MINUTES
CONSERVA=
TION
COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR
MEETING
THURSDAY=
, JULY
20, 2006 - 7:30 PM
PRESENT: =
; &n=
bsp; =
; Lucia
DiBona
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Glenn
Duplissie
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Ron
Jones, Secretary
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Joseph
Polletta
=
; &n=
bsp; =
&nb=
sp; Edwin
Undercuffler, Vice Chairman
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; James
Zawadzki, Chairman
ABSENT: =
; &n=
bsp; =
; =
Charles
Thermer
ALTERNATES PRESENT: =
; Martha
Sturgis
ALTERNATES ABSENT: =
; <=
/span>Peter Peluso
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Denise
Russ
OTHERS PRESENT: &n=
bsp; =
; Chuck
Berger, Town Engineer
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Moosa
Rafey, Assistant Zoning Enforcement Officer
1. =
Call
Meeting To Order
Mr.
Zawadzki, Chairman, called the Regular Meeting to order at 8:10 p.m.
2. &nb=
sp; Roll
Call
Mr.
Jones, Secretary, executed the Roll Call.
Mr.
Zawadzki, Chairman, asked Ms. Sturgis to sit in for Mr. Thermer, in his
absence.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 2
3. =
Public
Participation
Mr. Salamone: I have a few comments regarding Item K on the
Agenda.
Mr. Zawadzki: Well we'll cover tha=
t item
when we get to it on the Agenda.
Mr. Salamone: I didn’t get an
opportunity to speak on that item before this Commission vote on that item,=
if
there I going to be a vote.
Mr. Rafey: Mr. Chairman, =
I think
it's okay, they can participate here during Public Participation.
Mr. Salamone: I don't know where t=
his is
going this evening, if it's going anywhere, but just in case, I have a peti=
tion
with some 30 signatures on it from the neighbors on
Mr. Zawadzki: Well if I'm not mista=
ken a
petition like this would have to be submitted within 14 days of the applica=
tion
and that wasn't done, the 14 days has expired.
Mr. Salamone: So this petition is b=
eing
rejected?
Mr. Berger: For this particular i=
tem on
the Agenda that Mr. Salamone is talking about, I've been appointed by the
Planning and Zoning Commission as the Assistant Zoning Enforcement
Officer. I think it would be =
best
if I give you a little bit of input on it.=
The Chairman is correct, the State Statutes do require to be submitt=
ed
within 14 days but I would also note in the Town's regulations, Section 9.1=
, a
petition obtained with signatures of 25 or more persons shall be considered=
as
adequate public interest for the purpose of scheduling a public hearing.
Mr. Zawadzki: There's no stipulatio=
n for
the number of days?
Mr. Berger: Not in the Town
regulations.
Mr. Zawadzki: All right, so I guess
we'll schedule a public hearing on Item K.
Mr. Berger: I'm not sure
administratively if you should do that now or when you get to that item.
Mr. Zawadzki: =
Okay, we'll do it when=
we
get to that item.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 3
Mr. Minnich: I'm also Chairman of=
the
Planning and Zoning Commission. I'm
here to invite this commission to join us on Wednesday, September 27th to
interview this us and also with the Zoning Board of Appeals for the replace=
ment
of Mary Barton's position. We=
have
last night revised and approved a job description for that position which we
will send you a sample, we plan on advertising next week, both locally and
nationally. The process after=
those
come back is the Town Manager's office as well as a (inaudible) will get th=
at
down to about 5, somewhere in that vicinity. They will then invite those people=
to
the interview on the 27th. I'=
m here
to invite you to join us on the 27th.
Brian Clifford, Attorney Representing Shaker's A=
uto
Atty. Clifford: I was just going to
monitor the proceedings, but given the previous gentleman’s comments,=
you
have Agenda Item #8 which is referral to the Middlebury Conservation
Commission, and I have a petition of about 30
Mr. Rafey: Just a question, when =
the
public asks for a public hearing like this, we have to put a legal notice in
the newspaper, and it costs the Town some money. Who is going to pay for the cost o=
f the
legal notice? Are these peopl=
e willing
to do that?
Mr. Zawadzki: That's a good questio=
n.
Mr. Undercuffler: (Inaudible.)
Mr. Rafey: Usually there is an
applicant involved, and we ask the applicant to pay, but this is a referral
from another Town.
Atty. Clifford: Can I ask you what t=
he
estimated cost is?
Mr. Rafey: Whatever the newspap=
er
charges.
Atty. Clifford: Yes, I can represent=
that
my client will pay the cost.
Mr. Zawadzki, Chairman,
Closed Public Participation at 8:22. p.m.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 4
4. =
Action
on Minutes
=
A. =
Continuation of Public Hearing, April 20, 2006, App. #544, Donald
Curtis
=
B. =
Public Hearing, April 20, 2006, App. #547,
=
C. =
Public Hearing, April 20, 2006, App. #546, Patrick Graziano
=
D. =
Public Hearing, April 20, 2006, App. #549, Patrick Graziano
=
E. =
Regular Meeting, April 20, 2006
=
F. =
Continuation of Public Hearing, May 11, 2006, App. #547,
=
G. =
Continuation of Public Hearing, May 11, 2006, App. #546, Patrick
Graziano
=
H. =
Continuation of Public Hearing, May 11, 2006, App. #549, Patrick
Graziano
I. Regular
Meeting May 11,2006
J. &=
nbsp; Continuation
of Public Hearing, June 15, 2006, App. #547,
K. Continuation of Public
Hearing, June 15, 2006, App. #546, Patrick Graziano
L. Continuation of
Public Hearing, June 15, 2006, App. #549, Patrick Graziano
M. Regular Meeting June 1=
5,
2006
N. Special Meeting Public
Hearing, July 6, 2006, App. #552, Anthony Caruso
O. Special Meeting Public Hearing, July 6, 2006, App. #556, Water and Sewer Authority<= o:p>
P. =
Special
Meeting Public hearing, July 6, 2006, App. #557, Donald Curtiss
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr. =
Undercuffler,
sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Table Items 4A through 4P.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
5. =
Pending
Applications
&=
nbsp; A. Application
#546 of Patrick Graziano for 11-lot residential subdivision located on
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; A
decision is required by August 18, 2006.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Undercuffler: I
don't think we had any significant problems with Phase I.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Sturgis: We wanted a stone
wall.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Polletta: Phase
I is the one with the road going right into the wetlands, right?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Sturgis: N=
o.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 5
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: Phase I is the 11 =
lot
subdivision that goes off of
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Sturgis: I
think (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: I=
don't
remember a stone wall in Phase I.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: They did not propo=
se a
stone wall, it was recommended by Land Tech to put a permanent barrier.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: This is Pha=
se II
you just handed out.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: B=
ut
just the front page. Behind <=
st1:place
w:st=3D"on">Lot #1 Land Tech recommended they put a permanent
barrier, a stone wall there. =
It's
up to you, whatever you recommend.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: There was also=
the
preservation of another stone wall that I don't see here.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: It shows it there.=
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: R=
ight
in front of the house on
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: T=
hen we
were going to relocate that wall down the side of the road here. You've got your setback over here.=
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: I=
f you
want you can tell them to (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: N=
o, but
it's not in here, see the 50 foot right here, they're touching it anyway so
when you put the stone wall right alongside the house. I think it works out exactly they'=
re
taking out 150 feet of wall and putting it back in on the left hand side of=
the
road.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Many
people talking at once (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: If you want a ston=
e wall
in the right of way, I know the Public Works Department they like (inaudibl=
e).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: I=
'd
like to have the opportunity to review it before we, I mean we could condit=
ion
upon Town Engineer and Public Works Director review and approval of anything
within the right of way. We
certainly don't want to create a traffic hazard, and that's really going to=
be
in a cut area, as the road is coming through.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: O=
n the
left hand side?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 6
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: Y=
es,
and the wetlands are going to be up above that area, so there's a potential=
for
encroachment into the wetlands as they're coming in the road. I believe we're going to be minima=
l as
compared to the potential on these lots, 1 and 2, where you have the back y=
ard
concerns.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: T=
hat
cut is pretty much through rock, isn't it?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: Y=
es.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: 2
doesn't have any wetlands.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Just 1. I would just caution the commissio=
n, are
we going down the path that this is something we're going to do on all upla=
nd
review areas. It's not a bad =
idea,
but I just want you to think about that as you start in this direction, we =
want
to be as consistent as possible.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: As far as stone
walls, wherever possible yes, I think it's a good idea. What's happened in the past is whe=
n we
don’t put anything there, they just encroach right down, and that's n=
ot
malicious, I think they just want to extend their back yard.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Sturgis: T=
hat's
why I want to see a sign so that it isn't just (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: I=
t says
here you have a back yard here, (inaudible) no back yard.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: I
agree, if this is the cut and it is within that setback area, then maybe th=
at's
not the (inaudible) so we put it here and whatever they take over here they
will move over to the other lots (inaudible). Lot #3 doesn't really have any eit=
her, Phase
II that’s a different, okay,
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey:
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: A=
nd lot
#7 and #8, those are not wetlands, that's just the driveway that's being cut
that way, #7?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Y=
ea,
there's no wetlands.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: T=
hat's not
wetlands, that's just the grading for the driveway that they're showing.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Yea, the wetland
boundaries are those grey lines with the little flat markers. That's just grading there.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: So
we're just propose that having the stone wall with conservation easement
placards on it for
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 7
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: At the close of t=
he
public hearing, I had prepared a memo dated June 15, 2006 that outlined a
number of technical items and at the close of the public hearing I was in
agreement with the engineer with how they were proposing to address them, b=
ut
they had not, nor had I had the opportunity to review anything formally on
it. They responded July 12th =
to my
comments and I believe you have handed out a July 19th memo from me indicat=
ing
that they had substantially addressed all of the items. In my June 15th memo there are a c=
ouple
of minor technical items that still remain to be addressed but they are out=
side
of and will not affect wetlands or wetland review areas.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well if you fee=
l more
comfortable, we have until the 18th of August on this one.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: I=
think
these can be resolved and again they're not anywhere near wetlands, they're
just redirecting a little bit, a couple of the catch basins and redirecting
them where they flow and redirecting the catch basin and the existing catch
basin that will end up in the middle of the intersection, not in the middle,
but not in the appropriate place, those kinds of technical adjustments I'd =
like
to make with the engineer and they are looking at that.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Polletta: S=
o you
feel comfortable for us to vote on this one?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: Y=
es.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; MOTION: (Mr. = Polletta, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Approve Application #546 of Patrick Graziano for 11-= lot residential subdivision located on Lovley Drive, Watertown, CT subject to standard conditions and the addition of a stone wall behind Lot #1, to be on the limit of disturbance on Lot #1.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 8
B. =
Application
#549 of Patrick Graziano for construction of 32-lot Highview Estates
Subdivision, Phase II located on Lovely Drive, Kimberly Lane, and Pond View
Drive, Watertown, CT.
&=
nbsp; If
the Public Hearing is Closed on July 20, 2006, then a decision is required =
by September
22, 2006.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr. =
Polletta,
sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Table Application #549 of Patrick Graziano for
construction of 32-lot Highview Estates Subdivision, Phase II located on Lo=
vely
Drive, Kimberly Lane, and Pond View Drive, Watertown, CT.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; C. Application
#552 of Anthony Caruso for construction of 8-lot Lakeside Estates Subdivisi=
on,
Phase II located on
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; The
public hearing will continue on August 10, 2006.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Polletta) to Table Application #552 of Anthony Caruso for construction of 8-lot Lakeside Estates
Subdivision, Phase II located on Caruso Drive, Watertown, CT. and have them
grant us a 35 day extension.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; D. Application
#556 of Town of
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; The
Public Hearing ill continue on August 10, 2006.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. DiBona) to Table Application #556 of Town of Watertown, Water and Sewer Authority for installation of
Wattles Brook Interceptor Sanitary Sewer located in Oakville, CT.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 9
&=
nbsp; E. =
Application
#557 of Donald Curtiss, for 13-Lot Bassett Hollow Residential Subdivision, =
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; The
Public Hearing will continue on August 10, 2006.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Ms. Sturgis) to Table Application #557 of Donald Curtiss, for 13-Lot Bassett Hollow Residential Subdivisio=
n,
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; F. =
Application
#564 of Ronald Nordby for installation of storm drainage pipes within regul=
ated
area at
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a Public Hearing is not held, then a decision is required by August 18, 200=
6.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: We did a site walk on t=
his,
so everybody had some thoughts on this one so now is the time to get them on
the record.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: We met with the applica=
nt . .
. .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ronald Nordby,
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: D you have any question=
s?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: Have you changed what y=
ou
wanted to originally do, are you going to continue and put the full pipe in,
have you modified it, are you going to shorten the length, what have you
decided?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: On Monday I submitted to
Moosa that I would like to put the entire length in, I probably will do it =
in
sections and add on, cause I'm doing it myself, but I would like to apply f=
or
the permit for the entire thing, in case I do want to do the full thing I c=
an
do it. But I did take your re=
commendation
seriously. It is true that by=
going
farther I could spend a lot of money for nothing.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: At the site we talked a=
bout
originally you had planned on putting the 160 feet or whatever it was lengt=
h of
pipe because you wanted to put a
little bit of fill on the bottom which is actually wetlands, and we asked y=
ou
stay away from that area, and you're going to stay on the upland area, and
you're going to regrade the upland area, but you're going to continue to pu=
ll
the pipe down just past that outlet and you're going to regrade that area, =
is
that correct?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 10
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: That is correct. The area that is delineated a wetl=
ands,
I will not be doing any work in whatsoever except to clear that (inaudible)
that we talked about. Only wi=
thin
the setback area will I do some grading (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Undercuffler: Moosa, is this documentation adequa=
te for
enforcing?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: It gives me an idea of =
where
everything is, but it's not done by scale. I just talked to Mr. Cavanaugh t=
oday
about that piping of 160 feet of the watercourse and Mr. Cavanaugh said he
doesn't care about how far they want to go, but he didn't make any recommen=
dation
that it has to be 160 feet long. It’s
up to the Commission about how long you allow the applicant to pipe that.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Undercuffler: On the drawing here for example on =
the
back, it says the 40 feet, it looks like that's going to be filled 40 feet =
out,
is that correct?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: One side is 40, it's a
straight line when you look at it. <=
/span>She
made references with reference to the ramp for measurements, so 40 feet was
from one side because that side of the ramp was much further closer to my
house, and the 13 feet measurement that she made, that part of the ramp is =
much
farther out, so in reality the line is near perfectly straight.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: I think on the site wal=
k some
commission members mentioned that filling within the 50 foot setback area is
okay but they shouldn't touch the wetland area, and that will be the limit =
of disturbance
on the property. When I issue=
a
permit I'll make sure that I mention that in the permit, that they cannot t=
ouch
the wetland area.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: Right, typically we don=
't
like them to go into that 50 foot setback are, but in this case here he's g=
ot
the Town that put a pipe in his back yard and dumping water there so . . . =
.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: It's already disturbed.=
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: Right, it's already had=
fill,
so we're not going to allow him to go any further than that filled area, he=
'll
stay out of the wetlands, he'll grade within that area, but he'll stay out =
of
the wetlands.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: That is correct.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: The only time you'll ac=
tually
invade the wetlands is if you continue to pipe the whole 50 foot length.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 11
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: It's funny, the way she
delineated it, it's not actually a wetland where that water runs and it did=
n't
make any sense to me either.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: I understand but what h=
appens
is you're going to have to bring a machine into that area, so the drainage
swale is right here and the wetlands is 5 feet away, so in order to get to =
it
you'll have to walk into the wetlands with the machine, with whatever back =
hoe
or truck you bring down there.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: Possibly a very small m=
achine
but I plan to do this as low budget as possible.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: Moosa, all the pipes th=
at
were given to you by the Town and you’re going to install them, all t=
he
way to the end?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: That's correct, all the=
way
to the end, I was told I can't go any closer than 10 feet (inaudible) my pr=
operty
line.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: How do you propose to m=
ove
those sections, how much do they weigh?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: Actually I moved them o=
ff the
truck, they're plastic and they're hard to maneuver but they're not very he=
avy.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: The deepest section of =
fill
is going to be 3 feet?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: Yes, that's what I appr=
oximate,
it probably won't even be that deep in most places.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: And that's just to achi=
eve a
grading . . . .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: At least a flat surface,
probably not level, but at least flat.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: But it will slope?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: Yes, it will probably s=
till
have to slope, I'm just looking to get it level so it looks nice.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: As a mitigation to the
proposed regulated activity within the 50 foot setback area, we did discus =
it
on the site walk that Mr. Nordby is going to clean that wetlands, remove so=
me
of the plants and other garbage, he will clean that area and leave the
vegetation the way it is.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: I will not kill the
vegetation.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: But by hand.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 12
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: Yes, wheelbarrow, I don=
't
expect it to be much.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: How can you move those =
big
stumps by hand?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: They're actually not st=
umps,
they're fallen trees, something that can be moved. I'll probably drag them onto the s=
ide,
the right on the line and then cut them up and remove them.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: I think Mr. Nordby is g=
oing
out of his way to resolve a problem that the Town created and it's apprecia=
ted.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: Just ask Chuck about th=
ese
drawings, if there is something that can be done according to these, any su=
ggestions
on the installation of the pipe?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: I'm at somewhat of a
disadvantage because I haven't seen the site, and this is the first time I'=
ve
seen these plans and they're difficult for me to follow. I'd be happy to work with Moosa an=
d the
applicant.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: I feel that because the=
Town
created this problem, you can give him probably a hand if you have some tim=
e to
help him out, but anytime the Town creates a problem in somebody else's yar=
d, I
think we should go out of our way to help them out.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: You haven't seen the si=
te,
but he's got a ditch that the pipe ends and then he's got a drainage ditch
that's creating erosion and it's now about 5.5 feet deep at some points and=
5
feet wide and every time you have a major rain storm this thing erodes and
there's more and more erosion so as far as the grade of the pipe and whatev=
er
suggestions you have for him, without making it too difficult, he's willing=
to
undertake this.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: I have a drawing in my =
hand
that is to scale, it's of my own doing, maybe that will help.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: I think we can make this
conditional that whatever drawings he comes up with will meet with your
approval.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: Obviously the Town is
interested in helping because we put some pipe in his property and I’m
sure that
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: Do you want to see his
drawing and see if that clarifies it, or (inaudible) later?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: The situation is very s=
imilar
that one over there on
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 13
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: I have a little bit of
difficulty with, I mean there are drainage pipes throughout town that the t=
own
has put in to provide safe travel ways.&nb=
sp;
If we've diverted water on somebody's property then yea, we're to bl=
ame,
but water flows downhill and it's been flowing downhill for a whole bunch of
years (Tape #2, Side A ended - may have missed some). And this may be a different situat=
ion
and it probably is, because we're already assisting out there.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: Gave me $5,000 worth of=
pipe
and a contract to go along with it, I'm sure they have some interest in it.=
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: And I agree with you th=
at
it's not always the case (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: Everything is the Town's
fault.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: But I think on this one=
, when
you look at it, it is like Trolane, there is major erosion out there and I =
think
if we could mitigate some of that erosion that would be a plus.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Let's see your drawing.=
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: The drawing is to scale=
. The area that he spoke of where th=
ere is
a tremendous amount of erosion is right here where the water travels. There is quite a bit of erosion an=
d by
installing the tube from this point to within 10 feet of the edge of the
property, it would eliminate all of the erosion because we're at grade level
right here. Up here we're abo=
ut 25
feet above what's down here, so this is how we can control erosion, placing
gravel at the outlet down here, so that it dissipates nicely in the same ex=
act
manner that it currently dissipates in, with less erosion, and this is the
area, this is the setback area where I propose to put fill and mostly I'm n=
ot
talking about garbage fill, like nice fill, loom, so I can plant grass and =
this
is the area right here, I'm going to cut this back substantially, there won=
't
be any driving access to it or anything like that, it's just stairs, walk d=
own
the hill basically, that's pretty much the extent of it. Do you have any questions?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: I still need to do a fi=
eld
walk but I think if the Commission is of the mind to move forward, even
condition upon our review and approval and whatever assistance we can provi=
de.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: Again I agree with you =
that
we don't want him going in and putting in a pipe and creating more damage so
depending on the conditions of what you have, I'm more than willing to wait=
for
your recommendations if you want or if you want to move forward with it the=
n you
can handle the details with Mr. Nordby.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Undercuffler: Why don't e just approve it?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 14
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: Can I make a suggestion=
, that
this Commission puts a limit on the length of the pipe. I think 160 feet is too much
piping. What about 80 feet?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: I think we're having a
problem with the length of the pipe is some of you may feel that it may be =
my
intention to do something in the future; that isn't the case. If I was going to do something like
that, here I have 160 feet of pipe in my back yard, what did the Town expec=
t me
to do with that pipe? Did the=
y expect
me to look at it? The idea of
coming here is to do everything the right way, so that the tube goes into t=
he
earth properly and it's on record and I made sure that I covered all my
ground. I have no intention o=
f, my
hope was, the soil scientist agreed with me, this water is definitely causi=
ng
damage to the land that wasn't there previous. Unfortunately the only way to prov=
e that
is to put in a tube and watch what happens to it. I feel it's worth a gamble if it d=
ries
up, it will definitely increase the value of the property. If it doesn't then I spent money a=
nd put
extra pipe in for nothing, but it's not going to harm anything by doing it.=
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Undercuffler: What's your logic behind that?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: If there is existing we=
tlands
this Commission doesn't want to encourage this applicant to put a pipe thro=
ugh
the entire length of the wetlands to dry that wetland area. The limit that Mr. Nordby shows, t=
hat
green line, the wetlands starts from there. If he can put a pipe at 80 or 90 f=
eet
and then put a rip rap plunge pool at the outlet of the pipe in that back y=
ard
area, you can use it, you can grade it, you can fill it, just from the edge=
of
the wetlands on this side, what is the use of that property. Anyway you cannot use it.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: Even if it does dry up,=
it
probably has very little use anyway but the other thing you said is going
through it, in actuality the wetland delineation does like this, it doesn't,
this area is not in the wetlands, where this water runs is considered uplan=
d by
her own, I just put the markers out and showed them.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: As part of the 50 foot =
buffer
zone.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: In the buffer area.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: I'm still within the 50=
foot
buffer zone, yes but the actual area where the water is traveling doesn't r=
each
a wetland until it gets beyond my property line.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: This property is within=
the
watershed of Turkey Brook and there are some flooding problems, you don't w=
ant
to create any problems there.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 15
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: This torrential rain ha=
sn't
affected the ability to navigate this land, it's not flooded or anything do=
wn
there, so I feel adding a tube isn't going to change anything, because the
water is coming down and it's going over here anyway, so by putting the tub=
e in
all it's doing is putting it underground basically.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: Who came up with the id=
ea of,
how come you have all this pipe in the back of your yard?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Who decided it should b=
e 160
feet?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: That was the measuremen=
t that
we came up with, again if I go 10 feet short of my property line because th=
ey
felt that was perfectly fine. Obviously I can't go on somebody el=
se's
property and I have to be 10 feet setback because I need 10 feet in order to
dissipate with the gravel so when I had spoken to the Department of Public =
Works
they felt that we measured it, and we needed 160 feet to accomplish this ta=
sk,
so that' where the measurement came from.&=
nbsp;
The reason they were so willing to cooperate with me was because whe=
re
this storm outlet is shows the water going off my land, some other people f=
elt
they could just do whatever they wanted and now the water is my problem.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: Do you know how long th=
at
pipe has been there?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: Since 1975.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: Ho long have you owned =
the
property?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: 2 years. When I purchased the property I go=
t all
the information on it, and it didn't show any right of way or easement or
anything through my land. Aft=
er I
purchased it I went back there and I found it was different. You couldn't go there, I cleaned i=
t up
quite a bit, but it's a problem that I'm willing to take care of without go=
ing
any further with this.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: So if we get it out of =
the
Agenda, make it subject to conditions (inaudible) you have to meet with the=
m.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: I think we should wait =
until
Chuck decides on it and gives us his recommendation. Do you want to do that?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: It's your call.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: Let's let you make the
decision on what you, research into the pipe and why they drained onto the =
property
to begin with.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 16
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: Chuck, you never lo9oke=
d at
that?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby:
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: Let’s give Chuck a
couple of weeks to put his eyes on it and report back to us, is that all
right? If we vote on it tonig=
ht
it's going to be subject to him anyway so you can't do anything until he lo=
oks
at it.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: That would be absolutely
fine, but can we take a vote anyway s I know how the Commission feels about
this?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: It will have to meet yo=
ur approval.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: As the applicant has
indicated, Roy Cavanaugh has been involved in this process so that's why I'=
m a
little more agreeable to if you want to take action on it subject to our re=
view
and approval, Roy has already met, been on site . . . .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: Make it subject to your
approval I'm okay with that.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: That works for me. Since
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: If somebody (inaudible)
whatever he has to do he has to go through you and make sure it's okay.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: Roy and Rick Duffy have
already looked at it, I'm (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: If you want to make a
decision, it should be subject to the recommendation by the soil
scientist. In the report the =
soil
scientist said if you bring the pipe to the lower part of the property that
will be enough. She doesn't s=
ay it
has to be the entire length of the property.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: She doesn't recommend t=
he
length whatsoever, I mean I didn't feel that that was necessary. Is there any particular reason why=
you
want me to stop?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: Because we want that we=
tlands
to stay wetlands. If you pipe=
that
entire area, you defeat the whole purpose of this commission and the
regulations. You have a probl=
em, we
understand that, you can pipe it to correct the problem but there is no rea=
son
that should drain all those wetlands.
It is a very sensitive area, you are next to Turkey Brook.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: On the site wall you sa=
id
that you agreed with everything (inaudible).
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 17
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: And the soil scientist =
report
you have a copy of this.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: I read it. The Town of
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: I think that's an issue=
with
the Public Works Department, and that's not the responsibility of this Comm=
ission
of why they are dumping water on your property. On the site walk I think you agree=
d that
whatever your soil scientist recommended you would follow those recommendat=
ion,
and it's in the report that bring the pipe to the lower part of the property
and just leave it to flow over the land, but if the Commission wants to app=
rove
it to the end of the property . . . .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: I think with him workin=
g with
Cavanaugh and giving him 160 feet of pipe, I don't know what the reason was=
for
the 160 feet, but I think if Chuck reviews that with
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: It does have a benefit =
to the
Town, a possible benefit, which I hope never comes true, but there is a pap=
er
road along the backside of my property and by bringing the pipe as close to=
this
line, if they ever decided to develop this, which they better never, but if
they did, it would give them easy hookup to the storm drain which is what t=
hey
would need.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: With that said I think =
we'll
put it in Chuck's hand and let him review it with
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Undercuffler: =
Yea
but Roy Cavanaugh is not the Inland/Wetlands (inaudible). If the soil scientist said that's
wetlands down there, it's wetlands.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, but she also said =
and I
quote "to stabilize and protect the storm water runoff channel, I beli=
eve
piping the flow from the existing outlet, the red spot there, to the lower =
part
of the site". The whole
length, I assume the lower part of the site is down at the bottom of the
drawing.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: This is the lowest part=
.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 18
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Will have no adverse im=
pact
to the wetlands. Installing t=
he
pipe will permit the land to stabilized and will reduce the potential from
further erosion that's currently occurring in the channel.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: (Inaudible) then it goe=
s to
the bottom, I mean there had to be a reason why they gave . . . . .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: The bottom of the site =
would
not be the wetland boundary, it would be the bottom f the property.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: But the flip side of th=
at
Moosa, is if
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: I talked to Roy today o=
n the
phone, and he said that he doesn't care about the length of the pipe, that's
how much the Commission wants to approve to put there, he got an easement f=
rom
the property owner, and the Town gave some pipe so he can correct that
problem. But again the Commis=
sion
should look at the wetland issue. I
mean if you don't have a problem with it to let him pipe that entire length
that's fine.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: I just worry about the
erosion from that trench. I w=
ant to
eliminate the erosion. If it =
dries
up, I don't think that the water from the drainage from the road coming onto
the property is what has made the wetlands. There is a drainage swale that goe=
s all
the way down. I think there w=
as existing
wetlands down there. So it wi=
ll not
be drying if it will still be there, but I think the piping will stop the
erosion and if we stop the erosion from going into Turkey Brook, I like tha=
t,
so I think at this point I'm willing to let Chuck review it with Roy as to =
what
the mindset was for giving the 160 feet, and then I think between Chuck and=
Roy
they can make the decision as to how many feet they're going to put in and =
how
they're going to end it with a rip rap swale at the end or a sediment pad,
whatever they want to do.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: I think we should state=
we
agree up to the 160 feet, and if they want to do less that's okay, cause
(inaudible) what the soil scientist says here, why she said the bottom of t=
he
site and that to me that would be the bottom of the property which is not
actually in the wetlands anyway, it's in the buffer.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 19
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Jones: Mr. Nordby, isn't it the
thought that possible benefit of having that pipe go that far might be that=
in
years to come that area would dry up but apparently the soil scientist has
indicated that wouldn't be the case.
So if that's part of what motivates you, and that's what I understoo=
d,
(inaudible) anyhow and then the other question becomes when man makes a
wetlands, if we did make it because of our own Highway Department, does it
follow that our group here should correct it? Should our benefit be with you or =
if
this happened to you by the Town, shouldn't the Town be responsible?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: If there was an easement
existing when he bought the property it would have been one thing for the
drainage swale and that would be it, but there was no easement in place, so=
now
that leaves a question, so we go back to leaving this to Chuck and Roy as to
what their mindset was. I thi=
nk
Chuck is in our corner as far as if it's going to dry up a wetlands you're =
not
going to allow it, and if it's going to help us and stop the erosion, I thi=
nk
he'll make that decision in our favor rather than anybody else's.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: I think we should keep =
into
consideration (inaudible) and interpret it in a way that it doesn't say you
only got to go 50 or 60 feet. I
think the way I understand that letter is they have to go al the way to the=
end
and it's not going to affect the wetlands.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: It says lower, it doesn=
't say
what lower was. Distinct elev=
ations
in property there, so she could have meant the lower elevation or the lower=
end
of the property, we don't know.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: I can contact her.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Well lower to me means =
the
lowest spot.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Nordby: When you get down there=
it
does slope down quite a bit, even though you're at the bottom. I went through the whole site with=
her,
I didn't think this was going to be an issue with the length of pipe seeing
that the Town predetermined, I mean they're not going to give me extra pipe=
, I
didn't know the length of the pipe was a problem or I would have had the so=
il
scientist be a little more . . . . .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms. Sturgis: I think if we're going =
to
approve it, we can't restrict the length of this pipe, we can approve it
subject to Chuck, but if we approve it and say you can only do 60 feet of p=
ipe,
that's not fair. (Inaudible) =
and
get more information.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: Do you have a problem with us leavi=
ng it subject
to you, Chuck?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 20
<= o:p>
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Berger: I don't know, I'm having second th=
oughts
at this point, listening to the Commission members discussion here, maybe i=
t is
best to table it and let me go back and talk to Roy and see what his thought
were because I'm brand new to this issue tonight. I apologize, this is the first tim=
e I've
heard of it.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: And maybe t=
alk to
Cynthia Rabinowitz.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Berger: What
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: On that basis we'll table it.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: We’ll ta=
ble it
and wait until Chuck gets back to us next month.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Nordby: Can I make it easier? If we go shorter, I'm not quite, s=
he had
said that the tube is not going to adversely affect this. I'm not sure what we’re tryi=
ng to
investigate. I mean the pipe =
is on my
land, he's well aware of what I was going to do with it.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Polletta: The only thing we can do is make i=
t subject
to condition and then you have to go (inaudible).
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Nordby: I would be happy to do that if you=
would
make it subject to his approval.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: You can make a dec=
ision
subject to Chuck's approval and (inaudible) by Cynthia Rabinowitz or what s=
he
meant by the lower part. Is t=
hat
the end of the property or whatever?
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr. =
Polletta,
sec. Ms. Sturgis) to Approve Application #562 of Ronald Nordby for installation of storm drainage pipes within
regulated area at 255 Riverside Street, Oakville, CT subject to conditions =
and
approval by Mr. Berger and discussion with Cynthia Rabinowitz.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 21
&=
nbsp; G. Application
#562 of Vinie Lupacino for selective timber harvesting at
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a public hearing is not held, then a decision is required by August 18, 200=
6.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Nell
Harder, Forrester
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Harder: I prepared the
application and the map.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: It looks pretty
clear. Any questions?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: There was just=
that
little stream with the logs in the stream . . . .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: As I mentioned in my Ju=
ne 9th
memo, I think timber harvesting in wetlands is permitted by right. The only issue in front of you is a
crossing of that watercourse.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: That looks
acceptable.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Duplissie: That’s typical for a crossin=
g.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: It's a temporary
crossing, they will remove everything that they put there.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Polletta) to Approve Application #562 of Vinie Lupacino=
for
selective timber harvesting at 74 Old Army Road, Watertown, CT subject to
standard conditions.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
H. =
; Application
#563 Golden Acres, LLC for construction of 11 lot Golden Acres Subdivision,=
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a public hearing is not held, then a decision is required by August 18, 200=
6,
unless applicant grants an extension of time.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Emily
Jones, Professional Engineer, Civil One
=
; &n=
bsp; Ms.
Jones: We did take a site walk on the 8th=
and
there weren't too many comments, but I just wanted to get a feel from the
Commission on their findings and what they saw and some feedback and answer=
any
questions that you might have.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 22
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Just a technicality, on your site map, =
you
left out lot #11.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: You're right, orig=
inally
it was going to be a first cut, so it's now included in the subdivision.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: There is an
existing, why doesn’t the road come in there so you don’t have =
to
cut a new road?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: Well it's not quit=
e a
road, but we talked about it a little bit at the site walk, about the reaso=
n we
originally did that, there were 2 reasons, we couldn't bring the road in on
this side of the house because of the setbacks from the house to the proper=
ty
line and then also the applicant had decided to keep a certain amount of
land. Since then and I've kin=
d of
been thinking about that question, we have begun looking and taking a
preliminary look at doing that, basically coming in here, (inaudible) across
here and coming across the existing crossing and down meeting the road and =
we
haven't done a detailed engineering plan of it yet, but it looks like at fi=
rst
glance that it could work and it would probably be less impact, so if the
Commission would like I could draw complete (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Where does =
that
existing road or trail came in?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: Actually right nex=
t to
the exiting house's driveway. And
the problem with bringing the road in up here is that there is actually only
about 90 feet from this corner of the house to the property line. You need a 50 foot right of way an=
d then
you need a 50 foot front setback from that right of way line so we're like =
5 or
10 feet short, but bringing it in here and scooping it up and then bringing=
it
back down, actually it looked like it would be about 1/2 to 2/3 of the impa=
ct.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: If you put the=
sweep
in, compared to where it's going in right now?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: Right.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: And the Planning a=
nd
Zoning Commission will be happy with that curve there.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: Is that the=
store
out there that we're looking at?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Jones: Yes. Once these, if the applicant gets
approved and the road gets approved to go in, all of these buildings will be
removed but the house will stay.
Actually she won't be able to run a farm stand anymore cause (inaudi=
ble)
has to have 5 acres and after the subdivision they don’t have that.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Rafey: What kind of piping are you propos=
ing
under the road for that crossing?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 23
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: As we discussed on=
the
site walk, what we propose is a 5 foot wide by 4 foot high 4 sided box culv=
ert
because it creates the least amount of impact for instillation, you don't h=
ave
to over excavate to pour footings, you excavate a little below the natural
stream bed, put the 4 sided box culvert in and then the stream bed can fill=
in
to be a natural bed right in the bottom of the culvert. It's plenty adequate to pass the 5=
0 foot
storm.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And the wetland
crossing at that juncture right there, what's the length of it?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Jones: About 110 feet.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: Of wetlands, 1=
10 x
30.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: Actually it's less=
when
you come up here, it's less than 100.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And that's the
stream, correct?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: There's an existin=
g pond
here and it feeds I think Steele Brook, it's in the very upper part of it s=
it's
nowhere near Steele Brook or open water.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: But there is r=
unning
water?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: Right now there's =
not so
much but in the Spring, yes.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: How many pipes =
are
you laying in there, one?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: One culvert, yes.<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> It's a rectangular box culvert, 4 =
feet
high x 5 feet wide.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: What if you com=
e in
where you said you couldn't on the old road bed there, even though you̵=
7;re
5 feet short and ask for a variance?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: I'm not sure if it=
would
make much difference because you come in here before the 50 foot setback and
the 150 turning radius fits nicely in here so that it's not a bigger sweepi=
ng
curve it just about fits that.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Is the 4 x 5 b=
ox
culvert, I know on some of the developments we've done, we've put an arch i=
n rather
than put a box culvert in. Wo=
uld
that be a better design than a box culvert? I know they're more expensive, but
you've got 100 feet of wetlands and a stream that flows through it, so if we
put an arch instead, I'm not saying arch the whole 120 feet, but an arch th=
at
was 5 or 6 feet high by 15 feet or something would create a better flow and
would keep the wetlands contiguous rather than going through a 4 foot
fence. I know it's more expen=
sive
but it's nicer for the wetlands.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 24
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: That would be one=
of my
comments as I review it to look at other alternatives to a hard bottom and =
is
it necessary to have a hard bottom due to velocity concerns or otherwise and
the Commission, as you've stated, has gone more towards the open bottom
structures wherever possible.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Yea, the open b=
ottom
has the gravel, right?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: But this would be =
sunken
in slightly into the existing ground, so sort of a natural streambed can be
created inside that and it's more than adequate to convey the flow that com=
es
through there. (Tape #2, Side=
B
ended - may have missed some.)
Obviously we'll look at it if (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well it comes u=
nder
the heading of feasible and prudent alternatives that you might want to
consider.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: I think other =
than
that, if you move it uphill, if you make the "s" turn and move it=
and
take less wetlands I think if you investigated putting in the arch, other t=
han
that I don't have any problems with the rest of the site.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Ms. Jones: We'll look at it.<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Right now it's=
about
3,500 square feet of disturbance of wetlands.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: I think it's about=
11.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: 11,000 square =
feet?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: And that would be =
cut
down to less than 5.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: At this curb
crossing it's 11,000 square feet, if you move it up you're going to go to 3=
500
so if you leave it here you have to go to the Corps of Engineers, right?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: Correct.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And if you mov=
e it
up, you don't have to.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: From 11,000 to 3,5=
00?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: Not 3,500 just und=
er
5,000.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: A little under
5,000, that's a big difference.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 25
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: And with that, I m=
ean
there's a lot smaller (inaudible) and with the design of this box culvert,
that's really why we feel we can use a box culvert, and we were talking abo=
ut
(inaudible) and creating the larger (inaudible) perhaps that would be more
appropriate, but it is a much lesser crossing and still it's concentrated a=
s it
I right now, but we'll look at it, but that is our first proposal, our firs=
t choice.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: In order to hav=
e a
public hearing we need to get an extension on this.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Jones: That's fine, yea, =
I just
drafted (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well Moosa has =
a form
(inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: You don't need an
extension, you have until August 18th to hold a public hearing and the next
meeting is August 10th.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Before you schedul=
e a
public hearing you should determine whether this is a significant activity.=
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well I think it=
's in
the public interest, whether it is, I think it behooves a public hearing.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Even if it
(inaudible) significant impact, and especially since this involves the head=
wall
to Steel Brook here.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Polletta) that Application #563 Golden Acres, LLC for construction of 11 lot Golden Acres Subdivis=
ion,
Litchfield Road, Watertown, CT Is A Significant Activity.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr. =
Polletta,
sec. Mr. Duplissie) Schedule a Public Hearing for Application #563 Golden Acres, LLC for construction o=
f 11
lot Golden Acres Subdivision, Litchfield Road, Watertown, CT.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 26
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Polletta) to Table Application #563 Golden Acres, LLC for construction of 11 lot Golden Acres Subdivis=
ion,
Litchfield Road, Watertown, CT.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
I. =
; Application
#565 of Edwin Dolton for construction of a new single family dwelling at
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a public hearing is not held, then a decision is required by August 18, 200=
6,
unless applicant grants an extension of time.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Gary
Giordano, Professional Engineer and Land Surveyor
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Giordano: We do have some
revised drawings we'd like to hand the Commission. I made a reduced one, that you can=
pass
around, I highlighted in pink that stone wall you wanted added, and put a
little 6 foot addition onto the house.&nbs=
p;
I'll give these to Moosa to put in the file unless you want to see a
full sized drawing.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: No, (inaudible) sm=
all.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Giordano: We also have th=
e soil
scientist report, how many copies of that would you like?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: Just one for the f=
ile.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Giordano: If you have any
questions after the field walk we'll (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well I think we
agreed that the site line was the overriding problem there for the driveway=
and
since it's a non-conforming lot in the first place, it really doesn't leave=
too
many options.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: If this was a
subdivision and they wanted to add this lot as part of the subdivision we w=
ould
say no, make it open space, but it's an existing lot, and to move the drive=
way
further uphill away from the wetlands makes it a horrible site line. People are going to come up over t=
hat
hill and he'll be backing out of his driveway and there are going to be maj=
or
problems so I think on the site we agreed to put the driveway on the . . . =
. .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Polletta: You're going to=
put
that stone wall on the (inaudible)?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Giordano: Yes, that goes =
all
the way up the street line, correct.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 27
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: So you'll buil=
d the stone
wall as delineation, I don't know if we need that as a conservation easemen=
t or
not, but it's so close to the wetlands, and we talked about you extending t=
he
garage another 6 feet.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Giordano: Right (inaudibl=
e).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: What is a rain
garden? I don't think we disc=
ussed
that out in the field.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Giordano: A rain garden is
typically some place where you're going to put your roof leaders in to hold=
it
and kind of pond it. I don't =
think
I'm proposing on e on here, am I?
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: I suggested at the outlet of the pipe to investigate to see if it's possible to put it there.<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Giordano: I just put a li=
ttle
rip rap spreader (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well normally we
require a storm water management plan, this site development does not conta=
in a
storm water management plan and it's suggested that construction of a rain
garden at the outlet of the footing and roof drain be considered for storm
water management treatment. R=
ain
gardens are recommended in Connecticut Storm Water Quality Management System
for small drainage areas on residential properties.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Giordano: Right, I think
(inaudible) gravel on the bottom. We
could do that, the only thing is we're very limited on our space on that si=
de of
the property. I think by doin=
g it
with the roof leaders that I have in those details there with the energy
dissipater you're kind of doing the same thing with the soil conditions that
are there.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: If you need (inaud=
ible)
very sensitive (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Giordano: It's the same t=
hing
we're dong, only we're not making a depression on it that's all, I'm just
trying to get back to surface runoff.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Don't get nervous,=
it's
not like a major change.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: It's not major=
, but
I'll tell you what, when you have your house finished and you go out there =
when
the water is coming down and you go look at the outlet pipe fro your and it
comes up from your roof gutters it all comes out in that one 4 inch pipe, it
shoots out the end of that pipe.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 28
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Giordano: Well that's wha=
t the
energy dissipater will do for you on that little detail, I have the same th=
ing
on my house and it does a very good job, believe me, you're putting it back=
in
sheet flow is what you're doing.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Is the roof lea=
der
and the footing leader the same?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Giordano: They are 2 sepa=
rate
pipes.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: I only see the
footing leader there.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Giordano: (Inaudible.)
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well it says
footing/leader.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Giordano: Yes, that's usu=
ally
one line delineates those 4 inch pipes.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: So it's the same
pipe?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Giordano: No, it's 2 sepa=
rate
pipes.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Are they parall=
el?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Giordano: Yes.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Do they share a
trench?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Giordano: Yes, they're ri=
ght
next to each other.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Typically the
footing drain usually has no water in it.&=
nbsp;
It's there just to pick up excess water to alleviate the hydraulic p=
ressure
against the foundation.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Any other comme=
nts?
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Polletta, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Approve Application #565 of Edwin Dolton for construction of a new single family dwelling a=
t 83
Bryant Road, Watertown, CT subject to standard conditions plus the stone wa=
ll
and whatever else we discussed.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 29
B. =
;
Ap=
plication
#566 of The Bailie Company for construction of a new commercial building Fo=
od
Distribution Facility on a parcel aka drive-in movie theater located on Fro=
st
Bridge Road, Watertown, CT.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a public hearing is not held, then a decision is required by August 18, 200=
6,
unless applicant grants an extension of time.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; John
Harriman, Engineer, Nafis Engineers
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: On the 8th we h=
ad a
wetland walk with the Commission. A
couple of questions were asked, I posted a response to Moosa on the 10th.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: I think we tal=
ked
about possibly the driveway coming in, we talked about a swale on the high =
side
but we didn't know if there was enough property between the driveway and the
road.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: Yea, I addressed
those comments in my memo. (I=
naudible)
one being that I think there was a release from a truck or vehicle along the
driveway there and there was no curb or catch basin to catch (inaudible) wi=
nd
up going directly into the swale and quickly on the neighbor's property.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: So now you're =
saying
you had a truck that had a problem that leaked, (inaudible) water separator=
?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Harriman: No, we had prop=
osed a
deep stone catch basin (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: How much?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: The majority of=
it whereas
if you had nothing you'd have no capture.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: During the fiel=
d trip
I asked about the sump pumps, who will monitor that? The State? Who is going to clean them?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: Because of the =
size
of this activity we will have to have a storm water discharge permit with t=
he
State. There is a Storm water
Management Plan as part of our engineering report, I'm sorry a Storm Water
Maintenance Plan as part of the engineering report and it would be up to the
tenant to maintain the storm water system.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 30
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: My question is,=
I'm
in the construction business and sometimes people say they're going to do a=
lot
of things, because the river is so close, my concern is on the field trip t=
hat
these things will be maintained. If
the tenant doesn't do this, who is responsible for that? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: (Inaudible.) &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: You have to su=
bmit (inaudible)
every year for the discharge? There
is some paperwork that has to be done on a yearly basis for the D.O.T.,
co9rrect? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: Yes. &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: So you have to=
meet
the standard (inaudible). &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Polletta: (Inaudible) if =
they
come and check. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: Yes. &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: How many square=
feet
will the building be? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: 101,200. &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: You said you re=
moved
all the asphalt, right now it's very close to the back, it will all be remo=
ved,
right? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: Yes, our propos=
al is
to remove all the existing coverage, that's a good point, we have 41% cover=
age
on the site now, basically this yellow area here, and our proposal is to re=
move
that, Make this the parking area, the driveway around, the truck loading do=
ck,
and of course the riverfront greenway trail which is 10 feet in width of
pavement, with additional 4 feet of soft trails going up. The total coverage at that point w=
ould
be 25%, a significant reduction. &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: In the parking =
area
they're putting in catch basins? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: Yes, this catch=
basin
has working piping on this plan with oil/water separators. &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: If I remember
correctly on the site walk when we were discussing the construction, you're
putting in a fairly long driveway, like 1,000 feet of driveway, and then yo=
u're
putting the building in, the parking lot, but you're also going to build the
greenway at the (inaudible) time, it will be built in conjunction with this
project? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: Yes. CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 20, 2006 PAGE 31 &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: So you're putt=
ing
in, I can't remember . . . . &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Harriman: It's about 1,00=
0 feet
as it stands now. Once the D.=
E.P.
finishes their study it will continue in some direction (inaudible). &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: But you're goi=
ng to
pick up what you're showing right now? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: Yes. &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Point A to Poi=
nt B
(inaudible). It stops at your
property line right here which does not run across the State property back =
out
to &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: Yes, that's
correct. Our property line en=
ds
here, and the trail, as we propose it, ends here. I would anticipate that probably t=
he
D.O.T. being a state owned property will probably be one of the first
properties that has the riverfront greenway trail put in since it is a State
project. &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: So when you pu=
t this
in there's still no access until somebody gives us access from &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: You can access =
it
from the river. This will be a
secure site at night. &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: This will be a=
gated
property at night? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: Yes. &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Are all those l=
ittle
hash marks around the perimeter, 202 parking spaces? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: Yes, the zoning=
regs
call for one parking space for every 500 sq. ft. floor area, we are proposi=
ng
only 20 because it's a 15 employee facility. The Planning and Zoning Commission=
has
asked us to show that there is room for 202 spaces, so we've shown . . . .<=
o:p> &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: There is room f=
or
them but you're not going to put them in. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: There's room fo=
r more
. . . . &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And the draina=
ge
that you're putting in is adequate, because if the Baillie Company or whoev=
er
moves into this building doesn't stay and the next company comes in and they
decide to add those extra 90 parking spaces, then the drainage is adequate =
to
pick up those extra 90 parking spaces? CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 20, 2006 PAGE 32 &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: It's more than =
90,
but it would obviously need to have more catch basins but they cold tie into
the existing (inaudible). &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: They'd have=
to
change the septic too. The se=
ptic
was only approved for 20 people. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: Right. &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And there's en=
ough
space to put in a larger septic system? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: Yes. High infiltration rates are really
helpful on this site. &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: On the plus side
you're moving a lot of existing asphalt which will become planted grass? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: Yes, green of t=
he
site, we're producing a total, right now it's just pavement of 41%, it's on=
ly
5%, we're reducing both runoff and increasing green space and providing acc=
ess
to the public along the riverfront. &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: That is a dump=
ing
site right now, everybody goes in there and dumps and you don't know what p=
eople
are dumping along the riverside at this point. We saw that on the property and th=
at was
cleaned out by the D.E.P. 8 or 9 years ago and it's now back to being filled
again. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: The applicant i=
s (inaudible)
2,000 cubic yards of material that wasted, (inaudible) illegal dumping and =
the
proposed site includes a fence around the perimeter which would eliminate t=
hat. &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: I like the use=
of
the building, it's a major building with minor impact. It's not like they're putting in 2=
00
employees to drive in and out of this place. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Polletta: Is it going to =
be a
warehouse like Super Stop & Shop? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Brian
Davis, The Baillie Company &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Davis: It's a food distri=
bution
warehouse but we're not talking that kind of volume. It's not going to be the kind of v=
olume
like the &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: We need to dete=
rmine
if this is a significant activity or have a public hearing. &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: It doesn't loo=
k like
a significant activity. CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 20, 2006 PAGE 33 &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: But the questio=
n is
there's enough public interest to warrant a public hearing? &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: I don’t =
see it. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: They can pe=
tition
if they want a public hearing. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Harriman: We have gone be=
fore
the Planning and Zoning Commission for a public hearing and no members of t=
he
public turned out. &=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. DiBona) that Application #566 of The Bailie Company for construction of a new commercial building
Food Distribution Facility on a parcel aka drive-in movie theater located on
Frost Bridge Road, Watertown, CT Is Not A Significant Activity. Discussion: None<=
o:p> &=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY &=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. DiBona) to Approve Application #566 of The Baillie Company for construction of a new commercial buildi=
ng
Food Distribution Facility on a parcel aka drive-in movie theater located on
Frost Bridge Road, Watertown, CT with the standard conditions. Discussion: None<=
o:p> &=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY K. =
; Application
#567 of Zohra and Moosa Rafey for construction of a common driveway to Lot =
16
and Lot 20, Highmeadow Road, Watertown, CT. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a public hearing is not held, then a decision is required by August 18, 200=
6,
unless applicant grants an extension of time. &=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Polletta) to Move Application #567 of Zohra and Moosa Rafey for construction of a common driveway to =
Lot
16 and Lot 20, Highmeadow Road, Watertown, CT to Item 6C. Discussion: None<=
o:p> &=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 20, 2006 PAGE 34 6. &n=
bsp; New
Applications A. =
; Application
#568 of Watertown Golf Club for installation of a new irrigation system for=
the
entire golf course at &=
nbsp; If
a Public Hearing is not held, then a decision is required by September 22,
2006. &=
nbsp; Matthew
Sanford, Milone & MacBroome &=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: We're asking for=
a wetland
permit to upgrade the outdated irrigation system that currently exists on t=
he
site. There will be about 435
square feet of wetland impact associated with irrigation installation. Really it's linear feet but we did=
, it's
funny how we (inaudible) crossing these wetlands will occur and how we came=
up
with (inaudible). Also I want=
ed to
submit for the record is the soil report, wetlands report, that goes over a=
ll
the soils on site, I have a number of copies here, it goes over all the wet=
land
soils and I'll go over these currently right now. &=
nbsp; The
golf course is bounded to the west by Guernseytown Road, to the north by Ho=
llow
Road, to the south is Taft School, they have their fields located in this
general area here. To the eas=
t is CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 20, 2006 PAGE 35 &=
nbsp; Steele
Brook flows from the north here in this direction, southward into another I
think it's (inaudible) farm property here and across Litchfield Road and ov=
er
toward (inaudible) chicken farm.
Feeding this particular watercourse is a forested wetland environment
here, there's an existing utility, as most people may know Northeast Utilit=
ies
has power lines here, directly in the idle of the power lines is a stream t=
hat
runs down through it, also there's (inaudible) that break out along this sl=
ope
so this is all classified as a wetland soil and (inaudible) but it was a
wetland soil, and it all flows from an east to west pattern into Steele
Brook. We also have a couple =
of additional
manmade irrigation ponds on this side of the golf course. There is one here that's represent=
ed,
this is a manmade irrigation pond, it's an excavated pit in the ground that
does fill with water. On the =
west
side of Steel Brook we have 2 additional irrigation ponds. Here as you move northward we have=
2
additional irrigation ponds here.
At the very end of the property at the very (inaudible) we had an
intermittent watercourse, most of it is fed by an existing 15 inch (inaudib=
le)
that comes off of Litchfield Road, it's kind of a D.O.T. drainage I believe
that discharges. There's an
existing kind of bituminous swale that discharges around the green around h=
ole
#10 and discharges that water directly into Steel Brook but there is some
bordering wetlands along this part of the property. Those are the wetland existing
conditions on site. &=
nbsp; We
are here for an upgrade to the existing irrigation system that's on site.
&=
nbsp; The
impact will be about 435 square feet.
The way we're going to install the piping through these wetland area=
s is
essentially called a biritory flop, also known as a ditch witch. Ditch witch for a sense f easement=
has a
light system that cuts into the earth and as it cuts into the earth, kinds =
of
breaks a small ledge and a 1 inch pipe is pulled behind it. The earth is just slightly tilted =
up,
and as the machine drives over it, the pipe just pulls the person behind the
ditch witch or biritory plow just steps on the ground and just continues on=
so
it's a very limited activity, it's not going in there and excavating with an
excavator to actually install this 1 inch (inaudible) pipe.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: How deep does t=
he
pipe go in?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: (Tape #3, Side A=
ended
- may have missed some.) Inst=
alling
basically with a shove, it can be about a 2 x 2 hole, maximum hole and then=
you
can install (inaudible) an L shaped hookup or (inaudible) so essentially a 2
foot ho9le, install the sprinkler heads and then fill it back in, so that w=
ould
be the impact associated with the installation of these sprinkler heads.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 36
&=
nbsp; Let's
go over the areas that we are impacting.&n=
bsp;
The first one here we'll start at the intermittent watercourse, we w=
ill have
to cross that with the ditch witch, so we're going to have to run into the
watercourse 2 feet down, pull the line behind it to (inaudible) the crossing
and that's (inaudible). One is
crossing here and one here. W=
e consider
that a temporary disturbance because we're essentially carving up the land =
for
a half hour and walk in with the machine across it and then (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Not just walk =
behind
the machine, it's a pretty big machine, it can slice the ground and go in 2
feet. It's pulled by a tracto=
r, not
a (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: Yea, it's going =
to be
a tractor but again the tractor, it's not going to be (inaudible). This one particularly it's all gra=
vel
now, it's pretty (inaudible) so there won't be much disturbance in terms of=
(inaudible). So we're crossing in 2 places. That's your first wetland impact.<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Also a w move northward, this small
wetland here, not directly impacted but in the upland review around it we h=
ave
installation of a 1 inch line or a 4 inch line depending on if this is the =
main
line or it's a branch, I think it's probably a 4 inch line feeding all
these. There's this area here
that's about 10 feet from the wetlands also there is a line right here
westward, in the upland review area, again that would be (inaudible) ditch
witch. As we move northward a=
t this
irrigation p9ond here, we have the installation of 3 sprinkler heads within=
in
the upland review area and the installation of a 1 inch line to connect tho=
se 3
sprinkler heads. Again this i=
s fairway
all the way up to the pond edge, it's existing currently grass, that's what=
it is
now. In addition if you move =
across
the pond here, there is the installation of 3 sprinkler heads and irrigation
. That is existing grass
currently. Moving eastward
downstream, up on top we have another crossing here and this crossing actua=
lly
is going to take place (inaudible) existing culvert so that may not be the =
24
inches (inaudible) existing culvert there now and I'm not sure if there is 2
feet of fill on top of it, so it will be placed on top of the culvert.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: It doesn't hav=
e to
be 24 (inaudible), you could put it 6 inches deep if you want.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: Right, this is g=
oing
to be blown out in the winter so there won't be an issue of freezing. Continuing eastward here we have 2
sprinkler heads within the upland review area, with a 1 inch irrigation lin=
e. Further south we have another 4 in=
ch
line in the upland review area so that will be crossing over the existing
culvert (inaudible). Again ea=
stward
we have the installation of the irrigation line again on the north side of =
this
watercourse within the upland review area and there are sprinkler heads
associated with it. Moving ac=
ross
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 37
&=
nbsp; We
will have to cross Steele Brook in 2 locations. Fortunately we're utilizing areas =
that
are currently either in (inaudible) or bridges, so we're not having to go i=
nto
Steele Brook to get the irrigation lines across. The first location is here. Right here is the existing dirt ro=
ad
with (inaudible) that currently exists, the irrigation line and the (inaudi=
ble)
line which will be put in here will go on top of those culverts so it will =
be
placed in the road, will not go into the stream bed. The electrical line and the irriga=
tion
line? I'm not sure, it probab=
ly
will be about 2 or 3 feet.
&= nbsp; Mr. Polletta: Requires what?<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; Paul
Aniti, Milone & MacBroome
&= nbsp; Mr. Aniti: Your electric is underneath the pipe. It's pul= led with the (inaudible) and runs underneath the pipe so if you're maintaining = or fixing the pipe you're not going to hit the wire. Also the power line is one thing.<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: For the electri=
cal
(inaudible)?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: The electric and
conduits? None will be expose=
d,
direct burial
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Right next to t=
he (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: Exactly.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: You said the ex=
isting
pipes will remain, is the existing drain gutters plastic or steel?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: We're going to lav=
e them
in place.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: (Inaudible.)
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: Yes.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: So that's the one
crossing of Steele Brook, again it's going to be within the road itself. CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 20, 2006 PAGE 38 &=
nbsp; The
second crossing which is the important issue here, second crossing of Steele
Brook there's an existing metal bridge, actually concrete and metal bridge,
they're going to attach the pipe directly to the bridge, it will not be goi=
ng
into the stream (inaudible). =
That
will feed everything to the west side of Steele Brook. Again we have activities within the
wetlands here. The wetland was
actually within the fairway in the rough.&=
nbsp;
We will be installing new sprinkler heads in that spot, and that's a=
ll
grass currently. People play =
on it
everyday. &=
nbsp; Moving
down Steele Brook we have the installation of additional sprinkler heads al=
ong
Steele Brook within the 50 foot upland review area and finally we terminate
over here next to this pond with sprinkler heads and a 1 inch line. So that's essentially the impacts
associated with it, we feel they're temporary impacts, there's an impacts to
both the wetlands, we tried to find alternatives to installing the irrigati=
on
system, finding the best spots (inaudible), utilizing areas that we can cro=
ss
either in piped area or if it's already in the road we tried to utilize tho=
se
as much as possible. And agai=
n the
impacts we're also in the upland areas, those areas are existing (inaudible)
currently so again most of those are going to be the installation of sprink=
ler
heads and 1 inch irrigation line, so if there's any questions for either me=
or Paul,
we'd be more than happy to answer them. &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: So how did you
capsulate your impact 435 . . . . &=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: The impact was, =
we
basically we feel it's a linear impact.&nb=
sp;
Driving a machine over these area, picking up the earth slightly and
then stamping it down, so were going to (inaudible) not going to really make
sense to the Commission so I think we have a 2 to 3 feet width to the layer
impact, it's about 435 square feet of total impact at each wetland crossing=
. &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: (Inaudible) cut=
. &=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: The pipes will b=
e slid
right into the cut and then tampered right back down. &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Is this somethi=
ng the
pipe is underneath, and you're going to drop . . . . . . &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Into the groun=
d and
then they come back and they cut it right behind it. &=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: As you walk behi=
nd the
machine, you stamp it right back down, just like if you were going to insta=
ll
this irrigation line in your back yard, same thing, you can barely see where
the cut was. &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: You're using a =
giant
blade? CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 20, 2006 PAGE 39 &=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: A giant blade, a=
lmost
like a knife, it goes down, carves, pull sup the earth slightly, like this,=
so
as the pipe gets pulled then can be overlaid with the soil. &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And the piping=
is a
tube on a huge coil, the same thing with the electrical that opens it up, s=
hoves
the pipe down into the hole and then the guy walks behind and then covers it
up? &=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: Yes, and we were
assured by the irrigation people they would not need to excavate within the
wetlands, in terms of conventional excavating. We do this all the time all over t=
he
State and we will not need to use an excavator. &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: I think it's f=
airly
simple. I have a couple of
questions. Your manmade pond,=
where
is the source of the water? &=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: The source of the
water is diverted from the (inaudible) Steele Brook. &=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: And also too from =
the
runoff from &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And your total
existing coverage right now for your existing sprinkler system, is it going=
to
change, are you adding more coverage, or the exact amount of coverage? &=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: We're adding more
coverage but with more efficient and accurate irrigation heads. &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Your existing =
water
consumption is "x" amount, and your new water consumption is goin=
g to
be, you know that . . . . &=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: On a complete run
thro9ugh is just over 300,000 gallons a day and our existing diversion is j=
ust
over 400,000 gallons a day (inaudible) Steele Brook. &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: But your exist=
ing
consumpti9on though of water is how much? &=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: Probably 225,000
gallons. &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And you're goi=
ng to
move up to 300,000 gallons? &=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: On a full run, yes=
. This is running every irrigation h=
ead on
the system, which probably (inaudible). &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: I'm just think=
ing of
typically on golf courses you use chemicals pesticides, and I'm just wonder=
ing
what the extra 75,000 gallons of water running off, are we bringing more pe=
sticides
back into the wetlands? CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY REGULAR MEETING JULY 20, 2006 PAGE 40 &=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: There are mandated
buffers for all of the sprays which are clearly out of these pond areas. &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: So the sprinkl=
er
heads will not be adding water to an area that does get a pesticide and then
that pesticide will then go back down into the water? &=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: Exactly. We've chosen irrigation heads for =
this
system that have the ability to go from 360 degree rotation to as little as=
45
rotation, so for our benefit (inaudible) irrigation heads go under water th=
ey
will probably only be running at 180 degrees and they will not be watering
putting water back in the pond (inaudible) so we do have the ability to wat=
er
outside of the pond and (inaudible). &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Okay, so we're=
not
tripling or quadrupling the amount of water, we're adding 75,000 gallons on=
a
full run? &=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: Yes.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: The last sy=
stem
lasted 30 years, how long do you think this one will last?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: We're going with a=
new
style pipe, not a new style pipe but a new style pipe for the golf courses,=
the
identity probably (inaudible). The
30 year old one, they predict this one 40 to 50 years for the pipe.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: So 50 years=
from
now you're going to be back doing the same thing? A lot of pipes down there.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: Ultimately (inaudi=
ble)
essentially we could.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Jones: Does the D.E.P. ha=
ve
requirements here or regulations in any way or is it purely up to us?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Aniti: The D.E.P.? No.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: Well the only th=
ing
the D.E.P. is regulating is the (inaudible), which they already have in pla=
ce.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And I'm assumi=
ng
they're covered for going from . . . . .
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: They can go up to
400,000 gallons per day if they want to.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: (Inaudible) to=
fill
your pond. Somehow I don't ha=
ve a
problem with them taking water out of Steele Brook.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Is that the sole
source of the water?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 41
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: Yes. And knowing that inlet, looking at=
this
kind of little spot here and then it's piped into this pond here and this p=
ond
here. These ponds are support=
ed by
surface water.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: And the one=
over there?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Sanford: This is supporte=
d by
the stream, on
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: I don't see th=
is as
a significant impact.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: I don't eit=
her.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Polletta) that Application #568 of Watertown Golf Club for installation of a new irrigation system=
for
the entire golf course at 246 Guernseytown Road, Watertown, CT Is Not A
Significant Activity.
Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. DiBona) to Table Application #568 of Watertown Golf Club for installation of a new irrigation system=
for
the entire golf course at 246 Guernseytown Road, Watertown, CT.
Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
B. =
; Application
#569 of Rachel Saucier for construction of a deck at 333 Falls Avenue,
&=
nbsp; If
a Public Hearing is not held, then a decision is required by September 22,
2006.
&=
nbsp; Todd
Brewer Representing Rachel Saucier
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Brewer: We are here tonig=
ht
because we are within 50 feet of a wetland that is already pre-existing and
we're going to be building a 12 x 13 (inaudible) on top of the deck and we'=
re
also going to be enclosing that area (inaudible) deck itself. It will be about 260 square feet
(inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Now the sun roo=
m can
be supported by the existing deck without any additional excavation?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 42
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Brewer: If there is any
excavation, it would be very minimal, it would be under a cubic foot, so the
way we laid it out now, and our engineer looked at it, we don't, it doesn't
require any (inaudible) support at this time.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: What type of a =
sun
room is this, like a screened in (inaudible)? Just like a framework?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Brewer: Basically they're=
made
out of 3-5/8 inch foam and they're aluminum extrusion, kind of like an erec=
tor
kit you put up.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Is it a canvass=
roof
or . . . .
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Brewer: No, the roof itse=
lf is
4 inches thick, it's a shed roof, so it will come off the existing roof lin=
e at
the house that's there now. W=
e may
have to do some modification as far as the soffets, but very minimal.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: That 4 inch thi=
ck is
what, foam?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Brewer: Yes.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: When was this =
deck
built?
&=
nbsp; Rachel
Saucier, 333 Falls Avenue,
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Saucier: 6 years ago.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And this is wi=
thin
26 feet of the edge of Turkey Brook?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Yes.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: This is a narr=
ow
lot, right?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Brewer: Yea, the lot is
pre-existing, non-conforming.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: (Inaudible?)
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I think what happe=
ned,
they submitted for a zoning permit for a deck and after I went to the prope=
rty
I noticed it was too close to Turkey Brook and I told them they needed a
wetland permit for that. A we=
tland
permit was never given for that deck, now recently they submitted another z=
oning
application for a sun room over the existing deck, and I told them since th=
ey
didn't have a permit for the deck they cannot build it.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Sturgis: We have to at le=
ast
have a permit for the deck.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 43
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: No, you can approv=
e the
deck and the sun room will be over the existing deck.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: The deck was bu=
ilt
without a building permit or a wetland permit?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Saucier: I paid for . . .=
.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: So in other wor=
ds it
was built this deck, without a building permit and without coming before
wetlands?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Yes, they submitte=
d an
application and they paid their application fee for a zoning permit. After an inspection of the property
because of Turkey Brook we told the applicant that we cannot issue the perm=
it
until they go before the Wetlands Commission for a permit because they were
within a 50 foot setback area.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: How can they bu=
ild a
deck without going before the wetlands?
&= nbsp; Mr. Rafey: They just did it.<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Sturgis: So our issue is =
not
with the sun room it's with the fact they didn't get a permit for the deck.=
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Once the Commission
approves the deck, they I can issue a zoning permit for the sun room.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: This was al=
l last
year, this wasn't 6 years ago, this was a year ago.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Saucier: The deck wasn't =
up a
year ago. The deck went up 6 =
years
ago. 6 years ago that deck wa=
s up.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Well it say=
s here
application for a zoning permit was on April . . . . .
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Saucier: I've been paying=
taxes
for that deck . . . .
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: No, the applicatio=
n for
the deck was submitted to the Planning and Zoning Office on April 11, 2005.=
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Saucier: The deck was the=
re 6
years.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: And we didn't issu=
e a zoning
permit for the deck because it was within a regulated area.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 44
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: So was there a
building permit for the deck?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: No. If there is no zoning permit, ther=
e is
no building permit.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: So right now t=
he
deck sits on how many piers?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I don’t know=
.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Saucier: Approximately th=
ere is
. . . . you want to know how the deck is, how it's built? 7 piers.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And the size o=
f the
deck is how big?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Brewer: 13 x 12. plus an
extension that goes on the side of the house, about 4 feet wide by about 20
feet long.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Sturgis: We have to decid=
e if
we're going to give them a permit for the deck because (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: The drawing sh=
ows
that the house is 26 feet away from Turkey Brook, and the back yard, I'm
assuming Turkey Brook runs across the back yard too.
&=
nbsp; Many
people talking at once (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: These are these
little lots and there's not much we can do. It's not like they put in a founda=
tion,
they excavated for a foundation, they put piers in the ground in an existing
probably lawn, correct?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I agree with you, =
the
back yard is already a lawn.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: I think at this
point if they take out the application for the actual deck.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: If they get a perm=
it
from this Commission for the deck, I can issue a permit for the deck and the
sun room.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: So we give the=
m a
permit for the deck, and as long as there's no excavati9on, but in the futu=
re
you'll get approved before you do anything.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Saucier: I understand
that. I bought the house, I'v=
e been
flooded out about 17 times.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: So you knew th=
ere
was a wetlands?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 45
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Saucier: I couldn't live =
in my
yard either. We did get=
fish
in our cellar when we got flooded.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: We can't decide
tonight anyway.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: But has she pa=
id the
fee for the application?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Yes.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And so now we =
can
just give her a yes, but we just can't do it tonight?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Just table it unti=
l next
month.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. DiBona) to Table Application #569 of Rachel Saucier for construction of a deck at 333 Falls Avenue, =
Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
C. =
; Application
#567 of Zohra and Moosa Rafey for construction of a common driveway to Lot =
16
and
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a public hearing is not held, then a decision is required by August 18, 200=
6,
unless applicant grants an extension of time.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: We just got a p=
ackage
here from Chuck, but we have to schedule a public hearing so that's basical=
ly
all we need to do tonight.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Moosa
Rafey,
Mr. Rafey: I just want to give you a presentat= ion tonight because last meeting I just gave some information about this application. The only thing I= want to you to understand that the driveway that I'm proposing is within the 50 = foot upland review area, and there is no direct impact involved with this application and I expect that the Commission will determine tonight whether that is a significant activity or not.&nbs= p; You received application tonight (inaudible) and they want a public hearing. They didn't submit t= he petition within the 14 days, which is the statutory requirement, but I have= no objection, if you want to hold the public hearing, that's fine, but the com= mission should determine that this is not a significant activity and then I will gi= ve an extension to the public hearing.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 46
Mr. Undercuffler: One of the things in Chuck's analys= is, he made the comment abut should the driveway be moved further south?
Mr. Rafey: Do you want me to answer that now, = or during the public hearing. Th= e only reason it's there is because I want to keep it an equal distance from both properties on both sides, and also on the south side there are some trees a= nd vegetation, (inaudible). If I= move it down south more towards the (inaudible) property I have to cut all the vegetation that is there. I want to preserve as much trees and vegetation a= s is there. Also Mr. Berger recomm= ended a narrower driveway and I have no objection to that. I can reduce it to 16 feet.
&= nbsp; Mr. Zawadzki: Is it a paved or gravel driveway?
= ; Mr. Rafey: I don't know at th= is time, I do want to have that option that if I need to pave it, I'll pave it= , I just want to keep it the way it is proposed, a paved driveway.
= ; Mr. Duplissie: As far as lot requirements go, we don't have a right to say one way or the other, I mean = they have a right to pave it, don't they? It's an approved building lot.
= ; Ms. Sturgis: I don't think un= der normal circumstances this would be considered a significant activity, but I think we have to have a public hearing because of the petition.
= ; Mr. Rafey: No, but your public hearing should be base= d on the petition, not on a significant activity.
= ; Ms. Sturgis: I haven't seen u= nder normal circumstances we would consider this a significant activity, it's a driveway.
= ; Mr. Undercuffler: Yea, but st= ill, we have to vote on whether it is.
=
; Mr.
Rafey: On the map, that i=
s the
only frontage that this lot has, there is no other alternative. This area is the
= ; Mr. Duplissie: I agree this i= s not a significant activity, but we do have a petition in front of us.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 47
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr. =
Duplissie,
sec. Mr. Polletta) that Application #567
of Zohra and Moosa Rafey for construction of a common driveway to Lot 16 and
Lot 20, Highmeadow Road, Watertown, CT Is Not A Significant Activity.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; (Tape
#3, Side B ended - may have missed some.)
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Many
people talking at once regarding when this public hearing will be held.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: As you may know there =
is a
lot of controversy surrounding this application given that Moosa is an empl=
oyee
of the Town. I think we should
schedule it as we would schedule any other public hearing, if we do it Augu=
st
10th, that's fine, I don’t think we should do it before August 10th.<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> If we're going to do something
different, we should do it afterwards so there is no appearance of any
preferential treatment.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Duplissie: So either on t=
he
10th or after, but not before?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Berger: I would expect a =
number
of residents to be here. It's=
not
going to be a (inaudible) public hearing.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Polletta: I would say leave it on the 10th.<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Many
people talking at once (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Ms.
Sturgis, sec. Mr. Undercuffler) to Schedule a Public Hearing for Applicatio=
n #567 of Zohra and Moosa Rafey for constru=
ction
of a common driveway to Lot 16 and
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Poletta) to Table Application #567 of Zohra and Moosa Rafey for construction of a common driveway to =
Lot
16 and Lot 20, Highmeadow Road, Watertown, CT to Item 7D.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 48
7. =
Old
Business
&nbs=
p; None
8. =
New
Business
&=
nbsp; A. Referral
from Middlebury Conservation Commission concerning Country Line Nissan wetl=
and
application for an addition to an existing building, Straits Turnpike,
Middlebury, CT.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: We got this bec=
ause
it's within 500 feet of the
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: T=
hey
are not the applicant, they are the petitioner.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: W=
e need
to look at this a little more carefully.&n=
bsp;
I believe that there are activities within the 50 foot setback area =
of
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: D=
id
they come in front of P & Z?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I think Planning =
and
Zoning got a similar referral.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: The normal thin=
g is
when they're within 500 feet.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: But there are
activities proposed that are within your regulated area.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: If that is the cas=
e then
they have to submit an application to this Commission.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: I=
think
there are 2 steps here.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: How do we v=
erify
this?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: We will look at th=
e plan
that they've submitted and then we'll determine who to contact if they need=
an application.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: So for now we s=
hould
just table this.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Well direct us to
determine if a permit is needed and tell the applicant that if a permit is
needed, and then . . . .
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Then anyway we can
schedule a public hearing with the petition.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 49
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Well this came=
in
front of us a couple of months ago with a predevelopment plan, and when that
was presented to us we determined that there was significant activity qt th=
at
time because they were extending the parking lot actually into the wetlands=
at
that point.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Not into the wetl=
ands,
but I think within the 50 foot buffer area. Maybe you should let the petitione=
r shed
more light on it. He may be a=
ble to
help us.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: It's not fair beca=
use
the applicant is not here for the petitioner to give a presentation. We have to wait. The applicant has the right to be =
here
to present their application and then you can present your presentation.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Atty.
Clifford: Right, that's w=
hat I
was going to say. That I don'=
t want
to make any representation about this in the application but we're submitti=
ng
the petition only to address the procedural situation such that you have a
petition when you're considering this matter before you.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: The best way to do=
it,
at this time you don't have to schedule a public hearing, let me do some
investigation and look at the plans to see if there are any regulated
activities within the Town of Watertown, I will contact the applicant and I=
'll
ask him to submit an application before this Commission and at that time you
already have the petition and you can schedule a public hearing. The Commission accepted your petit=
ion,
but we aren't going to schedule it now because I want to see if we need a
permit from this Commission they should submit a formal application, and th=
en
if that's the case, you don’t' have to pay the fee, because if we hav=
e an
applicant they will pay the fee for the legal notice.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Atty.
Clifford: I understand, we
don't mind paying the fee if we have to, (inaudible) if we don't.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: If there's =
no
application, then there will be no hearing.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I have to check th=
at
legally to see if we can do that or not.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Well there's
nothing in front of us.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: But this is in fro=
nt of you
for the review. I'll check th=
at to
see if legally we can do that.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: Y=
ea,
but we have nothing to review, we don't have a set of documents, we don't h=
ave
wetlands, we don't see anything.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I have a set of pl=
ans
that I will check.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 50
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: H=
ave
you submitted a petition to Middlebury?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Atty.
Clifford: Yes, I can tell=
you
that the activities proposed 2191 Straits Turnpike are the subject to on-go=
ing wetland
proceedings in Middlebury.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: And
you petitioned the same way you did us?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: N=
o,
because there is wetlands activities in Middlebury so they didn't have to
petition, they're petitioning us.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: No, they hold a pu=
blic
hearing in Middlbury by the Wetland commissions.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Poletta) to Table Application #567 of Zohra and Moosa Rafey for construction of a common driveway to =
Lot
16 and Lot 20, Highmeadow Road, Watertown, CT to Item 7D.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
9. =
Communications
and Bills
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Poletta) to Accept and Filed Communications and Bills as
presented.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; Mr. Undercuffler: One of the points they raised is t=
hat
any development within a watershed area has to be reported to the State now,
effective October?
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: Any development?
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: I think that's what I read.
&=
nbsp; Mr. Rafey: All properties within a watershed =
. . .
. .
&nbs= p; Mr. Berger: Drinking water supply watersheds.<= o:p>
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 51
&=
nbsp; Mr. Undercuffler: Yes.
&=
nbsp; Mr. Berger: And there are different levels of
watersheds around drinking water, reservoirs.
&=
nbsp; Mr. Undercuffler: Are we clear on what that covers?<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Are we ready to follow that?
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: Let me look into that.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: I think what you're referring to i=
s on
Page 6, Publication, other important environmental legislation, Public Act
06-53, which we need to get a copy of to get familiar with.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: Yea. Well this would be like the develo=
pment
up off
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: I think we sent it to the City of =
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: E approved that application, didn'=
t we?
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: Yes.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: According to this in t=
he
future we would have to notify the State.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: It's not back in front of P & =
Z yet,
so P A& Z may have to do some notification when it comes before them.
&=
nbsp; Mr. Undercuffler: We've got a couple of o shows on a
regular basis. Can we (inaudi=
ble)
that we want to remove them.
&=
nbsp; Mr. Zawadzki: I already talked to Moosa about tha=
t and
I'm going to draft a letter to the Town Council to replace them.
10. Repor=
ts
from Officers and Committees
11. Repor=
ts
from Staff
Mr. Rafey: = Recently you're very busy and IR= 17;m trying to schedule a public hearing for our regulations and every time I lo= ok at the agenda it's really long. Do you want to hold a special meeting for the public hearing for the regulations?<= o:p>
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 20, 2006
PAGE 52
A
discussion ensued about the length of the meetings. A special meeting will be schedule=
d.
12. &n=
bsp; Public
Participation
None
13. Adjou=
rnment
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr. =
Duplissie,
sec. Ms. Sturgis) to Adjourn the Regular Meeting at 10:38 p.m.
&nbs= p; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&nbs=
p; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&nbs=
p; Regular
Meeting Adjourned at 10:38 p.m.
Respect=
fully
submitted,
Ronald =
Jones,
Secretary
Conserv=
ation
Commission/
Inland
Wetlands Agency
&nbs=
p; _________________=
_________________