MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Location: file:///C:/E518DEAD/061004rm.htm Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" beagenda

MINUTES<= o:p>

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CONSERVA= TION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY

REGULAR MEETING

JOHN TRUMBULL SCHOOL MEDIA CENTER

THURSDAY= , JUNE 10, 2004 - 7:30 PM

 

PRESENT:      = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;          Bernard Beauchamp

            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;          Ron Jones, Secretary

            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;          Joseph Polletta

            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;          Charles Thermer

            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;          Edwin Undercuffler, Vice Chairman

            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;          James Zawadzki, Chairman

 

ABSENT:      = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            = Glen Duplissie

 

ALTERNATES PRESENT:      = ;        Peter Peluso

            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;          Martha Sturgis

 

ALTERNATES ABSENT:      = ;          Susan Atwood

 

OTHERS PRESENT:      = ;            &n= bsp;     Chuck Berger, Town Engineer

      = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;    Moosa Rafey, Assistant Zoning Enforcement Officer

 

1.         = Call Meeting To Order

 

            Mr. Zawadzki, Chairman, called the Regular Meeting to order at 9:15 p.m.

 

2.     &nb= sp;   Roll Call

 

            Mr. Jones, Secretary, executed the Roll Call.

 

3.         = Public Participation

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George Valaitis, 647 Linkfield Road, Waterto= wn, CT&nbs= p; 06795

 

Mr. Valaitis:  I will not speak on #495.  There are a couple of t= hings that actually I served on this Commission, served as the Vice Chair, and actually I could give you maybe a couple of pointers.  One thing this Commission been long enough I see to have the name tags, so we would know who was on the commiss= ion, for one specific reason, that actually maybe socially I won’t say politically would have been proper to have the roll call before Public Participation to have one minute of silence for the deceased former preside= nt.  Nobody on the commission suggested= that, and I think that’s an oversight.&nbs= p; He’s not my party, but he still was my president, and I think he’s not buried and it’s the first meeting since he passed away= , it would have been really proper to have a minute of silence for respect.=


CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 2

 

 

Now I’m going to look in the notes to see wha= t else I have, cause I want to be specific.  Somebody mentioned before that the contractor sometimes on the weeke= nd do the jobs.  Well I was looki= ng at one of them the contractor been doing probably for 4 or 5 weeks maybe, then= I started looking to see if we have any Minutes on it because the things were= not being done the way they should have.  And I looked up and I said oh my goodness, #4, a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j, = 37 months that the Minutes have not been approved or submitted for approval.  Some of them are not important, but let’s say 4b is very important for one simple reason.  Usually when they open up a drivew= ay they have to put stones in it.  I h= ave not seen anything at YMCA on it, and they’re excavating right next to= the road, and the trucks are pulling right in the excavation area and there haven’t been any stones.  The water ran so fast that it actually washed everything down the line, down towards Steele, not Steel Brook, but this brook that crosses Smith Pond Road.  And right now even if you get the Minutes done, the officers or commissioners that served at that time, they’re not seated.  The= n how accurate can the Minutes be presented to Town Hall for the record?  So there’s a few things that should be actually addressed.  And actually that’s all I have.

 

Mr. Polletta:  Are you talking abou= t just before you get into the thing . . . .

 

Mr. Rafey:  Anti tracking pads.<= o:p>

 

Nr, Pollet= ta:  That’s what you’re tal= king about?  Are you talking about = the stones at the beginning, the anti tracking pads?

 

Mr. Valaitis:  Yes.  When you go down towards the YMCA = from Northfield Road on the right hand side where the busses will be going in, w= here they’re putting the road in there, and there’s a fresh pile of = dirt that they’re taking away because it’s excess and the truck from= the road backs right in and there’s enough in the road at that point for = the (inaudible) truck to back in.

 

Mr. Polletta:  No, but you think it’s this Board’s responsibility to check that or (inaudible)?<= o:p>

 

Mr. Valaitis:  Well I don’t k= now because I had encountered before where Mr. Moosa had requested a lot of peo= ple to put in stones and so who is responsible I don’t know.

 

Mr. Rafey:  That is my responsib= ility to check to see on the construction side there should be anti tracking pads.  I will go there tomorro= w.

 

Mr. Peluso:  Has there been any complaints from people driving by?

 

Mr. Rafey:  No, I will go there = tomorrow to check and see.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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JUNE 10, 2004

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Mr. Valait= is:  Also further down the line, just b= eyond going up that way on the right hand side, past the old driveway, they’= ;re putting in a new driveway through the wetland.  I have not seen the silt fence on = both sides of that road in the wetland and they’ve been working all week o= n it because they put the cloth on it and they’re putting the dirt on top = of it to make the driveway I guess it was going to be an exit at that point.

 

Mr. Rafey:  You’re talking= about the YMCA?  I want to ask Mr. B= erger, did you look at that with Mary?

 

Mr. Berger:  No.

 

Mr. Valaitis:  That’s all I h= ave, thank you.

 

Mr. Rafey:  Mr. Chairman, about = the nametags, just for your information I have name tags for most of the commis= sion members but because we have some new members we ordered them and they are n= ot ready, so I didn’t want to put out some commission members and not al= l of them.  I’m waiting to re= ceive the new ones.  As soon as I ha= ve all of them I will bring them to the meeting and put them on the table.  It won’t look good if some h= ave nameplates and some don’t.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  George, I agree with= you that we should observe a moment of silence and I’ll ask to do that ri= ght now for our former President, Ronald Reagan.

 

Denis O’Sullivan, 238 North Street, Watertown= , CT&nbs= p; 06795

 

Mr. O’Sullivan:  I’m here tonight to ask for your assistance.  The issue I’m looking for yo= ur assistance is to try and resolve a problem that I have been attempting to resolve for the last 2 years plus and it has to do with soap suds in a brook that runs past my home and I’ve been observing it, it seems to be increased at some times and other times it’s not there.  But it’s consistently there = in that I take the dogs out a couple of times a day and I may only see it once= a day or then every other day, but at times I see it more often.  I have contacted staff and I‘= ;ve worked with the Sanitarian and I’ve worked with primarily him to try = and find where it’s at and identify for him when it occurs and I know that they’ve made certain attempts, he and I think the Town Engineer have = made certain attempts, but I’m attempting to find somebody or some agency = that would be responsible for finding out who is responsible, to search out this source of suds in the brook.  I’d like to give you a couple of things, Mr. Chairman.  I’d like to give you a log I= kept for the month of March of this year where I tried to note down when the suds were there to see if I could pick up a pattern, and then on that I did on o= ne day the suds were very extensive so I took some pictures and I have copies = of those that I’d like to show you, and if I could bring those up to you= ?

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

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Mr. Zawadzki:  Okay.

 

Mr. O’Sullivan:  T= hese are 3 copies of the log that I kept just for that month and if I kept the l= og for the months, and these are pictures that I took, I marked them on the ba= ck with my name and address and I’d like you to see these.  The day was cold and it was a substantial, it was like (inaudible) industrial dump.  I know you’ve gone through a= lot of very detailed work with the developer that’s coming in here and I’m just a ball of frustration.  I don’t know what to do.  I did, there was maybe a week ago there was more suds in the brook a= nd I took more pictures.

 

Mr. Peluso:  Are there sewers in = your area?

 

Mr. O’Sullivan:  Yes.  North Street is, do you know where = Baldwin School is?

 

Mr. Peluso:  Yes.

 

Mr. O’Sullivan:  It would be north of Baldwin where you take= North Street it goes down past the graveyards.

 

Mr. Peluso:  You’re just pa= st that on the right hand side.

 

Mr. O’Sullivan:  Yes, there’s a brook that comes out.  If you look at North Street it probably was a brook at one time, way back when, and there’s a very large culvert that collects water from a number of places and we think that this condition is coming from some place over towards Litchfield Road, and I do know that Bob Smith, the Sanitarian,= has done some testing and it was unsuccessful to determine whether it does not = look like it’s sanitary and maybe the person who’s doing it is not really even aware of it, but it looks like washing machine.  But I’ve been talking with p= eople for 2 years and I don’t seem to be able to get anywhere, and I’m saying I’m fed up with it, and I know you all would be also, so IR= 17;m looking for your help to do something, to get the suds out of the brook.  What I’m showing you, it loo= ks like an industrial dump and that’s on North Street, that’s in our T= own.

 

Mr. Peluso:  Has it always been l= ike this?

 

Mr. O’Sullivan:  No.  I’ve lived i= n my house for 35 years.  I have 4 children and they used to go down and play in the brook.  No, it has not always been there.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  This is a phenomenon that I’= ve noticed over the past 2 years and a little bit.  But when I noticed it I reported i= t to, I think only Bob Smith, and I think Bob Smith also spoke to, Bob Smith is t= he Sanitarian from the Torrington Area Health, and he was very helpful and very supportive and we met out there looking at yes it is, and trying to chase it down and I just want the suds out of my brook and I know you do too, so how= can we do that?

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 5

 

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Who else is aware of= this at this point?  (Tape #2, Side= B ended – may have missed some.)

 

Mr. O’Sullivan:  I= did at the beginning of this year, I said I’m going to do something about this and Id talk with the Town Engineer who is here tonight.  I did tell him that I’m fed up.  And maybe he would be abl= e to enlighten us as to what was done or not done.

 

Mr. Berger:  I was made aware of = this by Robert Smith probably a year or so ago, maybe a little less than that.  After a couple of field inspection= s with Bob Smith, we were able to, we thought we had narrowed down where it was co= ming from and tracing up back up through the catch basins along North Street, one particular catch basin we thought we see it start, but further upstream the water is clear so we narrowed it down where we first started seeing it in t= he catch basins.  In December of = last year we went out with the property owner’s permission and did a dye t= est in their wash sink in their basement cause that was our best estimate as to where it was coming from, which proved to be unsuccessful.  We never saw the dye come out in t= he stream so that must be, we assume, properly connected to the sanitary syste= m up there.  Following that dye tes= t we spoke to Ernie Coppock, from the Fire District, cause there’s Fire District sewer in that area.  = We spoke with him verbally and explained to him what we had done, broadened wh= at we thought might be the homes that we looked at and we recommended he had h= is crew look at because he has the authority to go in and do those types of investigations where Bob and I were just, it was really out of the goodness= of property owners that they were willing to cooperate with us on the first on= e we did but there is another 3 homes we recommended to be tested back in Decemb= er and then again in March we put it in witting to him requesting an update as= to where we were with that and we haven’t had a response.  I’d like to share that lette= r with you.

 

Mr. Zawadzki, Chairman= read the following letter into the record:

 

“March 5, 2004

 

Ernie Coppock

Superintendent

Watertown Fire Distric= t

24 Deforest Street

Watertown, CT  06795=


CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 6

 

 

Dear Mr. Coppock:=

 

This letter is written as a follow up to our previo= us discussions regarding the occurrence of what appears to be soap suds in the storm system and brook which runs adjacent to North Street.  This situation has been brought to= the attention of the Torrington Area Health District and this office on many occasions in the past.  Follow= ing an inspection of the area by Robert Smith and myself, a potential source was identified at 125 Litchfie= ld Street.  At approximately 9:15 a.m. on December 1, 2003 a dye test was perfor= med in the wash sink in the basement of 125 Litchfield Street.  The storm system and the stream we= re monitored throughout the day as well as the following morning and no eviden= ce of the dye was observed.  We reviewed our dye test efforts with you and concluded that a larger neighbor= hood inspection was warranted to investigate and determine the source of the soap suds.  Mr. Smith and I recomme= nded that the additional inspections focus on 286 North Street, 115 Litchfield Street, and 280 North Street in the order presented.  It was i= ndicated that Fire District personnel would perform these inspections as soon as time permits.  Please be advised th= at soap suds were reported on the stream again on March 3, and 5, 2004.  The purpose of this letter is to r= equest an update as to the status of the recommended inspections as well as any ot= her efforts to resolve this long standing issue.  Thank you for your assistance in t= his matter and if you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact this= office.

 

Sincerely,<= /span>

 

Charles E. Berger, Jr.=

Town Engineer

 

Cc:       Robert Smith, Torrington Area Health District

            Denis O'Sullivan”

 

Mr. Pollet= ta:  Basically this is the Fire Distric= t and they’re the only ones who have the power to go into these houses?

 

Mr. Berger:  That’s the way= I understand it.  They have the = power to go in them.  We can continu= e our searches and hope that the neighbors will cooperate, but the District, they= do that as their normal, it’s their responsibility, it’s their business to go in and investigate potential cross connections between washi= ng machines or wash sheets, whatever is causing these soap suds.

 

Mr. Polletta:  The Fire District an= d the Town of Watertown<= /st1:City> is two separate (inaudible)?

 

Mr. Rafey:  They have their own separate zoning regulations.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 7

 

 

Mr. Polletta:  I understand that, b= ut the thing is that in other words, they can go in there but you can’t in t= hose homes?

 

Mr. Berger:  I don’t think = I can force that to happen.

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  Should the perhaps t= he commission write a letter expressing our displeasure over this and asking t= hem to (inaudible)?

 

Mr. Rafey:  That’s a good idea.  I just wanted to sugges= t that this commission, I will draft a letter and bring it to the Chairman to sign= .

 

Mr. Zawadz= ki:  Yea, that would be my suggestion.  We can issue a letter to follow up= on this and ask them for some response to Chuck’s letter and hope that t= hat will get some results.  That w= ould be our first step I guess at this point and hope to knock something loose.<= /p>

 

Mr. O’Sullivan:  G= reat idea.  Could I suggest that a timeframe be structured such that this has gone on too long.  The Fire District has been aware o= f this for more than a year.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Mr. Coppock?

 

Mr. O’Sullivan:  That’s correct.  = If they are the responsible entity I just and I don’t know if they are because I’m not here to decide on who should be doing things, I have = my own opinion of it but that’s really irrelevant, could I ask that if y= ou do send them a letter, could you put a timeframe on it, not only for a resp= onse but for some action.  Or denia= l that responsibility so then we can go back and look in the Town, because right n= ow it’s a tennis ball, if you know what I mean.  And I would like to be informed, I’d like to get a copy of the correspondence for no other reason that I’ve got to look at it and I’m sick of looking at it and I̵= 7;m not going to put up with that.

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  Maybe a copy should = go to D.E.P.

 

Mr. Zawadz= ki:  Yea, that’s a good suggestion.  Sure we could cop= y you certainly and we could put a timeframe on it.  I don’t guarantee that that = would make a difference but at least we could try it.  Again the Fire District is a separ= ate entity but they do have a responsibility.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 8

 

 

Mr. O’Sullivan:  Fortunately we have a member of the Fire District governing body on = your board so if there is a timeframe on it perhaps at next Monday’s meeti= ng it would be very good idea for them to get any correspondence from you befo= re that meeting and then maybe the member of the governing body that is here present on your board could carry over my frustration and your indignation about having this go on for such an extended period of time.  And if it’s their responsibi= lity shame on them and if it’s not, they should so state so we could go someplace.  All I’m look= ing to do is get the suds out of the brook, and I know all of you want the same th= ing.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Sure.

 

Mr. Rafey:=   Mr. Chairman, because this is a we= tland issue, and watercourses are regulated by your regulations it should be like= a joint effort from my office and the Fire District and Chuck Berger to get it and we also involve D.E.P. because I don’t have any equipment or anyt= hing to go there and do tests and find out where the source is.  Maybe we can get some help from D.= E.P. if that’s possible.  I w= ill draft a letter and bring it to you and copy Mr. O’Sullivan and the D.= E.P.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Will we be able to g= et a letter for Monday’s meeting?  Tomorrow is Friday, that only gives you a day.

 

Mr. Rafey:  Yes.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Okay, we can shoot f= or that and start there.

 

Mr. O’Sullivan:  T= hat will be great.  I’m sure= it will be an item that perhaps someone will care to bring up at the Fire Dist= rict meeting.

 

Mr. Jones:  Sir?  Do we have any reason to believe t= hat the person who might be causing this is aware that he’s doing it even= ?

 

Mr. O’Sullivan:  N= o.

 

Mr. Jones:=   So would it be possible also to ju= st make this a public notice in the newspaper, an article that brings this to = the attention of everybody.  Possi= bly this could be resolved voluntarily by the person who finds out that he̵= 7;s been doing something wrong for a long time, if that happens to be the case.  I don’t mean to d= o this only, but as a first step maybe.  It could be in the paper 2 days from now and maybe someone might find that gee= I remember I changed where that hose goes and I should change it back and the problem would go away.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 9

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  It could be the sewe= rs on the street too, we don’t know.

 

Mr. O’Sullivan:  C= ould I have those pictures back so that when I go to the next step have something?=

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Absolutely.  Let the record show that the pictu= res were examined by the Commission and returned to Mr. O’Sullivan.<= /o:p>

 

Mr. Rafey:  Can I keep these?

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  He gave us 3 copies.=

 

Mr. O’Sullivan:  Y= es, oh sure.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Okay, Mr. O’Sul= livan did leave a set of photographs with the Commission.

 

Mr. Beauchamp:  I have been appointe= d to the Fire District recently.  I= have yet to attend a meeting.  I= 217;ve just been appointed.

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4.         = Action on Minutes

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        &= nbsp;   A.        Continuation of Public Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #415, Cathie Caton<= /p>

        &= nbsp;   B.         = Continuation of Public Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #421, YMCA

  &nbs= p;         C.        Continuation of Public Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #422, Mary Ann Cathcart

        &= nbsp;   D.        Public Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #423, Mark Lovely

        &= nbsp;   E.         = Public Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #424, Domenic DiNunzio

        &= nbsp;   F.         = Public Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #425, New Millennium Development, Inc.

  &nbs= p;         G.        Regular Meeting, May 10, 2001

        &= nbsp;   H.        Continuation of Public Hearing, July 12, 2001, App. #423, Mark Lovely<= /p>

        &= nbsp;   I.        &= nbsp; Continuation of Public Hearing, July 12 2001, App. #424, Domenic DiNunzio

        &= nbsp;   J.        &= nbsp; Continuation of Public Hearing, July 12, 2001, App. #425, New Millennium Development, In= c.

A.&n= bsp;            = ;    K.   = ;     Public Hearing July 12, 2001, App. #428, Echo Lake Watertown LLC

A.&n= bsp;            = ;    L.   = ;      Regular Meeting, July 12, 2001

A.&n= bsp;            = ;    M.   = ;     Regular Meeting April 15, 2004

            N.        Public Hearing, May 26, 2004, App. #495, Patrick Graziano

            O.        Regular Meeting, May 26, 2004

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        &= nbsp;   MOTION:       (Mr. Beauchamp, sec. Mr. Polletta) to Approve Items #4M, and Table Items 4A thro= ugh 5L and 4N through 4O.

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        &= nbsp;   Discussion:       None<= o:p>

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        &= nbsp;   MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 10

 

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5.         = Pending Applications

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        &= nbsp;   A.        Application #495 of Patrick Graziano, proposed 4-lot Willowbrook Farm Subdivision Northfield Road, Watertown in an R-30 Residential Zoning District.

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   If Public Hearing is Closed on June 10, 2004, then a decision is required by August 13, 2004.

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Zawadzki:  The Public Hearing was Closed as o= f this evening and I guess we need a Motion to Table this until our next meeting.<= o:p>

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         MOTION:       (Mr. Polletta, sec. Mr. Jones) to Table Application #495 of Patrick Graziano, proposed 4-lot Willowbrook Farm Subdivision Northfield Road, Watertown in an R-30 Residential Zoning District.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Discussion: = ;      None

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        &= nbsp;   MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

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A.      =            B.   = ;      Application #498 of Michael Keane, 608 Echo Lake Road, Watertown, for construction of a parking area on east side of Ice House Road at 608 Echo Lake Road, Watertow= n, CT.

 

If a Public Hearing is= not held then a decision us required by July 26, 2004.

 

Mike Keane, 608 Echo L= ake Road, Watertown, CT  06795=

 

Mr. Keane:  I made a change from t= he first proposal for the access way to the second proposal to the access way (inaudible) on the 22nd of May which would be like running paral= lel with the tree line, which would be about 50 to 60 yards north of the wetlan= ds for the first area I proposed.  It’s a very minimal encroachment on my plan, if any at all.  It’s running in a northerly, easterly along the tree line along the back end of my property.  The original one was running in th= e same direction but encroaching on my plans.&nbs= p; This is actually going through the pasture and not going through any wetlands area at all.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Right, so you’= re willing to accept that as an alternate route into the pasture?

 

Mr. Keane:  Yes.  It’s the only feasible area = left.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 11

 

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Well it is already t= here.

 

Mr. Keane:  Yes, correct.

 

Mr. Undercuffler:   I believe that originally was wetla= nds there.

 

Mr. Rafey:  That entire area is regulated area because there is a watercourse next to the existing driveway= and 50 foot buffer zone of that watercourse is regulated by the Wetlands Regulations.

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  Yea, and it was distu= rbed, it’s a filled wetland is what it is, so it’s not like it’s not wetlands.

 

Mr. Rafey:  But if you compare t= his alternative to what Mr. Keane proposed originally I think this has less imp= act on the wetlands because the driveway is already there.  All they have to do just a connect= ion to the fee, which requires some filling there.

 

Mr. Keane:  It’s a minimal amount of fill compared to the first area I had chosen.  It’s very, very little.=

 

Mr. Rafey:  Do you have the squa= re footage of that area of how much area?

 

Mr. Keane:  That will be used fo= r the access way?

 

Mr. Rafey:  No, not the existing= part, the end of that driveway that you want to connect to the field?<= /span>

 

Mr. Keane:  No, I don’t ha= ve the square footage area on that.  We’re looking at about 14 feet wide by 10 feet minimum between where that area is before the fence line, but after the fence line it’= ;s dry land.  It’s just tha= t one area that’s a little bit damp, a little bit wetlands compared to the first area.

 

Mr. Polletta:  = So this one over here,= you go straight into your land, you don’t go to the right?

 

Mr. Keane:  I would still like t= o go to the right because it’s dryer.

 

Mr. Polletta:  = Where we did the filte= ring, under those trees, you’re not going under those trees.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 12

 

 

Mr. Keane:  I’m going para= llel with the tree line, yea, straight in.

 

Mr. Polletta:  = So you follow the broo= k in?

 

Mr. Keane:  No, is the brook run= ning say north/south.  I want to go towards the east where it says second proposal, so I would be coming in rou= ghly toward the gate was that we walked up to, but just before the gate I would = be bearing to the right, (inaudible).

 

Mr. Polletta:  = The way we discussed o= n the field trip?

 

Mr. Keane:  Yes.  Exactly.  It will be parallel with the tree = line.

 

Mr. Rafey:  This is next to the = brook, you are right.

 

Mr. Polletta:  It is next to the br= ook because that was existing.

 

Mr. Keane:  Yes, the brook was a= lready there.

 

Mr. Rafey:  We (inaudible) recei= ve any detail, that’s why I didn’t even send it to Mr. Berger to look = at this, there is no technical information.&n= bsp; If the Commission wants to make a decision I think there should be a condition that Mr. Keane provide more information about how much area will = be disturbed and what they’re going to use for fill and what kind of sur= face will be on the driveway.  You = will use the same surface or you will put gravel or something?=

 

Mr. Keane:  It will be like dirt= fill and gravel top on it, regular dirt with gravel.

 

Mr. Peluso:  Processed?

 

Mr. Keane:  Yes.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Won’t we need a formal application?  (Inaudibl= e.)

 

Mr. Rafey:  Yes.  In case you want to make a decisio= n, you can put some conditions, your standard conditions.

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  I think we had the understanding you would clean up the previous partial driveway that was put= in there and clean that all up.

 

Mr. Keane:  Yes.  Correct.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 13

 

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  He hasn’t seen= this letter, right?  Your letter?

 

Mr. Rafey:  No.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Let me read the cond= itions that was stated up till this point after the field trip.<= /p>

 

1.         = All the fill materials must be removed from the wetlands which have been deposi= ted recently which is what we’re talking about there where you stopped.  You removed that new fill material= and all disturbed areas must be stabilized by turf and you must use Best Manage= ment Practices to manage the horse farm and protect the wetlands and watercourses from further pollution.  Now t= his would be those 3 things would be conditions of approval.  Do you have any problem with that?=

&nbs= p;

Mr. Keane:  No.  Now do you want me to clean out, t= ake out all of the dirt that we put in?

 

Mr. Rafey:  Not all of that beca= use he has to use that area to get into this driveway.  The part that you went into the wetlands, that part should be pushed back.

 

Mr. Keane:  Bring that back out?=

 

Mr. Rafey:  Yes.  I can go with Mr. Berger with Mr. = Keane and then show him what to do.  If you put these conditions on we can (inaudible).

 

Mr. Keane:  Exactly as to how fa= r I need to go back and remove all that fill.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  I was at the site, b= ut not at the same time you guys were.  Were there any other conditions that you want to stipulate besides w= hat I just read?

 

Mr. Polletta:  = .Well I feel if all th= e, I mean during the field trip the only thing I saw was the fill that was into = the wetlands, and we felt if he created a driveway on the existing side it woul= d be less impact, so if he removes that and he will coordinate it with our engin= eer and Planning and Zoning Office, I don’t think that he will disturb anything and it will be like it was before.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  I guess the other qu= estion is how much technical detail do we need as far as . . . . .

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 14

 

 

Mr. Rafey:   It’s not= like a public (inaudible), it’s private driveway and all I need is to see = how much area he’s going to be disturbed by filling that end of the drive= way that’s existing there.  = As you said probably 14 x 10 or 14 x 15.

 

Mr. Keane:  Yes, that would be l= ike from where the vegetation starts on the right hand side where the fence line is, it’s only about 10 feet distance from one area to the other and it’s about 14 feet wide, so it’s enough to swing a truck and a trailer, a pickup truck and a (inaudible).

 

Mr. Rafey:  Just to connect the existing driveway to the field.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Now we need to deter= mine if it’s a Significant Activity.

 

Mr. Rafey:  Yes.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  I need a Motion for = that or discussion.  Does anybody f= eel this is a Significant Activity that it would require a Public Hearing?  I don’t.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         MOTION:       (Mr. Polletta, sec. Mr. Jones) that Application #498 of Michael Keane, 608 Echo = Lake Road, Watertown, for construction of a parking area on east side of Ice Hou= se Road at 608 Echo Lake Road, Watertown, CT is Not a Significant Activity.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         Discussion:       None<= /p>

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

&nb= sp;

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         MOTION:       (Mr. Polletta, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Approve Application #498 of Michael Keane,= 608 Echo Lake Road, Watertown, for construction of a parking area on east side = of Ice House Road at 608 Echo Lake Road, Watertown, CT, subject to conditions.=

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         Discussion: = ;      Mr. Undercuffler:  Before we v= ote on this, I have a point, a question.  This #3, I’m a little concerned over what Best Management Practices we’re going to require on this.  Do we need to define that a little= bit?

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 15

 

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Mr. Rafey:  I have some literature that I sent = to you with the packet and I want to give a copy of that to Mr. Keane to just foll= ow those.  If Mr. Keane needs hel= p he can contact the State of Conn= ecticut, they will help him.  Really you don’t have a good management system on your farm, and it’s a ve= ry sensitive area upstream of Echo Lake, and you know that’s very import= ant for the Town, and just to protect that watercourse I think you need some management on your farm.  My suggestion would be they should put a fence on both sides of the watercours= e, the watercourse that goes through your property.  You have a fence on one side, you don’t have a fence on the other side.  If you can leave a few feet on eac= h side and let the grass grow on both sides of the watercourse.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Mr. Keane:  Are you talking about the one = that comes down off of . . . . .

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;         = ;           Mr. Rafey:  The one that goes through your property.  You ha= ve a fence on one side of the watercourse but you don’t have it on the oth= er side, and my suggestion would be one of the Best Management Practices would= be to fence both sides of the watercourse and let the (inaudible).

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Mr. Undercuffler:  And keep the horses out of the wate= r.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Mr. Zawadzki:  So that should be a condition of the approval.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;         = ;           Mr. Rafey:  You can put that a= s a condition.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Mr. Polletta:  Mr. Chairman, I incorporated those conditions, but I mean I read all the stuff that you sent us in our packet = and I will suggest that you give us . . . . .

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;         = ;           Mr. Rafey:  I will make a copy= of all of these and give them to Mr. Keane.  This is some technical information (inaudible).

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Mr. Zawadzki:  Okay then we’ll amend th= is Item #3 to include the packet of information that was provided to them.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Mr. Polletta:  Well when I said conditions that’s part of it.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 15

 

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Mr. Rafey:  Anything that you added to that wil= l be part of the conditions, and plus with the standard conditions that I usually put on the permit.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;         = ;           Mr. Jones:  I thought that whe= n we were there Mr. Keane you said that the horses drank that water and therefore they needed access.  If weR= 17;re going to put fences around it, you’ll have to provide water somewhere else.  Is that what you’= re planning to do there?

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;         = ;           Mr. Keane:  Well I didn’t realize I would have to put up fencing so now I have to do an alternative to provide water I mean with water troughs.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;         = ;           Mr. Jones:  Just so we all understand that putting the fence was not in the original thinking.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Mr. Undercuffler:  Well yea, but the concern here is h= aving the manure directly in the water which feeds into Echo Lake.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Mr. Duplissie:  How many horses are on the pro= perty?

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Mr. Keane:  7.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;         = ;           Mr. Duplissie:  Are they all y= ours?

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Mr. Keane:  No, I board.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Mr. Duplissie:  So are you going to board another 2= 0 on the property or are we limiting how many horses he can board on this proper= ty?

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;         = ;           Mr. Rafey:  Do you want to wit= hdraw this Motion, because if you are asking questions, yes, it should be only yo= ur discussion, not the applicant’s.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Mr. Polletta:  If there is some discussion I’ll withdraw the motion.

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         Mr. Polletta Withdrew His Motion.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  How many horse= s do you plan n keeping on the property?

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 17

 

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Keane:  That’s max 7 horses.  There’s 1 horse, we have sta= lls for like 6 horses and there’s 1 pony that just has the area around the barn area.  That is it.  There are no plans for boarding an= y more horses.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  And I noticed that the site is typi= cal for horses, and when you have that many horses on a piece of property there’s not a lot of grass on it, it’s an awful lot of mud where the horses are.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Keane:  The horses are in different pasture= s.

 

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Duplissie:  So that muddy = area that’s in there, they’re not in there?  When I drive by it or walk by it y= ou can see there is a lot of mud in that field.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Keane:  Where are you driving?  Icehouse Road or Echo Lake Road?

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  When you’re on Echo Lake Road you can look down on= to the property.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Keane:  When you say the muddy area, where?=

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  The trampled area, by the horses.  The horses are in there and they’re trampling the area, aren’t they?

 

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Rafey:  I think on the sou= th side of the watercourse behind (inaudible).

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Keane:  You mean down parallel, down c= lose to Icehouse Road?

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  Yes.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Keane:  Yes, there is a very wet area on t= he right hand side slope to the stream that flows in the north/south direction along Icehouse Road.  There is a wet area there, yes, co= rrect.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  And they do get into that area?

 

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Keane:  Yes, they do.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  And they trample it?  They can do whatever they want in = that area.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 18

 

 

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Keane:  Yea. Virtually, ye= s.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Ms. Sturgis:  Is that issue of the whole stream = and the fencing separate and distinct from the parking area that he’s requesting?  Are they two diff= erent issues or am I incorrect?

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  This is an existing farm and M= r. Keane is raising I think, keeping 7 horses there.  The Commission made a field trip, = you weren’t present, and we noticed there was an existing driveway next to the watercourse, but Mr. Keane wanted to put a new driveway through the wetlands to get to those fields in the back of the property.  Then the Commission determined tha= t the existing driveway is a better alternative, but the Commission wants to give this permit to Mr. Keane with some mitigation that okay let me give you this permit with these conditions if you can improve your farm, yes, to protect = the watercourse.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Polletta:  Echo Lake, the topography of the land is horrendous.&= nbsp; I mean this is the only way that really for a safety reason he can g= et in and access his property.  W= e took a walk on Echo Lake and it’s pretty bad.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  They have a limited parking area an= d the driveway is not a good driveway from Echo Lake to get in and = get out.  This is much safer Tape = #3, Side A ended – may have missed some.)

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  We don’t want you to put 30 = horses on there, and if 7 is the number that you’re telling us then we’= ;ll live with that 7, and if you follow the procedures, a little bit of seed he= re and there, and a little bit of maintenance, I think it will work.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Keane:  There’s one area of my property that is accessed through a riding arena and it does go through over the stream, not through the stream, but the gate is like one side of the stream.  Now if you want me to= fence that off, I’m going to be . . . . .

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  No, you can leave that access way.<= /p>

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Ms. Sturgis:  He mentioned if you fence it off y= our horses, you have to provide alternate ways to . . . . .

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 19

 

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Keane:  I’ll have to supply water to= the area, like water troughs.  The= only reason why we didn’t do that before is because of mosquitoes and West Nile and all that stuff, we didn’t want standing water.  That’s = one of our big things at the moment.  Like the stream is flowing right there, has been flowing right there for eons, a= nd it’s never been a problem before, but we’ll just have to change= it around a little bit.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Ms. Sturgis:  So you don’t mind using the troughs for the water then?

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Keane:  I don’t mind it, it̵= 7;s just going to be, I say the mosquitoes thing is big everywhere at the moment and horses get West Nile the exact same as humans get it, so I just didn’t want standing water, but we’ll find some alternative to that.

 

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Zawadzki:  We can make tha= t a condition of approval also that there are 7 horses and just like we were talking about 3 on the . . . . .

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  The problem is that in Watertown we have zoning regulations ab= out farms.  Once you have 5 acres = of land you can have as many animals as you want.  I think this is a good issue that = this Commission should discuss with the Planning and Zoning Commission to change their regulations and limit the number of horses or animals that somebody c= an have on their property based on the acreage that they have.  In other towns they have regulatio= ns that for one horse you need so many acres and for the second horse you need= so many additional acres, but in = Watertown once you have 5 acres of land you can have 20 horses.  This is something this Commission = can discuss with the Planning and Zoning Commission and make some recommendatio= ns.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Zawadzki:  This plot plan shows 4. . . . . .

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  4.6.  This is an existing on-conforming situation.  As long as Mr. Kea= ne continues using this property as a horse farm we cannot do anything about it.  Once they abandon the use= then the next owner cannot use the property for that.

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Polletta:  What is it, 1 year?

 

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Rafey:  They changed the e= ntire set and remove all the barns and everything, like a back yard and . . . .

 

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Zawadzki:  Well if we̵= 7;re through with our discussion, anything else?

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 20

 

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         MOTION:       Mr. Polletta, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Approve Application #498 of Michael Keane,= 608 Echo Lake Road, Watertown, for construction of a parking area on east side = of Ice House Road at 608 Echo Lake Road, Watertown, CT, subject to conditions.=

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         Discussion:       None<= /p>

 

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

&nbs= p;

C.        Application #499 of William Joyce, 325 Woodbury Road, Watertown, CT for maintenance and digging of an existing pond at 325 Woodbury Road, Watertown.

 

If a Public Hearing is= not held, then a decision is required by July 26, 2004.

 

Mike Hostetler, Representing William Joyce<= /o:p>

 

Mr. Hostetler:  I live in Watertown and also work for Mr. Joyce f= or about 2 years.  I was going to= state the purpose of the application but you just stated it. Is there anything I = can add to it?

 

Mr. Rafey:  This is pond maintena= nce on Woodbury Road.  Some of the Commission members wen= t to the property and looked at this.

 

Mr. Polletta:  During the field trip= we looked at the pond and the question was how are you going to clean it?  Are you just going to take all the= stuff out and remove the water.  I m= ean if there is anything in the pond, like whatever is in there, frogs, fish.=

 

Mr. Hostetler:  Yea, from a practical= point of view for us (inaudible) operator to dredge or remove anything from the pond.  It’s easier if th= e pond has been drained and let dry for awhile.  That’s what we would like to do.  I’m not an expert, = but I don’t think there’s much in that pond.  There’s some frogs, probably= some turtles and some small minnow.  That’s all I’ve ever seen in there.  I think it’s a manmade pond and I think the groundwater fills = it and I think it also drains just to the overflow through a small orange pipe= off set.

 

Mr. Polletta:  The only outlet that = you have for excess in case it fills up is that 4 inch hole on top, that’s what you have for escape?

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 21

 

 

Mr. Hostetler:  Yes, and that does fl= ow, it is open, and it does take a good amount of water so I assume it’s one= .

 

Mr. Polletta:  The mud and the muck = that you take out of there do we have any restriction how far it’s got to = be from there so it doesn’t fall back or do you just put silt fence?

 

Mr. Rafey:  I recommend that the= y can put it outside of the 50 foot buffer zone.=   Is that possible?

 

Mr. Hostetler:  Ordinarily again if = an excavator is removing the fill or material, they would cast it as far as th= ey could reach, and that would be right on the bank in the 50 foot buffer.  Also we have in the works a propos= al for a carriage house.  That cleare= d area you saw in the site walk that right now is all dirt, is going to be all part and parcel of that.

 

Mr. Polletta:  Whatever you remove = out of there, you’re going put some kind of protection so it doesn’t g= o back into it?

 

Mr. Hostetler:  Yes, my understandin= g is to cast it onto the bank in the buffer zone and put silt fence so it doesn’t just ooze back in.  Again that’s the reason we want to drain it.  The less water in the material the faster it dries, the more usable it becomes if it needs to be trucked off s= ite or if it’s nice topsoil, we don’t really know what it is until = we pull it out, and hopefully can reuse it on site as topsoil.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  How do you propose to drain it?

 

Mr. Hostetler:  There is an existing= drain there.  There is a valve that’s closed.  I’= d love to open that valve, but I don’t know if I’ll be able to.  If not I can still drain through t= hat 4 inch pipe.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Where will the water= go?

 

Mr. Hostetler:  It goes off site.  I’m not sure, I’ve nev= er walked on the other properties.  It does flow down towards the Taft area, somewhere off that site.  It’s an existing item, I don= ’t really know where it goes.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Well I’m wonde= ring if you let it go at a much faster rate than it’s used to going, it co= uld create some flooding somewhere.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 22

 

 

Mr. Hostetler:  Yea, being a 4 inch = pipe it would take some amount of water, but I probably wouldn’t let it discharge that quickly.  Proba= bly let it just drain down easy.  I wouldn’t take that long.  Right now at the very deepest it’s probably just a couple feet= of water, so I don’t think it will present any flooding downstream probl= em or down the discharge end.

 

Mr. Jones:  You’re figurin= g that draining the pond by gravity?

 

Mr. Hostetler:  Yes.

 

Mr. Jones:  Do you have a pipe a= t the proper level about where the muck starts?

 

Mr. Hostetler:  Yes.

 

Mr. .Jones:  Is there any concern= about too much silt in the discharge?  In other words you’re going to (inaudible) off the clean water and leave just a little bit of water that will dry out.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Well that’s wh= at they’re going o dredge out, though.&= nbsp; You drain off the water and then the muck at the bottom is what you’re dredging out, right?

 

Mr. Jones:  Right, and the water= you dredge out will be clear and not diluted?

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Yea, and then once y= ou get it down to that point you let it dry out and presumably then you have some caking effect and that’s what you’re going to dredge out is the caked up mud.

 

Mr. Hostetler:  Yes. Again those dra= ins there is no guarantee.  I don’t know if there’s depressions where it would hold water and hopefully as far as I can tell the pipe is at the low section it is at the = dam end and I think it does have the lowest depression so by and large I think = it will dry out practically entirely.  The water right now is not crystal clear, (inaudible) and that’= ;s one of the reasons why we want to clean it.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  And what is your pro= posal for wildlife you capture, if any, like turtles or frogs?  Are you going to transport off sit= e or let them fend for themselves?

 

Mr. Hostetler:  I don’t think there’s much in there.  I would hope they would hop away on their own in the evening.  I have no proposal for that.<= /o:p>

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 23

 

 

Mr. Rafey:  Once they drain the = pond they will move out and then when the water comes back hopefully they’= ll come back.

 

Mr. Duplissie:  They don’t do that.  Once you drain the wate= r out, the frogs will kind of walk away but they won’t go for a long time.  The turtles will just sink down in= to the mud, you’ll have to physically take them out.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  And then they’= ll be dredged out.

 

Mr. Duplissie:  Correct.  They’ll just dig them out wi= th the backhoe, that’s what is going to happen.

 

Mr. Jones:  If this is a spring = fed pond, where will that silt dry, or will your springs continue to run all Su= mmer and continue to frustrate you?

 

Mr. Hostetler:  It most likely will.=   That I don’t know.  There’s no way for me to tel= l.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  You don’t know= if it’s spring fed, at this point?

 

Mr. Hostetler:  No, I don’t, b= ut there is no way of, we’ve looked at the neighborhood, we’ve loo= ked to see if that entire area is kind of a depressed watershed area, a marshy = area that runs down through the back there and I’ve asked other people and we’ve looked around the neighborhood, my assumption is it is.  I haven’t seen any type goin= g in, I haven’t seen any indication that there ever was one.  I’ve asked friends of mine w= ho live in the neighborhood and I have no answer on it.  I think it’s part of the (inaudible).

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  But you say it’= ;s kind of muddy and so it can’t be a real strong spring.

 

Mr. Hostetler:  I wouldn’t thi= nk so but the water seems to maintain a certain height and it goes down seasonall= y a little bit in the Summer, 4 inches maybe and in the Winter it’s right= up to the top of the dam, to the overflow, and that’s about the extent of the changes.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  The first Motion wou= ld be to determine whether this is a Significant Activity or not.  I don’t feel it is.

 

Mr. Duplissie:  I’ve been on t= his property when it was, I can’t remember the name.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 24

 

 

Mr. Hostetler:  Vivian Hanson.

 

Mr. Duplissie:  Mrs. Hanson.  Yes.  She was the previous owner and I’ve been on this property when she was there and my son and daughter both played at this pond.

 

Mr. Hostetler:  I think everyone in = the neighborhood by all accounts has been through that property and that pond.<= o:p>

 

Mr. Rafey:  I’m not that w= orried about this because I think its contained on this property, it doesn’t= go anywhere else.  It's not part = of a major watercourse that moves outside.  I didn’t see any outlet other than that 4 inch pipe.<= /p>

 

Mr. Duplissie:  I want to describe i= t like a farm pond and basically it’s filled up with water and that’s = the way it’s been for years.  She had fish in there at one point.  She had put some trout but over the years the kids in the neighborhood fished t= hem out.  Are we going to maintain= it and is this going to be put back as a pond?

 

Mr. Hostetler:  Yes, it’s mainte= nance in nature.  It’s overgro= wn as most of the property was.  The vegetation . . . . it’s not to Mr. Joyce's liking any longer and it’s just too overgrown.  We’d like to see it more manicured.  He’s not going to remove eve= rything, he’s going to pick and choose with a qualified person certain shrubs = and plants are going to say so it’s not like a barren earth operation.  It’s going to be something n= icer for a back yard.  Most of the property now has been cleared of a lot of the overgrowth and there is going= to be replanting and it will simply look just more maintained.  It will remain a pond.  It will be no different, just clea= ner.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Well I think long te= rm a deeper pond is a nicer pond and a healthier pond anyway, right?<= /span>

 

Mr. Hostetler:  I like it.  I’m not an expert on ponds b= ut I think so.  I think if you coul= d get a little more depth he would like to put trout in it.

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  Does he need a plann= ing approval within that 50 foot buffer?

 

Mr. Rafey:  No, but for the gara= ge that they are building they need a Zoning Permit from the Fire District.  This property is located in the Fi= re District.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 25

 

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  Right, but supposedl= y he couldn’t, he wasn’t supposed to cut those trees down because th= ey were in the 50 foot, so my question is to putting them back, does he need a permit to do any work.

 

Mr. Rafey:  To put back trees th= ere?

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  Well if he’s g= oing to be disturbing . . . . .

 

Mr. Rafey:  I think that was a par= t of this application that (inaudible) trees were from the 50 foot buffer area, = but before the application came to you they already did it, they were gone.

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  But the question is = do we have any jurisdiction over that 50 foot buffer?

 

Mr. Rafey:  Yes you do, and any = future activity within the 50 foot buffer zone, they have to come back to you.

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  So before he comes i= n and plants the trees, bushes and shrubs he’s talking about, he need to co= me with a plan for approval.

 

Mr. Rafey:  Yes.=

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  Then that should be m= ade part of the conditions for approval.

 

Mr. Rafey:  Unless you approve t= he planting within the pond.  I m= ean what kind of planting are you talking bout, outside of the pond or . . . .<= o:p>

 

Mr. Hostetler:  The planting I was r= eferring to was the plantings over by the road on Route 6.  I know he has plans to put in, (inaudible) since we removed the trees from that area.  I wasn’t specifically referr= ing to the pond or the buffer zone.

 

Mr. Rafey:  Is that outside of t= he 50 foot buffer area?

 

Mr. Hostetler:  (Inaudible) I was ref= erring to yes.  I’m not excludi= ng the fact that he may propose that.  I don’t know that this evening though.

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  I think we should make= it clear that if he does anything in that area he’d want to come in for approval.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 26

 

 

Mr. Rafey:  The Wetland Regulati= ons are very clear.  It says any activity within the wetlands and 50 foot buffer area is regulated by this C= ommission.  Even if you want to plant tre= es there you have to come back here to get a permit.

 

Mr. Hostetler:  Part of our applicat= ion was I believe I haven’t seen it in a couple of weeks, but I believe it was for construction for a stone wall and also tree removal.

 

Mr. Rafey:  Yes, that is a part of= this application.

 

Mr. Hostetler:  We’ve had one = tree blow over since the site walk, that needs to be simply removed (inaudible).  Also there is a = large pine up where the stone all is going that originally we thought we would le= ave, but probably cause the other one blew over, and that is a large one, itR= 17;s almost right on the sidewalk we were kind of afraid of leaving it now.  I think he’s going to remove= it, he’d like to have that included as part of the tree removal.

 

Mr. Rafey:  Is that a private tr= ee or is that a Town?

 

Mr. Hostetler:  No it’s on his property.

 

Mr. Rafey:  But it’s not wit= hin the right of way?  You should = check with the Public Works Department to make sure it’s your tree and you = can cut it.

 

Mr. Hostetler:  It is.  It’s been surveyed and that = is on the property just by this much maybe, but it is in on the property.

 

Mr. Rafey:  Construction of the = stone wall on that side of the road is a part of the application and that tree is within that area that he wants to put the stone wall.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Yea, well that’= ;s the Town Engineer.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 27

 

 

Mr. Jones:  I don’t quite understand how you’re going to drain this pond but if you have a pipe with which when you open, hopefully the pipe will be a few inches above the silt line and then drain down to that level.  That’s what you hope you have.  If that pipe opens seve= ral inches below the silt line, then you’re going to discharge a lot of mud or s= ilt and so on and I think we’re going to be unhappy about that, depending= on where it goes which we don’t know at this point and also once that happens, when it’s all drained to whatever level it goes to, if there= are springs, you’re still going to have water coming in unless those spri= ngs dry up in the Summer which I think is another thing we don’t know, th= at makes it very difficult to decide whether this is a Significant Activity or not.  I don’t know there= must be some knowledge of draining ponds that people have from previous experien= ces but it seems to me that there is a lot that we don’t know about how t= his is going to work.

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  I think significant ac= tivity has to do with is it how far, does it affect anything else.  This is a self contained pond, and whether you have a little water left or it dries out, I don’t think it affects, my reaction is it doesn’t affect whether it’s signific= ant or not.

 

Mr. Jones:  Okay, would we need th= en at least to prove that this stand pipe or whatever that’s going to be for gravity draining is definitely above the silt level?  Maybe we should at least prove tha= t.

 

Mr. Rafey:  Mr. Chairman, do you= have the definition of a significant activity in the regulations?

 

Mr. Polletta:  Yea, but I think I understand what you’re saying.  You think that the gate is on the bottom, nobody knows where it goes= , so when you open up that gate, where will the water go?  Nobody knows.  And I think your concern is just in case, given hat there is a lot of muck and stuff . . . . .

 

Mr. Jones:  There’s a lot of= muck (inaudible) and it comes up somewhere.

 

Mr. Rafey:  Can you pump it out?

 

Mr. Hostetler:  I as just going to say= , I can control (inaudible).

 

Many people talking at= once (inaudible).

 

Mr. Rafey:  Then you have contro= l over the height of the (inaudible).

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 28

 

 

Mr. Polletta:  But maybe because the= gate is on the bottom, probably there is a pipe that discharges from the gate.  It’s got to make sense.  You know where that gate is on the bottom that you can’t get open?

 

Mr. Hostetler:  (Inaudible) is in wh= at would be described as a small manhole, and if I cold get down there with a little pipe wrench (inaudible).

 

Mr. Polletta:  What’s on the = bottom of that?  Nobody knows what it is.  The bottom of this valve.=   Does water run through there?=

 

Mr. Hostetler:  No.  I think it was put in for the purp= ose of draining it or controlling, probably draining, but it’s probably never been used.  If it has it’= ;s frozen shut by now and it’s just inaccessible.  It’s just a small hole about= 4 feet down.

 

Mr. Polletta:  I hope you understan= d that the concern of this Board, that we don’t know where this stuff and w don’t want to create any problems downstream so I think it’s something . . . . .

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  Well it would be goi= ng to the same place as the overflow in the Winter time goes.

 

Mr. Duplissie:  Yea, it’s not so= much where it’s going it’s what we’re putting into it.  If the silt is draining into it wh= en it goes (inaudible) if he uses a pump, (inaudible).

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  But it’s proba= bly simpler all the way around anyway.

 

Mr. Duplissie:  Then he can control = it that way.

 

Mr. Hostetler:  We can control volum= e and control the quality by how far down we put our suction.  Usually, the pumps unless theyR= 17;re (inaudible) pumps won’t work with a great deal of sediment anyway so there are 3 = or 4 different ways we can control that.  We have no interest in discharging it all downstream either.

 

Mr. Duplissie:  No, you just want to= be able to drain the pump.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 29

 

 

Mr. Hostetler:  Yea, simply to be ab= le to work and there probably will be a certain amount of water left in there especially if there’s flow coming back in, which I would have to say there is, and that’s just something the person at the machine dredging will have to contend with and that’s normal with ponds.

 

Mr. Rafey:  I think there is some technical information in the Guidelines for 2002 Erosion and Sedimentation Control Guide and we can help them show them how to remove the water from t= he pond.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Well I guess we can specify to pump the pond out instead of . . . .

Mr. Rafey:  Probably you will ne= ed a pump because if it’s spring fed the water will come continuously and = you have to have something to remove it.  That’s the safest way to do it.

 

Mr. Duplissie:  You might want to co= nsider using filter fabric on the down side of the pump so that if he is bringing = up silt and mud, if he’s using a mud pump he can bring up mud and if you= go to a filter fabric at least you’ll contain it.  You’ll be sending the water through but not the mud.

 

Mr. Rafey:  I will look at the guidelines and see what the D.E.P. recommends.  You can put a condition on it, to = follow the Guideline of the D.E.P. Erosion and Sedimentation Control 2002.

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  = Okay, so you’ll include that?

 

Mr. Rafey:  Yes.

 

Mr. Undercuffler:  Did we vote on the significance?

 

Mr. Zawadzki:  Not yet.  If we’re through with discus= sion, does anybody feel that it’s a significant activity?=

 

Mr. Polletta:  I don’t think = so.

 

MOTION:<= span style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'>       (Mr. = Jones, sec. Mr. Duplissie) that Application #499 of William Joyce, 325 Woodbury Ro= ad, Watertown, CT for maintenance and digging of an existing pond at 325 Woodbu= ry Road, Watertown is Not a Significant Activity.

&nb= sp;

Discussi= on:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

MOTION P= ASSED UNANIMOUSLY

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 30

 

 

MOTION:<= span style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'>       (Mr. Polletta, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Approve Application #499 of William Joyce,= 325 Woodbury Road, Watertown, CT for maintenance and digging of an existing pon= d at 325 Woodbury Road, Watertown with the standard conditions and the D.E.P. Guidelines and conditions from the Assistant Wetland Enforcement Officer.

&nb= sp;

Discussi= on:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

MOTION P= ASSED UNANIMOUSLY

&nb= sp;

(Tape #3= , Side B ended –may have missed some.)

&nb= sp;

D.        Application #500 of Dr. Ken Neibel and Doris Neibel, 603 Linkfield Road, Waterto= wn, CT for construction of a = plunge pool at 603 Linkfield Road= , Watertown, CT.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   If a Public Hearing is not held, the a decision is required by July 26, 2004.<= o:p>

&nbs= p;

Brian Baker, Licensed Engineer=

 

Mr. Baker:  We walked the site a= bout 3 weeks ago.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  The 22nd.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Baker:  The detail in fron= t of you is what we’re proposing.  The pond is filling up with sediment.  We feel due to some of the activit= ies on the neighboring property, but what we’re proposing is to construct a small plunge pool, sediment basin on the Neibel’s property to prove a little area for some of that sediment to settle out in so they can dig it o= ut, rather than and that will decrease the frequency of them having you dig the entire pond out.  On the walk = the neighbors were there, we did go up and witness the pipe that was installed without a wetlands permit and the modifications that have been made you the channel on the neighboring property that come into the Neibel’s pond,= or producing the silt that we see now.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  On the site walk Mrs. Neibel gave = me some pictures, and I want to show you to see what the situation is there.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Undercuffler:  Is there an= ything that can be done to force some corrective action upstream, Moosa?

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 31

 

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  Upstream on . . . . . . .

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Undercuffler:  Well the neighboring property.  If they’re doing some things or have done some things that have caused, = or let’s say are exacerbating this problem shouldn’t we enforce so= me corrective action up there?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  I’m not sure because Mr. and= Mrs. Neibel don’t own that property and the property owner is not here to agree with that.  If you want = to put that as a condition of approve we can go to the Town Attorney to see if we = can enforce it.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Baker:  I believe there would have to = be some sort of corrective action that the Commission can take if you were in = the middle of the process you would obviously order a cease and desist order and make them come in and give you some sort of plan.  Now that the work has been done, they’ve already put the pipe in and modified the channel, I’m s= ure there has to be some sort of corrective action that the Commission can take= , a Notice of Violation or there has to be something you an do, otherwise what’s= the purpose of the Commission if people can just do what they want in the watercourse and not worry about obtaining a permit.  The pipe was put in.  There’s no outlet protection= on it, there’s no channel at the outlet now.  For me to even come in and propose= a pipe across a wetlands, obviously you would ask for all that engineering detail.  It doesn’t make= any sense for someone to be able to do it and then there’s no repercussio= ns.  I’m sure that there is somet= hing that this Commission could do to let those neighbors know that there should= be some engineering modifications made because what’s happening now is t= here is more sediment coming into the pond than there was previously.=

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Undercuffler:  What in your opinion w= ould have to be done to correct it?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Baker:  Short of pulling the p= ipe out and reestablishing the channel, the way it was originally you’d h= ave to have some sort of outlet protection either to a plunge pool or rip rap p= ad at the outlet of that pipe, and you need to reestablish some sort of channel coming down into the Neibel’s pond.&= nbsp; Right now there is really no channel at the outlet, and when there’s any sort of significant rainfall event, it just washes out ov= er the lawn and drags all the soil and topsoil and sediment into the pond right now, so you need a channel to be reestablished with either rip rap or stone check dam, they need to honestly hire an engineer to prepare some plans for them.  It’s not going to= be an exorbitant amount to have something like that prepared but that’s ult= imately what would have to be done to try to remedy the situation.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 32

 

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Undercuffler:  Has there been any discussion with those neighbors?  Have the Neibel’s talked to them?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Baker:  As I understand th= ere really isn’t, they’ve tried to work together but there really isn’t a working relationship now, it’s sort of gone beyond that point, cause there were some other issues of the neighbors riding ATV’= ;s on their property and trespassing and at this point the relationship isn’t at that point.  So= we would obviously hope for approve of what our application is to have the Neibel’s be able to put in the plunge pool and we would ask that the Commission look into or consider some sort of corrective action up on the neighboring property.  We̵= 7;d certainly be willing to work with the neighbors, as far as the engineers, if they would want and they could hire whoever they want, but we’re fami= liar with the area, if they give us a call and have us prepare something for the= m we could certainly do that.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Polletta:  The day of the field trip, that Saturday, upstream I saw that the side of the gallery there was no stones, = no nothing.  Apparently somebody = did some work.  It looks like you = got to go beyond their house because there are stones missing all over the place, = so when you have a lot of rain it looks like it digs right unto the bank and a= ll the erosion comes down.  I agr= ee with you, by you putting that little plunge pool at the end I don’t t= hink you’re going to resolve the problem, so I think (inaudible) this Commission to send the neighbor a letter and saying they did something agai= nst code and I think we should demand it to be correct, otherwise we will never= have it fixed and all this dirt keeps going into the pond.  I think it’s a beautiful pon= d and I think this Board could send a letter so maybe they could come and spend a little bit of money and have it fixed even for their own property it will l= ook better, because by looking at the pictures it looks like it’s a pond behind their house and when we went there it wasn’t even raining, but some of the pictures, I guess, they don’t lie, so I would urge this B= oard to send a letter to the neighbors that they did it without permission and t= hey should get an engineer and have it designed.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  Do we know how long th= at pipe has been there, when that was done?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  I think about 2 years?=   But this issue came to the Commiss= ion once.  I received a letter fro= m Mr. Neibel an I put it on the Agenda and the Commission said by removing the pipe they would cause more disturbance but there is no outlet protection on it (inaudible).  It’s up to= the Commission, that if you want to put a condition that the neighbor come here and submit another application but I wish this was like a joint application for the en= tire project.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 33

 

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Undercuffler:  I don’t see how = we could put a condition on these people.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  I wish the homeowner w= as here so we could discuss this with him, get permission for him to go on his property if you want to . . . . .I can write a letter and send it to him.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Undercuffler:  I don’t see how = we can put a condition on the Neibel’s that they have to get approval from somebody else.  I think we oug= ht to go directly after the neighbors and ask them to do something to correct the problem, their end of the problem.  I think it’s two separate issues.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  What Mr. Neibel is proposing, this is totally on their property.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Undercuffler:  Right, yea.=

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  And I guess they can s= till do that.

&nb= sp;

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  Mr. Berger was there w= ith me a few times.  Any comments?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Berger:  I have no objection to= the installation of a plunge pool in the pond and I agree that there is no outl= et protection nor any stabilization measures on the upstream channel.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  How effective do you t= hink the plunge pool is going to be?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Baker:  I believe it will do i= ts job, it will trap sediment in your moderate storms.  In a bigger storm, all the water in Town, even in your most pristine trout brook will be brown.  It will do it, but we’re dea= ling with a limited area.  We only = have about 15 feet of property to work with on that side of the pond, so without= any corrective measures as far as what’s creating the sediment load, that’s probably going to have to be with a shovel and wheelbarrow will have to be dug out after every few storms.=   There’s going to be sediment in there.  It will work, it’s just a ma= tter of maintenance frequency.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  Maintaining it.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Undercuffler:  Well it localizes the = silt, gets it in one spot, so you clean it out there rather than throughout the w= hole pond.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Baker:  Right.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 34

 

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  Yea, cause I was think= ing as one of the conditions for approval on this would be to specify that the plu= nge pool would need to be cleaned out as required but I guess that goes without saying from the Neibel’s standpoint.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Baker:  Right, they obviously = want to keep their pond, the whole point is to keep the pond clean.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Peluso:  They choose to do this= .

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Duplissie:  Well the plunge pool won’t hurt it.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Baker:  No.<= /p>

&nb= sp;

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  That’s why I say= . . . . .

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Duplissie:  If they don’t ma= intain it, then it's just going to go right over, it will fill up and go back into= the pond.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Baker:  It will be like it wasn’t there, if it’s not maintained it will fill in and be basically be operating like it does now.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  Yea, I don’t thi= nk there’s a question about the value of the plunge pool, but it’s= a question of what can be done upstream.&nbs= p; Well the present owners the same ones that were here before the Commission 2 years ago?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  Yes.=

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  So what was the outcom= e of that?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey  When they put the pipe= in they didn’t get a permit from this Commission.  The issue came to the Commission a= nd at that time you decided not to remove it because removing the pipe will distu= rb the channel, so you thought it was better to just leave it there.  But now if you want I can just wri= te a letter back to them the Commission has some concern about this.<= /span>

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Duplissie:  If you told them to le= ave it there at one point, and now we’re going to pull them back in and say = no, we changed our mind?

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Many people talking at once (inaudible).

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Undercuffler:  There’s two year= s of experience.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Baker:  But we’re not sa= ying to necessarily remove the pipe, we’re saying there needs to be some s= ort of outlet protection on the outlet side of the pipe.  I believe when they came in before= there was never a site walk scheduled nobody went out and looked at exactly what = the situation is.  It was just a m= atter of sorry we put a pipe in and the Commission rightfully said it probably ma= kes more sense to leave it in, but at that point I don’t think anybody we= nt out and took a look and saw what was happening downstream of the pipe and that’s what we’re dealing with=   now.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Duplissie:  Can we force them to d= o rip rap swale?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  I can write a letter.<= o:p>

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  We can write a letter.=   I think we ought to do both, go wi= th the plunge pool and issue a letter.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  (Inaudible) legally (inaudible) the Commission recommended that you take care of this problem.<= o:p>

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  Certainly let the Neib= el’s build the plunge pool and we could write a letter.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  It’s either betw= een a plunge pool and the outlet of the pipe.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Baker:  Ultimately that’s where we feel a majority of the sediment is being produced and that’s probably what’s the most easily remedied too.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Polletta:  What’s the dimen= sions of that plunge pool?  How big = is it?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey  10 x 10.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Polletta:  And how deep is it?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Baker:  2 feet.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  You have a drawing.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Polletta:  Yea, I know, I was loo= king for it but I couldn’t find it.  So you’re saying you don’t want to construct this until something is done?

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Baker:  No, we’d like to= have our application approved and to construct it, and obviously anything that happens above the property any modification will only improve and lesson the frequency of the maintenance on the plunge pool.  So yea, we’d like approval to install that as soon as possible.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  Any other discussion?<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  We need a Motion to determine whet= her this is Significant Activity?

 

        &= nbsp;   MOTION:       (Mr. = Jones, sec. Mr. Duplissie) that Application #500 of Dr. Ken Neibel and Doris Neibe= l, 603 Linkfield Road, Watertown, CT for construction of a plunge pool at 603 Linkfield Road, Watertown, CT is Not a Significant Activity.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Discussion:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;   MOTION:       (Mr. Polletta, sec. Mr. Beauchamp) to Approve Application #500 of Dr. Ken Neibel= and Doris Neibel, 603 Linkfield Road, Watertown, CT for construction of a plunge pool at 603 Linkfield Road, Watertown, CT, subject to standard conditions.<= /p>

 

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Discussion:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

&nb= sp;

6.     &nb= sp;   New Applications

&nb= sp;

A.&n= bsp;            = ;    A.   = ;     Application #501 of Reid and Leslie Black, 73 Black Rock Road, Watertown, for construct= ion of a shed at 73 Black Rock Road, Watertown, CT.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        If a Public Hearing is not held, then a decision is required by August 13, 200= 4.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Leslie Black, 73 Black Rock Road, Waterto= wn, CT&nbs= p; 06795

 

   &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;        Ms. Black:  We want to put in a prefab 12 x 24= shed like you get at Coder Farms right, which I think the picture is in on of the applications.  We had a soil scientist come and I believe you have his report also.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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PAGE 37

 

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  Mr. Chairman, Mrs. Black made an application to build a shed.  = That application was for a zoning permit and I went to the property to check the setback requirements and I noticed there was a wet area so I thought maybe there was some wetlands there, and I talked to Mr. and Mrs. Black about that.  They hired a soil scien= tist and it came out there is some poorly drained soils which qualify as wetland soils.  And the shed that they propose is within the 50 foot buffer zone.=   It’s not inside the wetland area.  I think the closest corner of the = shed is going to be about 30 feet away fro the wetlands.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Polletta:  And our regulations call for 50.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  Yes.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Zawadzki:  Do we have a plot plan on that?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  No.  I received the application just after I put the packet together, it = was ready to be mailed so I didn’t write a memo.  I just send this application to ma= ke sure it’s on the agenda for this sheeting.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Zawadzki:  Well this isn’t much of a sk= etch here.  I think we need to look= at it and maybe get a better sketch that has some dimensions on it and give us an idea.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  If you look at this drawing here I= just want to give just a little bit of area, look at this drawing, this is Black Rock Road.  And this is the existing driveway = to the house.  They want to put a sma= ll driveway next to this and then the shed here.  This is the wetland area.  I measured from here to corner of = the shed and it’s about 30 feet.  And because 50 feet of the wetland buffer area is regulated and the entire shed and this driveway is in the 50 foot buffer zone.  That is why they’re in front= of you tonight.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  How much elevation change is there= from here to here?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  Probably half a foot or 6 or 8 inc= hes.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Ms. Sturgis:  Did you say they want to add a dri= veway in the wetlands buffer area?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  The existing driveway is in th= e 50 foot buffer zone.  They just w= ant to put a little branch on the driveway and then put a . . . . .

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

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PAGE 38

 

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Black:  That’s alrea= dy existing.  All we want to do i= s add a few more inches of stone to put the prefab shed on.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  What is the shed to be used for?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Black:  Just storage because we have a very small ranch with a single car garage and she can barely fit her car in there with all the lawn mowers, leaf blowers, and stuff.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  So are you parking cars in there?<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Black:  No, we’re not putting cars.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  So lawn mowers and . . . .

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Black:  Other things that = are taking up space in the garage.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Duplissie:  What is going = to be the floor of this shed?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Black:  It’s all . . . . .

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  I don’t have that.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:   Is it a poured foundation?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Black:  No.  You don’t need it according to the State.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  It’s framed.  It looks like you’ve got sle= epers underneath it 4 x 4 sleepers underneath with a wood floor, right?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Black:  Yea, it’s all pressured trea= ted.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  5/8 pressure treated and you’= ;re 30 feet from the corner, and they’re putting in mowers and gasoline.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Black:  I don’t know about gasoline.<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  I’m asking.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  I believe that’s a modificat= ion to the building code that they don’t have to put a foundation.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 39

 

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Ms. Sturgis:  Even though it&#= 8217;s within the 50 foot buffer, they don’t have to it the foundation?=

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  No, it’s a building requirement.  But they got a modification from the State of Connecticut, they don’t have to do it, and this is acceptable by the Building Department.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Undercuffler:  What was the grounds for the modif= ication?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  I think it depends on the size of = the shed.  If it goes beyond 200 s= q. ft. then you have to have a foundation, but if you go to the State and get a modification, you can bring it to the Building Inspector and they cannot require this.  It’s kind= of like a variance from the State to the Building Code.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Black:  (Inaudible) original modification (inaudible).

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Rafey:  This is for the Bu= ilding Department.  I will make a cop= y and put it in the pile here.  Mr. Chairman, anyway you cannot make a decision tonight on this application.  You have to wait 14 days in case s= omeone submits a petition for a Public Hearing.&n= bsp; If you want you can go before the next meeting and look at this.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Black:  Did you have the report from Henry Moeller?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Rafey:  Yes, the Commissio= n has a copy of the soil scientist report.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Black:  If you read the se= cond page, 2nd and 3rd paragraph it sort of describes what little use that little wetland is.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Rafey:  This area was dist= urbed during the construction of the house and the original driveway.  There is some filling on top of the wetland soils but because the underneath is fully drained soil, it’s still qualifies as wetland soil.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  I definitely think we should take = a look at it.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Polletta:  Field trip?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Zawadzki:  Yes.  I need a Motion to conduct a field= trip.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

JUNE 10, 2004

PAGE 41

 

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   MOTION:       (Mr. Polletta, sec. Mr. Thermer) to Table and Schedule a Field Trip for Applicat= ion #501 of Reid and Leslie Black, 73 Black Rock Road, Watertown<= /st1:address>, for construction of a shed at 73 Black Rock Road, Watertown,= CT.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Discussion:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;   B        &= nbsp; Application #502 of David Leo, 1011 Mi= ddlebury Road, Watertown, CT request for a permit to fill a regulated wetland area at = 1011 Middlebury Road, Watertown,= CT.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   If a Public Hearing is not held, then a decision is required by August 13, 200= 4.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Zawadzki:  We looked at th= is on the 22nd of May, field trip.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  This is a copy of the application.=   It was submitted on June 8th<= /sup>.  (Tape #4, Side A ended – may= have missed some)

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   David Leo, 1011 Middlebury Road, Water= town, CT&nbs= p; 06795

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Leo:  I was thinking of filling it in gradually.  I mean it just got= out of hand this year.  I put up a= sign, free fill, and they just kept bringing it and bringing it.  It was really moving a little quic= ker than I expected it to.  What I= would like to do is fill in down that embankment if I may.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  Well at this point you realize that that’s not allowed, to fill in wetlands.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Leo:  Like I said it got out of hand.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Zawadzki:  Well did you kn= ow it before that?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Leo:  Yes.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Undercuffler:  But even so= then you were filling in wetlands?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  But only a small por= tion of it.  It got out of hand qui= cker than, I started telling the contractors that were bringing the fill to take= it easy.  I work long hours and w= hen I came home at the end of the night I had mounds of dirt there and I slowed it down a lot but by that time (inaudible).

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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PAGE 41

 

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Polletta:  Do you know where the wetlands beg= in and end?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Leo:  No.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Many people talking at once (inaudible).

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Leo:<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  I’m trying to find the plans= .

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  I had a copy of the plot plan that= they submitted for the house.  As y= ou can see the wetlands are here and this is the 50 foot buffer zone.  The activity that Mr. Leo was doin= g was in the 50 foot buffer zone, not in the wetlands.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Polletta:  So he’s n= ot in the wetlands?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  He’s not in the wetlands.  It’s in the 50 foot buffer a= rea.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Zawadzki:  So his property boundary is actual= ly before the wetlands.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  Yes, the wetlands are actually= on the next property.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  Which is my father-i= n-law.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Polletta:  So he was not f= illing in the wetlands then?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  No, not directly into the wetl= ands, no, within the 50 foot buffer area.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  And this little piece is where he spilled onto the wetlands.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  Actually this area and up to here.=

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Polletta:  The only thing that morning when t= hat scared me that you allowed anything in there.  I mean there were spools of wire, = tires, steel, you name it, was in there.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Leo:<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  I’ve never seen that and I do monitor it very closely.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Polletta:  When we were there that day, on the embankment, there was quite a bit of debris that morning.=

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Leo:<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  I’m very unaware of that.  I would not allow that.=


CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Polletta:  Maybe you don’t know, but it’s in there.  For your= own good though you should check it.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Leo:<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  The people that I’m dealing = with have a full understanding that I don’t even want anything that could possibly (inaudible) contamination in it.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Polletta:  There was some metal, a tire, a spool of wire, not wire, but I mean a wood spool.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  That’s ours, that’s not even going to be in there.  That’s off to the side.=

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Polletta:  You’re not going to bury it?=

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Leo:  No.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Duplissie:  I wasn’t on the site walk.  Is there a silt fence?<= /span>

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  Yes, they put a silt fence after I talked to them.  Actually what happened I went there and I noticed they were putting fill in the regulated area.  I issued a Notice of Violation and I made some recommendation to Mr. Leo to put a silt fence and= to stop bringing additional fill and put a sign there, and whatever I told them they did it right away.  They = stopped bringing more materials, and there are two signs there, no dumping.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Leo:<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  Because I did put a sign (inaudibl= e).

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  And then they put a silt fence in = the back.  I’m satisfied wit= h the response that Mr. Leo did, unfortunately it’s something that was alre= ady done.  My recommendation would= be to just bring some topsoil in, and then seed it and then go further closer to = the wetlands.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Undercuffler:  Is the stone wall on that plan?  He’s showing a stone wall he= re on the back and I’m wondering . . . .

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Leo:<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  That’s what I was going to a= sk for more of that.  I would like to= green that down there to make it more of a lawn so, I have no front yard and I ha= ve utility poles in the front of my house.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  This house had a larger front yard= but if you remember . . . .  yes, = Middlebury Road, and then they lost a lot of land in front of the house after they did the realignment of Middlebury = Road and Bunker Hill and now you can see the = houses so it’s exposed and that’s why they want to have a back yard in= the back.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Undercuffler:  Well he’s showing 60 feet fr= om the stone wall and I take it the bank starts up, the embankment, that’s w= hat you’re saying here?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Leo:  No, it goes all the way from the b= ack of the house, (inaudible) 25 feet, then (inaudible).

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Undercuffler:  Shows 40 feet . . . .

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Many people talking at once (inaudible).

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  The drawing that you gave with the application.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Leo:<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  Yea okay, it’s 40 feet to li= ke the property line here and then this whole incline goes down and then thereR= 17;s the stone wall, and that’s the 60 feet.  Right now these 2 oak trees, one o= f them fell over, the other is dying, I wanted to remove it.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Undercuffler:  Is this on your property, the stone wall?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  Actually it’s = my father-in-law’s.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Undercuffler:  Okay, where is the property line?<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  It’s here.  And this is all hill, all sloped, = and these are all hills here.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Undercuffler:  So when we look down to the bottom= , your property line is at the bottom for that hill we were standing on the top of.  So this is all wetlands d= own here.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Polletta:  (Inaudible) a wall across like thi= s?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  No, I don’t wa= nt to put a wall in here.  That̵= 7;s an existing rock wall that we built, but I just wanted to clean all this up he= re (inaudible).  I was hoping tha= t I could (inaudible) that, and not put anything on it, but just grass so maybe= the kids can play and stuff.  Just= get them away from the front here with the utility pole, 6 feet in and then 19 = feet of wires right in my yard.

&nb= sp;

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Polletta:  Yea, so you could slope from here = down.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Leo:  Right, I’ll keep the slope, I don’t want to add anything to it, I just want to clean it up.

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&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Rafey:  This map doesnR= 17;t show the stone wall.  Can you = show us where the stone wall is on here?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Leo:<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  The stone wall would be way back h= ere actually.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Undercuffler:  This shows 85 feet.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Duplissie:  This shows 85 = feet from your house to the property line and yet you’re showing . . . . .=

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Undercuffler:  You show 100 feet here.=

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie  So the rock walk is over here?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  I’m saying it’s further back.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Duplissie:  You’re saying this line over= here is 40 feet and you were saying that was the property line.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Zawadzki:  You’re saying your property = line must be right here.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  Yea, it’s my property line and then my in-law’s, I butt up against them and that’s theirs.  And they don’t care if I cleaned it up, I mean if it was okay.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  But this map shows that the proper= ty line is 85 feet (inaudible).

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Leo:  And it’s showing it’s = mine, you’re saying?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Rafey:  Yes.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Leo:<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  We don’t have the actual pri= nts that states since all these changes have been made.  We haven’t been able to find= out anything.  I mean this is all = new to me.  I’ve seen this, but= I don’t really understand that (inaudible).

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Polletta:  So whatever you think is your father-in-law’s is yours.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  (Inaudible).

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Zawadzki:  (Inaudible).

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&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  This 40 inch oak is on your property.  So you’ve got= this 85 feet and it looks like that 40 inch oak is about 60 feet from your house, according to this.  Is this th= e one that fell over or is dying?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  Yes.  There is one dead and the other on= e fell over.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Duplissie:  So these are on your property, acc= ording to this map.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Leo:  Yes.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Duplissie:  And you though= t they were on your father-in-law’s.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Leo:<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  I believe so, yes.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie:  But these property lines, these ar= e the back property liens, they haven’t changed?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  No.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Duplissie:  It was only the front yard that ch= anged.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Leo:  Yes.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Rafey:  This is the origin= al location of Middlebury Roa= d and now it is here.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Duplissie:  Correct, he lost about 70 feet.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Leo:  Cause this is actually less, that’s about 30 feet, it’s showing 37 and 42.=

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Undercuffler:  Do you own = that property all the way out?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Leo:<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  (Inaudible).

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Undercuffler:  It wasn’t a city right of way before they moved it over?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  No, he sold that pro= perty to them.  But they even questi= oned the amount that was taken, but that’s a whole different thing.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Duplissie:  You can get a copy of this from Mo= osa.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  I do have that.=


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  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Duplissie:  Now we’re trying to regulate= how much fill has been put here, but he’s already filled past the 50 foot boundary?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Undercuffler:  Correct.  Moosa is recommending he covers wh= at he’s got with topsoil and seed it.&n= bsp; What is your thinking down at the bottom of the hill?  Same thing?

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Rafey:  I think if they cr= eate like a 2:1 slope at the bottom because right now there’s a drop.  They can just make it gentle, 2:1 = and then put some topsoil and seed it.  It wasn’t just let the natural vegetation to come back and they shouldn’t seed the bottom area.  Still there are some roots and . . . . .

 

  &nbs= p;                 &= nbsp;   Mr. Undercuffler:  That’s what he is requesting= to make that a lawn down there.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  It’s up to the Commission.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Polletta:  That day that w= e were there, the bottom was not really like wet that you could walk on it, so if it’s wetland soil and could be mowed to use it for the kids, I don’t see a problem with that, unless there is like water and that’s a different ball game.  Do you have to fill it in?

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Leo:<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  No, no.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Polletta:  You could just clean it and mow it= is the kids can use it for playing.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  Actually what I was = doing was we scraped the top about 2 inches cause it’s good topsoil, and that’s what we were going to put on the top once we graded that down = to a nice, we know it’s always going to be a hill and we were going to do = that and then put the topsoil.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  I just want to make a recommendation.  What if I giv= e you copy of this map tomorrow in the office and then you show on this map what exactly you want to do and how far you want to go and then next month this = item will be on the agenda and you can look on the plan.  It’s hard to see how far he c= an or cannot go.  If you can show on= this map what you want to do then I’ll give it to the Commission to look at it.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Zawadzki:  Yea, we may want to go back out th= ere.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Rafey:  Can you mark the a= rea that you want to fill for the lawn so the Commission can go back and look at it?

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  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Leo:<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>  Sure.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey:  Okay, it will be on July 10th= .

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Leo:  I’ll be on vac= ation on July 10th.

 

  &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;        Mr. Rafey:  You can mark it before that day.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Leo:  Yes, I’ll do that.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;    = ;           Mr. Zawadzki:  W can do this a= fter July 10th also.