsidy that is still existing even lower.
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
C. Discussion and Possible Action on Transfer Station Charges
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to approve the change in the Transfer Station fee schedule specifically for the demolition and construction material charge of $15.00 per cubic yard to $20.00 per cubic yard.
Discussion: Ms. Adams: This is something also reviewed by the Public Works Subcommittee. What had been done was kind of like a general information of different area towns and cities and what they were charging and we found we were a lot lower than our neighbors.
Ms. King: Is this the only thing you're changing now, is demolition and construction material on the attached sheet? Because the sheet dates from 1999, so everything else will stay the same? At one point you were discussing whether there were other charges that should be increased, I was surprised that it was only one, that was all. And do we limit how much, I mean, demolition and construction material, are there limits on that in the sense that how much people, when they ripped the roof off my house, I had someone take it away in a dumpster. I didn't think it could go to a regular place, it can't.
Ms. Adams: Was it asbestos?
Ms. King: No, that wasn't it. It's just quantity or the size of it. I wonder if our Town had become a site where people were bring demolition and construction material from all kinds of places.
Ms. Adams: No, only from our Town.
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Mr. Primini: One of the issues we're been having with that, like you said with a roofing job, roofing shingles will be a lot heavier than typically some other construction debris, that's something we're going to have to deal with eventually.
Ms. King: Per cubic yard?
Mr. Primini: Yes. You might do some regular demolitions which would be like wood, sheet rock, or whatever which doesn't bear as much weight, but it takes up more space than the actual roofing shingles so we'll have to deal with that eventually.
Ms. King: Now that I'm reading it, it says no contractors, so the contractors can't take it there anyway, he has to take it someplace else. It's only if I'm ripping the shingles off myself.
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
D. Discussion and Possible Action on Parking Ticket Fines
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to approve the list of parking ticket revenue increases as recommended by the Police Commission.
Discussion: Mr. Valenti: I read a story, I think it was in last week's Republican American. The First Selectwoman in Harwinton, I don't know if the State Police, yea, and speeding, if the State Police ticket someone speeding in Harwinton they automatically tack on a Town ticket and that allows the Town to keep all that revenue. I don't know if that's something we can or want to explore. I don't know how often State Police in this Town write tickets, but I thought it was interesting and might be worth discussion.
(Inaudible).
Mr. Valenti: I don't know if that will go nowhere, but . . . .
Mr. Archer: I thought the centralized infractions bureau, the whole point was to take that away from the Town collecting that, so it's sort of like, these things probably go in cycles. Dick, do you want your subcommittee to look into that, to see if it's even possible to do?
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Mr. Wick: Sure.
Ms. Robson: I can, if you want to send it there, that's fine. I could probably make a quick check.
Mr. Wick: That would be better. I see there's a proposed increase in every item except parking in a bus top, and that leads me to ask is that possibly a typo, should there have been an increase there, similar to the others?
Ms. Robson: I don't know the answer to that.
Mr. Wick: Can we suggest an increase similar to the others?
Ms. Robson: Can we just check with the Police on that issue as well.
Ms. Adams: There are other suggestions to increase fees in this memo. Maybe we might want to consider them on our next meeting, since it's not on our Agenda, sporting for dogs, and fingerprint for possessions, (inaudible) weapon permits, things like that.
Mr. Nardelli: I talked to Deputy Chief Gavallas about those and he said they're a nominal amount of revenue we would obtain from that. I was looking in the same direction as you were.
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
(Tape #2, Side A ended – may have missed some).
E. Discussion on Building Permit Valuations
Ms. Robson: This really doesn't require action by the Town Council. It's just a clarification because there were some questions raised. The building permits themselves are not going up, and that's what would require Town Council action. This is just the valuation for the building permit items and the Building Official is able to make those determinations by himself under the code. There is no action on your part required.
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F. Discussion on Revision of Economic Development Commission Ordinance
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Ms. Adams) to refer the revised Economic Development Commission Ordinance to the Ordinance Subcommittee for review and recommendation.
Discussion: Mr. Rinaldi: Are you actually creating the Economic Development Commission as it says here? I'm asking you this for a very specific reason.
Ms. Robson: There is an ordinance that exists, this is to revise it because of the issues with quorums.
Mr. Rinaldi: This doesn't say revise; it says create. This happened about 9, 10 years ago, and if you're going to, in fact going to create one, you have to first of all get rid of the old resolution, you have to discard it and then you have to accept the new resolution, and if you're recreating the thing you've got to get everybody out of there and start all over again with all new faces. I was on there when they restructured it.
Mr. Archer: So do we want to amend this that there's a caveat that we changed the language here, that we want to Table this until next week and revisit it after we get something (inaudible).
Ms. Adams: Send it, they can come back with it, they know the thoughts now.
Mr. Rinaldi: I would just be clear that you're revising, and you're not creating, unless you are creating.
Ms. Robson: You would end up repealing the old ordinance, but not affecting the Commission itself. The Commission is already in place, it's just a matter of changing memberships.
Ms. King: What are the substantive things that you're looking at in this that are different, because I don't have that one in front of me.
Ms. Robson: The alternates.
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Mr. Primini: There's an issue, I believe 2 members have some serious illnesses at this time, and for the last several months I believe that Commission has been unable to have a quorum, so we're looking into alternatives so they can have meetings, they will have quorum.
Mr. Archer: They're one of the few commissions that doesn't have alternates.
Ms. King: Can I ask that the Ordinance Committee also look at, and I don't know the answer to this, but the length of terms because you know sometimes we've been concerned with as to people get on there who are not active in one way and they have 5 year terms, and maybe that's too long for something like this. Maybe we want the opportunity for it to change more often than every 5 years, that's what really you're doing, cause you're putting people on for 5 year terms, and I don't know whether that's another thing to consider, but sometimes I think that's too long in our current day and age and how much we could ask of people, whether they should be 3 year terms.
Mr. Rinaldi: I don't know if they're still doing it, but at one time they used to stagger the terms so that a few left and a few came in, so you didn't really revamp the whole commission. And for that reason, the 5 years doesn't seem out of place for me, because that's the type of commission, and I know what you want to get out of it and I agree with you, you want them to go out and see what they can get for Watertown, as far as industry and some good ideas, you need some longevity, you need to be on there awhile to get together, you need a feel for what's going on there and I don't think 5 years is too long. You're not dealing with land use issues or anything where the clock is running, it's just a different type of atmosphere so I think 5 years is okay, that's my opinion.
Ms. Adams: Instead of 3, 4, and 5 years, you can go 1, 3, 5 so they're not up consecutively, they're up over staggered. There's options they have.
Ms. Robson: The other changes in this was a revision to the original ordinance, the language said we're hereby creating an economic development commission and they're initially charged with x, y , and z so that language is a little bit different because they're no longer initially charged, they're already in existence.
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Mr. Rinaldi: I don't know much about the EDC anymore, it's been ages since I've been there or been to any meetings, or anything else, but it seems to me that there was nothing really wrong with what we had in place, it's just that it wasn't working. That was a pretty active Commission at one time. They really went out and aggressively sought business and industrial parks, and anything they can get, and all of a sudden it kind of . . . . which is not to say it won't pick up again, but that's neither here nor there, I think it's something we should keep in the back of our heads as we go along. I think as you get more energetic people on there, who are more driven, and you'll get a lot more out of that Commission.
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
G. Discussion and Possible Action on Request from Board of Education to Change Town Council Meeting Regular Meeting Location
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to move all Regular Meetings beginning with September 2, 2003 through the December 15, 2003 Regular Meeting to the John Trumbull Primary School Media Center, with the exception of the October 20, 2003 meeting which will be held in the gymnasium due to a conflict.
Discussion: Ms. Adams: Can we do this since every November we meet we post our regularly scheduled meetings and our meeting places? Does our Charter allow for us to change our spot?
Mr. Rinaldi: The Board of Ed (inaudible).
Ms. Adams: The Board of Ed is different.
Ms. Robson: I'd have to check on that to be sure, cause I think as long as you publicize it . . . .
Ms. King: So long as you give notice you can.
Ms. Adams: Yea, but I thought the reason we did that was so people would know there would be meetings this day, this day, this was the place in a year in advance we were required.
Mr. Archer: We've changed locations before.
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Ms. Adams: Not on our regular meetings we haven't, we've done it for special meetings or public hearings, but not for regularly scheduled meetings.
Mr. Rinaldi: I could be wrong, but check that list, we do it for every board and commission, we have to do it. You check that and I believe all that's on there is the dates, not the place.
Mr. Archer: Date and time, I think so.
Ms. Robson: This is the Resolution that you adopted in November of last year. It does say shall meet on a regular basis at the Polk School Library . . . .
Mr. Rinaldi: Oh it does, I stand to be corrected.
Ms. Robson: I don't know how the others are worded, but I can check on that.
Ms. Adams: Can we Table this the, just to be sure, cause I don't know that you can.
MOTION: (Ms. Adams, sec. Mr. Kane) to Table.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
ORIGINAL MOTION WAS NEVER VOTED ON (TABLED)
Ms. King: One of the reasons that the Board of Ed, and we at some point, decided not to meet at John Trumbull, (inaudible) in the cafeteria or the auditorium, whatever it is, is because it's not really a pleasant place for public participation at all. They were going to have people sit up on the stage and the audience be down below and it's not that pleasant, and I don't know whether we could meet some other, cause one date you had to change it anyway.
Mr. Hebert: It's going to be in the Media Center.
Ms. King: Except for October 20th, we would meet in the gym. It's really not a pleasant place to meet, that's all I'm saying, maybe there is another place. There's all those lovely pods.
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Ms. Adams: If I may speak from personal experience, we did have one Board of Education meeting there, I was here, Phil Pelosi, was here, you could not hear him because the heating and cooling is so loud.
Ms. King: This is the gym/auditorium, yea, I don't think it's a good place to meet, and since there is one time we have to have another place, we should see if we can find another place as long as we're changing it.
Ms. Adams: High School.
Mr. Archer: Like say, here.
Ms. Adams: It might be a moot point, we might not be able to change.
Ms. King: We would have to agree that we would pay the overtime for that meetings, that's the issue.
Mr. Archer: I know.
H. Discussion and Possible Action on Authorization to Sign Agreement for the Participation in the Workforce Investment Agreement
MOTION: (Mr. Hebert, sec. Mr. Kane) to approve the authorization to sign the agreement for the participation in the Workforce Investment Agreement as presented.
Discussion: Mr. Wick: This looks strangely familiar, I think we've looked at this one time before or something like it. And one concern I think we discussed was giving to the Executive Committee authority to bind us, who are not on the Executive Committee, or who are not permanent members of it, and I'm just concerned about what we might be getting ourselves into. Is it possible, do you know what's behind this and what's the downside is?
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Ms. Robson: Well sort of. I had the same concerns cause it does say in there that the Mayor of Danbury and the Mayor of Waterbury are basically the leads, they make those decisions and they select who is on that Executive Committee. There is another board that encompasses other representatives and we would have a representative on there, and I have the same concerns. Frankly what I think it comes down to is there is a service that's provided and I was supposed to get the numbers for what Watertown gets out of this and I did not get that information, but the fact of the matter is that there are individuals, and probably a good number of them at this point, that go and get services when they're unemployed and perhaps retraining or job or other types of job search support and so if we don't sign it, we don't get our residents, as I understand it, we're not going to participate in that, so I share your concerns, particularly in light of the situation that just occurred, and they have made some changes to try and avoid that, but I think what it comes down to is if we don't sign up for it, then we don't have the services available.
Mr. Hebert: We had this discussion the last time this came up and we had the guy from Naugatuck here, and we basically questioned for 30 minutes and then he said well, you're already a member, so we passed it.
Ms. Robson: Well I don't think you're automatically a member, I think you have to, I think they assume you will be. You are part of the region that this board covers, that's not a choice.
Ms. King: It's really just the Workforce Investment Fund, the labor department dollars that are coming to this region and how they are being used, and it's not binding us to put any money in of our own, or anything like that.
Ms. Robson: No, but we are party to a suit because of what happened in Waterbury which is likely not to have any impact, but the issue is we all sink or swim because of the mechanics of it.
Mr. Kane: There are about 30 or 40 other towns involved.
Ms. Robson: Right, apparently they broke the State up into different regions.
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
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I. Discussion and Possible Action on the Reuse or Sale of Griffin School
Mr. Archer: We need to make some sort of decision and give some direction to the Manager as to what we're going to do with that. I have a question right up front. There has been some suggestion that there is not and never was a completed bid package, and I have to take issue with that because I had one myself, about a year ago. I don't have it any longer, but I saw it, it existed, and I can't imagine how we don't have one anymore. I know Jean has said many times the bid package was complete and ready to ship.
Ms. King: And it was under Geoff Hulstrunk, was Chairing that committee and I believe it was prepared by the Manager and Mary Barton together. I saw drafts of it. I probably didn't keep one myself, but it certainly existed, and Mary would have it.
Ms. Robson: I didn't check with Mary; I didn't realize she was involved.
Ms. King: Mary was integral to putting it all together with the Manager.
Ms. Robson: How long ago was this?
Mr. Archer: Early August, 2001.
Ms. King: Just before the election. It was supposedly all ready to go, that's what we were told.
Ms. Robson: Okay, I'll check, I didn't realize she was involved.
Mr. Archer: So it's also been suggested that it would take a long time to put this bid package together, but if it already exists I think it would just need some updating, maybe the dates and recheck the appraisal.
Ms. Robson: Well the issue is we have a large number of bids to go out that are fiscal year sensitive; it would have to be out by June 30th, so it's just a matter of trying to get all of those done, and this is not necessarily fiscal year sensitive so we would put that off until the rest of them are done.
Ms. King: I could also ask Geoff Hulstrunk if he still has his, that might help too.
Ms. Robson: If it's a matter of just changing dates and amounts, we probably could do that very quickly, but that wasn't my understanding.
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Mr. Archer: Anyone who helped put it together should be able to come up with it very quickly despite what they may say. Anyone want to weigh in on this further in public, on the reuse or sale of Griffin School?
Ms. Adams: Back in January or February of this year we had a public hearing regarding the use of facilities and the senior tax break. We got a petition with over 1,000 signatures that asked us to look at using it for a community center/town offices. At that point in time you had said to Valerie that we would be looking to have multiple hearings to decide the use of something like this. I think before the Council takes any action we should have a public hearing on this, give the people an opportunity to come forward and tell us what they want us to do. My own opinion is based on that petition there, is that we give an opportunity, put a reasonable package out to the people and let them vote on it and see what they say. If it goes down, then we sell it, but give the people an opportunity. 1,000 signatures on an opinion, that's pretty strong, pretty powerful for that to come before us.
Ms. King: I understand what Elaine is saying; I'm not sure a public hearing is the answer because the thing that I felt when people came here was that most of them believed that this was a free building that came to us with no cost to do it, that it wouldn't be much of anything, that we could just have this building and we should use it. One of the issues I have is that I don't think the building could be used for many things without money being put into it, that's just up front thing, but the on-going support of the building, if you were going to use it for a recreation center, something like that, when we can't get support for keeping the buildings that we actually have human beings in cared for. So I think if we have an opportunity and people who are interested in buying this building, that we should move to consider that and see that as a way that funds could come into the Town that might perhaps be used for another building or something like that, but for rehabbing another or putting something into another one, but this was the building that seemed to me was the least likely in the rankings of buildings of ones that would be used, I'm not certain about that but that's how I recall it, and if we have people who are interested in buying it and putting it on the tax rolls, I think we should move on that.
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Mr. Rinaldi: One of the things I remember hearing over the years was we had, the Town owns land and it owns buildings, and we don't do anything with them. They're costing us money, they're a liability, I've heard the whole gamut of excuses and I've heard even W.O.T.A. wrote letters complaining that we weren't making any money off these buildings. And realistically if we go into some sort of community center, you're going to have to fix the building to some extent, not elaborately, and it will be a cost to the Town. You have to staff this thing, run it. I agree with Elaine, have a few public hearings maybe. If people really want to do that, that's one thing, then we do that, but I think once you put some hard facts out there, and tell them . . . . here we are in the middle of a budget crisis, and we're going to add more expenses for people to oversee this, maintain the building. God knows you have to insurance, keep it lighted, heated, it will cost the Town quite a bit of money, and I don't want to give these groups any more fuel to say that we're not getting any revenue out of these buildings, we're not getting revenue out of the land that we own, etc. Just something to reflect on, that's all.
Mr. Hebert: I'd love to see the building renovated, Town offices put in there or a community center if there was somebody who was going to step forward with the money to do this. I'd say great. It's not going to happen. We've cut a number of proposals and drawings and issues with the buildings and it's going to cost a lot of money. We're in a budget crunch; we don't have it. If we did it would be great, but in my opinion we should sell it and get the income for the Town and then move on cause we still have one other building to deal with after that, but at least one of them would be taken care and we'd get some money back for it.
Mr. Archer: I think the appraisal was $435,000. I think someone came to the podium and said I'll give you $400,000 for it right now, that will buy a lot of community center.
Mr. Kane: I agree with Ray Hebert that ideally we would love to have community centers and offices in one of those buildings, but I think right after we had that public hearing we had a tour of the vacant buildings and we saw firsthand the kind of work that needed to be done on both of those properties, and more so at Griffin, and I too agree that we have an opportunity, we've had citizens come here week after week asking us what we're going to do with the building, and rightly to, and it's about time we stepped forward and say we looked at all the different facets, we put these things out there, now we find that it would be cost prohibitive to do something, so we need to make a sale, and as Ray said, move on and hopefully put that money into the current budget analysis that we have, because we could use the funds.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 52
Ms. King: The one other thing is that by using a process of requesting proposals, we certainly still have the opportunity should there be several people who are interested in the building to look at alternatives and see what we find might be the best use for the Town given what we've heard from people in public hearings. We have the option of making decisions with some more information provided to us by actually getting proposals from people about what they would use the building for. That gives us really hard and fast, solid information. We're not going to get that until we get requests out there.
Mr. Archer: I say this to all due respect to the people who got the signatures because they deserve credit for all the work they went through; it takes a lot to get 1,100 signatures, but one person came up and said why does money always have to be an issue? And they said why couldn't we form a community group and we can go in and paint it and do the floors and everything else, and I said great, do you want to help do that, and she said well I'm really busy but it's like the little red hen, nobody wants to make the breakfast but everybody wants to eat it. Everybody wants a community center, and I want a community center, Ridgefield has a beautiful community center, a beautiful old mansion that was donated by someone, and it was in great shape when the Town got it, which is a wonderful thing, but we don't have that. Nobody is swooping in to renovate Griffin for us for a couple million dollars and I just, it's going to sit there and cost money, and get windows broken, as Leo said, and at some point we're going to be bulldozing like we did with the one out here, so before we do that, while it still has some value . . . . when we had that public hearing as well, we didn't know that the State was going to short us $1,200,000 either and I think the responsible thing to do is use it as revenue frankly.
Mr. Rinaldi: You said people offered to go in and parents will do the painting and fix the floors and stuff, that's a good thought and it comes from the heart, but it will never work. As soon as they go in there with a buffer the Unions will slap all kinds of grievances against them because they're not supposed to be doing that. I've seen it happen in the Water and Sewer Department. They got the Workfare Program to come in and paint the place and they did a beautiful job and then they got a Union grievance slapped against them because that was someone else's job. All I'm saying is it's not as simple as they make it to be. There's always strings that come up, complications that make it a lot tougher and a lot rougher and a lot more expensive that you set out to do in the first place.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 53
Mr. Primini: I agree with Elaine and Paul. I don't see any harm in having another public meeting on it, at the same time we can be preparing bid waivers, but at least give the opportunity for the citizens of the Town to determine what should be done with the building. At the last meeting we had quite a bit of people show up here on very short notice so I think if we gave proper notice and see what we come up with I think we could be doing both things at the same time. There were some good ideas that were expressed other than just the community center, but what are the actual costs involved? The other issue at the same time we should discuss Baldwin School and maybe put them both up at the same time.
Mr. Valenti: With all due respect, I hear what you're both saying, but I guess I agree with Jean. By moving forward in this manner we're not necessarily precluding anything else. If there is this vast groundswell of support to do this, it would nice for them to intimate that to us as the Council to support facilities and keeping buildings open by maybe passing this next budget, and then maybe I'll get a sense of maybe there will be support in the further if we did take this in inventory, but I think there's sometimes a disconnect between what people say to us when there's no price tag attached, and then when they sit down with pencil and paper, they might say I'm not supporting that all of a sudden. So I think we can still preserve options, but to put this together and go forward it will actually further preserve options.
Mr. Archer: We can make a decision with more knowledge if we had the responses from putting out the bid packages.
Mr. Rinaldi: If we decide for example to go with the community center, this would have to go out to referendum, am I correct?
Mr. Archer: Yes.
Mr. Rinaldi: Here's the point, if you go to a public meeting you might be misled by the people that show up, so for the dollars that we're talking about it would have to go out to referendum, so we should still move ahead with the bid package, right?
Mr. Archer: Yes.
Ms. Robson: I will speak with Mary.
Watertown Town Council
Regular Meeting
June 2, 2003
Page 54
J. Discussion and Possible Action on Turkey Brook and Sunnyside Avenue Projects
Ms. Robson: We met with members of the community in that area to try and get their concerns and input regarding the process because frankly there are 3 of us new to the projects. We got a great deal of information at that meeting and we've worked amongst ourselves and with the Project Engineer and Roy has made a number of phone calls to the State to try and get to a point where we know where we stand today so that you all can make a decision about where you want to be tomorrow. Just to summarize I'll ask Roy to give you a brief overview of the information that you have in terms of the estimates, but we have provided estimates to you regarding each piece as we see it of the project, meaning Turkey Brook, Sunnyside, and Skipper Avenue we've added because we believe that's an integral necessary part if we're going to be doing the work. We've added updated numbers, figures, costs so that you could see what would be necessary. We estimate that we need another $1,500,000 in order to be able to do Turkey Brook, Sunnyside, and Skipper Avenue.
Mr. Cavanaugh: We took a look at the Turkey Brook construction cost project. As you know Turkey Brook was supposed to be done in conjunction with the Sunnyside Avenue reconstruction to gave us the total package throughout the entire drainage corridor. We took what the low bid was for the Turkey Brook, originally $3,000,000, that contractor went out of business, so we took the next second lowest bid, which was a couple years old, we added an inflation factor for the last couple of years and then we came up with a new construction cost system at approximately $3,500,000. To that fee we added inspection, administration, engineering fees, construction engineering, the land rights, and (inaudible) easements on Skipper Avenue to come up with a new project cost which we think is going to go out the door for the Turkey Brook drainage improvement project approximately $4,500,000.
Now in conjunction with Turkey Brook we are supposed to be doing the Sunnyside Avenue reconstruction project. At this point the Sunnyside project is still on track with the State. Sunnyside is scheduled for design completion at this point, January of next year for possible construction, depending on the funding availability of 2004 construction season. For that particular project we're looking at $1,980,000, in round numbers $2,000,000 for the project. The construction costs with that are 80% Federal and 20% State. The Town of Watertown is acting as the consulting engineer on the Sunnyside reconstruction project and we have some specialty services for the culvert reconstruction which are out there.
Watertown Town Council
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