MINUTES

WATERTOWN TOWN COUNCIL

PUBLIC HEARING

JOHN TRUMBULL PRIMARY SCHOOL

MEDIA CENTER

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 2005, 7:00 P.= M.

PRESENT:      &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;          Elaine Adams (arrived at 7:07 p.m.)

&= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         Antonio Guerrera

= ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;         Robert Kane (arrived at 7:07 p.m.)=

&= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         Carl Mancini

&= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         Joseph Pawlak, Chairman

&= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         Suzan Plowman

&= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         Raymond Primini, Vice Chairman

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Paul Rinaldi

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Jack Walton

ABSENT:            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;      None

OTHERS PRESENT:      = ;      Meredith Robson, Town Manager

1.&nb= sp;        Convene Public Hearing - 7:00 P.M.

&n= bsp;

Mr. Pawlak, Chair= man, called the Public Hearing to order at 7:06 p.m.

=

Mr. Rinaldi, Vice= Chairman, read aloud the following Notice of the Public Hearing for the record:

NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING

Watertown, Connecticut

The Watertown Town Council will hold a Public Hearing on Monday, November 21, 2= 005, at 7:00 p.m. in the John Trumbull Primary School Green Pod Common Area, 779 Buckingham Street, Oakville, CT to hear public comment on the disposition of Baldwin School.

Dated at Watertown, Connecticut this 15th day o= f November, 2005.

   =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;              &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;

   =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;      Meredith S. Robson, Town Manager

   =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;      Town of Watertown

= Watertown Town Council

Public Hearing

November 21, 2005

Page 2

RETURN OF NOTICE

TOWN OF WATERTOWN

NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING

I = hereby certify that on November 15, 2005 I left a duplicate copy of the attached Notice of Public Hearing, Town= of Watertown, Connecticut, with Virginia Stewart, its Town Clerk to be held on November 21, 2005.

I = further certify that I caused a copy of said Notice of Public Hearing to be publish= ed in the REPUBLICAN AMERICAN on November 15, 2005, which newspaper has a substantial circulation in said Town.

I = further certify that on November 15, 2005, I caused to be set upon the signpost or other exterior places nearest the Office of the Town Clerk and all other pl= aces and signposts designated by the Town, a written copy of said Notice of Publ= ic Hearing signed by the Town Manager of the Town of Watertown.

I = further certify, that all the above acts were done at least five (5) days before the holding of the Public Hearing on November 21, 2005.

Da= ted at Watertown, Connecticut this 15th day of November, 2005.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;             = Meredith S. Robson, Town Manager

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;             = Town of Watertown

TOWN CLERK’S CERTIFICATION AS TO

NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING AND RETURN OF NOTICE<= /p>

I hereby certify that the attached Notice of Public Hearing and Notice of the forego= ing Return of Notice of Public Hearing are duly recorded in the records of the = Town of Watertown, Connecticut, and that Meredith S. Robson was Town Manager on = the date the Notice and Return of Notice were signed.

Dated at Watertown, Connecticut this 15th day of November,= 2005.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Virginia M. Stewart, Town Clerk

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Town of Watertown

            Mr. Pawlak: The floor is open for public participation and comment.

Watertown Town Council

Public Hearing

November 21, 2005

Page 3

<= /p>
            Jean King, 126 North Street, Watertown= , CT&nbs= p; 06795

<= /p>
            Ms. King: I live on the street on which Baldwin School is. I'm delighted that you're having t= his Hearing and that you're talking about reusing Baldwin School. I live on this street, I've lived = there for 27 years. I'm also Chair = of the Watertown Historic District Commission, but I'm not here in any way officia= lly representing them, but if you have any questions about how that fits into t= he District, because Baldwin School is part of the District, I'= d be happy to answer them. But as someone who has lived thee and looked at the building, I just had a few ide= as that I'd like to throw out.

<= /p>
            First of all it's a wonderful building,. It's a great, old building, but it's been very well kept. To my accounts, from what I've understood from people, it is one of the buildings that is pretty good in t= erms of heat and types of windows, a new roof, things like that. And the best thing we can do with = this building is to use it. And th= ere are all kinds of ways to use it. I'm not here to say you should use it in one way, sell it or not, bu= t to use it because one of the enemies of old buildings or any building is negle= ct and the way they get neglected is that people don't notice what's happening there.

<= /p>
            The other part I would say is please stop using it as a closet. It reminds me of the fact that I h= ave a third floor on my house and whenever nobody can decide what to do with something that's broken in the house we put it on the third floor. Now the last time I was at Baldwin School was a couple of years ago w= ith the Public Buildings Committee but I was horrified at the junk that was in there partly cause there was no need to put it anywhere. We can leave that at Baldwin School, old computers that are out of date, or whatever. Some of those may be gone.

<= /p>
            I'd like to suggest that I think it would be a great idea to use Baldwin for a couple of years for town offices if you need to use them while we wait to s= ee what's going to happen with Heminway Park.= I think that would be a totally appropriate thing to do. I also think that you should reall= y look at the opportunity for the park space and the grounds behind Baldwin. We're always looking for ball field space. There is room for at l= east one ball field. I know kids p= lay there all the time. They prac= tice Little League, and the fields are in pretty bad shape, but you can certainly fit a playing field back there and the Town owns it and there's parking. It also, the Baldwin property back= s up and can connect very easily to the Munson Park and the Munson House. There's a fence around= there now because when the kids were in school they didn't want anything to happe= n to the kids. It seems to me we c= ould open up the fence that leads into where the old schoolhouse is and make it = connect to the Munson Park and then you would have a lov= ely center Town park with a ball field.

Watertown Town Council

Public Hearing

November 21, 2005

Page 4

<= /p>
            The other thing that I wanted to say, that I read in the paper and one of the t= hings that I saw was that Lisa was going to be here tonight and talk about the Fo= od Bank, and I know we are often looking for places to have that, and that one= of the thoughts was being able to do that there. I've had a lot of experience as a = volunteer member of the Connecticut Food Bank Board and I also consult on food polici= es for the State of Connecticut<= /st1:place>. I'd like you really to consider as= a food bank issue whether the Town of Watertown should be in the business of running a food bank. In so many communities these thing= s are run by non-profits, by church based groups. Now it may be that having them hav= e the availability, a place to keep some food in Baldwin School, we'd let someone come forward to do that.&= nbsp; We have a really tight budget, I know how tight your budgets are in terms of being able to do things, and maybe if you were able to see, gee you could use the space in Baldwin School, where there were refrigerators at one point that you might be able to get someone else to take on that responsibi= lity and let the Town focus on some other things. It's not that the people in this T= own don't need a food bank, I don't mean that, but I'm not sure it's appropriat= e (inaudible) by Town government. Those are= just my thoughts for the moment. I= f you have any questions about the Historic District part of this I'd be happy to answer them.

<= /p>
            Jim Petroccia, 22 Highmeadow Road, Waterto= wn, CT&nbs= p; 06795

<= /p>
            Mr. Petroccia: If you want to know some of the goo= d use, that's what the Agenda said, and I have a couple of suggestions. (A) elderly housing. It's recommended by many others, b= ut I do recommend that one. Also it could be a professional office building; doctors, lawyers, engineers, denti= sts, CPA's, whatever. Also as Park= and Rec has requested by Mrs. Carew, that ought to be considered. It could be used for some miscella= neous Town offices that are not generally in the Town Hall building.

<= /p>
            Lastly exception - not to be used as= a new Town hall for offices. It was rejected by the committee that was entrusted to make recommendations, of wh= ich I was one of them, we said it should not be used for a town hall. It was rejected by the Public Work Building Committee, which (inaudible) they said it should not be used for a Town Hall. It's not a buildin= g that lends itself to that use. I d= on't know if you have experience of moving to (inaudible) old house and you alwa= ys find out that you wish you had bought a new one and started from scratch, c= ause you run into all kinds of problems. It's pretty evident that's what you would do if you try to make almo= st a 100 year old building into a town hall.&nb= sp; That building was built when there was no electricity (inaudible), no cars, no telephone, I'm an engineer so I know sometimes you don't know what you're going to run into when you take a wall down or a partition. This should not be used or conside= red for a new town hall. As a mat= ter of fact they had Mr. Whittaker, who evaluated that building for a town hall in 2002, he came up with a price of about $7,000,000 to do that and he gave a comparison with a new building of $8,500,000 so you can see right there it's not worth trying to rehab a new building into town offices. Any other use is fine, but not, le= t it be a historic building, but keep the town hall out of there.

Watertown Town Council

Public Hearing

November 21, 2005

Page 5

<= /p>
            MaryAnn Rosa, Northfield Road, Watertown<= /st1:City>, CT&nbs= p; 06795

<= /p>
            Ms. Rosa: You might find it helpful, if you h= ave not read, to read the report that was done a few years ago. There was a committee appointed by= the Town Council, Mr. LeBlanc Chaired the committee, I served on the committee = and we investigated all of these potential buildings in Town that might be sold and/or used in some other manner; the Munson House, = Baldwin School, the Town Hall per say, etc. It dealt with costs, uses, potential occupancy, many different areas and there= was money and a lot of time spent on that report by the Town. You might find it helpful to incor= porate that into your considerations at this time.

<= /p>
            The other thing I might mention for what it's worth, there were some of us up a= t Watertown High School tonight thinking you m= ight be meeting there, and that's our fault because we didn't read where yon were meeting. But also Dave Hoffma= n, that's employed by the School Department, was there for several hours setti= ng up the sound system to be ready for you and have everything all set, and unfortunately he didn't realize that you weren't going to be meeting there. You might want to cons= ider, because that room is appropriate and all set up for sound and everything, m= eeting there as soon as you're able. Thank you for your consideration.

<= /p>
            Mr. Rinaldi: How long ago was that study done?<= /p>
<= /p>
            Ms. Rosa: About 4 or 5 years ago.

<= /p>
            Mr. LeBlanc: 4 years ago.

<= /p>
            Ms. Rosa: It wasn't that long that the infor= mation would be outdated, it would certainly be totally appropriate for size and u= sage and conditions. Thank you.

<= /p>
            Peter Tomsheck, Davis Street, Oakville, CT <= st1:PostalCode w:st=3D"on">06779=

<= /p>
            Mr. Tomsheck: I'm the Chairman of the Parks and Recreation Commission. I just= had a few comments and some recommendations for the use of Baldwin School. Right now the food bank, which is = under the auspices of the Park and Rec Department, has food in storage all over T= own. That would be a wonderful place ju= st to consolidate the food bank, if nothing else.

<= /p>
            Currently I did a little research before I came here tonight, I'm not as well prepare= d as I would like to be, you’re currently renting about 6,000 square feet = over at the mall. The building, according to the paper, is over 24,000 square feet. You're paying about $62,000 a year= for rents for the offices that are currently in that mall. You are paying to have that buildi= ng heated so that the pipes don't freeze.&nbs= p; This money would go a long way back into the budget, so not only Park and Rec, but some of the other organizations, Planning and Zoning maybe nee= ds a new copier, or whatever they need, if this could be accomplished.

Watertown Town Council

Public Hearing

November 21, 2005

Page 6

<= /p>
            It's fortuitous that I'm on the piggyback behind someone who just said there was= a study commissioned by the Town as to usage of the building. Maybe these things might be someth= ing to be looked into. There is also= a field back there, behind the school, it's not a regulation sized field, but= in the event that we use it as a quasi-community center, there would be recrea= tion available. Park and Rec has t= alked about having either an after school program or a program for the children in Town when there's a snow day or inclement weather day that the parents of t= he children could bring them to our community center, pay a set price, whateve= r it is, and not have to make other arrangements daycare-wise or whatever. Also a Town owned or Town run pres= chool might be a good idea up there since it's already set up with classrooms, an= d of course besides the offices, some meetings, I am not very familiar with the = building but again you're looking at 6,000 square feet; from all those offices over there could easily be rolled into the 24,000 square foot building that you = have available over there. The mon= ey you would be saving, that's just rent, I'm not talking utilities on the 60 some= thing thousand dollars you're paying in rents over there could be better spent by= the Town. I mean there is seed mo= ney to redo some of the rooms if you're not liable for those rents anymore, and ju= st talking from the Park and Rec side, obviously we'd like to see a community center or at least the food bank get consolidated over there. As far as I know that building is already handicapped accessible, it has lifts up to the second floor. It's not? Oh, I'm sorry, Heminway is, so that might be something that needs to be addressed if it was going to be made in= to a community center. But I'm sur= e that the report that they commissioned would have comments like that already in there, as far as the downside. I don't really see much of one. It appears to be in pretty good shape. It's held up these last 5 years all= by itself basically. I mean ther= e's a lot of dust and decay from non-use, that could be readily fixed up pretty easily I imagine, so that's all I just wanted to speak on behalf of the Park and Rec Department and I guess that’s it. Thank you.

<= /p>
            Dennis Strozzi, President, The Sie= mon Realty Company, Watertown, CT <= st1:PostalCode w:st=3D"on">06795
<= /p>
            Mr. Strozzi: I happen to be the landlord on the = spaces that are being rented out by the Town.&nbs= p; There's been rumors going around I guess that we want to kick out the departments; that's totally false. If anything I'd like to extend the leases for another couple of years. I understand the predi= cament you're in with Heminway Park School and that's going to take a few years to resolve. The other issue, what this gentlem= an was saying about Baldwin School, I've been doing a lot of rehab on my bu= ilding and the cost of rehabbing a building like Baldwin School is not just a shortsighted thing. It's not just $60,000 or $100,000, it will probably cost millions of dollars. There's a lot of wor= k that has to be done. I've walked t= hrough the building, It's a beautiful building. By using it as a To= wn facility, you're taking it off the tax rolls, you're going to be limiting t= he amount of growth in Town with those tax dollars gone, and I think there's a great potential there for a private use which I see as a boon to the downto= wn area. And I think that Council should consider that, with Heminway Park School as an alternative for your = town offices, I think that makes more sense for bringing in a lot of the Town departments, but that obviously would take a few years to happen, so I just wanted to let everybody know it's not my intent to kick out any department = in Town, and if anything, I'd like to extend the leases if I could. They come due in November, 2006. That's all I have to say. Thanks.

Watertown Town Council

Public Hearing

November 21, 2005

Page 7

<= /p>
            Robert LeBlanc, 78 Highland Avenue, Waterto= wn, CT&nbs= p; 06795

<= /p>
            Mr. LeBlanc: When he talked about the committee = they had to find out what we could do with all the buildings in Town, not just B= aldwin, we spent $700,000 for assessments and for Mr. Whittaker to find out just wh= at could be done. I just wanted = to let you know that was done about 5-1/2 years ago. I wondered about the interest of t= he last gentleman that said we shouldn't be using it for Town office or for To= wn recreation, we should use it to put back on the tax rolls. I would like to know what his inte= rest is in that building. I mean h= e says he works for a company in Town that rents condominiums or whatever it is, w= hy would he come up here and say we shouldn't use it for Town offices? I think we should use it for Town o= ffices and recreation, and I thank you.

<= /p>
            Peter Tomsheck, Davis Street, Oakville, CT <= st1:PostalCode w:st=3D"on">06779=

<= /p>
            Mr. Tomsheck: I just wanted to bring up the fact = that Middlebury has gone through a recent similar situation where they've taken = a junior high school and they're currently renovating it to use for Town facilities.= I was told they received 2 grants f= or $500,000 each. There are peop= le in this Town that are pretty good about going after and securing grants. We have an elected representative = that lives in Town that is very close to the townspeople here that I'm sure would help us out, so when someone says $1,000,000 or $2,000,000 or whatever to renovate that building, this is not something that would have to be done overnight. This is something = that could be done on an as needed basis. You could move in there little by little. That building again has be= en standing, has not been on the tax rolls for, how old is that? 100 years?

<= /p>
            Mr. Pawlak: 1906.

<= /p>
            Mr. Tomsheck: I don't think that's going to put = us over the top if it goes on next week or next month. I don't see my taxes going down 3 = or 4 mills because Baldwin School opened offic= es, an office park over there, so I just wanted to add that to my previous comments that there is a lot of grant money to rehab these buildings and help our townspeople.

<= /p>
            Mr. Pawlak: What did you say Middlebury was rehabbing, the junior high school?

<= /p>
            Mr. Tomsheck: They're turning a junior high scho= ol into a community center and some town offices, something very similar to wh= at I had spoken about earlier this evening and I'm sure a couple of quick phone calls and they'd be happy to share their information of what their up again= st or what they're running into over there.&n= bsp; Thank you.

Watertown Town Council

Public Hearing

November 21, 2005

Page 8

<= /p>
            Dennis Strozzi, President, The Sie= mon Realty Company, Watertown, CT <= st1:PostalCode w:st=3D"on">06795
<= /p>
            Mr. Strozzi: I would like to rebut the people here. I think everybody knows= what The Siemon Company has done to the Princeton Knitting Mill building. We've spent a lot of money in the downtown Watertown= area to rehab the building, to make it a very successful office park. We're getting new tenants, 2, 3, 4= times a year. We signed a tenant for 52,000 square feet last year, we took them from Waterbury. We have improved and embraced the = old down town area because of our initiative to improve the area. We've brought in many more jobs wi= th the renovations that were done. W= e've created a good environment for the business community as a whole, because t= hese people are spending money in Town, they'll rent there a year or two ago. We have, as Mr. LeBlanc wants to k= now what my intention is? I'd lov= e to make that a taxable building. Why not? It's going to give money= to the Town. The Town is lacking= in some initiatives to bring in new business and new people into the environme= nt and I think the Town needs to get over this stagnant idea of keep cutting y= our budget, your budget, your budget, because it's affecting everybody. People don't want to come into Tow= n when they see a town is not progressing and by getting the building, whether it = be me or anybody else, it really doesn't matter, but converting it to a taxable operation that is going to generate taxes for the Town, both the Fire Distr= ict and the Town, it will just help the Town grow with people spending money, s= pending dollars in Town, whether it be the restaurants, whatever, but you'll find t= hat people will be spending money in Town.&nbs= p; I can say that because I've been involved with it for 29 years and I= 've seen the growth and what can happen in a Town that has progressive people w= ho take the imitative and make the town grow which is what we want to see. Now about the grants and all that, that's fine, maybe you can get grants to turn it into a town hall or a town office, I just think you're missing the boat on developing another little business area that could be conducive to, whether it be business or residential, it could be residential condominiums or business condominiums,= you have a perfect location to generate a lot of interest walking to Town, Taft School right there, beautiful street, so you have a lot of possibilities. By making it Town offices, I think you're going to be taking away from that opportunity to enhance the Town co= ffers with tax dollars Thanks.

<= /p>
            Mr. Pawlak: Anybody else from the public?<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Anyone from the Council? We're going to recess, Denis, so w= e can get the Town Council meeting at 7:30, I don't want to run late on that, and then we'll Recess that and come right back.

<= /p>
Mr. Pawlak, Chairman, called a Recess at 7:32 p.m.

Mr. Pawlak, Chairman, Reconvened the Pu= blic Hearing at 7:35 p.m.

Watertown Town Council

Public Hearing

November 21, 2005

Page 9

            Dennis O'Sullivan, North Street, Watertown, CT&nbs= p; 06795

<= /p>
            Mr. O'Sullivan: Thank you for the opportunity to come. My best wishes to you all. And I hope that my vote = for every single one of you that brought you here, you will recognize that when= you hear my comments. Thanks again. I served perhaps 10 ye= ars ago on a, what was called a Blue Ribbon Commission. Jim Petroccia and a number of othe= rs also served on that board. Th= at Blue Ribbon Commission, we were brought back after spending perhaps a year investigating all pieces of property in Town, except Board of Education properties. We were not permi= tted to look at those. We came bac= k and the group that had taken over the Council at that time asked us to make a report. They held a meeting at Swift Junior High, I think, and they asked us to sit on stage and then their complete report, or the opportunity that we had for a complete report was -= does anybody in the audience have any questions. It was an insult. It was what I would consider to be= a slap in the face, after we had spent that time and we had come back and made certain recommendations, so I would never serve on a committee in the future that would look into anything as wholesome as looking for a town hall. I was burned big time and anybody = on that commission also was burned big time.

<= /p>
            However I think if you took a poll here for everybody that is present, they have a different idea of what to do with Baldwin School. I know a little bit of history, it= is a monumental building. It was b= uilt after the original building burnt down and I think the original building was burnt down from some of the students who had set it on fire somehow. But if you take a look at that bui= lding and you look at St. John'= s School built in the= same year, there's no comparison. = It is a monumental building, it's gorgeous, it's a gem. It might be appropriate for a clas= sy town to hold its offices so when someone does come into Town they could go there. I don't know. I don't think that decision ought = to be made by me. I think my sugges= tion to you is to get a Blue Ribbon Commission to ask a number of people and to = commit somehow that you will take whatever their recommendation is and carry it to= the voters, you will not bury it like what happened to the committee I served on. You should pick people fr= om the young, the old, folks that live on Main Street. I know there was an issue of the Oakville/Watertown, let's locate the thing midway, and we had circles and we studied all that crap, but everybody gets into a car nowadays and I think most people will be conducting their t= own hall business, like town hall records, through the Internet, that will be m= ore appropriate, so I don't think a lot of people will be going to town hall. They may be going for a meeting of= this type, and it would be great to have a town hall to go there.

<= /p>
            I know there are strong feelings about not using those buildings. The gentleman here was talking abo= ut selling them and having elderly or offices, but we've got a lot of vacancies down town that don't have that. I think we got skunked when we sold Griffin School for a cheap = price and I think that was really not the right thing to do. I think we should have done someth= ing different there. However, in conclusion, I recommend you consider setting up a Blue Ribbon Commission of folks in the community that are serious.&n= bsp; Don't ask me, cause I’m not going to be (Tape #1, Side A ended= - may have missed some) with their recommendation, commit (inaudible) if it's= a broad enough group and they don't have any ax to grind with whatever they m= ay have. Thank you for your cons= ideration, best of luck with your endeavors and that's all I have. Thank you.

Watertown Town Council

Public Hearing

November 21, 2005

Page 10

<= /p>
            Mr. Pawlak: Anyone else wish to comment on= Baldwin School? Town Council? No?

<= /p>
3.&nb= sp;        Adjournment=

Mr. Pawlak, Chairman, Closed the Public Hearing at 7:40 p.m.

Respectfully Submitted,

Joseph Pawlak, Chairman

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;             = Town Council

&n= bsp;

A= pproved: _______________________________

      Lynn M. LaF= orme, Clerk