MINUTES<= o:p>
CONSERVA=
TION
COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR
MEETING
THURSDAY=
, JULY
15, 2004 - 7:30 PM
PRESENT: =
; &n=
bsp; =
; Bernard
Beauchamp
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Glen
Duplissie
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Ron
Jones, Secretary
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Joseph
Polletta
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Charles
Thermer
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Edwin
Undercuffler, Vice Chairman
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; James
Zawadzki, Chairman
ABSENT: &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; =
None
ALTERNATES PRESENT: =
; Peter
Peluso
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Martha
Sturgis
ALTERNATES ABSENT: =
; Susan
Atwood
OTHERS PRESENT: =
; &n=
bsp; Chuck
Berger, Town Engineer
=
; &n=
bsp; =
; &n=
bsp; =
; Moosa Rafey, Assistant
Zoning Enforcement Officer
1. =
Call
Meeting To Order
Mr.
Zawadzki, Chairman, called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
2. &nb=
sp; Roll
Call
Mr.
Jones, Secretary, executed the Roll Call.
3. =
Public
Participation
Mary Barton, Town Planner, Zoning and Wetland
Officer
Ms. Barton: At the last meeting =
there
was a presentation, an issue brought to the attention of the Commission
regarding some silt (inaudible) and the storm water system on Burke and
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 2
I would stress to the members of the Fire District (inaudible). I really do beli= eve it’s a violation of the Inland/Wetlands Regulations, but unfortunately what it is is that (inaudible) Fire District and they do help, (inaudible). It sounds to me = like either someone has a washing machine or an old drain they connected and (inaudible) or they have connected to a sewer or they have reconnected to s= ome other type of system, so I think one of the reasons why Mr. O’Sullivan brought it up, and I know he and Mr. Berger tried to get the Fire District = to help, is that most of the people are on water and sewer so it’s proba= bly some kind of cross connection or someone hooked up an old washing machine t= o a (inaudible) water system, I don’t know. So if you would like this letter, = any changes, do you want it from the whole Commission, caus= e I think they’d be going in and checking cause they have concerns about the water supply, I marked off the ones that were recommended by (inaudible). I marked off the= spot where here the one that was tested and nothing came up. (Inaudible) #1= 15, #206, #280. I tend to = think #280 wouldn’t be it cause it's a relativel= y new house so, but I would, with your permission, if you don’t have any problems with this letter, (inaudible) and go to the Fire District and talk= to them at their meeting and ask them for their help. Go ahead and read it and if you ha= ve any changes, just let me know (inaudible).
Mr. Undercuffler: It looks good to me.
Mr. Peluso: With the dye test,
that’s obviously done in the person’s washing machine, right, a=
nd
not just sewer?
Ms. Barton= : Yes. I remember (inaudible) the sanitar= ian in a former life, (inaudible) washing machine. I guess this one didn’t show up. Usually when they run it,= in my experience you would see it in a relatively short period of time, but it ha= s to be somebody that has either hooked up a washing machine to an old pipe or I don’t know what they did. Maybe we have to actually go into the basement. I think the Fire District has the = right for entry cause they’re worried about cross connection for their water supply, so it would make more sense if they went with us if we do the inspection, I guess they’ve been a little bit hesitant.
Mr. Duplissie: It’s not neces=
sarily
an illegal discharge, it could be a failed
system. And then when it rain=
s, you
get the surface water runoff that’s going into the roof where a failed
system would just sit there in the area, but yet when you get the rain it
washes down and there’d be a (inaudible) every time it rains.
Ms. Barton: I don’t think
it’s a septic, I think it’s a grey water system. So it could be that, that someone =
has an existing grey water so we go check these to see if =
they
never hooked into the public sewer when they got the sewer buy and that cou=
ld
be it. Until we go through an=
d look
and see but that would make more sense, the Fire District is more familiar,
they have to be in some of these houses in a period of time to do cross
connection inspections, I would think, and it would just be easier. If you look at the Fire District,
(inaudible) I do and I don’t, (inaudible) cause
we don’t do the zoning in that part of Town.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 3
Mr. Zawadzki: Well this letter loo=
ks
good to me. I don’t see=
any
problems.
Mr. Rafey: Do you want the name=
s of
the entire Commission to be on this, or just from the Chairman?
Mr. Zawadzki: =
No, I think it’s fine the way it is.
Dennis O’Sullivan,
Mr.
O’Sulllivan: I was =
here
last month and brought this issue of suds in the brook to your attention.
Mr. Zawadzki: =
Correct, well we menti=
oned
that at last month’s meeting we would draft a letter to the Watertown
Fire District and that was what we were discussing when you walked in, and
it’s here in front of me now and this is a violation of the Inland/We=
tland
Regulations for Watertown as far as having soap discharge into the brook, s=
o I
think they have to take a look at it.
Mr. O’Sullivan: W=
ell
clearly they, and there is a member of the Commission, maybe he could
illuminate their position, but it’s my understanding that they will n=
ot
initiate anything, they will only act in support, and that’s troublin=
g to
me, but maybe the Commissioner who is here has a clearer understanding and =
can
put a different shade on that position.
Mr. Beauchamp: I’m the Commissi=
oner
he’s talking about. We =
did
have a meeting Monday night and as Mr. O’Sullivan said, they feel they
should not be the lead agency in this matter, but they are definitely on re=
cord
as willing to help in any way they can.&nb=
sp;
I suggest that whoever is going to work on this work directly with E=
rnie
Coppock at the Fire District.
We’re ready to cooperate.
Ms. Barton: My opinion is is that
it’s a violation of the Regulations of the Wetland Commission so the
regulatory authority rests with the Westland Agency so staff will pursue it,
with a little help, cause they’re a little familiar with it and I thi=
nk
they help quicker, so I’ll to the meeting on August 9th an=
d we
will set something up to resolve, to find it, we’ll set up a couple of
times to go and do some dye tests.
Mr. Zawadzki: = Yea, and that was our primary concern last time was accessibility to the hones.<= o:p>
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 4
Ms. Barton: Well if we have the =
Fire
District, and I think Mr. Smith, the Sanitarian, with the right of access a=
nd
the Fire District also because of the water system, I’m not sure, but=
we
will work together to get access.
Mr. O’Sullivan: Final question, is the=
re a
timeframe? As I understood it=
at
the last meeting, this letter was going to be prepared and a copy sent to t=
he
Fire District for their last meeting.
Now they’ve had two meetings since I came here. Are we now going to wait another m=
onth
for the Fire District, or is it possible to move this up on somebody’s
Agenda? Why can’t this =
be
initiated say tomorrow?
Mr. Zawadzki: Well I don’t h=
ave
any knowledge of the workings of the Fire District. Maybe Bernie can help us on that, =
but
the plan here was to take this to the next meeting and present it in person,
and I assume they’ll take action on their Agenda as we do here, at th=
eir
meetings. Bernie, would you c=
are to
comment on that?
Mr. Beauchamp: Just that well I (inau=
dible)
Superintendent of the Fire District is on record as saying he is ready to
cooperate with anyone who approaches him.
Mr. Zawadzki: Would it do any good=
to
mail this directly to him or is it better to take it to the meeting?
Mr. Beauchamp: He’s aware of the
situation. In fact I think th=
ey did
try to do some testing already at one time and I think, isn’t this
intermittent, though? It does=
n’t
occur all the time?
Mr. O’Sullivan: I
brought in a tabulation; I take my dogs out a couple a times a day and I
brought in a tabulation and gave it to the Commission, and in March I saw it
every morning, and I brought in photographs that showed at times, now I take
the dogs out at a time that they may not be washing or maybe a time factor I
don’t know, but I had a log that I gave you, and I’m not sure w=
here
it’s at, it’s probably in your files, but it was almost a daily
occurrence in March. Now I no=
ticed
that it is somewhat less, but I did see suds in the brook not too long ago,
I’m talking about a day or two ago, but I can’t say that I saw =
it
all the time. It is related t=
o the
level of water, so it may be something that percolates into the ground , and it might also be related to temperature, =
but I
did have a log that showed in March that it was almost daily and there were=
two
occurrences where I had enough suds to make that discharge look like an
industrial dump going into the brook.
Mr. Beauchamp: I was not a Commission=
er in
March and I don’t have any knowledge.
Mr. O̵= 7;Sullivan: I’m not blaming you, but I w= as hoping that you would motivate people to get moving on this. I’ve been wrestling with thi= s with those that knew about it for more than 2 years. This is not a new occurrence.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 5
Ms. Barton: (Inaudible). I’ll work something out with=
Mr.
Coppock to start working on the process (inaudible) to make sure that they'=
re
aware and the Commission wants to file, cause th=
is is
a violation of the Wetland Regulations.
Mr. Zawadzki: Okay, I think it wou=
ld
probably be a good idea to mail it.
Ms. Barton: (Inaudible).
Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, I think if you =
could
just approach Mr. Coppock right away.
Ms. Barton: Not a problem.
Mr. O’Sullivan: If ther= e is a plan, quite frankly I don’t know what the problem might be to get this resolved within the next week. To wait around now for another meeting and then I’m ready, you’re = not ready, that business, I’m fed up, I’m sure you are the same, we’re not at different odds here, but I think it’s a travesty to have this condition go on in our community when we’re trying to maint= ain a high level of quality of living in these brooks and that is not happening right in front of my house. I’ve had suds in the brook in March every day.
Mr. Jones: Are the people that are
targeted here as the potential causers of the problem, have they all been
informed and is there any chance that they might be feeling that they
don’t want to admit they made a mistake, but if they were given some =
sort
of information that they would be forgiven if they corrected the problem th=
at
they would be able to do it overnight? Maybe someone knows he’s the
problem but he doesn’t want to raise his hand. Have those people been informed th=
at
this problem exists? I don=
217;t
even know that.
Ms. Barton: The only one I know =
is
Mr. Polletta: =
Mr. O’Sullivan, =
was
this ever tested? Do you know=
what
it is? Was this tested by som=
ebody?
Mr. O’Sullivan: Soaps and suds.
Mr. Polletta: =
But we don’t know
exactly what it is. Do you th=
ink it’s soap or you don’t know?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 6
Mr. O’Sullivan: I=
have
no idea. =
It’s
suds. It’s foam from so=
me
sort. It is there and then pe=
rhaps
later on in the day it’s not there.
Mr. Polletta: =
The reason why I’=
;m
asking that question is because if a washing machine, if it’s soap, it
can probably be detected easier. If
it’s something from a sewage system, cause=
that
happened before in
Mr. O’Sullivan: I’= ;m a citizen, I live on the street. I go to the Health Department and I say there are suds in the brook. That department did whatever they = did.
Mr. Berger: Bob Smith from the
Torrington Area Health believes that it’s soap suds coming from . . .=
. .
Mr. Polletta: So he did test it?
Mr. Berger: I don’t know if
tested it. I think he felt it=
was
either coming from a washing machine or a (inaudible).
Mr. O’Sullivan: I=
would
hope that when I come next month we have it resolved.
Mr. Zawadz= ki: I hope so too.
Mr. Jones: May I add one though=
t,
that if it’s possible that this could be resolved without being a
bureaucratic concern, with either of our groups involved, to simply inform =
the
people and it’s possible that someone may say they made a mistake, an=
d as
long as they know they’re not going to be in trouble, they’ll
correct it, we might resolve this thing quicker.
Ms. Barton: Tomorrow I will go a=
nd
knock on doors and tell them what’s going on.
Mr. Duplissie: Thank you, Mar= y.
4. =
Action
on Minutes
&=
nbsp; A. Continuation
of Public Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #415, Cathie Caton &=
nbsp; B. =
Continuation
of Public Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #421, YMCA &nbs=
p; C. Continuation
of Public Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #422, Mary Ann Cathcart &=
nbsp; D. Public
Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #423, Mark Lovely &=
nbsp; E. =
Public
Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #424, Domenic DiNunzio &=
nbsp; F. =
Public
Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #425, New Millennium Development, Inc. &nbs=
p; G. Regular
Meeting, May 10, 2001 &=
nbsp; H. Continuation
of Public Hearing, July 12, 2001, App. #423, Mark Lovely &=
nbsp; I. &=
nbsp; Continuation
of Public Hearing, July 12 2001, App. #424, Domenic DiNunzio &=
nbsp; J. &=
nbsp; Continuation
of Public Hearing, July 12, 2001, App. #425, New Millennium Development, In=
c. CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 15, 2004 PAGE 7 K. Public
Hearing July 12, 2001, App. #428, Echo L. =
Regular
Meeting, July 12, 2001 M. Public
Hearing, May 26, 2004, App. #495, Patrick Graziano &=
nbsp; N. Regular
Meeting, May 26, 2004 &=
nbsp; O. Continuation
of Pubic Hearing, June 10, 2004, App. #495, Patrick Graziano &=
nbsp; P. =
Regular
Meeting, June 10, 2004 &=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Polletta, sec. Mr. Beauchamp) to Table Items #4A through 4P. &=
nbsp; Discussion: None<=
o:p> &=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY 5. =
Pending
Applications &=
nbsp; A. Application
#495 of Patrick Graziano, proposed 4-lot Willowbrook Farm Subdivision
Northfield Road, Watertown in an R-30 Residential Zoning District. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; A
decision is required by August 13, 2004. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms. Barton: I would like to explain
(inaudible). (Inaudible)
for this application for the Planning and Zoning and Conservation Commissio=
n. As you read and saw in both public
hearings and staff comment, the applicant has revised their application bas=
ed
upon what is from staff level. What
I did provide to you right there was a copy of the conservation restriction
documents, including all of the restrictions that would be on this conserva=
tion
easement area, and the (inaudible) 3 and 3 lists the conditions that are in
there and it talks about the horse (inaudible) and manure management that w=
ould
be part of the conservation docs.
And if you remember this really came out of the staff review by myse=
lf
and Mr. Berger to discuss some of the things that were going on. (Inaudible.) &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
you’re familiar, this is CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 15, 2004 PAGE 8 &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; The
Plan of Development right now calls for the development of hiking trails and
pathways, and in the update of the Plan of Development we’ve been tal=
king
about, the Commissioners and myself, trails along Steele Brook which is
definitely (inaudible) and if you’re aware, probably the past 2, 3 ye=
ars,
The Siemon Company owns Heminway Park.&nbs=
p;
They've been trying to look for ways to give it to the Town and poss=
ibly
rework the stream and get rid of the pond and make it dry because the pond =
was
made as an impoundment I guess for fire (inaudible) and probably when Phil
Deleppo was here I think all of the departments (inaudible) and the D.E.P. =
was
very interested because (inaudible) water problem in Steele Brook so that w=
ould
be a start, and they just finished some sediment testing that the D.E.P. pa=
id
for and it’s actually very good.&nbs=
p;
They’re the ones that have the funding and (inaudible) potenti=
ally
contaminated so with that in mind, that would be like the start of the trail
and the Town gets that with parking, but if you look at this, Heminway Pond=
is
right over here, (inaudible). This
one makes more sense. You can=
come
down along Steele Brook and actually get to Heminway Pond. It’s not (inaudible) along t=
he
brook, it might be on a sidewalk, but (inaudible) pond, it’s
part of the greenway. And the=
entry
from this piece of property right here has frontage out on &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; The
only thing, this storm does pass, this area woul=
d be
the Town would still retain easements there for future water rand sewer cau=
se
the plan for the Town there is the potential for water and sewer to go acro=
ss
Steele Brook here so we would retain that as an easement and the applicant =
has
agreed to that. But this is t=
he
easement area here. This area=
here
would be deeded as open space and would be the start of the trail. It’s very wild in here, it&#=
8217;s
pretty, (inaudible), we talked about some selective cleaning. and making it a real trail and this area right here wh=
ich is
off of CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 15, 2004 PAGE 9 &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Graziano, which is really quite pretty, there are some beautiful areas, they have a nice trail that goes to &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; And
then the other one right there, the one that shows the whole piece. And the applicant is here to answe=
r any
questions that you have. This=
all
evolved when we went to the hearing and the comments from the public. This one here is the &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
you look on this map, (inaudible) this is the quad map. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: No parking, no access? CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 15, 2004 PAGE 10 &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: No, initially we thought we’=
d have
a temporary access off of &=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Polletta: Are you saying =
that
it doesn’t make sense now because he purchases the other property, so=
it
would be better not to develop it at all at this time? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Barton: No, what he’=
;s
going to do is it makes more sense to, he’s going to develop the next=
two
phases, and they’ve agreed to look at those and they’ve actually
created this master plan so when the land gets developed we will retain
additional (inaudible) along this greenway trail. I think it makes sense to kind of =
look
at this piece in isolation and that is probably what was bothering me the m=
ost,
(inaudible) why do this trail (inaudible). &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: Who (inaudible) now, the conservat=
ion
easement that shows over here? Who will
it be used by? &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: The residents =
of this
subdivision and then this review in C right now is proposed to the L=
and
Trust. This is the (inaudible)
cause this may change when &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: You’re going too fast. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: I know, let me slow down. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: My question is=
,
if that easement is used by the people that own the 3 or 4 lots there, they=
're
the only people that can use it? &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: Correct. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: So my question is, if they're goin=
g to
have horses, the horses can go in there? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms. Barton: Yes. And if you look at the conservation
document, it outlines all of the items that we talked about that would be
enforced by the conservation restriction. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: So these horses that a . . . . . .=
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 15, 2004 PAGE 11 &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: Are for riding only, riding only,
that’s what the document says. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: How do you enforce these restricti=
ons? &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: Well unfortunately it’s goin=
g to
be an enforcement issue for the Town.
(Inaudible) and some of the people who buy the lots may not even put
barns up. They may buy it for=
the
big acreage. I think what the=
y want
is to be able to reserve the right for people to ride horses in the
conservation easement area. A=
nd
hopefully if you have horses you’ll use some good sense. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: The other thing is,
this is Phase I. &=
nbsp; =
; Ms.
Barton: Correct. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Phase I=
to do
Phase II, Phase II to maybe III and IV, and so we’re going to approve
things as we go by phase. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms. Barton: Yes, correct. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: We don’t=
have
a direct plan right now that we’re going to go . . . &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: We have a master plan right now, a
conceptual plan of the trail. It
would come back here for each individual if there is a regulated activity or
for review of the trail as a recommendation to the Commission cause
they’re going to come back and do additional phases of it. &=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Duplissie: So we have his=
word
that he’s going to continue to donate this property? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms. Barton: As he goes along, yes, and that wi=
ll be
part of the approval and he understood that and they’re agreeable to
that. It actually increases t=
he
value to this property right here, having this trail, very walkable. If you go and look at it, there ar=
e some
really beautiful sites up there so it really is gorgeous and it’s jus=
t a
start and I think that’s something that you would have to look at each
time, and he’s agreed to do that, cause it
interconnects with open space and that’s a big goal of the conservati=
on
goal. I know you don’t =
do a
lot of conservation, you’re bogged down in
regulatory, but the Plan of Development that we have now calls for including
greenways, pathways throughout the community. Right now I’m trying to get a
(inaudible) to study the existing sidewalks and the details that the Counci=
l of
Government is going to have in the Fall we got a
grant, and develop the whole sidewalk greenway plan, in conjunction with the
Plan of Development and put it (inaudible) as a class project. If I can get someone to do it, I
haven’t had any time (inaudible).&nb=
sp;
The Town’s property is over here on Butternut, there's some op=
en
space, but there is some additional property that may be developed in the
future that the Town can possibly obtain from them to access this. Even if you only end up with this =
thing
here, it’s a very pretty walk (inaudible). CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 15, 2004 PAGE 12 &=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Polletta: How many acres =
do we
have in the conservation easement? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms. Barton: 12 acres and the open space area i=
s 1.8. &=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Polletta: If the horses, =
will
there be enough food in there for the horses? &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: The intention of the conservation
document is that the hope that (inaudible) and it spells out exactly what t=
hey
would do. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: My point is they go up there and e=
at all
the (inaudible) and would that be a danger for the vegetation? &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: Well we already discussed thereR=
17;s
quite a bit of vegetation there that would help infiltration, and I guess t=
hat
came up at the Planning and Zoning Meeting. Mr. (Inaudible) was (inaudible) 30 =
or 40
cattle there at one time. I
don’t think it would have a detrimental impact, I think the (inaudibl=
e)
for Steele Brook, cause the conservation document doesn’t give the ri=
ght
for them to come off, (inaudible) Christy Pond but actually reserves the ri=
ght
for the Town to go in and do the flood control project because there were
numerous studies on Steel Brook, there was a flood control project and a dam
was actually proposed for this area, so who knows, we may go back and do
something in the future. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Well you know where my question is=
? &=
nbsp; =
; Ms.
Barton: I know what
you’re saying. &=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Polletta: My questions
is, if it is not enough for the horses, and it all depends on how ma=
ny
horses, will it impact the wetlands? &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: I don’t think so cause (inau=
dible)
2 to 3 horses per property and then if you look at the impact of the cows
versus the horses, the horses have less impact (inaudible). &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: It was my understanding that they'=
re not
going to graze there. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: Correct (inaudible). &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: They’re (inaudible). &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Okay, but you just told me that th=
ey
are. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: No, they’re going to riding
(inaudible). CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 15, 2004 PAGE 13 &=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: Not pasture? &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: Not pasture. (Inaudible) but they are not going=
to pastured, it’s riding. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: It doesn’t say that anyplace=
. &=
nbsp; =
; Ms.
Barton: It should have be=
en un there. If
it’s not, we’ll add it, but it should have been in there. I thought I covered everything but=
if
not, it’s just riding, only I think it's a
restriction. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: It seems like it ought to specific=
ally
say that horses are not to be grazed (inaudible). &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: If it’s not in there, weR=
17;ll
put it in. Look at #4 in the
document. What I did is I too=
k that
information, our standard document and (inaudible) compilation of everything
and reviewed it. It think &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: That was my concern. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Page 4 of 4. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: (Inaudible). &=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: Yea, not grazin=
g. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: Yea, not grazing or pasturing. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: So we can add that? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms. Barton: Yes. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: And the riding stalls are outside =
or
that area? &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: (Inaudible) is on the site develop=
ment
plan (inaudible). This is our
standard conservation restriction document that people fill the blanks in.<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> On Page 2 (ina=
udible). A lot of this came up as a result =
of
staff review and discussion and trying to answer the comments/concerns of n=
eighborhood
people.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: I see according to this they can n=
ow mow
3 times, but I thought we had talked before about just an annual mowing?
&=
nbsp; =
; Ms.
Barton: (Inaudible) that =
was
something the engineer and I talked about and it was put in (inaudible).
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 14
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: You get a better quality.
&=
nbsp; =
; Ms.
Barton: I think that̵=
7;s
(inaudible).
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Undercuffler: Then why
couldn’t they mow it every week?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Well (inaudible) that often. Chuck would know better than I wou=
ld but
you start to get all the weeds growing in and you have a whole year for the=
m to
take hold.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: I think the ide=
a is
to prevent overgrowing.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Yea, we don’t want to make i=
t look
like a lawn, but to keep the weeds and vegetation from coming in.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: They mowed it 2 weeks =
ago
and it was collecting hay, and it looks pretty, it’s maintained nicely
and they’ll probably cut it again once, if not twice again this
year. I think it looks better=
.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms
Barton: I think the intent is to keep as m=
uch of
the appearance as it is right now, as much as they can, and still allow the=
m to
develop it.
&= nbsp; = ; Mr. Zawadzki: One thing I wan= ted to comment on is that everybody should note that this elimination for the stone dust path does cut down the disturbance of wetlands as Item #5 on the regul= ated activities was disturbance of 1,550 sq. feet of wetlands and 2,400 sq. feet= of wetland buffer so that will be eliminated so in fact we’ve reduced, if this proposal carries, well actually the impact on regulated activities is reduced by this.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: And I think there was something, t=
hey
were looking to taking everyone’s comments, Plann=
ing
and Zoning, Wetlands, and then the staff reviews comments and that was to t=
heir
benefit.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: Mr. Chairman, I wa=
nt to
leave that here because it is proposed they also require some activities wi=
thin
the 50 foot buffer area, that will cover that.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: But in any case it’s less?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Yes. It is better to leave it the way i=
t is.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Ms. Barton: Right now it’s very minimal activity that would occur in the construction of this trail. (Inaudible). It’s really quite nice.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 15
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Duplissie: So the stone d=
ust
trail is staying?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: No.
It’s gone.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: The area is still there?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms. Barton: The area, I think actually there are two areas (inaudible) kind of a swap and
they’ve modified it to make it less.=
That one was much more activity.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: But to create a stone dust trail i=
t had
to be worked on in grading and that’s where the impact was?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms. Barton: Correct.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: And the right of way which was 50 =
feet
will remain?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms. Barton: Yes.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: But it’s just a right of way=
.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: (Inaudible).
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Right, unimproved.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: Probably would have been an easeme=
nt for
potential future utilities because the water (inaudible) for crossing St=
eele
Brook. (I=
naudible). We try and retain whatever we can =
for
the future.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Any other comments?
&=
nbsp; =
; Ms.
Barton: There is a revise=
d set
of plans that we can use. Jus=
t one
other thing, when you’re thinking about trails, if you have an
opportunity to go and look at what Mr. Tedesco did at Lynnfield Acres,
it’s really quite beautiful.
I mean the Land Trust hasn’t officially accepted it for public=
ation,
but there is a sign up and I’m going to nominate to Mr. Tedesco for M=
ost
Green Silk Awards, it’s very pretty.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Undercuffler: I have a qu= estion for Chuck. You had written a = letter July 1st. There were some poi= nts on there that you had raised. Wh= ere does all that stand? Has that= been resolved?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 16
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: Many of those go =
away
with the elimination of the stone dust trail from
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Well you’re happy with the
situation as it is right now, those changes?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Yes.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: Any other comme=
nts,
suggestions, criticisms? Can =
we
vote tonight?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: Yes, you can.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: Or we can wait =
until
next month, but unless someone has justification for doing that, we can tak=
e a
Motion for Approval or Disapproval.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; MOTION: (Mr. Polletta, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Approve Application #495 of Patrick Grazia= no, proposed 4-lot Willowbrook Farms Subdivision Northfield Road, Watertown in = an R-30 Residential Zoning District, subject to standard conditions, and that Item = #4, the map shown, that has the right in the conservation restriction area for horseback riding only.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Discussion: =
; Mr.
Rafey: That’s Item =
#4 of
the Grant of Conservation.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: These are the final plans on the r=
ecord.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Revision July 9, 2004.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Barton: Willowbrook Farms Subdivision, Feb=
ruary
24, 2004, Latest Revision Date July 9, 2004.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 17
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: As part of the Motion, the conditi=
ons
would include:
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; &= nbsp; &nbs= p; 1. = The creation of 77,398 sq. ft. of open space area to be deeded to the Watertown Land Trust as shown on Sheet #2 of Subdivision map for Willowbrook Farms Subdivision dated July 9, 2004. This open space area is part of a planned greenway along Steele Broo= k.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; 2. =
The
creation of a 25 foot wide floating public access easement on
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; 3. =
Construction
of a pathway along Steel Brook on the Watertown Land Trust parcel located on
the south side of Willowbrook Farms Subdivision.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: That’s part =
of the
Motion.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: I’ll second it.
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: Just for the record, these are the
conditions, plus the standard conditions are put on the application.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Right, which Joe already mentioned=
in
his Motion.
&nbs=
p; Ms.
Barton: You should be aware that the Land =
Trust
has expressed interest, but it has not been finalized. That will go along to the Planning=
and
Zoning Commission and they'll make the final determination about who the op=
en
space goes to, but I think the Land Trust has definitely expressed an inter=
est,
it makes the most sense.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Ciriello asked to speak, but Mr. Zawadzki told him he could not speak. Mr. Ciriello just wanted to thank =
the
Commission.
B. Application
#501 of Reid and Leslie Black,
If a Public Hearing is=
not
held, then a decision us required by August 13, 2004.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 18
Mr. Zawadzki: =
Is the applicant here?=
Do you have any comments? Well we did the site walk on this =
last
Saturday and I think everyone was satisfied that there really is #1, I gues=
s we
need to officially make a motion that this is not a Significant Activity.
MOTION:<=
span
style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'> (Mr.
Polletta, sec. Mr. Beauchamp) that Application #501 of Reid and Leslie Blac=
k,
73 Black Rock Rock, Watertown, CT for construction of a shed within regulat=
ed
area at 73 Black Rock Road, Watertown, CT is Not a Significant Activity.
Discussi= on: None<= o:p>
MOTION P=
ASSED
UNANIMOUSLY
Mr. Zawadzki: I think everyone was
satisfied that this would be a minor issue.
Mr. Rafey: As you noticed on th=
e site
walk this area was disturbed during the construction of the house. There is a piece of wetlands
approximately 30 feet from the area where they want to put the shed that was
already disturbed and the entire driveway is within the 50 foot buffer
zone. I don’t see any
significant activity within the regulated area.
Mr. Polletta: After the field trip=
I
think there was very little disturbed and even now, I think it’s
basically, there’s no damage or anything so I don’t see a probl=
em
myself.
Mr. Zawadzki: =
And there is no propos=
ed
grading or excavation.
Mr. Polletta: Right in the area.
Mr. Rafey: The impact is already
there. The base is finished a=
nd
they just have to put the shed on that location.
Mr. Zawadzki: Actually this says
they’re constructing a shed, but in fact the owner said that
they’re just going to drop a pre built shed in that spot off the back=
of
a truck so it’s even less disturbance in that respect.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; MOTION: (Mr. Polletta, sec. Mr. Undercuffler) to Approve Application #501 of Reid and Le= slie Black, 73 Black Rock Road, Watertown, CT for construction of a shed within regulated area at 73 Black Rock Road, Watertown, CT.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Discussion: = ; None
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 19
C. Application
#502 of David Leo, 1011 Middlebury Road, Watertown, CT to fill and grade a
regulated area at 1011 Middlebury Road, Watertown, CT.
If a Public Hearing is=
not
held, then a decision is required by August 13, 2004.
Mr. Zawadzki: =
The first thing we nee=
d to
determine is if this is a Significant Activity or not. Any comments.<=
/span>
Mr. Polletta: After the field trip=
, I
personally believe it is not based on what was disturbed. However are we going to discuss so=
me of
the work that has to be done to remove all the debris, it is in the wetland=
s?
Mr. Zawadzki: Okay, this is the ti=
me to
do it, if we have a feeling as to how that should be done, that would be pa=
rt
of our conditions for approval.
Mr. Polletta: I personally believe=
that,
I mean this is just a motion that you wanted, that it’s not a
significant, well we could discuss the rest of it?
Mr. Zawadzki: Yes.
Mr. Polletta: I felt that after we=
had
that field trip there is a lot of material that was used all over, into the
wetlands, however I feel that a lot of it was removed from the last time, so
whatever remains I think it should be graded 3:1 and anything in the lower =
part
should be removed or graded and then seeded to put it back to the same cond=
ition
it was before. I don’t =
see
any except for asphalt, but I was informed that asphalt is not . . . .
Mr. Zawadzki: Biodegradable.
Mr. Polletta: Right, so once it=
217;s
sloped and graded, then reseed, and that’s what I think should be don=
e,
put it back to the way it was before.
Mr. Zawadzki: Chuck, how do you fe=
el
about the grade? I was thinki=
ng
2:1. Is there any recommended=
slope
in this type of an application?
Mr. Berger: I would refer back t=
o the
2003 Sediment Erosion Control Guidelines.&=
nbsp;
(Inaudible) 3:1 that would probably be best. You can go steep to a 2:1, but then=
there
are guidelines for every, I believe it’s 12 or 3 feet of elevation ri=
se
at a 2:1 slope, you’d have to put a bench in, you don’t want a =
2:1
slope of great height. 3:1 sl=
ope is
okay. 2:1 you have to put a b=
ench
in every 12 to 13 feet of lift.
Mr. Rafey: Did you notice on th=
e site
walk there was a yellow rope that was marked, the area that Mr. Leo has pla=
nned
to fill in in the future.
(Inaudible) that part was already done that you saw, and I believe M=
r.
Leo has plans to fill more area in the back.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 20
Ma=
ny
people talking at once (inaudible).
Mr. Rafey: Can you please explain what you want to do?
Mr. Leo I apologize for not bei=
ng
there, but again, I was on vacation.
When I was marking it off I realized I’m not in the wetlands,
I’m inside the buffer though, and I did give a map of it. And that yellow line is where I=
217;d
like to go back, and I was planning on keeping it the way it is, the levels,
the elevation, everything the way it is.&n=
bsp;
I wasn’t going to fill in over there where I have the yellow
rope. At the top though I wou=
ld
like to fill that back more and then grade it down on slope.
Mr. Polletta: So that’s not =
your
property?
Mr. Leo: No, that is the prop=
erty
line.
Mr. Polletta: The yellow line?
Mr. Leo: Yes.
Mr. Polletta: So beyond the yellow=
line
is land that belongs to your father-in-law?
Mr. Leo: Yes.
Mr. Polletta: You want to fill int=
o the
wetlands?
Mr. Leo: No, I’ll never=
touch
the wetlands as far as I want to go back.
Mr. Rafey: There is a plot plan=
in
the packet. If you look at th=
at it
shows the location of the wetlands and the dotted line is the 50 foot buffer
zone.
Ms. Sturgis: If you fill more to =
the
back like you’re talking about, can you still do it at 3:1 grade, is there room to do that?
Mr. Leo: Yea, again, on the u=
pper
level by my driveway, yea I would be able to do it with that, but the lower
level where I have the actual yellow rope down on the lower level,
I wanted to come out straight with that if I could.
Ms. Sturgis: You’re not goi=
ng to
fill there?
Mr. Leo: Well I would like to=
.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 21
Ms. Sturgis: Then you couldn̵=
7;t do
the 3:1 there?
Mr. Leo: No, not in that area=
. Well it wouldn’t be that hig=
h, it
would only be like a 4.5 foot elevation straight out, so maybe I could. If I go to where I want to fill up=
to,
it’s 85 feet 7 inches and if I start to slope it down there, I'd have
another 9 to 10 feet before I even get to the wetlands, and that’s wh=
at
I’d like to do.
Mr. Undercuffler: Can we get the engin=
eer to
go out there and check this out? It
was all very hazy on Saturday. The
rope was there, but we didn’t really know what the rope was or what y=
our
intent was.
Mr. Zawadzki: We could conceivably=
go
back out and maybe Mr. Leo can be there.&n=
bsp;
We don’t have to make a decision on this tonight.
Mr. Polletta: Behind that rope, yo=
u said
that the rope is the end of your property, so behind the rope somebody fill=
ed
the stuff in, but not wetlands behind the rope?
Mr. Leo: Behind the rope I ne=
ver
touched that, nobody filled that in.
Mr. Polletta: Unless the erosion w=
ent from
the silt into there. When I w=
as
over there there was like erosion on the inside so it looked like it was fi=
lled
in. But i=
s there
wetlands behind the rope?
Mr. Leo: About 11 feet behind=
that
rope roughly is where the wetlands start.
Mr. Rafey: If you look at that =
map, I
think it’s clear. The r=
ope is
on this dark line which is the property line, and there is another line beh=
ind
it, the dotted line, that is the edge of the wetlands, and it’s about=
11
feet from the property line. =
The
wetlands are not located on Mr. Leo’s property, it’s on the oth=
er
property, but some of the area that Mr. Leo is proposing to fill within the=
50
foot buffer zone. This dotted=
line
is the 50 foot buffer line. T=
his area
is the area that Mr. Leo wants to fill, which is within the 50 foot buffer
line, not the wetlands.
Mr. Polletta: I’m saying, wh=
atever
that rope is you go fill beyond the rope, past the rope?
Mr. Leo: You’re saying =
I do,
because I never put any fill behind that rope. Actually I never touched down
there. That’s just clea=
ned
up.
Mr. Polletta: Beyond the rope ther=
e is
some silt and asphalt.
Mr. Leo: You're talking about=
over
there close to the driveway?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 22
Mr. Polletta: Yes, we walked on it=
. So I’m just saying that some=
of
that stuff that is past the road, it seems to me it’s over 10 feet, so
it’s in the wetlands.
Mr. Leo: No, the wetlands
goes way up here.
Mr. Rafey: No, that’s not=
. That areas that
you’re talking about, Mr. Polletta is in this area. When you go on the drive and when =
you
turn toward the grass, in that corner, in this corner, this is the area.
Mr. Polletta: (Inaudible).
Mr. Rafey: No, the road part in=
here
and then it goes like this.
Mr. Polletta: Okay, and then
(inaudible)?
Mr. Rafey: Stuff in this area,
probably within the 50 foot buffer area, but not in the wetlands.
Mr. Polletta: Behind the rope.
Mr. Rafey: Yes, but within the =
50
foot buffer area, not in the wetlands.
Mr. Polletta: My question again is,
behind that rope is not wetlands?
Mr. Leo: It is not wetlands.<= o:p>
Mr. Polletta: Well I personally be=
lieve
we should slope it 3:1. Whate=
ver
you disturbed, you slope it 3:1, grade it, put some seeds in it, put some hay. <=
/span>I
don’t think we should disturb any more than what it is. Whatever is done, just slope it 3:=
1,
gentle slope, cause 2:1 will be too steep, so 3:1 will be more
gentle so you can use it, grass it, dress it up. But we didn’t see no more, th=
ere
was some spool of wire last time, somebody dumped some pieces of (inaudible)
and stuff like that so it’s all nice and clean which we like that, but
there is some stuff in there so I feel he should dress it up.
Mr. Zawadzki: Do you think we ough=
t to
go out and take a look at it again?
Mr. Undercuffler: I don’t knew
Mr. Zawadzki: Glen, you didn’=
;t get
to see it?
Mr. Duplissie: I did not.
Unidentified Voice: Neither did I.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 23
Mr. Duplissie: I would definitely g=
o see
it.
Unidentified Voice: So would I.
Mr. Rafey: You have time, the n=
ext
meeting is August 12th and you have until August 13th=
to
make a decision on this application.
If the Commission wants to go back . . . .
Mr. Jones: I’d be willing=
to go
back.
Mr. Zawadzki: I think it would be =
a good
idea. I’ve been out the=
re
twice myself and . . . . .
Mr. Polletta: Well we don’t =
know, cause we go there and nobody is there.
Ma=
ny
people talking at once (inaudible).
Mr. Rafey: I think it’s g=
ood to
go again and you can explain to the Commission exactly what you want to do
there. Do you want to go the
Saturday before the next meeting at 9:30 a.m.?
Mr. Zawadzki: Yes.
MOTION:<=
span
style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'> (Mr.
Polletta, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Table and Schedule a Site Walk for Applica=
tion
#502 of David Leo,
Discussi= on: None<= o:p>
MOTION P=
ASSED
UNANIMOUSLY
6. &nb=
sp; New
Applications
A.&n=
bsp; =
;
Application #503 of William Traver,
If a Public Hearing is=
not
held, then a decision is required by September 17, 2004.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; William Traver,
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Traver: I am replacing a = pool that I had since 1988.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 24
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Traver submitted=
an
application for a zoning permit for a swimming pool. I went to the property to make sur=
e that
it meets the zoning setback requirements; I noticed that behind the property
there is a brook and the pool is about 10 to 15 feet from the edge of the
brook. The entire area that h=
e put
the pool is already disturbed. From
the edge of the brook there is a retaining wall which is 12, 15 feet high a=
nd
the back of that wall has been disturbed during the house construction. The swimming pool is on top of that
area. They have an existing
swimming pool, they replaced it because . . . . . .
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Traver: The wall was buil=
t in
1924. The pool was there since
1988.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: (Inaudible) they just removed an o=
ld
pool and put a new one, but it is within the 50 foot buffer zone of the bro=
ok,
so I asked him to come to this Commission to get a permit for that.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well I guess we could go take a lo=
ok at
that too.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: The same day.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Was there a building permit taken =
out on
the original pool?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Yes.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION: (Mr.
Beauchamp, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Table and Schedule a Field Trip for
Application #503 of William Traver,
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; (Tape #2, Side A ended – may have missed some.)<= o:p>
7. &n=
bsp; Old
Business
A.&n= bsp; = ; None
8. =
New
Business
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: Basically we ne= ed a Motion here to release $8,800 of bond and to retain $5,676 for the 1 year period f= rom completion.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 25
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: As I mentioned in = my memo Mr. Berger and I conducted a site walk there and we inspected everythi= ng and the plans, everything is done according to the plans and we have no objection to the release of this amount of the bond and we recommend keeping 10% maintenance on it until one year. You just need a motion to approve this.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: So Chuck, you’re happy with =
what
you saw, everything is okay?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I am, yes.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mark Tedesco, Applicant
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Tedesco: Can I address this bond issue?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Sure.
&nbs= p; &= nbsp; Mr. Tedesco: I have a question. Is this the proper time to do it?<= o:p>
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Nr,. Zawadzki: Y=
es.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Tedesco: This was a very,= very difficult site, anyone who knows the Hollow Road project, probably one of t= he toughest sites I've ever worked on, and it’s come to an end and every= body seems to be very happy with it. I have one question on this, 10% of my money not being returned to me. Now in certain situations I fully understand where a 10% maintenance is withheld, = and I’d like for our Town Engineer, Mr. Berger, or anyone else on this Bo= ard to tell me on this particular project why $5,000 of my money is being held? Now keep in mind that t= his 2 lot subdivision has gone through a full Winter since November, 3 major, well semi-major rain events, and I think Moosa and Chuck will probably tell you,= to their satisfaction from Day One we’ve had no problems up there, so if someone could just tell me why you guys get to keep another $5,000, I would appreciate it?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Is the 10% that we retain for the =
total
construction?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Tedesco: The total bond a=
mount.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: I don’t know what the total
numbers are.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: (Inaudible) $56,000 something.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: So this $5,000 is 10% of the $56,0=
00?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: Yes.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 26
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Tedesco: What I really don’t want to =
hear
is that this is status quo for the Town.&n=
bsp;
I would like specific answers why this needs to be held. I’ve done everything 100%
here. Now there are box culve=
rts
involved, I can understand maybe there’s a question, Chuck, of
undermining of box culverts. =
But
again, this has gone through 3 significant rain storms, a full Winter and 2 of my engineers have certified that every=
thing
is on the up and up and Chuck has been out there numerous times.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well since I've only been Chairman=
for a
few months, I don’t know the answer to that but I think it̵=
7;s
something that’s in the regulations.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: I think Mr. Berger=
can
probably answer that.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Berger: I mean besides th= e answer that that’s what we typically withhold, a 10% one year maintenance bo= nd, I think the reason in this case is that there are relatively significant structures in the public right of way, driveway, culvert crossings are with= in the public right of way, and yes, they had held up well, the site looks very stable at this point, but there are some structures within our right of way= and we want to make sure they hold up for a one year period, and that’s o= ur guarantee, if you will, that they will do that.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Jones: Mr. Berger, is this still within t=
hat
one year then, at this point?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: This would start the one year maint=
enance
period.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Jones: Starts?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Yes.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Peluso: Is this a wetl=
ands,
this was a regulation that the wetlands put into (inaudible)?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: For the wetlands performance bond.=
When the Wetlands Commission approv=
ed
this subdivision, it’s not a subdivision, it’s a single family
home, when the Commission approved that development, th=
ey
wanted a $56,000 bond.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Tedesco: I mean I went above and beyond what=
needs
to be done there, and again there are certain situations where you have to =
keep
the 10% for a year, and I just don’t feel that this is one of them.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: Yea, but if Ch= uck says that that is what we have to do, then we have to do it. We can’t change the rules to= day.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 27
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Tedesco: Well first of all I don’t kn=
ow if
there is a rule, so I’m asking specifically here what can go wrong on
that site, I’d like to know?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: You could have a huge thunderstorm
tomorrow and you could wash out some of the things that you’ve done, I
mean it’s easy enough to do.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Tedesco: Have you been up
there?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Duplissie: I’m just
deferring to Chuck here and what he just said to us, and he said we donR=
17;t
know what’s going to happen tomorrow and if it’s a typical one =
year
thing I don’t know, Chuck will probably be able to tell us better if =
it
is a one year. If it’s =
a one
year thing and it’s in the books, then that’s what we’ll =
do.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I don’t think it’s
unreasonable given the scope and improvement within the public area to with=
hold
a one year maintenance bond on that.
It’s held up well, and at this point in time I have no reason =
to
believe it won’t, otherwise we wouldn’t be releasing money, but=
I
recommend that we do withhold it for the year.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Is this something that we do for e=
very
builder? I mean when you have=
some
money, you do it with everybody, or it just depends on the site?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Berger: Every bond reduct=
ion
that I’ve been involved with we’ve always withheld 10% one year maintenance.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: This is our po=
licy,
this is how we do all the bonds.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Tedesco: That’s my beef, is do it whe=
re
it’s needed. In this
situation maybe it is needed, but it just shouldn’t be cart blanch, we
keep 10% of a man’s money for one year for no reason.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: We are not disagreeing with Mr.
Tedesco. He did an excellent =
job on
that site. I mean it’s =
as
good as example that we can show to other people of how to do this, they di=
d a
good job. That is the policy,=
in
case something goes wrong with the structures in the right of way, then the=
re
is some money if Mr. Tedesco is not here and he leaves Town, then the Town =
has
some money to go and fix it.
I’m sure he will stay here.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Tedesco: I made my point, thank you.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: We need a Motion to release $8,800 =
of the
bond and retain $5,676 for a one year period for maintenance from the date =
of
completion.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 28
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; MOTION: (Mr. Polletta, sec. Mr. Thermer) that we release $8,800 of the bond and retain t= he $5,676 for the year.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Discussion: Mr. Undercuffler: If the $5,600 is 10%, what is the =
$8,000
then?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: We have 1 or 2 previous,
I think we had two previous bond reductions.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: We had one.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: We withheld some money,
I recommended withholding some money based on some changes to the as built
drawings, final seeding and grading, and paving the driveway.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: So this is the tail end of the
(inaudible)?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: This is the tail end.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Tedesco: 10% of the $50,0=
00
something thousand dollars I did in improvements.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
9. =
Communications
and Bills
A. =
Wetland Commission Jurisdiction: Avalonbay Communities v. Written I=
nland
Wetlands, A PowerPoint Presentation by
B. =
The
2004 Inland Wetland Statute: A
legislative Journey, Home Builders Association of Connecticut, Inc.
C. 2004
Municipal Inland Wetland Commissioners Training Program:
D. General
Statutes of
F. =
Public
Act No. 04-209: An Act Concer=
ning
Jurisdiction of Municipal Inland Wetlands Commissions.
G. Public
Act No. 03-276: An Act Concer=
ning Minor
Revisions to the Environmental Protection Provisions.
H. Factors
for Consideration of Commissioner with Definitional Elements (italicized and
parenthesized) added from new section (c) solely for purposes of discussion=
of
factor analysis for activities within Wetlands and Watercourses.
I. &=
nbsp; Examples.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 29
J. &=
nbsp; How
to Access Avolonbay Communities, Inc. v Inland Wetlands Commission of the T=
own
of
K. Web
Sites Related to Lakes Management.
L. =
Technical
Glossary Related to Lakes Management.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Basically this is all stuff in the
packet to read at our leisure.
&=
nbsp; Mr. Rafey: I recommend to the new members to =
read
these materials. I put in Mr.=
Jones
packet cause he went to that D.E.P. Training
Program. I gave copies of tha=
t to
everyone. It’s good
information for the new members.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: There is some information in here =
about
that Avalonbay Case in
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: I went to that seminar. There were a few attorneys from bo=
th sides
arguing about this case. The =
whole
thing is that if the impact is, if somebody comes here and proposes some
activity outside of the regulated area, but if that activity has some impac=
t on
the physical characteristics of the wetlands, you can regulate that, but if=
it
doesn’t change the wetlands, you cannot stop the developer just becau=
se
the impact on the animals or other wildlife. Just make sure that the proposed
activities have direct impact on the wetlands, not on the plants or animals,
and if so, you can regulate it.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: As in this 4 lot subdivision for
Graziano.
&=
nbsp; Mr. Rafey: Yes.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: Is that the work on the 4 lots is
actually going to affect the wetlands.
&=
nbsp; Mr. Rafey: That's why they were in front of y=
ou and
you approved it.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: But if there had been a barrier an=
d the
wetlands were on the property and it wasn’t going to affect it, then =
we
have no jurisdiction.
&=
nbsp; Mr. Rafey: They don’t have to come here=
.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: Right.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: So basically this is to read at our
convenience, so I need a Motion to accept item 9A through 9L.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 30
MOTION:<=
span
style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'> (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Polletta) to accept Communications and Bills, Agenda It=
ems
9A through 9L as presented.
Discussi= on: None<= o:p>
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOU=
SLY
10. Repor=
ts
from Officers and Committees
None
11. Repor=
ts
from Staff
Mr. Rafey: At the last meeting i=
f you
remember you approved Application #500, that was=
Mr.
Neibel on
Mr. Undercuffler: I don’t think
you’re going to hear anything from him.
Ms. Sturgis: No.
Mr. Undercuffler: They're going to ign=
ore
it.
Unidentified Person in Audience: C=
an I
speak on that?
Mr. Zawadzki: Not at this point.
Ms. Sturgis: Why can’t we e=
nforce
it? Is it not wetlands?
Mr. Rafey: The pond is not loca=
ted on
his property. The pond is on =
Mr.
Neibel’s property and Mr. Neibel believes that there is an area from =
the
outlet of the pipe that Mr. Coty put on his property, from that point to the
pond it is not stabilized and that contributed to the siltation of the pond=
.
Mr. Sturgis: But the pond isnR=
17;t
considered wetlands?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 31
Mr. Rafey: No, the pond is, but=
the
pond is not on his property.
It’s not his pond.
Mr. Duplissie: Mr. Coty installed t=
he
pipe.
Mr. Rafey: He came to the Commi=
ssion
once and the Commission told him not to remove the pipe, leave it the way it
is, if you remember.
Mr. Duplissie: But can’t we a=
sk for
some rip rap to be placed downstream of the pipe?
Mr. Rafey: I talked to Mr. Coty=
and
he said that he is not willing to pay the bill for that. If the neighbor wants to do that,
he’ll give them permission to come on his property to do it.
Mr. Duplissie: How long an area is =
that
erosion from the downstream of the pipe?
Mr. Rafey: Probably 25, 30 feet=
.
Mr. Polletta: I felt because he
disturbed the area on his property, and he created this problem, and if he =
did
not put the (inaudible), if he dud not move the dirt maybe, probably maybe =
he
wouldn’t have the problem, but if he doesn't have the money to pay, t=
hen
I guess we can’t do anything, but when you disturb something and it
causes problems downstream, in a way you’re responsible. If you moved it without a permit, =
if he
put that pipe in there, he disturbed the area without coming to see you, I =
mean
we could take it any way we want it, but if I disturb, in my property and
siltation goes into your property, I’m causing the problem so now if I
don’t have the money to fix it, and in reality I don’t know how=
can
. . . .
Mr. Duplissie: We addressed that. <=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> What they said was that they came i=
n and
they gave them the blessing to say well don’t take the pipe out now, =
once
he did come in front of the Commission.
Mr. Rafey: The problem is in ex=
isting
situation. It’s not lik=
e he's
doing something now and I can go there and stop him from doing it. He put the pipe in and the pipe is
there. I told him that was il=
legal,
and I asked him to come to the Commission.=
He came to the Commission in the past and the Commission at that time
told him that by removing the pipe (inaudible).
Mr. Polletta: He removed all the s=
tones.
Mr. Rafey: Yes, it’s bett=
er to
just leave it the way it is. =
That
was the Commission's decision. At
this point I don’t know what to do, itR=
17;s
like an existing situation. T=
he
pipe is there and the pond is there.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 32
Mr. Polletta: So this new owner he=
never
moved the stones. You know ho=
w they
got like a culvert with stones on both sides, on the bottom, if he comes do=
wn
where the pipe is there is just dirt so when it rains a lot you get so much
water that the erosion comes right into the pond, so my point is that this
owner, he never moved those rocks, probably it was done before?
Mr. Rafey: I don’t know.<= o:p>
Mr.,. Pollett=
a: That’s why I say, it’s=
an
existing situation which is hard to blame on anyone.
Mr. Rafey: If it was a project =
under
construction we could go there and monitor it and tell them what to do. This is an existing situation, the=
pipe
is there, and I don’t know what I can do. I spoke to Mrs. Barton and she said
there was nothing we can enforce.
Then I wrote him a letter to ask him what he can do to improve the
situation. That’s it.
Mr. Polletta: Well I think you did=
your
job.
Mr. Zawadzki: He did say that if t=
he
neighbors wanted to come in and do something to his property, he would let =
them, he just didn’t want to pay for it.
Mr. Polletta: He probably can't af=
ford
it.
Mr. Berger: Continuing our weekly
inspections out there. Moosa and myself, most of the time, at least one of us all th=
e time,
with their engineer and the developers. For those of you who have driven p=
ast
it, I think they have made some significant progress over the past couple of
months getting the dirt piles out of there, getting the grass growing, and I
think it’s much more stabilized than they were when they first started
there.
As an update, last wee=
k we
met with the developer’s representative from
Mr. Duplissie: When you drive in on=
the
left hand side, up behind the tree line, it looks like there is a new pile =
of
loom up on the left hand side, and I didn’t see the silt fence. Is it there?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 33
Mr. Berger: It is now. It was not on Thursday or Friday. =
I think it was on Thursday I drove =
by
after our meeting and they were doing some regrading cause there was another
unit that goes in that corner of the property and I brought that to their
attention that afternoon and when I looked today it is back in there. There is a wetland between that ar=
ea and
the road that is important.
Mr. Duplissie: How many units total=
? I wasn’t here when the proje=
ct started.
Mr. Rafey: 40.
Mr. Berger: Somewhere in the low
40’s, 41, 42, 43. some=
where
around there.
Mr. Duplissie: And Phase II is how =
many
units?
Mr. Berger: The total is 43. The majority of them were in Phase
I. I don’t have the map=
here
with me. So there are 40 unit=
s and
¾ of them are in Phase I and ¼ of them in Phase II.
Mr. Duplissie: So there are 2 –=
3
units per building?
Mr. Rafey: Only 2.
Mr. Duplissie: Thank you.
Mr. Rafey: That a= rea that you mentioned that there was no silt fence, and the reason was because before there was a huge pile of stumps that they don’t wash out, it w= as there, after they removed the stumps from there then I think Mr. Berger, si= te walk that they had they mentioned to put a silt fence there, and now there = is a silt fence. (Tape #2, Side B = ended – may have missed some).
Mr. Berger: It= 217;s an on-going, it’s a weekly process.
Mr. Rafey: The go= od thing is that the pond is now in place and if there is any erosion from that site it washes into that pond.
Mr. Duplissie: Th= ey seem to work well with you, it’s not like, I mean there were some problems with some siltation and since you’ve talked to them in the l= ast couple of months it seems like they’re doing whatever you want as far= as taking care of and addressing the situation.
Mr. Berger: And we’ve also begun discussions with them, and I know it’s only the middle of July, but for this coming Winter how much of that site do we want= to see appropriately seeded this coming Fall so it’s nice and stable for= the coming Winter so we hope that as you drive by the road this Fall you’= ll see nothing but green and the units going in.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 34
12. &n=
bsp; Public
Participation
Mr. Neibel: I was here last mont=
h and
I obtained the letter that was sent to Mr. Coty and it seems to me that what
was in the letter was not what you discussed and agreed upon last month.
Mr. Zawadzki: Well I can’t speak for what’s happened in the past, a
couple of years ago, but I don’t think he actually said that he didn't
have the funds. He just said =
that
he didn't want to pay for any improvements, and my understanding through Mo=
osa,
that he would give you permission to make improvements on his property, but=
at
your expense, and that’s only my (inaudible).
Mr. Neibel: Well the plunge pool=
was
at our expense.
Mr. Zawadzki: Yes, but that’=
s on
your property.
Mr. Neibel: But that's like a ba=
nd aid
that’s on our property, but it’s like putting a band aid down h=
ere
when you’re bleeding up here because the mud comes in, I mean, and he=
in
fact has changed the watercourse which I thought was a mortal sin in this T=
own
and you have the pictures. Th=
ey
were well documented. Actuall=
y if
it were up to me I’d let the thing fill in and you’re losing
something that’s not only very attractive but very functional, so I
don’t know what the Town’s position is, and what’s your
function then?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 35
Mr. Zawadzki: Well our function is=
to
regulate, but people have to comply with the regulations and come for permi=
ts
and he didn’t do that, and we don’t have the authority to throw=
him
in jail or anything like that, so that’s a problem.
Mr. Neibel: So what you’re
saying is then you don’t have any enforcement?
Mr. Zawadzki: No, in the sense tha=
t we
can have him fined or something.
Mr. Neibel: No, I don’t wa=
nt him
arrested. If I wanted to have=
him
arrested, I would have had him arrested when he knocked trees down on my
property and rode his ATV’s in the wetlands and on my property.
Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, well that’=
s trespassing.
Mr. Neibel: Yea, I mean if I wan=
ted
him in jail that’s what I would have done, but I didn’t.
Mr. Undercuffler: Is the attorney goin=
g to
talk to (inaudible)?
Mr. Neibel: Well from what I
understand the attorney is his relative.
Mr. Undercuffler: No, the Town
Attorney. The Town Attorney i=
s his
relative?
Mr. Neibel: The attorney for the=
Wetlands
Commission, I think, whoever he is.
Mr. Rafey: I did talk to Mrs. B=
arton
and I asked her the question, is there anything we can do and I think she d=
id
talk to the Attorney, I don’t know if she talked to Atty. Jessell or
Atty. McHugh, and Mrs. Barton told me that there is nothing we can enforce =
on
him. Whatever the Commission =
tells
me to do I do.&=
nbsp;
You told me to draft a letter, I did, and I sent it to him.
Mr. Neibel: But the letter seems=
to be
not what you guys were saying last month.&=
nbsp;
I mean everybody was sympathetic about the pond, I mean you were out
there and you saw what it looks like.
Mr. Rafey: I did send the letter
including the letter that I received from Mr. Neibel’s engineer and I
made some recommendations and I made a copy of that attached to my letter a=
nd
submit to him to see if there is anything on that list that he can do.
Mr. Neibel: I mean the way your =
letter
was written, does he have any ideas what to do? I mean you actually suggested at t=
he
last meeting that he get professional help to see what he could do. I mean I don’t think it’=
;s up
to him to describe what he can do out there because he screwed it up alread=
y.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 36
Mr. Polletta: The question asked be=
fore
was, now you live there, when we took a field trip, we went over there, I s=
ee a
little rock wall on both sides on the ground. You’re saying that he moved =
those
rocks?
Mr. Neibel: Which rocks are you
talking about?
Mr. Polletta: It’s like a li=
ttle
cover like the old farm (inaudible).
Mr. Neibel: No, what happened wa=
s . .
. .
Mr. Polletta: It looks like you=
217;re
saying to me that he created this problem.
Mr. Neibel: He did.
Mr. Polletta: And that’s wha=
t I
was asking before and they told me it was an existing situation, that's what
you said to me.
Mr. Rafey: Right now there̵=
7;s a
pipe there . . . . .
Mr. Polletta: No I understand that=
, but
the question I was asking, did he cause this problem? Yes or No? Like I said if I’m upstream a=
nd I
create a problem to dump siltation in your property that means I’m
responsible for it, so that’s what I’m asking him. He created this, he did this, it&#=
8217;s
not like it was there when he bought the house.
Mr. Neibel: He created the
problem. The rocks that are t=
here
when we had the pond cleaned from somebody that Mary had suggested, they wa=
nted
to put in those trap rocks.
That’s on our property.
But what he did was he put in a pipe upstream and diverted the stream
coming into the pond.
Mr. Polletta: Before the pipe that
entered the pipe there is no rocks, there is nothing, so it looks like
that’s why you’re getting siltation. So the question again, did he move=
any
rocks and create this siltation going into the pond? Did he create this problem?
Mr. Neibel: Yes.
Mr. Duplissie: Okay, so it’s
obvious. I mean he put in a p=
ipe
that is . . . . .
Mr. Polletta: I wasn’t there, I’m only asking a question.
Mr. Duplissie: But the enforcement
though, the problem with this is that, like the development over on Icehouse
Road, when they create a problem, Chuck is over there and the hammer that he
has is that he told the Building Department no more permits until they rect=
ify
the situation. Right now we
don’t have a hammer to drop on them.=
I don’t know, I mean Moosa . . . . .
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 37
Mr. Rafey: I’m asking the
Commission, what do you want me to do?&nbs=
p;
What can I do?
Mr. Neibel: Well if it continues=
like
this it’s going to destroy the pond.=
Now in the original letter I wrote about the shed, I explained before
the pond went in it was just a swamp, and when we had heavy rains like we d=
id
not this year, say the year before, the water would fill up into the eyes of
the people that live there. It
wasn’t Mr. Coty. And wh=
en we
put the pond in, I mean we took out thousands of gallons of water our of hi=
s,
so in one respect we protected his property, well that was before he lived
there but . . . . .
Mr. Rafey: When he built the sh=
ed I
brought my measuring tape from the office, went to his property, I measured
from the edge of the shed to the watercourse and it’s more than 50 fe=
et,
so there’s nothing I can do.
It’s outside of the regulated area that I have no jurisdiction=
.
Mr. Neibel: But (inaudible).
Mr. Rafey: Just one second please. =
The shed
was close to the property line, and I told him (inaudible) this is too clos=
e,
you need a variance. I sent h=
im to
the Zoning Board of Appeals to get a variance because I couldn’t issu=
e a
zoning permit, and the things that I can do under the power that I have I do
it, other than that I don’t know what to do. I mean if this Commission can tell=
me
what to do, I’ll do it tomorrow.
Mr. Polletta: I think you’re=
on
the right track by checking with the attorneys and whatever you could do.
Mr. Rafey: I can ask the Town
Attorney again.
Mr. Polletta: But again my concern=
is
that he created this thing because he put this pipe there, he moved some of=
the
rocks. If he did this maybe t=
he
Town Attorney can lead you to a different direction.
Mr. Rafey: I think the source o=
f the
sediment is not only that small area.
There’s a larger watershed that drains into that pond.
Mr. Neibel: (Inaudible) ATV’=
s.
Mr. Rafey: And you get natural
erosion anyway if you have a storm you see colored water everywhere.
Mr. Duplissie: He’s mentionin=
g the
ATV’s all the time.
Mr. Neibel: No, he sold them bec=
ause
we got on him.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 38
Mr. Rafey: But what happened, t=
wo
years ago I think Mr. Neibel called me about the, was it 3 years ago?
Mr. Neibel: Something like that.=
Mr. Rafey: Yes, they called me =
that
my neighbor is driving ATV’s and I went there and I noticed there was
some wetlands there, and I went there and talked to him and told him you ca=
nnot
do that, stop right away, he really apologized and I went back to you and to
your wife and I explained that Mr. Coty apologized, he didn’t know th=
at
there was wetlands, even they didn’t know where their property bounda=
ry
is, his kid was driving and then I walked the wetland area, I noticed there
were some tracks that were created by the ATV’s in the wetlands, and I
noticed that if we asked him to bring a machine or something to regrade that
wetlands it would be more disturbance.
Mr. Duplissie: What thing?
Mr. Rafey: I suggested that we =
just
leave it for a growing season to see what happens and I think after one
(inaudible) and some of the vegetation came back and the last time I was th=
ere
I didn’t even notice those tracks that were there. And he did stop the ATV’s ri=
ght away, the day that I went to him he stopped using
ATV’s.
Mr. Neibel: However, that he
didn’t know the property line, all along the property line I found go=
lf
balls that were very symmetrical actually congruent to the property line, a=
nd I
don’t play golf either so they're not mine. But the other thing about the shed=
, this
sounds like it’s a personal thing.&n=
bsp;
I mean when we go to do anything, we get a permit, and we pay the
price. He put the shed up wit=
hout a
permit, it was not needed by the (inaudible).
Mr. Rafey: We noticed that the
(inaudible).
Mr. Neibel: But then he pleads
ignorance, they gave him a permit and a variance.
Mr. Rafey: I didn’t give =
the
variance, the Zoning Board of Appeals (inaudible).
Mr. Neibel: And as far as the po=
ol
goes, when they got a permit for the pool eventually, it’s in the
wetlands, at the time if you remember a couple of years ago we had a drough=
t,
and our pond was down 4 feet, and the wetlands in the back were dry so when
they got the permit, it was an oversight that they were in the wetlands.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 39
I mean there are other
factors too, but to me, I mean my wife is devastated by this. Bernie, you know my wife, I mean s=
he, I
mean she could take you in the woods and tell you every plant that is out
there, that’s the way she is, and they destroyed a wall that was built
during the Civil War. I mean =
you
and I would look at it and say oh, that’s too bad, and she looks at it
and says this is history gone down.
Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, it’s trag=
ic.
Mr. Neibel: I mean it’s sad=
to
lose a pond, but it’s sad to lose somebody that has that kind of insi=
ght.
Mr. Zawadzki: Well at this point t=
he only
thing I can recommend is that we would consult with the Town Attorney and s=
ee
what recourse we have, because as I say we don’t have a lot of weapon=
s in
our arsenal as far as going back to these things, and it’s unfortunat=
e. I own property and people ride
snowmobiles and ATV's though my land too, and I have all sorts of no
trespassing signs. Some people
speed and some people obey the speed limit. Some people obey signs and others =
don’t. They just think that . . .
Mr. Neibel: But there's another =
point
too. I mean I’m a
professional guy and if his kid gets killed on the back of my property, you
know.
Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, oh yea.
Mr. Neibel: Then I mean I’=
m the
guy that’s in court paying the bills.
Mr. Zawadzki: Oh yea.
Mr. Neibel: (Inaudible) the trag=
edy of
losing the kid in the back.
Mr. Zawadzki: I think if somebody =
rides
a snowmobile through my property and falls off and hurts themselves they co=
uld
probably sue me too.
Mr. Neibel: Correct.
Mr. Zawadzki: Even though I have s=
igns
up. At this point I’d
recommend that we consult with the Town Attorney to see if, what recourse we
have and we’ll get back to you, we’ll bring it up at the next, =
at
the very latest at next month’s meeting under Old Business and see wh=
at we
can do.
Mr. Neibel: And as a minor point=
, if I
may say, you guys spelled my name 3 times in the same letter differently.
Mr. Zawadzki: I have that problem =
too.
Mr. Rafey: That’s my mist=
ake, I
apologize for that. (inaudible).
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 40
George Valaitis,
Mr., Valaitis: Can I elaborate a li=
ttle
bit on what Mr. Neibel had presented?
Mr. Zawadzki: Sure.
Mr. Valaitis: Mr. Neibel, I didn&#=
8217;t
even know Mr. Neibel at that time.
That whole area was a grant to a Civil War General for his duty in t=
he Civil
War. There is
a lot of historical things that were destroyed. The quads that they were riding and
racing did not stop until the date, and it could be verified when there was=
an
accident on
Mr. Zawadzki: Well the Town Attorne=
y is
McHugh.
Mr. Rafey: (Inaudible).
Mr. Valaitis: (Inaudible) Jessell =
there
is a memo in your file on it, that he was appointed for this Commission.
Mr. Zawadzki: He’s this Comm=
ission,
but we can go to McHugh.
Mr. Valaitis: Okay, so there’=
;s a
flag on it, you know. The oth=
er
thing is, and I’m going to address through the Chair, regardless what
decision, it’s a tough decision.&nbs=
p;
The law is your manuals and charter is to follow procedure. If you follow procedure nobody is =
going
to blame you, a decision might be wrong or right, praise you or curse you f=
or
it, because you followed procedures.
Today when I see the Planning and Zoning Person and Enforcement Offi=
cer
in Planning and Zoning and Town Planner come up and do the presentation aft=
er
the Public Participation is closed, they could put in, but that area that w=
as
presented on Application #495, should have been done during the Public Part=
icipation
so that the public could ask some questions on it.
Mr. Zawadzki: There was.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 41
Mr. Valaitis: Today?
Mr. Zawadzki: Yes.
Mr. Valaitis: Was it put in the Ag=
enda
that there would be a presentation by her and will the Minutes of the past
meeting be available, June 10th, to follow up on the things?
Mr. Zawadzki: No, but when I calle=
d for
Public Participation, Mary stood up and said she wanted to discuss it.
Mr. Valaitis: But, the Public Part=
icipation
was closed June 10th, wasn’t it?
Mr. Zawadzki: No, that was the Pub=
lic Hearing.
Mr. Valaitis: Public Hearing?
Mr. Zawadzki: On that application.<= o:p>
Mr. Valaitis: Was closed?
Mr. Zawadzki: Right.
M. Valaitis: So she could not sta=
nd up
and present anything more under Public Participation at this meeting becaus=
e it
was closed, because she’s Mr. Public, or as a Town employee where they
have certain things to look up and present. It cannot be one or the other, and
that’s the procedure. Y=
ou
follow? In other words itR=
17;s,
it doesn’t work that way really right because . . . . .
Mr. Polletta: I think that maybe
whatever was presented tonight was because he purchased another piece of
property and I guess maybe they changed certain things and she felt it was
better, it was up to us really if we wanted to do it or not, but the thing =
is I
guess maybe he did not own that before, so I says well before you approve t=
his,
maybe there is a better way to do this.&nb=
sp;
I mean we could have said no, really.
Mr. Valaitis: The procedure is bec=
ause
there was so much changes (inaudible) there shou=
ld
have been another Public Participation (inaudible). I agree with you when I say the
procedure, it’s your decision, I don’t question, but the proced=
ure
followed. I might not like yo=
ur
decision, I might like your decision, but if the proced=
ures
is followed I cannot have any beef, but when the procedure is not
followed, even if the decision is right, I have a beef. You know. And that’s actually you know=
, and
it still bugs me and it should be straightened out before he really comes a=
nd
bites you. (Inaudible) projec=
t is
finished right? It was finish=
ed and
it was opened on July 4th or that weekend, would you believe the=
re is still Minutes to be approved for that project on
today’s Agenda? Some th=
ings
along the line you got to draw a line and say hey the things got to move
on. No use transcribing when =
the
project is done (inaudible).
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 42
Mr. Thermer: You were on this Com=
mittee
previous to me and these items were on there then. Why wasn’t anything done the=
n?
Mr. Valaitis: At that time Town Co=
uncil
said only motions should be in there and they’re going to save money
because they didn’t have enough personnel and the money to transcribe=
it.
Mr. Thermer: Has it changed yet, =
do you
know?
Mr. Valaitis: Then it went back an=
d they
said they’re going to transcribe it.
Mr. Thermer: So the situation is =
the
same now as it was then?
Mr. Valaitis: Yea, but there was a
change on it, but you see it’s still on the agenda, 3 years it's stil=
l on
the Agenda that Minutes have to be approved. You see? The Town Council tries to sell the=
Town
to (inaudible).
Mr. Thermer: George, my question =
was it
was on the agenda when you were on this Committee and nothing was done then,
we’re still working on it just like you were, George (inaudible).
Mr. Valaitis: Right, but Council a=
t that
time had ruled for everybody that only motions and not the minutes would be
transcribed and did not have it and that later on if they need it they will,
but they did not make any ruling that it’s got to stay on the Agenda.=
So that should come back again pro=
bably
from Council, through the Chair, what to do with absolute paperwork. It’s their right,
it takes time to type it.
It’s (inaudible).
That’s why the June 10th minutes are not available
today and it’s being made decision and if you want to review with the=
new
stuff and the old stuff what it was, you can’t do it because the minu=
tes
are not available
It’s understood, July, is a short month and short help
because it’s vacation on it but that does not help the public at
all. And we have got the Town
Planning and Zoning in that office, when the contractor, applicant gives a
check for hiring a consultant, check is cashed within 2 days in Town and the
consultant is never contacted or ordered and everything else, and the
contractor or developer comes in and lets us have it, 3 months later from t=
he
date when he gave the check.
Mr. Thermer: That’s Plannin=
g and
Zoning, George.
Mr.
Thermer and Mr. Valaitis talking at once (inaudible).
Mr. Thermer: My question to you, =
George
. . . . .
Mr. Valaitis: Enforcement Officer =
in the
Wetlands Commission, as a matter of fact, Moosa’s boss.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 43
Mr. Thermer: George, my question =
to you
was this was on the Agenda way back then, nothing was done about it at that
time, it’s the same situation now as it was when you were on the Comm=
ission,
so you are well aware of the issues we’re
facing.
Mr. Valaitis: I know,
that's why I’m trying to relay the message that follow the procedure =
and
all that because it’s going to come down to haunt you.
Mr. Thermer: I think we’re =
all
aware of it, George, thank you.
Mr. Valaitis: All right, I’ll
(inaudible) but I’m just letting you know that things aren’t
working right, and it’s going to come to haunt you.
Mr. Polletta: Is the Council in ch=
arge
about these minutes and stuff like that?
Mr. Rafey: I think we have one =
Minutes
Secretary and she's doing many different commissions and she’s workin=
g,
she’s a part timer. I t=
hink
Mr. Valaitis can go to the Town Council and (inaudible) see why the Town
doesn’t have enough Minutes Secretaries.
Mr. Thermer: It seems to me that
you’re . . . .
Mr. Polletta: You’re angry a=
bout
how come this is not done, how come this is not done, I think you should go
after the Town Council when they have the meeting, and just push them, beca=
use
if they give the Planning and Zoning maybe more help, probably all these th=
ings
approved and we’ll have it done. I mean it seems to me, I mean I
don’t know what this is all about, but it looks like you expect us to
answer you, or why this is not done.
Ma=
ny
people talking at once (inaudible).
Mr. Valaitis: (Inaudible) or might=
be
problems in here that we should look into it and correct or not (inaudible)=
.
Ma=
ny
people talking at once (inaudible).
Mr. Polletta: We tried, we tried to
correct. I ask a lot of quest=
ions,
other people over here ask a lot of questions, but it looks like you’=
re
looking for an answer and I think what you should do is instead of over here
make us another 10 minutes and my wife and the kids are home, I think you
should go to the Town Council and say hey give them more help to the Planni=
ng
and Zoning because we don't have the minutes, and then something should be
done, but you expect somebody to give you an answer, everybody is over here
looking at you because we don’t have the answer. (Tape #3, Side A
ended – may have missed some.)
Planning and Zoning more help and they can probably get it done.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 15, 2004
PAGE 44
Mr. Valaitis: No, but you see when=
the
department head in Planning and Zoning or Town Planner, let’s put it =
this
way, they say hey (inaudible) on this what should we do for the Minutes.
Mr. Polletta: But to the best of my
knowledge they did ask for more help and didn’t get it, so my point i=
s, I
think it’s the public, somebody like you, that you can stand in front=
of
the Council and say these things maybe you can make more smoke and they
probably can get more help, that's what I'm trying to say.
Ma=
ny
people talking at once (inaudible).
Mr. Thermer: Go to them, see if y=
ou can
get your question answered from them and see if we can get the minutes from
them, because there’s nothing that we can do. It’s not Carol, it’s n=
ot
Moosa, it’s not Mary. They’re not the ones holding=
up
the Minutes.
Mr. Valaitis: Mary is the Town Pla=
nner
and Enforcement Officer for Planning and Zoning, and for Wetlands and
Conservation Commission.
Mr. Valaitis: Let me put it this
way. More help, yes. The departments are short and (ina=
udible).
Mr. Thermer: The longer we talk h=
ere
the more minutes it’s going to be for the next one and we won’t=
get
it typed.
13. Adjou=
rnment
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Polletta, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Adjourn the Regular Meeting at 9:40 p.m.
&nbs= p; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&nbs=
p; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&nbs=
p; Regular
Meeting Adjourned at 9:40 p.m.