MINUTES<= o:p>
CONSERVA=
TION
COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR
MEETING
THURSDAY,
AUGUST 12, 2004 - 7:30 PM
PRESENT: =
; &n=
bsp; =
; Bernard
Beauchamp
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Ron
Jones, Secretary
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Joseph
Polletta
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Edwin
Undercuffler, Vice Chairman
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; James
Zawadzki, Chairman
ABSENT: =
; &n=
bsp; =
; =
Glen
Duplissie
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Charles
Thermer
ALTERNATES PRESENT: =
; Martha
Sturgis
ALTERNATES ABSENT: =
; Susan
Atwood
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Peter
Peluso
OTHERS PRESENT: =
; &n=
bsp; Chuck
Berger, Town Engineer
=
; &n=
bsp; =
; &n=
bsp; =
; Moosa Rafey, Assistant
Zoning Enforcement Officer
1. =
Call
Meeting To Order
Mr.
Zawadzki, Chairman, called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:34 p.m.
2. &nb=
sp; Roll
Call
Mr.
Jones, Secretary, executed the Roll Call.
Mr.
Zawadzki, Chairman, asked Ms. Sturgis to sit for Mr. Thermer, in his absenc=
e.
3. =
Public
Participation
None
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 2
4. =
Action
on Minutes
&=
nbsp; A. Continuation
of Public Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #415, Cathie Caton &=
nbsp; B. =
Continuation
of Public Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #421, YMCA &nbs=
p; C. Continuation
of Public Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #422, Mary Ann Cathcart &=
nbsp; D. Public
Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #423, Mark Lovely &=
nbsp; E. =
Public
Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #424, Domenic DiNunzio &=
nbsp; F. =
Public
Hearing, May 10, 2001, App. #425, New Millennium Development, Inc. &nbs=
p; G. Regular
Meeting, May 10, 2001 &=
nbsp; H. Continuation
of Public Hearing, July 12, 2001, App. #423, Mark Lovely &=
nbsp; I. &=
nbsp; Continuation
of Public Hearing, July 12 2001, App. #424, Domenic DiNunzio &=
nbsp; J. &=
nbsp; Continuation
of Public Hearing, July 12, 2001, App. #425, New Millennium Development, In=
c. K. Public
Hearing July 12, 2001, App. #428, Echo L. =
Regular
Meeting, July 12, 2001 M. Public
Hearing, May 13, 2004, App. #495, Patrick Graziano &=
nbsp; N. Regular
Meeting, May 13, 2004 &=
nbsp; O. Continuation
of Pubic Hearing, June 10,2 004, App. #495, Patrick Graziano &=
nbsp; P. =
Regular
Meeting, June 10, 2004 &=
nbsp; Q. Regular
Meeting, July 15, 2004 &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: There is a typo. The two minutes that you have is fo=
r May
13, 2004. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Not May 26th? &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Yes, Item M and N. &=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Polletta, sec. Mr. Beauchamp) to Approve Items 4M and 4N and Table Items #4A
through 4L and 4O through 4Q. &=
nbsp; Discussion: None<=
o:p> &=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY REGULAR MEETING AUGUST 12, 2004 PAGE 3 5. =
Pending
Applications &=
nbsp; A. Application
#502 of David Leo, 1011 Middlebury Road, Watertown, CT to fill and grade a
regulated area at 1011 Middlebury Road, Watertown, CT. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a Public Hearing is not held, then a decision is required by August 13, 200=
4. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; David Leo, Mr. Leo: I’m seeking a =
permit
to fill in the area behind my house, which is in the buffer. I dropped off some paperwork to Mo=
osa. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I gave a copy to the Commission me=
mbers
tonight. If you look at the s=
econd
page there is a drawing of the property to the property line in the back and
the location of the house corner.
This is the area that Mr. Leo wants to fill. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Okay, now it’s my
understanding you’ve, are you in agreement with this 3:1 slope? &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leo:<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Yes. &=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: At this time I
understand that the fill will not go beyond where you are right now. You’re going to grade it bac=
k to a
3:1 slope, correct? &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Leo: That’s the exi=
sting
fill that I have there, but in that graph there it’s the newer area t=
hat
I want to work on also. &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: If you remember, there was a yello=
w rope
on the property that marked the property line. I think Mr. Leo wants to go from th=
e back
of the house all the way to the property line. The slope starts from the property=
line
goes up 3:1 and then it would be a flat back yard behind the house. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta. I don’t
understand. In other words
you’re going into your in-law’s property, you would be filling =
into
their property in one area? &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leo: =
In one area, not the full corner, n=
o. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I think it’s a part of the
driveway that you already did. &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leo:<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Yea, I’m already in there, y=
es,
and that’s the one that you want me to slope so when I (inaudible).
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 4
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Some of these materials are on Mr.
Smith’s property.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Sturgis: This is the whole back=
, we
talked about the whole back of the house there?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Leo: I’m not counting the woods, I
guess that would be Phase II eventually.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms. Sturgis: Right, but I mean that open proper=
ty.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leo:<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Yes, that whole (inaudible) lower =
level,
and then I’m going to clean up where I have that existing (inaudible)
already.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: You’re showing t=
his
where the slope comes down. It
comes down and then all of a sudden there’s a drop there, a foot or t=
wo.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leo:<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> That’s what it will end up
probably at the end, right on the edge of the property line.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: I thought we had talked
about that that probably wasn’t a good idea because that would tend to
wash away, I mean without anything to hold that. What’s to hold that?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Leo: I’m not sure, =
I mean
I have an existing slope there now and I don’t understand, because
whatever was at the top always runs down anyway. (Inaudible) break away . . . . .
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Why wouldn’t it =
just
slope right down to the ground level rather than coming down and then dropp=
ing
down a foot or so?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Leo: I didn’t give that much thou=
ght,
but I guess I can do that. Ri=
ght
now I’m starting my slope, I believe it’s 10 feet on that hard =
path
from my property line and that’s where it’s going to slope. I’d have to go about 12 feet=
to
bring that right to the ground. From
the property line in, it would be a 3:1.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Undercuffler: I’m t= alking about this.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leo:<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> The drop off?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Undercuffler: Yea.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 5
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: It may be just a question of t= he sketch here because what Ed is talking about is this 3:1 slope sketch shows like an arc, a curved slope and it doesn’t go all the way to what wou= ld be the ground level; in the sketch you’ve got your little side view h= ere, and I think that’s the question.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Leo: I do remember; I kno=
w what
it looks like. Well like I sa=
id I
can back it up and instead of starting at 10 feet with the slope coming dow=
n, I
can go 12 feet, (inaudible) with the ground.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: Was that (inaudible) rounded o= ff?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Leo: Yea, well actually .=
. . .
. it would be a high (inaudible) come down to appoint like that. Now I’m just going to run it=
right
into the ground, wherever it ended.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Yea, well this sketch =
may be
a little misleading, it shows like a little drop-off. Like it comes down to about here a=
nd
then it goes straight down.
That’s the way it shows.
I think that’s what Ed’s, and yea, if that’s the w=
ay
you actually intended to do it, well that doesn’t seem to be very
practical.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Just to clarify, if that is an 8 f=
oot
depth of fill, and slope it at a 3:1 slope, your top width, you’re not
going to have 46 feet. You=
217;re
going to come back 24 feet from the edge of the property line before you re=
ach
a level back yard.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leo:<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Actually I think 36 feet and
that’s when I’m going to start to slope, that last 10 feet.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: This is not going to be as dramati=
c as
what’s shown in this sketch.
He’s going to have less level land and he’s going to keep
the 3:1 right down to the property line.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Leo: Yea, cause you
didn’t want me to go beyond the property line.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: Yea, but if you=
drop
8 feet, in a distance of 10 feet, that’s not a 3:1 slope, that’s
what Chuck is saying. If
you’re going to come out 36 feet and then start your grade, and
you’ve got 8 feet to slope down . . . . .
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: That won’t get you a 3:1.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 6
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Where does the 36 come form? I don’t see 36 on here at al=
l.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leo:<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> No it’s 46. I went the whole 46 right to the e=
nd, at
the bottom of the slope.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: We need to study when to start it =
at the
36 foot mark, which would be about here, and then start to slope. So what Chuck is saying is true, 3=
6 foot
mark and a 46 foot length leaves you 10 feet to drop 8 feet. That’ s a little more than a=
1:1,
like a 1.2.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leo:<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Well I kind of estimated, the exis=
ting
slope we have there now, I believe where you slipped that we were coming up=
it,
that’s not a 3:1 right there?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: No, see the 3:1 is whe=
re
you, drop 1 foot every 3 feet. If
this table is 3 feet front to back, and you start out here, you’re out
here at that point there you’d be down 1 foot. You’ve gone 3 feet this way,=
down
1 foot that way, that’s a 3:1 slope.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: To make it easier,=
from
the top of the slope to the bottom of the slope would be 24 feet, from the
highest to the lowest will be 24 feet, and if you have 8 feet of fill, that
gives you a 3:1 slope. From t=
he top
to the bottom will be 24 feet, not 10 feet.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leo:<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> So I’m only going to gain ab=
out .
. . . .
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Whatever you gain.
&= nbsp; = ; Mr. Zawadzki: We’re only going to gain 22 feet. If you subtract 24 from 46 you get 22 so you have to start 22 feet out, start your slope there to get a 3:1. Now= at some point we talked about 2:1. that would give you a more level yard. A 2:1 slope, well you’d star= t 16 feet from the end.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: But that will be steeper.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: It’s steeper, bu=
t I
think Chuck said 2:1 is acceptable.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: A 2:1 is the minimum allowed in the
subdivision standards. In 8 f=
oot
high, that would be acceptable. As
a back yard, a 2:1 you can’t mow a 2:1 slope. A 3:1 is uncomfortable mowing, I
don’t think you’d want to do it on a riding mower, just to give=
you
some perspective. You donR=
17;t
mow a 2:1.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 7
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: With a 2:1 you will end up with so=
me
back yard so that way you will have more room next to the driveway, otherwi=
se
you end up with almost nothing. So
it is acceptable in our regulations.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: You will get an additional 8 feet =
of
level before you have to start sloping if you go to the 2:1. It becomes more difficult to stabi=
lize
initially and you have to do more active seeding, haying, monitoring it to =
make
sure we don’t have any erosion into the wetlands, whereas a 3:1 you
wouldn’t have to pay such close attention to it probably.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well the differ=
ence
is 22 feet versus 30, you gain an extra 8 feet of level yard before you sta=
rt
your slope. So with that in m=
ind,
are you still willing to do a 3:1 or would you rather go with a 2:1?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leo:<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> 2:1.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Jones: I take it that gives you 32 feet t=
hen is
that right? 16 feet of the sl=
ope
and 32 feet from your house.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: 30.
46 minus 16.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: Not from the house, from the flat =
area.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Okay with that in mind=
, is
there anything else you’d like to add?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leo:<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> When I start the other phase, if
everything goes well with this, I don’t have to apply for another
permit. I can just go over it=
. Moosa, I did tell them when they w=
ere
there what I would like to do in the near future also.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Undercuffler: I thought t=
hat
was going to be documented in the application what you wanted to do.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leo:<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> In a full application tonight?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Undercuffler: Yea. (Inaudible) we had discussed at th=
e site
walk that whatever you wanted to do, put it down on paper so we would know =
what
we were approving.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: And this is what y=
ou are
asking.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 8
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leo:<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Yea, that’s what I’m a=
sking
for today. I thought we had t=
o do
it in sections.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: If you want to do =
it in
sections, I think you have to come back to the Commission again.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Jones: Does that mean, then, that he̵=
7;d
have a new fee for a new application?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Yes.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Jones: Does that matter to you sir?
&= nbsp; = ; Mr. Leo: Well it’s bett= er if I could do it all in one shot.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Jones: I would think you’d want to =
do it
all at once.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Leo: It’s pretty mu=
ch
basically the same thing, the same amount of feet in the other direction. <=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> That’s kind of the halfway po=
int.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Can he submit a new pl=
an
with the revision or he has to come to the next meeting?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: You have to make a decision tonigh=
t on
this application. You make yo=
ur
decision based on the information that you have. If the Commission wants you can wa=
ive
the fee for the next application if Mr. Leo wants to come back for Phase II=
.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Polletta: If I was in his shoes, maybe I= would withdraw the application and just collect it so you end and it’s over= and can he get an extension or no?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: No, we have to =
decide
based on what we have in front of us and then go from there and then
(inaudible).
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I think go with this section and t=
hen
when you’re ready for the other one.=
Anyway you aren’t doing all of them at the same time.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Sturgis: How much is the fee?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: It’s $155.00.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 9
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Sturgis: Can we waive that? (Inaudible)?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: If you want.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: We’ll have to discuss that a=
t the
future meeting. The next thin=
g to
decide is if this is a significant activity or not. Any thoughts on that?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: I don’t think it is. I don’t think we need a publ=
ic
hearing on this.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Beauchamp: No.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Sturgis: No.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: No.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Jones: No.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; MOTION: (Mr. Polletta, sec. Mr. Jones) that Application #502 of David Leo, 1011 Middlebu= ry Road, Watertown, CT to fill and grade a regulated area at 1011 Middlebury R= oad, Watertown, CT is Not A Significant Activity.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Discussion: =
; None
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
Mr. Zawadzki:
Mr. Undercuffler: I’d say we ought to go with =
this
and then probably waive the fee in the future.
Mr. Zawadzki:
Ms. Sturgis: Just make sure he stipulates 2:1, =
so we
have the record.
Mr. Zawadzki:
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 10
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; MOTION: (Ms. Sturgis, sec. Mr. Beauchamp) to Approve Application #502 of David Leo, 1011 Middlebury Road, Watertown, CT to fill and grade a regulated area at 1011 Middlebury Road, Watertown, CT with the standard conditions and a 2:1 slope= as discussed.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Discussion: =
; None
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; Mr. Zawadzki: Phase II would have to be a separa=
te
application.
B. Application
#503 of William Traver,
If a Public Hearing is=
not
held, then a decision is required by September 17, 2004.
William Traver,
Mr. Traver: You guys walked throug=
h it
last week, a replacement of the existing swimming pool. We’re not disturbing anythin=
g, and
you didn’t see any problem with it.
Mr. Undercuffler: No, there’s be=
en a
pool there for many years, nothing really was disturbed, nothing new was
disturbed.
Mr. Zawadzki: You have no intentio=
n of
disturbing the terrain?
Mr. Traver: No.
Mr. Zawadzki: What is the pool (in=
audible)? You’ve got cinder block or
gravel? What’s undernea=
th the
pool right now?
Mr. Traver: It’s an above =
ground
pool.
Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, but usually the=
y put
it on a bed of gravel or crushed stone or . . . . .
Mr. Traver: I have dust sand and=
then
they put foam down.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 11
Mr. Zawadzki: I don’t think
it’s a significant activity.
Does anybody think it is?
MOTION:<=
span
style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'> (Mr. =
Jones,
sec. Mr. Beauchamp) that Application #503 of William Traver, 291 Buckingham
Street, Oakville, CT for an existing above ground pool located within a
regulated area at 291 Buckingham Street, Oakville, CT. is Not A Significant
Activity.
Discussi= on: None<= o:p>
MOTION P=
ASSED
UNANIMOUSLY
Mr. Zawadzki: Any further
discussion? We’re not
required to decide this tonight, but I don’t see any reason why we
shouldn’t.
Mr. Polletta: I wasn’t at the
field trip, but I went by there and basically there was an existing situati=
on
and I didn’t see any problem at all, so I don’t see why we shou=
ld
keep it on the Agenda. Everyo=
ne
agrees there is no problem there.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; MOTION: (Mr. Polletta, sec. Mr. Beauchamp) to Approve Application #503 of William Traver, 291 Buckingham Street, Oakville, CT for an existing above ground pool locat= ed within a regulated area at 291 Buckingham Street, Oakville, CT with the standard conditions.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Discussion: = ; None
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
6. &nb=
sp; New
Applications
A.&n=
bsp; =
;
Application #504 of Gerald Roraback for constructio=
n of
a dock at
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; If
a Public Hearing is not held, then a decision is required by October 15, 20=
04.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Gary Roraback,
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Roraback: I submitted dra= wings on the as built and on the property. I met with Mr. Rafey at the property and discussed the plan to build= a dock if it’s approved.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 12
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Has everybody had a ch=
ance
to look at this?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: In your packet there is a drawing =
of the
dock. Mr. Roraback has fronta=
ge on
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: We can’t make a decision ton=
ight on
this anyway, but do you think it would be a good idea to take a site walk a=
nd
take a look at it?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Jones: Yes.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Beauchamp: Yes.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Yes.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Do we need a Motion for that?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: You can just say a=
t the
discretion of the Chairman, and we can talk about it (inaudible). Do you want to go on August 18
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: The 28th or the 18=
th?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Undercuffler: The 28=
th
was the Saturday.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: You can go on Satu=
rday,
but it shouldn’t be the same week as your meeting. You can go on the 21st.=
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Do you have a preference, cause we=
want
you to be there. Either the 2=
1st
of August or the 28th?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Roraback: I don’t h=
ave my
schedule, but I’ll make it to either one. I’ll be there.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Beauchamp: I want it on t=
he 21st,
I can’t make it the 28th.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler:
I can’t make it the 21<=
sup>st.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 13
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Jones: I can make it either day.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: You can go individually if you wan=
t.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Sturgis: I’m not sure, but I can do i=
t on
an individual day during the day.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: We will talk about=
it.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: All right let’s schedule it =
for
Saturday, August 21st. Whoever
can’t be there will pick it up at their convenience. You’ll be sent a letter to r=
emind
you of the site walk. It will
probably be at 9:30 a.m.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION: (Mr.
Beauchamp, sec. Mr. Jones) to Table and Schedule a Field Trip for Applicati=
on
#504 of Gerald Roraback for construction of a dock at
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; B. =
Application
#505 of Guernseytown Farms, LLC for Construction of 10-lot Phase III
Guernseytown Farms Estates Subdivision, Guernseytown Road, Watertown, Ct.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a Public Hearing is not held, then a decision is required by October 15, 20=
04.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Jeremy Oskandy, Kratzert & Jon=
es
associates
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Oskandy: My intent for the evening was to j=
ust
quickly give you an overview of our presentation of the project. We can schedule a field walk and a
public hearing and we can go more in depth with the presentation at the pub=
lic
hearing stage.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Here’s
the overall map of Route 63,
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 14
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Now
we’re proposing roughly 145 foot long, 45 foot wide, 2 foot deep pond=
to
achieve our zero along lot #65 up in this corner here. As far as the wetlands disturbance=
goes,
for the most part we’re not really infringing on the buffer at all.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: Now do those lo=
ts go
back into the wetlands? Do th=
ey
extend back in or do they stop short of the wetlands?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Oskandy: Actually some of=
them,
actually all of them except for these 2 in the front actually do extend back
into the wetlands. The constr=
uction
as we proposed it does not.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: What I was gett=
ing at
is that each individual owner will own a section that is wetlands, unless
it’s deeded as open space or something like that, correct?
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Oskandy: That would be correct. Actually all of the = open space for Phase I is here and Phase II is here, and Phase III is actually r= ight below this, so we have all our open space for all three phases consisted in this upper portion right here, up above the wetlands, which is right next to the Watertown Fire District property. So then other than the remaining wetlands that are down here as part= of the lot would remain part of the individual lots.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Polletta: Are all of thes=
e lots
sloping towards the wetlands? Are
you proposing curtain drains?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Oskandy: There really
isn’t any general direction where all the lots flow to. For the most part it does flow tow=
ards
the wetlands, it’s actually very, very flat in this area here. We are proposing curtain drains ar=
ound
all the upgrading sections of the septic systems.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: So what are you doing with the
foundation and gutter drains? Where
are they going to lead to?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Oskandy: Well the footing
drains would be to a sump pump and they would outlet on various parts on the
lots.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: You said sump pumps?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 15
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Oskandy: I would assume so, yes. There’s not enough slope to =
just .
. . . .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: Where will they really end up afte=
r the
house is completed?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Oskandy: It would depend on which lot you w=
ere
talking about.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: I’m talking about all the lo=
ts on
that road. They’re all =
sloped
towards the wetlands, yes or no?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Oskandy: Yes they do. Each lot the footing drain outlet is
aimed towards the back so it will flow towards the wetlands.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well so that’s what we’=
;ll be
getting into at a later date.
Anyone else?
&=
nbsp; =
; Ms.
Sturgis: Yea, he showed u=
s the
first parcel and the second parcel, but I didn’t get the outline of t=
he
third parcel that you were giving us.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Oskandy: For open space?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Ms.
Sturgis: Yes.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Oskandy: The purple line =
here,
in between these two purple lines, that’s the second phase. It starts at the point right there,
comes across to the purple line, follows down the purple line and around to
this point right here, and it comes to a point here, and back up there.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: I guess if there is no further
discussion, I think it’s safe to say that we need a site walk.
&= nbsp; = ; Mr. Polletta: The same date?<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Undercuffler: I can’=
;t
make that date.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Okay, let’s schedule it for =
the 21st
as well. Chuck, there was some
question as to whether this was a completed application. Did you get everything you were lo=
oking
for in that regard, because I know you had a recommendation to deny this at
this point if you didn’t have everything that you needed. Moosa said a bunch of stuff came in
today.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Late yesterday afternoon we receive
about 3 inches of information. That
want part of the original application (inaudible).
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 16
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: So how do you f=
eel
now?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Berger: I’ve got 3 =
inches
of information (inaudible) since yesterday afternoon. I’ve got to spend some time =
going
through that.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: Was that multip=
le
copies?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: No, just one copy.=
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: So you’ll have to screen
that. I guess we can decide n=
ext
time whether it’s a complete application or not.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Polletta: If he hasn̵= 7;t reviewed this, when we go on this field trip, if we have any questions at t= hat time, do you think it’s fair to go over there and walk around and the= n if we have questions, the engineer probably won’t be ready to have a fie= ld trip that day. What do you th= ink?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: When did you schedule the field tr=
ip
for?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: The 21st.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: The next meeting w=
ill be
on September 9th.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, we normally don’t requi=
re to
have everything all reviewed by the time of the site walk. That’s just the public hearin=
g and
the subsequent discussions.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: You can do your si=
te
walk and then at the next meeting you can schedule the public hearing for
October. Hopefully by that ti=
me Mr.
Berger has time to review these.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: Cause really the
purpose of the site walk is to get the lay of the land and see where things=
are
going and what the topography is an that sort of thing so we can get an ide=
a of
(inaudible).
&= nbsp; = ; Mr. Polletta: Yea, but we don’t have these paperwork to review. I mean he has to review it and the= n he can give us some ideas or give us some leads what his concerns are and then= we can walk all day and we don’t know the difference. If there is some wetlands or probl= ems but (inaudible).
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 17
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: You don’t di=
scuss
those issues on a site walk anyway. You just go there to see where ever=
ything
is on the property, and when you come to the next meeting, if you want to
schedule a public hearing for October, I don’t know.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: I guess it will be for October.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: That will give you 2 months for Mr.
Berger to review it. Once you=
open
your public hearing, then you have 45 days to close the public hearing.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: When I go on field trips I like to=
be prepared. I like to ask the engineer if he h=
as any
concerns, questions.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: You shouldn’t ask those ques=
tions
on the site walk.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: The applicant&#=
8217;s
engineer will be there.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: You will have a (inaudible) this m=
onth
and we have Jeremy with us and he can show us where everything is on the
property. We do not discuss a=
ny
issues on the site walk. When=
we
come back next month at the meeting, you can ask all the questions.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: And the soil scientist normally jo=
ins us
on the site trip and they have the wetlands flagged.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: I know, I’ve been on field t=
rips
before, but sometimes if the Engineer reviews it and if I have some questio=
ns
before I go there, I mean I can ask questions to you, I can’t have any
discussion with the property owners, but if I have any questions, and you
don’t have the answer, how am I going to get answers?
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: On a site walk your
questions should be where everything is located, where is lot #1, lot #2,
wetlands, watercourse, to use see the features of the land, and when you co=
me
back at the meeting, then we can discuss those questions that you have. Hopefully by the public hearing
we’ll have a report from Mr. Berger.=
It’s up to you.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I think that’s my point. We want to get them reviewed prior=
to
the public hearing and resolve as many technical issues ahead of time so we
don’t resolve those in the midst of a public hearing. I talked to the applicant and Jim
Sakonchick, that’s the goal here, it’s nice to have staff review
memos when you go on your site walk, not that you can discuss them on the s=
ite
walk, but so that you know some of the issues (inaudible).
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 18
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Polletta: That was my con=
cern
to make sure the staff reviewed that, and we have it in the past.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: It’s just difficult for us t=
o do
when we get that information yesterday afternoon.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.,.
Polletta: You don’t have enough time to
review it.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: At this point w= e won't schedule the public hearing. = I ask for a motion to table this pending the site walk.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION: (Mr.
Polletta, sec. Mr. Jones) to Table and Schedule a Site Walk for Application
#505 of Guernseytown Farms, LLC for construction of 10-lot Phase III
Guernseytown Farms Estates Subdivision,
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Discussion: None<= /p>
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: I will send a noti=
ce on
the site walk. Maybe around 1=
0:30
a.m.
&=
nbsp; C. Application
#506 of James Mullen for cleaning of a farm pond at
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a Public Hearing is not held, then a decision is required by October 15, 20=
04.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; James Mullen,
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Mullen: I filed an application for just a
cleaning out of an existing farm pond.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: His is a farm pond, and Mr. Mullen =
has
the right to clean this pond because they have by right, they have, they can
clean the pond. They’re=
in
front of you just for jurisdictional ruling so you know what is going on.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Jones: You’re saying that they have=
the
right to do this without a permit application?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: No.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 19
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Jones: Without an approval of a permit?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: It’s kind of hard to exp=
lain
because you have an application fee for these, they have to come to the
Commission, but just for jurisdictional ruling, it’s not that you can
deny this. Farmers have the r=
ight
to have a pond on their property for farm use, and they have to clean it ev=
ery
so often.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Farming is a special application
(inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Mullen: The first fee I was charged by the=
way
was $155.00. . . . . .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: Yes, that was a mistake.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Mullen: Right. And there was a question whether t=
here
should be any fee at all as I understand it. Not that I’m griping about i=
t, but
all I want to do is clean the pond out.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Any discussion.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: You are going to use the exist=
ing
material on site, right? What=
ever
you remove out of there?
You’ll just remove vegetation?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Mullen: There’s some silt in there
that’s going to go into the back of my property. I’ve got a place to put it so
they’re just going to take it out of there and put it in a place on t=
he
back of my property that I need some fill.=
But there is some silt in there, it’s not just vegetation.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: They got a machine in there and ju=
st
have them clean it out. How b=
ig of
a pond is it?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Mullen: It’s about 1,000 sq. ft.=
, 800
sq. ft. or something. What di=
d I
say in there. It’s not =
as big
as the first floor of most houses.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: What are they going to use it for, =
just
for detention or for . . . . .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Mullen: No, I use it for, my animals are w=
atered
there.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, Mr. Mullen has an Alpaca
farm. Is it a farm or a ranch=
?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Mullen: Well here it’s a farm I guess=
. In
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 20
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: Do we have to take a field trip on=
this?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: No.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: You can make a decision tonight,
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: We can approve this tonight and I
don’t see any problem with it myself.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION: (Mr.
Polletta, sec. Mr. Beauchamp) to approve Application #506 of James Mullen f=
or
cleaning of a farm pond at
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; D. Application
#507 of Town of
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a Public Hearing is not held, then a decision is required y October 15, 200=
4.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Chuck Berger, Town Engineer,
Representing the Department of Public Works, Town of
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: What I handed out was a larger cop=
y of
something that was already in your packet that I copied right off of this l=
arge
map that I’ll work off here briefly tonight. As most of you and probably all of=
you
are aware, in May of this year a section of the
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 21
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; In
your application package is the hydraulic report which has been prepared by=
the
engineering division as well as the plans with the goal of later this Fall
reconstruction by the Highway Department.&=
nbsp;
The existing bridge was 4.5 feet high by 9.5 wide. The stone masonry abutments with a
concrete deck on top of it. T=
he
footprint of that impact on the streambed is about 304 sq. feet. We are proposing to replace that w=
ith a
concrete box culvert 4 feet by 11 feet slightly greater foot impact up to 4=
40
sq. ft. of a different of permanent impact of 136 sq. ft. in the
streambed. We are also propos=
ing
some rip rap protection on the downstream side, the new culvert, for an
additional 80 sq. ft. of impact, so the total difference from the original
streambed impact to what we propose to put in there would be an additional =
216
sq. ft.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; As
with concrete box culverts, this Commission and many times one of the first
thoughts for environmental reasons is to make the culvert a little bit high=
er
and drop it below the streambed to allow it to fill the natural material.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Very
briefly, go over it real quickly, and I apologize for the colors, but I
couldn’t find a blue magic marker.&n=
bsp;
The green up here is the stream as it exists today. The heavy black lines are the exte=
nt of
pavement. The red line is the=
footprint
of the new and proposed culvert.
The wider line that encompasses the shaded stream is where the exist=
ing
bridge is now, so you see there’s pretty minimal impact, it won’=
;t
really impact the streambed because that’s (inaudible) with fill right
now.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 22
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; From
a flooding perspective the goal is to, what happens at this point, both und=
er
existing conditions as well as proposed conditions, we can’t make this
box large enough to pass the flood flows so it stays totally within the str=
eam
channel. Even under existing
conditions some of the water for the very high frequency storms, more like =
the
1955 flood, some of the neighbors remember it happening, some of it will ov=
ertop
the culvert and flow down the road.
There are a number of obstructions in the stream channel down below =
in
private property owners, bridges and what not, and without undertaking a ma=
jor
flood control project, we’re not going to, again our goal is to have =
the
flooding conditions the same as when we’re done, we’re pretty d=
arn
close to what they are today, so that’s what that hydraulic reports d=
oes,
and I’ll be happen to answer any questions.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: The way I see it on your print=
, you
have water sewer and gas crossing this, so now you say you’re going to
build a box culvert and it’s going to be shaped like a “U”
and sits down like that?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: No it will be a box, concrete on al=
l 4
sides, but if we didn’t have utilities under the stream channel now, =
we
would probably instead of making it a 4 foot deep box, we’d make it a=
5
foot deep box and bury it a foot into the ground.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: So the utilities are below this cu=
lvert?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: Right. And we don’t want to move th=
ose, so
we can’t lower the box culvert, so we’re going to engineer baff=
les
inside it as recommended by D.E.P. Fisheries. The gas line will probably go unde=
r as
well. It will no longer go th=
rough
the middle of the . . . .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: So nothing goes through the bo=
x, but
it will be underneath the box.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: Yes.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: And they’re existing, and
you’re not moving those.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: They’re existing and we̵=
7;re
not moving those. The gas we =
will
relocate. Right now the gas g=
oes
through the bridge opening, it’s an obstruction in the, if you look u=
nder
it and see the gas line is . . . . .
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 23
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: No, but I mean it will be there
after the bridge is in?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: We’ll be able to put that
underneath so it will be a clear opening.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Undercuffler: If any of those utility lines would
fail, in the future under the box culvert, does that present any major prob=
lem,
insurmountable problem?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: It would be a problem, yes.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Undercuffler: But I guess nothing really can=
be
done other than they would have to dig out underneath there and replace it.=
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: (Inaudible) what’s broken and=
go
from there. I will say one of
those, the sewer line is a calculated elevation, and if we find something
different in the field, and feel it necessary to reinforce that, it’s=
not
unusual to encase these in concrete should it be really close to the bottom=
, if
there is anything off in the numbers there that’s certainly an option
that we would consider. We=
217;re
trying to leave the minimum amount of cover so we don’t have to distu=
rb.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: But my concern basically, is that =
once
the Town builds this, all of the utilities that are underneath this the Town
will still be responsible if there is an emergency to remove all of this?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: I don’t know how to answer
that. I mean I suppose if we =
had a
water or sewer break, it’s the water and Sewer Department’s
responsibility to fix it. If it’s under the Public Works culvert, I w=
ould
certainly, I mean we would work together to do whatever we needed to do to =
get
to the broken piece and fix it.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: It will be too much to remove =
it out
of the way anyhow.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: At this point (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: I mean it can’t be that basi=
cally
can this box be lower and the utilities on top, or it’s too high?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: The utilities right now are about 6
inches under the streambed so we’re not, we don’t have any,
we’d have to, at a minimum we’d need a 4 foot deep opening so
we’d have to . . . .
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 24
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: So the bottom line is it is the
Town’s responsibility in case you do have a problem to repair it. You have to remove the culvert,
whatever?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: Yes.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Beauchamp: I had a question about flooding.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: I’m making minor improvement=
s to
the culvert so that we do increase its efficiency, there will be a slight
increase in its efficiency.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Beauchamp: How would you rate it, do you = think it would be rated as far as the 25 year and the 50 year flood or whatever?<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: Somewhere around a 25 year flood wo=
uld
start to roadway over top of . . . .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Beauchamp: (Inaudible) handle that.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: Roadway over top, yes.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Chuck, wouldn’t an optio=
n be
wider versus you can’t go deeper, but you can go wider. Has that been considered?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: Yes.
It has been considered and then we again we sort of get into a flood=
control
project at that point because not only is the stream channel immediately
downstream much narrower, it would take about a 16 foot wide box to get all=
the
water to go through that culvert.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: For a 100 year?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: 50 year. The stream channel downstream woul=
d have
to be widened to accommodate that, we just can't open it up and then as soo=
n as
we dump it out it would hit an obstruction. Probably even more importantly, an=
d I
don’t know if you’ve been out there to take a look at it, if you
walk downstream just a little bit, in the first private property downstream,
there appears to be remnants of possibly an old mill building an old factory
where the channel is extremely constricted, there is a stone masonry bridge
with a metal pipe in it. If we
forced all the water through the culvert, we really should follow that
downstream to make sure we’re not impacting anything. Once it got down to the main stream
we’ve got a nice new culvert there, but in between we’ve got so=
me
obstructions that we would have to remove.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 25
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; We're
sort of doing a balancing act here to improve it as much as we can without
causing additional damage to the downstream property owners and getting the
road open as soon as we can, hopefully before Winter
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: I use that road a lot, but is =
the
damn wall, is that a field stone wall?&nbs=
p;
Has that ever been checked because sometimes it looks like the water
goes right through that wall.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: I guess calling that a dam would be
somewhat of a stretch at this point.
That’s the remnants of a dam that existed prior to the 55
flood. There are certainly so=
me
minor storage that goes on there, but the dam as it existed prior to the 55
flood is breached. There̵=
7;s a
large opening in it. With a d=
ay
like today, maybe not with the rain that’s going on now, but typically
there is no water impounded behind that.&n=
bsp;
It’s going to continue over time to slowly deteriorate and
it’s far enough away from our culvert (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: There’s no concern at this t=
ime.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: Not from a safety perspective.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Jones: When did engineering ever expl=
ain to
you exactly what they mean by the deck ritch snap like a Ritz cracker? I was wondering if that was techni=
cal
(inaudible) and we’re supposed to understand that? (Tape #1, Side B e=
nded
– may have missed some).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: (Inaudible.) I don’t remember the exact da=
ys of
the week, we can go back and look at the calendar, but the goal was to get
something in front of the Town Council I believe the next night after the
failure. It may not be (inaud=
ible)
but basically what holds the concrete slabs together is there is wire mesh =
in
the bottom of it and that wire mesh over the years, water got in there and =
the
bottom half of the Ritz cracker gave away and caused the rest of it to go t=
hrough.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Undercuffler: There’s no feasible and prude=
nt
alternatives on this one.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: But I think it would be a good ide=
a to
go take a look at it since it’s a streambed and everything. How do you guys feel about that?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: We can go maybe that morning, take=
the
morning off and we’ll do field trips.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 26
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Want to add this to the list f=
or
field trips for August 21st?&nb=
sp;
I mean after that at the subsequent meeting we have to decide whether
it’s a significant activity and whether we need a public hearing and
something like that.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: Motion to Table.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Undercuffler: Have you had neighbors or people
pounding on your door about this thing, raising questions?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Berger: We’ve had calls on both =
sides
of the issue, the neighbors in the immediate vicinity love the new cul de s=
ac,
the people who use it for traveling are calling me to ask when it will be o=
pen.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Jones: Is it possible we could move this a=
long,
if there is a question that some of our citizens are being upset by the del=
ay,
and considering that we can’t trust (inaudible) that we might move th=
is
faster?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: You cannot do that, (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: (Inaudible) we can certainly h=
ave a
first hand look at what we’re talking about.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms. Sturgis: We can't have the public hearing in=
September?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Rafey: If you want you can. Do you want to have a public heari=
ng on
this?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Jones: Maybe it’s not a significant
activity.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Well that would be decided at a
future date. Right now we hav=
e a
Motion on the Table for a field trip.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Beauchamp: I’ll second that motion.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: Tabled and site walk.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION: (Mr.
Polletta, sec. Mr. Beauchamp) to Table and Schedule a Site Walk for Applica=
tion
#507 of Town of
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 27
7. &n=
bsp; Old
Business
A. = Freedom of Information Request from Attorney James Strub Secor, Cassidy & McPartland, P.C. concerning properties at 603 linkfield Road and 563 Linkfield Road, Watertown, CT.
Mr. Rafey: This is for your
information. I think Atty. St=
rub
wanted to talk on this issue but he was a little late for Public Participat=
ion.
I don’t know if the commission minds if they speak now.
Mr. Zawadzki: Normally we have a P=
ublic
Participation segment at the end, Item #12 of the Agenda but I guess to move
things along you can speak now.
Atty. Strub: <=
/b>I represent Ken and Do=
ris
Niebel, and I’m sorry I wasn’t on time to speak during Public P=
articipation. What you have in front of you, is =
a packet
of information that Mr. Rafey put together reflecting some correspondence t=
hat
has gone back and forth between our office and the Wetlands office. The Freedom of Information stuff, I
don’t know if the Commission has any questions on it. I’d be happy to address it.<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> I spoke to Mr. Rafey during the
week. What I prefer to talk a=
bout
I’m sure you’re familiar with, I know Dr. Neibel has been in be=
fore
this Commission over the last several months with his own application, also
with his own engineer, Brian Baker, to address certain concerns he has, not
only with the wetland system on his property, the pond, but also the
watercourse up gradient on the neighboring property. So I can discuss like I said, the
Freedom of Information information if you'd like, it’s not something =
we
plan on pursuing. The reason =
we put
it in the request as we did was simply to get the information so that we co=
uld
become more familiar with the history with everything that has gone on with=
the
application. I prefer not to =
make
any claims or suggestions in front of the Commission before I know exactly =
what
has happened in the past. The
office has been receptive about it. I do think it is a concern for the =
Town
to make sure that the Minutes are available for the Town citizens and their
representatives moving forward.
As for the property an=
d the concerns,
I don’t want to go over a lot of material that has been gone over bef=
ore,
but the one thing we would request after reviewing the information we have
received from the Town, visiting the property, speaking to the engineer, Dr.
Neibel’s engineer, Brian Baker, it’s our belief legally under y=
our Regulations
that there is an on-going continuing violation on the neighboring
property. I’m not inten=
ding
to pass some kind of judgment other than that’s what exists.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 28
The pipe specifically =
and
the watercourse has no permit and exists and is a continuing violation whic=
h I
think your regulations set out pretty clearly that an activity such as that
requires a permit. In this ca=
se an
after the fact permit. I cert=
ainly
don’t blame the Commission if you’re hesitant to have somebody,=
I
read in one set of minutes I received that there was some concern about
removing the pipe that it might cause more disturbance than leaving it in.<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> I’m not an engineer, I make =
no
claims to be to know the effects that that would have, but I do think that =
the
application process and the permitting process allows this Commission some
discretion not only to do what is required, which is to impress upon the
Coty’s that they need a permit for their regulated activity, but it a=
lso
allows you to attach some conditions, especially when somebody in the commu=
nity
has done something in violation of the regulations and allows you to attach
some conditions which would mitigate any negative impacts you find from the=
ir
previous activity. I understa=
nd
that this pipe certainly doesn’t compare in size to the situation Chu=
ck
just described with the culvert under the bridge, but nonetheless it still =
has
some impact, and in terms of neighboring property owners down gradient
especially, with wetlands on their property, this is a concern.
As for your regulation=
s,
just looking at a couple of sections which empower the process, Section 4.3=
of
your regulations “all activities in wetlands and watercourse involving
filling, excavation, dredging, or other alteration or use of a wetland or
watercourse not specifically permitted shall require a permit from the Agen=
cy
in accordance with Section 6”.
"Section 6.1: No =
person
shall conduct or maintain a regulated activity without first obtaining a
permit." That’s ex=
actly
the situation here. Somebody =
is
maintaining situation condition on their property without a permit, and
it’s within the power of this Commission to empower your Enforcement =
Officer
to have them come before this Commission and seek the permit. Not only that but it’s argua=
ble
your regulations define certain things, significant activity is defined in =
your
regulations that means that any activity including, but not limited to the
following activities which may have a major effect or significant impact on=
the
area for which an application has been filed or on another part of the inla=
nds,
wetlands, and watercourse system.
Subsection 2 under that definition specifically says “any acti=
vity
which substantially changes the natural channel or may inhibit the natural
dynamics of a watercourse system.”&n=
bsp;
Arguably putting a smooth pipe into a pre-existing watercourse does
exactly that. That’s no=
t a
decision for me to make, one for the Commission to make. I just want to point out that the
provisions in your regulations which address the current situation. At that point I can’t (inaud=
ible)
I don’t have the technical ability to tell the Commission how they sh=
ould
act if an application is put forward, but at that point the applicant would=
be
able to come in with an engineer or an expert of their own, and also the
potentially, depending on if it was considered a significant activity went =
to
public hearing, the Neibel’s engineer would be able to present some
information. I know he had al=
ready
extensively discussed the issue and submitted some information.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 29
With the application t=
hat was
recently granted to the Neibel’s, I think to be honest of the options
available, aside from removing the pipe, of the options available, I think
they’ve gotten the permit for the more expensive option. Some of the other mitigation that&#=
8217;s
available such as rip rap or controlling the watercourse in terms of its
direction and it’s flow, again it would come out during the applicati=
on
process, but I think it was an option that the Commission could consider at
that time. If you have nay qu=
estions,
I’d be happy to answer any.
Mr. Undercuffler: No, I think it’=
;s
pretty straightforward.
Atty. Strub: Okay, so our suggest=
ion or
our request would be that you empower your Enforcement Officer to have the
Coty’s come in for an application for it. The reason why the Zoning Permit k=
ind of
triggered the request is not that we consider that a significant activity, =
but
as long as there is a continuing problem on the property that hasn’t =
been
addressed, any additional impact, we just don’t know what impact that
will have. Thank you very muc=
h for
your time. I appreciate it.
Mr. Zawadzki: My understanding, Mr=
. Coty
has sent us a letter saying he couldn’t be here tonight but he would =
try
to be at our next scheduled meeting which is September 9th to
present or answer any questions that we might have. #2, we discussed this at our last
meeting and we requested that we get a opinion from our Town Attorney as to
what our options are as a Commission because we don’t like the fact t=
hat
this is an after the fact thing either.&nb=
sp;
The speed laws are to keep people from speeding but people still spe=
ed,
and our rules are to keep people from interfering with wetlands, but people
still do it. So the question =
is
what do you do after it’s done, so that’s where we are right
now. My understanding, just a=
s you
stated, Atty. McHugh is in need of those meeting minutes and once he has th=
ose
why then he’ll be able to offer us an opinion and then we’ll sit
with him and find out what that opinion is. At this point I think we need to T=
able
this until our next meeting and then at that point we’ll have your
information, we’ll have our information, and it can be further (inaud=
ible)
hopefully Mr. Coty can be there.
Now I’ve been out
there twice to Mr. Neibel’s property, my understanding is that Mr. or
Mrs. Coty or both has stated that if there were other things that Mr. Neibel
wanted to do that went onto the Coty property, they were offering him
permission to do so. I don=
217;t
want to speak for Mr. Coty at this point, but that’s why he’s g=
oing
to come to the next meeting, as long as Mr. Neibel bore the expense. Now that is something that has to =
be
worked out.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 30
Atty. Strub: I can address that.<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> We’d certainly like to see t=
he
problem on the other property addressed, and not even addressing the financ=
ial
issue, I don’t think we’re in a position even with their permis=
sion
to go onto their property and conduct any type of mitigation or construction
activity, and I don’t necessarily know the whole history between the
neighbors, but I would advise against us undertaking that responsibility.
Mr. Zawadzki: No.
Atty. Strub: We touched on some o=
f the
stuff that the Town Engineer has addressed tonight, this is a situation that
when everybody sits down and talks about it and the setting of an applicati=
on,
might be addressable, might be something that can be worked out, and can
positively impact both properties, I would hope. I can’t speak for the Coty's=
, but
certainly I know the Neibel’s would like the situation resolved so th=
at
the wetlands and watercourse on their property respond positively. Thank you very much.
Mr. Undercuffler: My reaction, it̵=
7;s
all well and good to have Coty come in and talk about it, and I think we ou=
ght
to do that, but I think there’s nothing like having Moosa tell him th=
at
he has to file an application. I
don’t see why we don’t go ahead with that right now.
Mr. Zawadzki: We can do that?
Mr. Rafey: Do you want to wait =
until
we get an opinion from the Town Attorney to see what he says? We can do that anytime, I mean nex=
t time
we can tell him to submit an application, but I’m waiting for the opi=
nion
from the Town Attorney and I’m also waiting for the minutes that Mr. =
Strub
us waiting for, June and July.
Hopefully by next week we will have all the Minutes and I’ll s=
end
it to . . . . . Carol?
Ms. Allen (Clerk): As far as I know
Mr. Rafey: But before the next
meeting we will have everything.
Ms. Allen: I hope so.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 31
Mr. Rafey: I can ask
Mr. Undercuffler: What’s the pro=
blem
for asking for a permit?
Mr. Rafey: Nothing, no problem.=
Mr. Undercuffler: Why can’t we do
both?
Mr. Rafey: It’s up to the
Commission.
Mr., Zawadzki: Yea, we can. I agree. I think there is no reason that we=
need
to wait on the request for an application after the fact.
Ms. Sturgis: Could you tell me wh=
at
this application is going to say? I
agree, but I just want to know what we are going to ask for a permit to do =
with
this point, Mr. Coty?
Mr. Zawadzki: Ask for a permit to = do what he has already done, install a pipe on his property that (inaudible).<= o:p>
Mr. Rafey: Just to get a permit=
for
the pipe that he put.
Mr. Undercuffler: This is similar to t=
he
swimming pool situation, the pool is there and it’s notification that
we’ve looked at it and approved it.&=
nbsp;
Now if he requests it, then we can say all right, we’ll approve
it, but you’ve got to do this, that, and the other thing, depending a=
gain
on maybe what the lawyer comes up with and what the discussions are, and it=
may
be when all is said and done, the two parties can sit down together and work
out something that would be agreeable.
Mr. Zawadzki: Well I also think th=
at
anything we hear from the attorney might affect what we state as conditions,
something like that, but it wouldn’t change the fact that we need an
application.
Mr. Rafey; I just want to hear =
from
Mr. McHugh to tell us yes, we can ask him to submit an application for . . .
. an after the fact applicati=
on.
Mr. Undercuffler: Well we didn’t=
ask
him for that on the pool.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 32
Mr. Rafey: No., but that was
submitted as an application for a Zoning Permit, that’s why we issued=
the
zoning permit and told him you need a wetland approval before we issue the
zoning permit. That’s w=
hy I
sent him to here, cause the pipe, he never applied for a permit and he
doesn’t need a zoning permit for the pipe, he just needs a wetland ap=
proval
from this Commission.
Mr. Undercuffler: So it’s all the
worse. And the same thinking,
DiLeo, I guess, he went in for a zoning permit was that it? DiLeo on the filling of (inaudible=
).
Mr. Rafey: No.
Mr. Undercuffler: So that would be kin=
d of
like . . . . .
Mr. Rafey: No, he didn’t =
need a
zoning permit, he just, somebody said from the neighborhood that he was fil=
ling,
and I went there and noticed that he was filling without a permit and I told
him to stop, to come to the Commission, because there was some wetland acti=
vity
there. I have no doubt that t=
hat
pipe is in violation of the Wetland Regulations because he put it there wit=
hout
a permit. There is no doubt a=
bout
that. It’s up to the Co=
mmission. I can tell him to submit an applic=
ation
next month, or you can wait until you get an opinion from the Town Attorney=
.
Mr. Undercuffler: I’d like to se=
e the
application, my recommendation.
(Inaudible Voice): So do I.
Mr. Rafey: Mr. Chairman, do you=
want
to read this letter into the record?
Mr. Zawadzki, Chairman=
, read
aloud the following letter:
“August 11, 2004=
Moosa Rafey
Inland/Wetland Agency<= o:p>
Dear Mr. Rafey:
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 33
I regret to inform you=
that
due to a previous engagement my wife and myself will not be able to attend =
the
meeting on August 12th.
If need be we will answer any questions regarding our property at 563
Linkfield Road at next month’s meeting with the proper representation=
.
Sincerely,
Mark W. Coty”
Mr. Undercuffler: Who is to say that n=
ext
month there is another prior engagement and he doesn’t show up? This could go on for along time.
Mr. Rafey: You need a Motion to=
ask
him to submit an application.
MOTION: = (Mr. Undercuffler, sec. Mr. Jones) to Demand that Mr. Coty submit an application= for the pipe installation in a watercourse, and in the 50 foot buffer area.
Discussion: None<= o:p>
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOU=
SLY
Mr. Zawadzki: One thing, Mr. Strub=
, in
all fairness with that being said, it’s my understanding that the
Neibel’s have recently dredged the pond without an application permit=
. That’s required as well. So in all fairness maybe we should
consider that, to have an after the fact application for . . . . . any time=
a
pond, Mr. Mullen was just here to have his pond dredged. It’s a wetlands activity and =
it
requires a permit. It’s=
my
understanding that that was done in the last 3 years or so without a
permit. Is that correct?
Mr. Neibel: No, that’=
;s not
correct.
Mr. Zawadzki: When was the last ti=
me it
was dredged?
Mr. Neibel: We did have a permit=
. Mrs. Greene (inaudible) came to us=
.
Mr. Zawadzki: Do you recall when t=
hat
was?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 34
Mr. Neibel: Before the pond was
dredged. She actually recomme=
nded
the guy who did the pond.
Mr. Zawadzki: 3 years ago, 5 years=
ago?
Mr. Neibel: Actually I can tell =
you
she was pregnant, and then we never had the pond done because we couldnR=
17;t
get somebody, and then we asked her and she referred us to the contractor w=
ho
did it, but we did have a permit and it was dredged by, I don’t know =
the
name, I’d have to look it up.
Mr. Zawadzki: Brody?
Mr. Neibel: I don’t know, =
he did
some work for the
Mr. Zawadzki: I guess I got bad in=
formation.
Mr. Neibel: As a matter of fact =
Mr.
Coty got some residue from the pond and used it.
Mr. Rafey: I think they didn=
217;t
come to the Commission to get a permit for dredging the pond.
Mr. Neibel: Mrs. Barton, she gav=
e us
the permit.
Atty. Strub: We’ll certainl=
y look
into it at our end. The Commi=
ssion
shouldn’t have (inaudible) to enforce their regulations.
(Tape #2, Side A ended - may have missed some.)<= o:p>
8. =
New
Business
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki, Chairman, read aloud the following letter from D'Agostino Construction:
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 35
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; "Town
of
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Wetlands Commission
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Attn: Moosa Rafey
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Dear Mr. Rafey:
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; I
am writing this letter because neither myself nor my father, Mario D'Agosti=
no,
can attend the meeting regarding the filling of wetlands at
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Sincerely,
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Michael D'Agostino"
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Undercuffler: Has anybody looked at that? Have they done anything?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Yes, I went there. I received a call from one of the
neighbors that they were pushing some materials into the wetlands, and I we=
nt
there the same day and talked to Mr. D'Aostino, the father, and I told him =
to
stop doing that because of the wetlands.&n=
bsp;
He said he didn't know.
There was a small stockpile of materials, I don't know if it was left
from one of the Town projects or if it was from their own project, but imme=
diately
they stopped and then I issued this Notice of Violation and I told them to
remove them materials back from the wetlands and seed and hay the area and =
if
needed put a silt fence there. And
also I told them if they want to keep that they should come to the Commissi=
on
and apply for a permit. They =
did
remove a little bit of the materials and there are some large boulders, and=
they
said the machine they have cannot remove those, and I don’t know if t=
hey
are from the Town project, but they did seed the area, hay it.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: So they did do what they said they=
did?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Yes.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 36
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: So basically it' another example of
oops?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: As far as the rocks, I mean is it
something that will affect the wetlands?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: When I read this my inclination wa=
s to
go take a look at it.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: You should.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: I don’t think it's a big
deal. My concern is mainly if=
there
is more than just rocks or if there is something else there.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: Also we want to
verify from Chuck if it was really left there by the Town. Did they have a pile of fill on so=
mebody
else's property or on the right of way that he considered part of his prope=
rty?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I don’t know, but I can have=
the Highway
Department check into it.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Will you be able to jo=
in us
on the site walk since he's pointing the finger at the Town?
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger I'll be there.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Polletta: Or you can go b=
efore
the trip and notify us.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: If you can see it betw=
een
now and our next meeting that would be fine too, but obviously it would be
helpful if we were all there together.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I'll definitely get you an answer =
before
the next meeting.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION: (Mr.
Polletta, sec. Ms. Sturgis) to Table and Schedule a Site Walk for Notice of
Violation issued to Mike D’Agostino concerning filling of an Inland W=
etland
on
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 37
&=
nbsp; B. =
Discussion
on the Schedule of Special Meetings and Site Walks
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: The Town doesn't want =
the
staff to use overtime because of the budget problems that we have, and Mrs.
Barton decided not to have the site walks or special meetings on the same w=
eek
that we have the regular meetings.
We work a 35 hour week, Mrs. Allen and myself, and anything over 35
hours, up to 40 hours is regular pay, over 40 hours is 1.5 times the hourly
rate. They want to eliminate =
that
overtime, so they don't want the site walks or special meetings on the same
weeks as regular meetings, so as not to go over 5 hours of overtime.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: So this means that on =
the
day of, like on that site walk, you're going to have to take a day and maybe
leave at . . . . .
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: No. I can go there, as long as it's no=
t over
5 hours. I don't know.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well the total of 5 ho=
urs, including
this meeting, so this meeting is 4.
He's got 1 hour.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Or you can schedule it=
on a
week where we don't have a meeting.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: And if we go on site w=
alks,
sometimes those take a couple of hours so there's 6 hours. He's over the limit.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: But the date that we j=
ust
picked now, that's not the same week of the meeting.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Right, but there is a Z.B.A. meeti=
ng
that week, but it will be a short meeting cause there's only 2 applications=
on
the Agenda. It shouldn't be m=
ore
than 1 or 2 hours.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: So basically what this=
means
is, since we don’t know how long this runs, on any given Thursday nig=
ht,
it's safer to schedule site walks not the Saturday before our meeting cause
that's the same pay week.
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: It's really creating more problems=
. We try to keep it within that 5 ho=
urs of
regular pay as much as possible.
You don't need a motion on this; it was just for information.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 38
9. =
Communications
and Bills
A. =
DEP Notice of Tentative Determination concerning a
State Permit for Discharge into the Waters of the State of
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Polletta: What does this mean? If you have a subdivision you cann=
ot
discharge into the State?
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: Well this is factory o
MOTION:<=
span
style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'> (Mr. =
Polletta,
sec. Mr. Beauchamp) to accept Communications and Bills, Agenda Items 9A as
presented.
Discussi= on: None<= o:p>
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOU=
SLY
10. Repor=
ts
from Officers and Committees
None
11. Repor=
ts
from Staff
Mr. Berger: The one in your packet=
is a
couple of weeks old now. Ther=
e have
been 2 inspections following this July 30th memo. Phase II as indicated in this memo=
has
been cleared and grubbed. The=
y are
in the process of seeding and putting additional seeding down because we
weren't happy with the coverage up on Phase II. Phase II is a much flatter area, n=
ot
visible from the road, but that doesn't mean we're not going to pay very cl=
ose
attention because there is a wetland on the other side of that hill, and we
will be very careful that they don't cause any problems to it. It's a much gentler slope up there=
, but
we did require that the whole thing be seeded and we're waiting for that to=
be completed
and the seed to take. Phase I=
is
still on-going for those of you who have been by it, the road has been pave=
d a
little under a week ago, which is a good thing, but it also presents other
problems that we've . . . . after inspection yesterday I requested that they
have their engineer come out and take a look at the sediment and erosion
control measures there. Now t=
hat
we've got pavement on the road we've got to do something a little
different. You'll probably se=
e some
more silt fence and check dams going up.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 39
The good news is both =
on
this one as well as I'll just talk real briefly about Mr. Calabrese's Phase=
I
application Guernseytown. The
sediment basins that we are having them install are working well, and catch=
ing
sediment. There is continued,=
there
is erosion on Phase I of Reflections and erosion going on up at Guernseytown
Phase I, but the vast majority of it is being collected in the sediment
traps. We are continuing to r=
equire
that they, we don't want that to be the only line of defense. We want intermediate measures thro=
ughout
the site. We spent a couple of
hours out on Guernseytown Phase I, yesterday reviewing those with Mr. Calab=
rese,
and a couple of hours yesterday morning on Reflections.
Mr. Zawadzki: Now those sediment t=
raps
have to be cleaned periodically, right, so somebody has to keep an eye on t=
hem
or you remind them?
Mr. Berger: Yes, we're reminding
them. It (inaudible) be an
issue. They should be done wi=
thin
24 hours of a storm event, and every time we go out there we remind them th=
at maintenance
has to be done on a more timely basis.
B. =
Mr. Undercuffler: Have we heard anythi=
ng
more about the soap suds mystery?
Mr. Rafey: We sent a letter fro=
m the
Chairman to the Fire District, and also Mrs. Barton sent a letter to 3
neighbors on
Mr. Undercuffler: No response from the F=
ire
District?
Mr. Rafey: No.
Mr. Beauchamp: The Fire District rece=
ived
the information and our meeting Monday night was cancelled due to lack of a=
quorum. But they do have the information c=
ause I
talked to the Superintendent. But
again they're still talking in terms that they are not the lead agency. They would be willing to cooperate=
with
whatever agency approaches the Fire District.
Mr. Undercuffler: But didn't we write the
letter? So what else do they =
need?
Mr. Beauchamp: It's not a question of=
the
authority of it, or anything like that, they just don't feel they're the le=
ad
agency. It could be public health or whatever else it might be.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 40
Mr. Rafey: Because this is a wetl=
and
issue we are the leading agency, but we need their help and cooperation.
Mr. Undercuffler: What did the letter say? What did = we ask them for?
Mr. Rafey: There = is soap coming from these areas. Please notice if you did anything and let us know so we can come to = your property and do a dye test.
Mr. Jones: Is the= re any indication that this problem is persisting?
Mr. Zawadzki: Well according to Mr. O'Sullivan yes.
Mr. Jones: That w= as a month ago.
Mr. Zawadzki: Yea= , but he lived back there for years.
Mr. Beauchamp: He= also comes to the Fire District meetings and reports it.
Mr. Jones: So wit= hin the last week, are we still having sudsy problems?
Mr. Rafey: I don't know.
Mr. Jones: Cause I would imagine if someone found that he was guilty he wouldn't want to tell = us, he'd just correct the problem and walk away. That's basically what anybody woul= d do.
Mr. Rafey: I can = go and look at that.
Mr. Jones: If the problem goes away, that's what we are all hoping.
Mr. Beauchamp The= Fire District has sewer lines over there, but they don't have the lines that go = from the house to the sewer.
Mr. Undercuffler: I think what was requested or what we had in mind was to do dye testing and to try and positively get some answers, rather than just see if the thing went away.
Mr. Rafey: But we= need permission from the homeowners to go and do the dye test.
Ms. Sturgis: But = if the Fire District said they'd cooperate with us, can't they get the access to t= hose houses? Wasn't that the idea?=
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 41
Mr. Rafey: Yes.
Mr. Berger: They'= re the only ones who can force access into the houses.
Mr. Beauchamp: Th= ey have no right to go into somebody's house and say I want to look at your basement.
Ms. Sturgis: I th= ought we said they had that right.
Mr. Berger: The F= ire District does.
Mr. Beauchamp: No= .
Mr. Berger: Accor= ding to the Torrington Area Health District, they're the only ones who have that right. Again I don't know wha= t the right word to use here is, but to force a dye test in the basement to make = sure there is no cross connections.
Mr. Undercuffler: I can see why Mr. O'Sullivan is so upset on this thing. It's just a football going back an= d forth. And I can see why people are upset= with the Fire District and want to eliminate it. I live in the Fire District. You're a commissioner, Bernie. I think you ought to try and take = the lead on this thing, not the lead, but try and stir something up.
Mr. Beauchamp: We= ll as I said, at several meetings that we've had the one point they keep making i= s we are not the lead agency in this particular situation.
Ms. Sturgis: Can = Mary call them up and find out the right person's name and say gee, can we get t= ogether and go see these people? I me= an that's a serious question. Do= es she have the right to call somebody at the Fire District and say can we get together with these people?
Mr. Beauchamp: Th= ey're using the Fire District lines, however who is it that is doing it, and what agency should be checking this water if it's being contaminated? Is it the Board of Health or . . .= . .
Mr. Zawadzki: Chu= ck just made the point that the Board of Health said the Fire District has the= authority to ask or require these people to do a dye test or whatever is needed in th= at regard. That's my understandi= ng.
Mr. Berger: That'= s my understanding as well. Bob Sm= ith and I went out . . . .
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 42
Mr. Beauchamp: Th= is is my understanding from talking to the Superintendent.
Mr. Undercuffler: Well maybe he's misinformed. Now listen = to what Chuck was just starting to say here.
Mr. Berger: Bob S= mith and I went out and knocked on somebody's door who we thought was the primary suspect. They agreed to allow= us to come in and do a dye test. We= did that dye test and found that was not the, there were no connections coming = out of their basement. We then id= entified on the map 4 other properties in the area where the soap suds first appeare= d, that are our next line of suspects. We went and met the Superintendent of the Fire District, outlined th= ose properties to him and asked him if his crews could go do the dye test. I followed that up in writing a le= tter to him, and he agreed to do it at the time of our office visit, Bob Smith a= nd myself, the Superintendent. I= followed up in writing with that and it came back to the Commission months later with Denis' continuing concerns that nothing was being done.
Mr. Zawadzki: I a= ssume those are the 3 residences that received letters.
Mr. Berger: Yes, I believe so.
Mr. Jones: Has an= ybody received any information from Mr. O'Sullivan that this problem is continuin= g?
Mr. Zawadzki: Yea= , last month he was back here, this is August, in July he came and said it was sti= ll occurring and in June was when he made his original presentation.
Mr. Rafey: And he called me today on the phone and asked me if I received any information back from those people and I told him no.
Mr. Jones: Did he= say anything about any new suds?
Mr. Rafey: No, he didn't mention anything.
Mr. Beauchamp: Wh= o is the Fire District supposed to cooperate with? I mean they're saying they're read= y to cooperate. Who should they cooperate with?
Ms. Sturgis: Chuc= k or Mary.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 43
Mr. Berger: Okay.= Most of my information is coming f= rom Torrington Area Health. I thi= nk that due to Denis' persistent complaints to Bob Smith and myself, we went o= ut and did that dye test. Bob Sm= ith has informed me he believes it is very clearly the Fire District's responsibility to go knock on those doors and say we need to have access to your basement, we believe there's a problem with a cross connection in this neighborhood and you need to let us in, and Mr. Coppock agreed to do that b= ack in January.
Mr. Beauchamp: I don’t see why all these agencies can't get together and decide at that point who should do it and . = . . . .
Mr. Undercuffler: Well apparently it was already agreed to. Why doesn’t he do what he said he was going to do? That's the question.
Mr. Beauchamp: I'= m just going to say what I said before, he does not consider the Fire District to = be the lead agency. It should be= the Health District.
Mr. Undercuffler: What do you mean by, what does he mean by lead agency?
Mr. Beauchamp: Wh= oever is going to initiate the activity, I assume.
Mr. Rafey: The He= alth Department goes with them.
Mr. Zawadzki: Wel= l if you talk about initiate, we initiated the activity by requesting it be done. I mean this Commission,= I sign . . . . .
Mr. Beauchamp: Ye= a, but I think the, as I said, the answer is they are ready to cooperate, but who = are they going to cooperate with? I think that's the question.
Mr. Rafey: Well t= he Wetlands Enforcement Officer and the Town Sanitarian.
Mr. Beauchamp: We= ll why don't they get together?
Mr. Rafey: We tri= ed.
Mr. Jones: Does t= he Connecticut D.E.P. have any responsibility here?
Mr. Beauchamp: I = would think so.
Mr. Berger: (Inau= dible) real quick. I mean that's an option. I don't know if we cc= D.E.P on the letter but . . . . . if Bob's Smith's interpretation is correct, whi= ch I have no reason to doubt, D.E.P. would very quickly tell the Fire District w= ho's responsibility it is.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 44
Mr. Jones: Well I= was an environmental consultant and I used to deal with the D.E.P. day by day a= nd I know when anybody polluted a river or when the suds came down the Naugatuck River I was telling all my clients, if you're not the cause, call up and explain that the suds are coming down the river so they know you're not the one, because D.E.P. cares about those things, and if there's a question that the Town can't handle this, maybe D.E.P. with a bigger signature like John Hancock, might get some action. I'm still wondering though if this is an on-going problem. I'd like to know that we still hav= e suds last week before I . . . . what if we were to take the position that the problem is probably solved based on the fact that we sent the letter, and t= hat we need to have further another instance of suds before further action is taken?
Mr. Undercuffler: No, I wouldn’t buy that.
Mr. Jones: If the= re were no more suds, the problem is solved.
Mr. Polletta: Yea= , but they can stop it and then start it again.&= nbsp; It's probably better off to just check it.
Mr. Undercuffler: I think we want to find out who, where it's coming from.
Ms. Sturgis: I th= ink we should cc the D.E.P. then.
Mr. Berger: It wo= uld be great to work this out amongst ourselves.&= nbsp; It seems like there is an easier solution.
Ms. Sturgis: Can't somebody call over there (inaudible)?
Mr. Undercuffler: Well Bernie is a commissioner, he's the guy to ask. He's our man on the Commission.
Mr. Beauchamp: I'= ve been on that less time than I've been on here. So I'm very new to the Fire Distri= ct.
Mr. Undercuffler: I think you're the lead guy, actually, cause you're on both.
Mr. Jones: If any= one did, I'll volunteer to call the D.E.P. tomorrow. I'm familiar with the people in th= e Water Compliance Department, I used to deal with these people day to day and ask = them if they can send someone who could either advise us how to handle this or d= o it themselves.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2004
PAGE 45
Mr. Zawadzki: Oka= y, I'll appoint you as a committee of one.
Mr. Beauchamp0: I= think that's a great idea.
Mr. Jones: All ri= ght, I'll do it tomorrow.
Mr. Zawadzki: And= you can report and let Mary Barton know as the Enforcement Officer.
12. &n=
bsp; Public
Participation
None
13. Adjou=
rnment
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Polletta, sec. Ms. Sturgis) to Adjourn the Regular Meeting at 9:27 p.m.
&nbs= p; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&nbs=
p; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&nbs=
p; Regular
Meeting Adjourned at 9:27 p.m.
Respect=
fully
submitted,
Ronald =
Jones,
Secretary
Conserv=
ation
Commission/
Inland
Wetlands Agency
&nbs=
p; _________________=
_________________