beagenda

MINUTES

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CONSERVA= TION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY

REGULAR MEETING

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JOHN TRU= MBULL PRIMARY SCHOOL MEDIA CENTER

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 15, 2005 - 7:30 PM

PRESENT: = ; &n= bsp; = ; Bernard Beauchamp

= &nb= sp; = &nb= sp; Glenn Duplissie

= &nb= sp; = &nb= sp; Ron Jones, Secretary

= &nb= sp; = &nb= sp; Joseph Polletta

= &nb= sp; = &nb= sp; James Zawadzki, Chairman

ABSENT: = ; &n= bsp; = ; = Charles Thermer

= ; &n= bsp; = &nb= sp; Edwin Undercuffler, Vice Chairman

ALTERNATES PRESENT: = ; Denise Russ

ALTERNATES ABSENT: = ; <= /span>Peter Peluso

= &nb= sp; = &nb= sp; Martha Sturgis

OTHERS PRESENT: &n= bsp; = ; Chuck Berger, Town Engineer=

= ; &n= bsp; = ; &n= bsp; = ; Moosa Rafey, Assistant Zoning Enforcement Officer

1. = Call Meeting To Order

Mr. Zawadzki, Chairman, called the Regular Meeting to order at 8:22 p.m.

2. &nb= sp; Roll Call

Mr. Jones, Secretary, executed the Roll Call.

Mr. Zawadzki, Chairman, asked Ms. Russ to sit in for Mr. Thermer, in his absenc= e.

3. = Public Participation

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Kevin Lacilla, 119 Stoney Brook Lane, Watertown, CT 06795

Mr. Lacilla: <= /b>I received a letter regarding a violation of a conservation easement.

Mr. Jones, Secretary, = read aloud the following letter into the record:

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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“NOTICE OF VIOLA= TION

Sent by Certified and Regular Mail

Sent by Hand Delivery<= o:p>

September 13, 2005

Kevin Lacilla

119 Stony Brook Lane

Watertown, CT 06795

Re:       Filli= ng and Grading within a conservation easement area and wetlands/watercourse setback area at 119 Stony Brook Lane, Watertown, CT.

&nbs= p;

Dear Mr. Lacilla:

&nbs= p;

It has come to the att= ention of the Planning and Zoning Office, Town of Watertown, that you have disturb= ed a conservation easement and wetland setback area by removing the natural groundcover, filling and grading within those areas located on your propert= y at 119 Stony Brook Lane, Watertown. A site inspection conducted by the Assistant Wetland Enforcement Officer on S= eptember 13, 2005 revealed that you have disturbed a 25 feet wide conservation easem= ent area and the 50 foot wide wetland setback areas which have been dedicated to protect the wetlands and watercourses, including a pond located on your property and off site. All th= ose activities are conducted without obtaining a permit from the Conservation Commission/Inland Wetland Agency. It was also noticed that no erosion and sediment control measures ha= ve been provided to protect the wetlands and watercourses.

Filling these regulated areas on the above referenced property is in violation of the Inland Wetland and Watercourse Regulations of the Town of Watertown and subdivision approval. In order to comply = with the Inland Wetland and Watercourse Regulations please do the following immediately:

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'>1.      Stop further filling or disturbance of the regulated areas including wetlands/watercourse, 50 foot wetland setback area, and the conservation easement area on your property at 119 Stony Brook Lane, Watertown.

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'>2.      Install erosion and se= diment control measures (silt fence or hay bales) downstream of disturbed areas and around the pond where the vegetation has been removed.

<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'>3.      Stabilize all disturbed areas on your property.

Any activities within = these areas are regulated by the Conservation Commission/Inland Wetland Agency. Please come to the Planning and Zo= ning Office to fill out an application and appear at the next Regular Meeting of= the Watertown Conservation Commission/Inland Wetland Agency on September 15, 20= 05 to discuss with the Commission this Notice of Violation.<= /p>

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A re-inspection of your property at 119 Stony Brook Lane, Watertown, CTG will occur after 10 days f= rom the date of this letter. If f= ull compliance is not established, the full penalties set forth in Section 22a-= 44 of the Connecticut General Statutes shall be invoked.

YOUR IMMEDIATE ATTENTI= ON TO THIS MATTER IS THEREFORE ADVSIED.

Please feel free to co= ntact me at (860) 945-5266 if you have any questions regarding this notice.<= /o:p>

Sincerely,<= /span>

Moosa M. Rafey

Assistant Zoning and W= etland Enforcement Officer

cc:        Paul Jessell, Town Attorney”

Mr. Lacilla: Basically I was look= ing at, Moosa a few months ago was missing my getting approval for my P.O.̵= 7;s and I had a silt fence there and he said look, we need you to install silt fence, I said no problem and I installed a silt fence around the right elevation of the home going down to the pond. After that was done he said there = was one other area that’s falling down and I need you to correct that, so= I went down there and I called him back, and said Moosa, I can’t do anything down there. I’= ve got a number of underground yellow jacket hives and I got stung when I tried to= go down there so I’m not going to go down there. So I decided to call a pest control company, which I have a letter from them, and I had them go look at the underground bee hives because the problem here is not the underground bee hives, even though it could pose a problem, but your problem is tick infested. So we took a sticky= mat, I put it on a pole, I threw it through the brush and there had to be 50 tic= ks that came out of there, and they’re deer ticks because there’s = deer that feed along the water. So= I said to him what do you suggest we do?&nbs= p; And he said I can’t spray down here because it’s a wetla= nds area, you’ve got a pond there and it’s a number of spray applications. He said the best thing to do was to reduce the brush and then resoil over here, and then he = gave me this, from the Torrington Area Health District, recommending what I shou= ld do. So I went and did research before I did anything and this came from I think Bob Smith’s office, = and I don’t know if you want me to read it, I’ll read a couple of clips, I’ll leave it for the Board to review at their own leisure, an= d it talks about the proper procedures. It says most ticks on lawns or (inaudible) transition where the lawn meets the woods, tick area is the outer perimeter to make the edge areas le= ss hospitable to ticks, increase light and reduce dampness, thin tree branches that hang over the lawn to let in light, clear out low brush, vines, and le= af litter each year, a clearly defined well manicured border with woods provide less tick habitat. Don’t attract deer tick to your safe zone by planting flowers, shrubs, or trees t= hey like to eat. They go into eve= n more detail.

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So then I had EnviroCa= re, which I’ll leave you the letter here, I’d like to read this to you. This letter is in regard= s to the property located at 119 Stony Brook Lane. During construction of this home K= evin Lacilla was concerned about the presence of ticks and the health concerns t= hey represent to his family. I explained to Mr. Lacilla that a tick service and a conservation easement ar= ea as impractical and that his strategy of I.T.M. should be undertaken. I.T.M. is an Integrated Pest Manag= ement Program that should be used as a first choice when dealing with pests. The basic premise of the program w= ould be to eliminate food and water and shelter areas of a particular pest to re= duce population. I.T.M. is a far b= etter alternative to the indiscriminate use of pesticides and is in accordance wi= th all departments, D.E.P. regulations governing the applicable pesticides. Notwithstanding any town ordinance= the action was taken by Mr. Lacilla (inaudible) safer zone for his family. Enclosed please find a brochure is= sued by the Torrington Area Health District.

Then I also have some pictures for you so the Committee understands what I did. The area, was it disturbed? Yes, it was disturbed. How it was disturbed, I don’= t know if everybody has the right perception of how it was disturbed. There was no excavating done in th= at area. That area for one was n= othing but leaf litter and just ragweed and I’ve got pictures here from a ye= ar ago in the Fall that show that about the outline. There is nothing here. There was just sticks and brush an= d it was a habitat for ticks and there had to be about 3 o 5 underground bee hives. I’ve got a daugh= ter, a dog, little kids around the neighborhood who play around the perimeter. I respect the Inlands/Wetlands job= and the responsibility, but at the same time there has to be a defined boundary between what’s safe and what is habitable. That place was not habitable for anything worth living there. = It was habitable for problems. It was habitable for ticks and for people to be hurt. There are a lot of kids down there= . All the dog has to do is go down t= here and bring a tick back and you can’t control the dog either. He loves the water and wants to go= down there, but we have problems. = It was never disturbed in terms of excavating.&nb= sp; All that was done, topsoil went over the leaf litter and I have the pictures here to show you that. There was no bushes there, no blueberry bushes, no ornamental grass, those were never touched. It’s still along the perimeter. You can still see that if you go there. So that’s the re= ason why I did it.

Mr. Polletta: <= /b> It is (inaudible) when we did the f= ield trip over there, next to Guerrera? That’s the same house?

Mr. Lacilla: Correct.

Mr. Zawadzki: Well did you understand there was a conservation easement area where you did that?

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Mr. Lacilla: I did understand there was a conser= vation easement, but I did not know that putting topsoil over that would be a prob= lem because after I read, with the Torrington Area Health District, after I consulted a pest management company, I thought I was actually helping the situation out, cause I was going to stabilize the area again. The only error that I felt that I = made was that I didn’t get the hay bales down in time, but that was all go= ing there, we just put that down, that just happened probably a few days prior = to you getting there. He did it = on, I forget what day it was, but it was just a few days prior to you all coming,= and then I did stabilize the area. I’ll put some things back, if you want me to rectify it, I res= pect the Committee and I’ll do what I can, but one thing I can’t make promises on is that I’m not going to let the area get out of control = and I’m not going to allow, that’s right on my property, and when y= ou have a pond there, I mean put yourself in my position. If any one of you had something do= wn there like that, I don’t think anybody would allow that to get like t= hat. As a matter of fact I talked to Tom’s Tree Service, I don’t know if anybody knows Tom, he’= ;s a wonderful, honest guy and I was just on the phone with him tonight. He was telling me how he has Lyme disease, a serious case of Lyme disease, and he said Kevin, that was the ri= ght thing to do, because down along that water there is deer that come down the= re, you can’t allow that to be, he said you did the right thing, plus I wouldn’t have sprayed down there.&nb= sp; Clearing away the little bit of brush was the right thing to do and putting some topsoil, stabilizing the area, put some ornamental grasses the= re and you’re fine, that’s what I would have recommended you do. And on top of it the Torrington Ar= ea Health District confirms that, and EnviroCare confirmed the same thing that= the both of them did, so I did do due diligence in terms of trying to make the = best decision that I could. Could = I have come before this Committee before I did it, yea, I probably should of, my m= istake, I apologize for that. If you’d like me to do a few things to help correct it down there so it’s a little bit more habitable for whatever it is you all want to s= ee down there, I’m open to suggestions.

Mr. Zawadzki: Well basically our purpose here is to protect the wetlands and improve the buffer areas and that was within the buffer area.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> I think that’s what the ease= ment was intended to cover, was the buffer area, and I guess in retrospect the r= ight thing to do was ask for an application.&nb= sp; Chances are with your reasoning and your diligence and research, you probably would have gotten approval, but the process was to get the approval first.

Mr. Lacilla: I understand and t was my fault.

Mr. Polletta: How far did you go into from your property in the (inaudible)?

Mr. Rafey: = I have a map if you want to see it.=

Mr. Lacilla: From here to here is about 10 feet. There’s about 15 feet from t= he edge to right here, maybe a little bit more. I didn’t measure it, but bas= ically I went to where . . . . .

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Mr. Rafey: = You went 50 feet back.

Mr. Lacilla: Well yes, there’s 50 from the water (inaudible). I didn’t t= ouch any of the bushes along the water, all I did was I (inaudible) with the law= nmower and I got rid of, that easy, the ragweed and stuff like that that was there. There were no bushes there. If you want to go down= there and uncover the soil, you can see the grass that I buried. I took 4 inches of topsoil and put= it over a lot of the grass and ragweed that was there. First I trimmed it down, then I pu= t the topsoil on it.

Mr. Polletta: <= /b> There was no excavation ?

Mr. Lacilla: Absolutely not.= As a matter of fact you can go there and take a shovel and dig there= if you like.

Mr. Zawadzki: At this point we’d still like to receive an application stating your objections even though at this point they’re after the fact and you’re (inaudible) behind them and so forth and (inaudible) P & Z office.

Mr. Duplissie: = I’m looking at the map at this point. It looks like the area= that you could have stayed out of is about 75 feet from the water?

Mr. Rafey: 50 feet (inaudible).

Mr. Duplissie: = And then you have the wetland setba= ck of 50 feet.

Mr. Rafey: It was 25 feet from the easement area and behind there there’s another 25 feet from the setback (inaudible).

Mr. Duplissie: = I understand what you’re sayi= ng about your kids, but at the same time, part of a wetlands is also a habitat= for the animals too, so you’re building your house there and that’s part of what we do here with the wetlands, is saving, you have your habitat, but we need the habitat for the animals and the wildlife, and by you going = down and eliminating that and bringing your lawn down to the water’s edge,= you’ve eliminated that area for them. By right, if you had come here, we would have probably said you don’t wa= nt your children to play in there, probably the best thing to do is put a fenc= e up and separate the two.

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Mr. Lacilla: Let me ask you this question, how do you stop children, be reasonable, how do you stop children from all walks of the neighborhood, they all go down around the easement for the Fire District an= d they go down there and play. You g= oing to tell a child, here’s the fence.&n= bsp; They want to get down to that pond.= I’m not home everyday to supervise kids. They’re not even my kids. There are kids who go on my proper= ty over there, they want to have fun, they go and they have fun. I think I did the right thing. I have 4.5 acres. I didn’t encroach on anybody’s property. I&#= 8217;d understand if there was a lot of activity down there, but we’re talki= ng about deer ticks here and I can’t tell you countless people that I kn= ow that have Lyme Disease. IR= 17;m just looking at it from a reasonable, logical perspective, that’s all. I mean there was nothing there. That property had noth= ing going on. There was no habitat whatsoever in terms of shrubbery or grasses or anything like that. It was leaf litter. I’ve got pictures of it, I’ve got video of it. I= f you guys ever want to see it, I took all video during construction and I’= d be more than happy to share it with you and you tell me what you feel is habit= at for animals down there. (Tape= #1, Side B ended – may have missed some).

Mr. Zawadzki: <= /b> (Inaudible) in this area and you= 217;re just one property owner out there and if every single property owner leveled all the grass and trees on his property, and if they took the same approach, this would all be (inaudible) and basically barren and we wouldn’t ha= ve any habitat of any kind left at all, and I don’t think we want that .= . . .

Mr. Lacilla: That’s a fair statement, I agree with that= .

Mr. Zawadzki: <= /b> If we saw what happened there and if everybody did the same thing, came down to the pond, well what would be left? A waterhole.=

Mr. Lacilla: I think it’s a very fair statement. My only rebuttal to that would be = my property, sir, is unique, compared to the rest of the properties there. My property, very gracefully made = that transition to the pond. If yo= u look at the other properties around there, they can’t. I own almost the whole way around = the pond and then there is one person who is about 300 feet back which there’s no way cause it’s all ledge, he can never get in there,= and then another gentleman that comes down almost on a steep angle, you need to repel to get down there so in all fairness that area is not going to be disturbed where I disturbed it with just putting topsoil respectfully. I will do what you’d like me= to do. I don’t want to lea= ve here with an asterisk next to my name.&nbs= p; I want to respect the Committee.&nb= sp; I still want to do what’s right, but I just ask that you also respect the reason why I did it and it wasn’t to have a plush lawn to= the water’s edge. My first = and foremost priority was to protect my family and to protect the other kids th= at are around there and to protect my dog.&nb= sp; I didn’t want any of that coming in towards me, those are the = real reasons, and I’m not fluffing anything here to make you feel anything different.

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Mr. Duplissie: = How are you going to stop the kids = from going, you put a triangular area down on the pond. How are you going to stop them from going off of that little triangular? (Inaudible) off of that little area? Is there a chain link fence that&#= 8217;s going to stop the dog from going over that way?

Mr. Lacilla: Glenn, I don’t think . . . . . let me ask = you, do you have a suggestion for me?

Mr. Duplissie: = Listen, all I know is this, is that= we have a 50 foot setback and that 50 foot setback is you do not disturb it. I can’t solve your problem w= ith the kids cause doing that little piece is not going to get rid of the kids.=

Mr. Lacilla: Let me share this with you, I think what I did eliminate is a large problem for me, a very large problem because in my back yard, the kids now have an area where they can call home, instead of them trying to gallivant around certain areas where they can nestle in because t= here are some low lying areas, they don’t have to do that right now. They can stand right down there or= have an open area if they ever needed to, but my main concern wasn’t to ha= ve the lawn there. That portion = of where I put the topsoil over was strictly for the ticks not being right up = abut against my property, right where the kids would play. There’s a tree right there, there’s a birch tree sitting right there, it’s a perfect tree, = that brush was along that birch tree, all along the birch tree. As a matter of fact, I had Joe Mat= ozza over there that was doing some clearing for me, and he even said I had a problem over there. Do what you’d like me to do, and I’ll do it but . . . . .

Mr. Polletta: <= /b> We can talk about this all night long. I think the damage is d= one, you know you’re not supposed to do it, so I think we have to talk amo= ngst ourselves and see what we are going to do.= There is nothing to change it, the thing is done, so let’s see what we want to do about it. = We can be here all night arguing this.

Mr. Lacilla: Absolutely.

Mr. Polletta: <= /b> We have a lot of (inaudible).<= /o:p>

Mr. Zawadzki: Well that’s the next step, to submit an ap= plication to Moosa based on, pretend that it’s already done and (inaudble) and describe it that way and the reasoning behind it and we’ll go from th= ere.

Mr. Lacilla: Fair enough.

Mr. Rafey: = If Mr. Lacilla submits an applicati= on it takes this Board 2 months to review it and make a decision. That area is disturbed now. Do you want to leave it the way it= is?

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Mr. Polletta: We can talk about it.

Mr. Lacilla: I’ve got to stabilize that area immediatel= y.

Mr. Duplissie: = Is it hayed now?<= /p>

Mr. Lacilla: Yes, I had to put some seed down.

Mr. Duplissie: = So it’s seeded and hayed but = stay out of that setback area, don’t mow it, don’t fertilize it, tha= t 50 foot area, you have your own map, but stay out of that area for now and then we’ll review your application and go from there and see if we canR= 17;t get something back that’s acceptable to you and to us, to give us back our setback and (inaudible)?

Mr. Lacilla: Okay, that’s fair.

Mr. Rafey: = Do you have a planting plan, what i= s your plan?

Mr. Lacilla: I didn’t bring it with me, but I’ll = give you something according to what the Health District recommends that I put d= own there to keep the habitat, I’ll do some ornamental grasses down there= and I’ll stabilize it with some shrubs.

Mr. Rafey: = If you could submit an application = with a planting plan for this area and what (inaudible).

Mr. Zawadzki: We recommend consulting with someone like a conservation guy to get a recommended list of wetland plantings.=

Mr. Lacilla: I do have a gentleman already, a landscape archi= tect and an arborist.

Mr. Zawadzki: <= /b> And no mowing.

Mr. Lacilla: I don’t think I’ll be mowing at this point. Thank you very much.

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4.         = Action on Minutes

&nb= sp;

A.        Continuation of Public Hearing, July 14, 2005, App. #526, P & A Enterprises, LLC

B.         = Continuation of Public Hearing, July 14, 2005, App. #527, Patrick Graziano

C.      =            Regular Meeting, July 14, 2005

D.      =            Continuation of Public Hearing, August 11, 2005, App. #526, P &= A Enterprises, LLC

E.      =             Continuation of Public Hearing, August 11, 2005, App. #527, Patrick Graziano

F.      =             Regular Meeting, August 11, 2005

        &= nbsp;   MOTION:       (Ms. = Russ, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Table Items 4A through 4F as presented

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;   Discussion:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;   MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

&nb= sp;

5.         = Pending Applications

&nb= sp;

A.        Application #531 of Nelson Lynn for construction= of 13-lot Windy Ridge Estates Subdivision and new roadway on Bunker Hill Road, Watertown, CT.

If the Public Hearing = is Closed on September 15, 2005, then a decision is required by November 18, 2= 005, unless applicant grants a time extension.

Mr. Zawadzki: We need a Motion to Table this unt= il our next meeting.

MOTION:<= span style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'>       (Mr. Polletta, sec. Mr. Beauchamp) to Table Application #531 of Nelson Lynn for construction of 13-lot Windy= Ridge Estates Subdivision and new roadway on Bunker Hill Road, Watertown, CT.

&nb= sp;

Discussi= on:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

MOTION P= ASSED UNANIMOUSLY

&nb= sp;

B.         Application #533= of Concetta Guerrera for piping a watercourse and filling wetlands to provide = rear yard for a new single family dwelling on Lot #3 Stony Brook Lane, Watertown, CT.

&nb= sp;

If Public Hearing is n= ot held, then a decision is required by October 14, 2005.

&nb= sp;

Mr. Zawadzki: We took a site walk o= n this last Saturday.

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George Moet, Attorney

Atty. Moet: We represent Ms. Conce= tta Guerrera, A representative fr= om D’Amico & Associates is here and I’ll turn it over to him n= ow.

Brian Nesteriak, D’Amico & Associates

Mr. Nesteriak: I met most of you on t= he site on Saturday. The plans haven’t changed since then. Just to go over quickly what we have proposed after the soil scienti= st took a look at it, we’re proposing to fill in this portion of wetlands which is directly downstream of an area that was already filled in as part = of the previous subdivision. Bel= ow the existing wetlands there is a pipe, the soil scientist recommended we remove that pipe and take it down on the wetland grade, basically mitigate wetlands and add in some plantings to encourage the wetland growth. After the site walk or after these= plans (inaudible) chance to take a look at these plans or the soil report I’= ;d be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Mr. Rafey: This is a copy of the subdivision plan that shows the original approval for this lot.<= /span>

Mr. Zawadzki: = Let the record show th= at the drawing was passed out to the Commission entitled “Hidden Pond Estate= s” and it’s dated 2/04/94, Robert Petchie, 1670 Litchfield Road, Waterto= wn, CT 06795, Fred D’Amico = PCLS (inaudible) Bucks Hill Road, Southbury, CT. Sheet #2 of #11.=

Mr. Rafey: The outlined area is L= ot #3 back here.

Mr. Zawadzki: = This drawing doesnR= 17;t show any filling in that area at all.   It shows the proposed dwelli= ng location with the driveway and leaving the wetland area in tact, so the per= son who purchased the lot knew when they purchased the lot that this would be proposed and approved detail, so that’s . . . .

Mr. Nesteriak: I can’t say whet= her he new it, but that’s what was approved and we’re certainly aware = of that, that’s why we’re here tonight.

Mr. Polletta: = On this watercourse, i= s it active all the time? I was ov= er there a couple of times and the only time I saw water or when it was wet was during the field trip. My con= cern is that I look at the location of the house, the lot looks like a V, there = is water running in this all the time?

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Mr. Nesteriak: It only runs basically= when it rains or during the heavy, wet season.

Mr. Rafey: During the Winter and = Spring there is running water. When = we were there it’s kind of a dry . . . .

Mr. Polletta: = I went by there a coup= le of times and there wasn’t. Every time I went by there, and even the other day when it rained, I didn’t= see any water, and I’m saying, I’m wondering if this is wet all the time (inaudible). How much we= tlands is behind this house? What ki= nd of wetlands is it?

Mr. Nesteriak: It’s basically an intermittent watercourse, a drainage ditch.

Mr. Polletta: = I didn’t see any vegetation, like a wetlands vegetation.

Mr. Nesteriak: The only area that rea= lly opens up into a true wetlands is right before that existing pipe, there are some cattails growing down there, just in this little area, and that’s one= of the main reasons the soil scientist didn’t recommended to open up that area further and add in some vegetation to try and encourage that growth.

Mr. Rafey: There is a copy of thi= s map in your packet, the gray area is the wetlands.

Mr. Polletta: = I saw it, but I’m just saying how much water runs there all the time and just (inaudible). We have 5 f= eet of wetlands. I’m just look= ing at what (inaudible). This is one= of the lots that sometimes, I mean it’s a V lot. Why was it approved like this? (Inaudible) on this house and (inaudible) and I have my (inaudible) going in back of it, I think it will cause more erosion on that wetlands being open than being enclosed. So the question is, what I wanted = to bring up, let’s say if we disturbed 500 feet of wetlands, can we crea= te 500 feet of wetlands (inaudible) so we can keep everybody happy?

Mr. Rafey: But that is a watercourse. Once you pipe th= is there’s no other place that you create another watercourse.

Mr. Polletta: = Well we don’t ha= ve to pipe it all the way to the end.

Mr. Rafey: How much is it?

Mr. Nesteriak: About 100 feet of watercourse we’re filing and we’re creating more wetlands.=

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

PAGE 13

Mr. Duplissie: You’re filling i= n the wetlands but you also, I mean you have, it’s not just a wetlands thou= gh, you have 50 feet of setback on both sides of it.

Mr. Polletta: = Is this good wetlands?= It doesn’t look like a prist= ine wetlands. If this is approved= , and I’m not disagreeing with that, what I’m saying is if I put a po= rch on the back of this house, I have a cliff . . . .

Mr. Duplissie: But wetlands are wetla= nds.

Mr. Polletta: = I understand that, but= what I believe, my kids play at the (inaudible) they are going to create erosion right down, so to compensate, behind the house, we don’t have to (ina= udible) but we can have partial to level off behind the house and create whatever wetlands we need there, we have to create some on the other side.

Mr. Nesteriak: I think we can do that= .

Mr. Polletta: = I’m just saying = if we give them something that can work for everybody, (inaudible). I know that Mrs. Guerrera should h= ave looked at this before she bought it, however, it was done, it was approved = this way, but I think you’ve got people in back of your house, the dirt go= es right into the wetlands, I mean are we trying to protect the (inaudible). Whatever it is, I never would have approved the lot like this, but it was done and I think we have to do whate= ver is best not to make it any worse than it is now.

Mr. Duplissie: But when the subdivisi= on was approved, the house was set. = It looks like about 15 feet back from the setback area. And now they’re building the house, they’ve got 3 feet from the setback area.

Mr. Polletta: = (Inaudible.)

Mr. Duplissie: I agree with you, Joe.=

Mr. Polletta: = I never saw a lot like= this, so my point is I think it never should have been approved like that and I disagree with (inaudible) I think maybe we can work with you, and I speak f= or myself, this Board should look behind the house so we do not create any ero= sion into the wetlands. If you bui= ld the house and you go in the back of the house, every time (inaudible). I think this was a mistake to crea= te a lot like this. That’s w= hat I believe. (Inaudible.) I would create the back of house at least level so we don’t (inaudible) and whatever we lose there as a wetlands, I would like you to create another area over there maybe 1,000 fe= et or 2,000 feet if you have the room (inaudible).

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

PAGE 14

Mr. Rafey: 25 feet.

Mr. Duplissie: You have 1 in 20 scale= ?

Mr. Nesteriak: That’s right.

Mr. Duplissie: Joe, they have a . . .= . from the side yard, 25 feet?

Mr. Nesteriak: 25 feet from the side = yard, 50 from the front.

Mr. Duplissie: I’m willing to l= ook at this, instead of having the house set over here, if the house gets moved ov= er to here, then that way it could still (inaudible) and not fill all the way = back here. If you move the house o= ver here, I understand you’re trying to get the back yard, so if you move= the house over back that way, then if you do 50 feet of fill, rather than110, at least it would create some yard and fill (inaudible) 50 feet of grading, and that way they wouldn’t need the whole wetlands and they would pick up= some back yard and then they could bring the sewer line down he back near the septic.

Mr. Polletta: = Can you move the house= a little bit this way?

Mr. Nesteriak: I think we can move it= a certain point. I don't know if aesthetically it would be acceptable to put it all the way up against that = side yard setback.

Mr. Duplissie: I’m not showing = it, if you could come over here for a second, this is your setback right here, and I’m saying move the house maybe 50 feet from your setback, and by doi= ng so, instead of having to put 110 feet of fill here, we go 50 feet, and at l= east you pick this up as back yard, and yet we don’t lose the whole wetlan= ds, this is our wetlands back here where we started (inaudible). We would lose the whole thing.

Mr. Polletta: = Is this the end of the= lot?

Mr. Duplissie: It goes down all the w= ay to the lake.

Mr. Polletta: = How far is that from t= he property line?

Mr. Nesteriak: 110.=

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

PAGE 15

Mr. Polletta: = What I’m trying = to say is I believe that this lot was a mistake, period, because it’s too steep. But like Glenn said, i= f we could move the house over a little bit, and whatever wetlands we’re g= oing t lose, you’ve got plenty of land over here to create a wetlands. And then instead of grading all th= e way to the end, maybe just go partial, but we just don’t want to lose, we have 1,000 feet of wetlands, we want to make sure if we lose it from here, = we want to get it somewhere else.

Atty. Moet: Yea, that’s not a problem. Whatever we lose creating new wetl= ands is not going to be an issue. = The only concern I have is I don’t know how far we can move the house over. I understand your conce= rn about not giving the hole 110 feet. I don’t know about cutting it in half, maybe 70 feet. Whatever the case is, if your conc= ern is replacing the wetlands that are lost, that’s not an issue. We can agree that whatever wetland= s we lose we will create, equal to or greater than that amount. The concern I have with moving the house, is not so much moving it, it’s because of everything else that’s involved with the house, the footing drains, septic system, everything else that goes into it.

Mr. Zawadzki: = Well those are simple, footing and roofing drains are easy.

Mr. Duplissie: The septic tank is eas= y too, cause it’s here, and they’d only have to be “x” amo= unt here, 25 feet from the house, so if you move the house and you did your 50 feet, at least you’ve created a little of a back yard. If we give 50 and you have 50, I t= hink that’s a fair thing, compared to you filling in this ravine, which is= a nice ravine.

Atty. Moet: I wouldn’t consi= der this wetlands. You guys are t= he experts. It’s more of a drainage ditch. From this poi= nt over is wetlands. At this point I don’t know if we can say that we can move the house.

Mr. Zawadzki: = I think whether we do = ask for feasible alternatives, but it at least should be considered and we shou= ld (inaudible) on other alternatives and so far you haven’t shown us any other alternatives.

Mr. Nesteriak: One of the reasons we = have the house where it is other than aesthetics, but one of the reasons is we’re trying to keep it out of the wetlands buffer.=

Mr. Duplissie: In the original plan t= he house was closer to the property line, it was 50 feet from that line, and n= ow you’ve shifted it over to (inaudible) it goes to 100 feet so you̵= 7;ve moved the house away. It was approved that way and now you’re moving it that way and you want us to fill the wetlands. (Inaudible= ) so if you shift back and you give a little, we give a little, that might be an alternative, I can only speak for myself.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

PAGE 16

Atty. Moet: I don’t think that’s going to be a big issue. I mean as far as alternatives go, like I said, whatever this Board grants us to take away or fill in, creating that much or more new wetlands = is not going to be an issue, and I believe that’s what the soil scientist talked about.

Mr. Nesteriak: Which is what we’= ;re doing.

Mr. Duplissie: Even if you fill half = of it, you’d still, whatever we give up over here you’d still have to create down below and they did talk about them moving that pipe down below which seemed like a waste of time, so pull that pipe out and that would hel= p a little. It’s a an iron = pipe that’s existing on the site, remember? It’s way at the end.

Mr. Nesteriak: But the reason we prop= osed to do that, is if you remember correctly, the cattails were growing right on the uphill side of that pipe and that’s where the actual wetlands are thriving, so we’re proposing to rip out the pipe, bring it down to gr= ade, put some plantings in there to increase the size of the wetlands. Above that area is where we’= re proposing to fill it in is basically a ditch, and the soil scientist said that. It doesn’t have a= s many wetland qualities as say down by the pipe and that’s where we are proposing to mitigate the wetlands.

Atty. Moet: And it’s also our setback on (inaudible).

Mr. Polletta: = Where is the drop from= where the house is to the bottom of that watercourse?

Mr. Nesteriak: 20 feet.

Mr. Polletta: = My concern is that. (Inaudible) drop back of the house (inaudible) into this ditch, so I think we’re talking about protecting the wetlands, I think we’d be better off . . . . .<= /p>

Mr. Duplissie: The other situation is= that we don’t put the house there and there won’t be any kids there = to serve the wetlands.

Mr. Polletta: = I think (inaudible) go= the other way. I don’t thin= k she would have a problem (inaudible). This is something, the drop is (inaudible). I walked this land. I (inaudible).

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

PAGE 17

Mr. Duplissie: We can’t (inaudi= ble).

Mr. Polletta: = No, I understand that,= but we have a problem and again how can we, what’s best for Watertown, we have some beautiful homes over there and I see some houses over there that = are incredible, so if I lived over there and all of a sudden there was a cliff = next to my house, I wouldn’t want to see that. Whatever we disturbed we have to g= ain.

Mr. Nesteriak: I agree with you.=

Mr. Polletta: = And I agree with Glenn= , if we could take this house and move it over a little bit, and move it that wa= y, and then (inaudible).

Mr. Nesteriak: I agree with you. This is an opportunity to possibly mitigate some wetlands into a more functional environment and that’s = why we’re doing it.

Mr. Polletta: = I was very concerned s= o I went by there 2 or 3 times, and I didn’t see any water, so (inaudible= ).

Mr. Zawadzki: = Okay we have to determ= ine if this is a significant activity which would justify a public hearing either because of the interest of the neighbors or the Town in general or because = of the impact on the wetlands.

Mr. Duplissie: I think it’s les= s of an impact or a significant activity if we cut it in half.=

Mr. Zawadzki: = Yea, but we’re t= alking about as proposed, because we haven’t seen any alternatives yet.=

Mr. Duplissie: As proposed, I think i= t is.

Mr. Zawadzki: = (Inaudible) is a signi= ficant activity.

Mr. Rafey: We need a Motion to determine that.

Mr. Zawadzki: = I understand that.

Mr. Jones: Is it possible it coul= d be modified and not be a significant activity?

Mr. Zawadzki: = It’s possible. Yea, based on what we see in front= of us right now, we’re dealing with what we have in front of us.=

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

PAGE 18

Mr. Nesteriak: Could we make an assur= ance of something and could you base your decision on that? If we assure you that we’ll = try to reduce it by a certain amount?

Mr. Zawadzki: = No, we’d have to= see it on paper.

Mr. Nesteriak: Okay.

Mr. Zawadzki: = We don’t have to decide on this until October 14^th.

Mr. Nesteriak: Could we come in next = month before you determine it’s a significant activity with that proposal?<= o:p>

Mr. Rafey: Then you lose another month. If you’re going = to have a public hearing, it’s better to have it next month and then they can close the public hearing if they are satisfied and make a decision.

Atty. Moet: If you decide it’= ;s significant and you want to hold a pubic hearing next month, between now and next month could we come in with a new proposed plan and have the public hearing on those plans?

Mr. Zawadzki: = We hope you would.

Mr. Rafey: Present it to the Comm= ission at the next meeting, during the public hearing, then we can discuss those plans.

Atty. Moet: We’ll present th= em prior to the next meeting so you’ll have an opportunity to review the= m.

Mr. Zawadzki: = No, our next meeting w= ill be the public hearing. In which = case you could submit the plans.

MOTION:       (Mr. Duplissie, sec. Mr. Beauchamp) that Application #533 of Concetta Guerrera f= or piping a watercourse and filling wetlands to provide rear yard for a new si= ngle family dwelling on Lot #3 Stony Brook Lane, Watertown, CT is a Significant Activity.

&nb= sp;

Discussi= on:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

MOTION P= ASSED UNANIMOUSLY

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

PAGE 19

&nb= sp;

MOTION:       (Mr. Beauchamp, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Schedule a Public Hearing on Application = #533 of Concetta Guerrera for piping a watercourse and filling wetlands to provi= de rear yard for a new single family dwelling on Lot #3 Stony Brook Lane, Watertown, CT.

&nb= sp;

Discussi= on:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

MOTION P= ASSED UNANIMOUSLY

&nb= sp;

MOTION:       (Mr. Duplissie, sec. Mr. Beauchamp) to Table Application #533 of Concetta Guerre= ra for piping a watercourse and filling wetlands to provide rear yard for a new single family dwelling on Lot #3 Stony Brook Lane, Watertown, CT.

&nb= sp;

Discussi= on:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

MOTION P= ASSED UNANIMOUSLY

&nb= sp;

(Tape #2= , Side A ended – may have missed some.)

&nb= sp;

C.      =            Application #535 of Scott and Melanie Stephenson for construction o= f an addition to an existing single family dwelling at 350 Middlebury Road, Watertown, CT.

If a Public Hearing is= not held, then a decision is required by October 14, 2005.

Mr. Zawadzki: We also saw this on Saturday. Everything we said on Saturday was= off site and unofficial so at this point you might just summarize for the Commission what you propose to do in the application.

Scott Stephenson, 350 Middlebury Road, Watertown, CT 06795

Mr. Stephenson: I’m proposing a = one room addition on the side of my house, it’s going to go the length, 22 feet, and the rest of the side of the house will be a deck, approximately t= he corner of the addition, is about 30 feet from a drainage ditch that runs al= ong the corner of the property and goes under the road. At the field trip it was recommend= ed to put silt fence and hay bales and if possible have the excavator go on the o= ther side of the house.

Mr. Zawadzki: = Did you agree to that?=

Mr. Stephenson: Yes.=

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

PAGE 20

Mr. Duplissie: When we looked at it a= nd it’s already lawn, the whole area is lawned and has been lawned for 6= 0, 100 years, so (inaudible). He’s going to put a small addition and he has no other place to put that addition. I just tho= ught that if he (inaudible) use either silt fence or hay bales and protect the d= own slope of the property while they’re doing construction, I have no pro= blem with it.

Mr. Polletta: = Any construction behin= d the house (inaudible) close to the wetlands?

Mr. Duplissie: As much as possible. I know he’s not going to get= the concrete truck that way but . . . . .we’re going to excavate on the o= ther side, so if he just bring the concrete truck, I think that will be fine.

Mr. Zawadzki: <= /b> Yea, I don’t see any real pro= blems with that either under those conditions so I guess we could make a Motion to Approve this Application.

MOTION:       (Mr. Duplissie, sec. Mr. Beauchamp) to Approve Application #535 of Scott and Mel= anie Stephenson for construction of an addition to an existing single family dwelling at 350 Middlebury Road, Watertown, CT subject to standard conditio= ns.

&nb= sp;

Discussi= on:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

MOTION P= ASSED UNANIMOUSLY

&nb= sp;

6.  &n= bsp;      New Applications

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;   A.        Application #534 of Francine and James Gellas for construction of a new on site sewage disposal system within upland review area at 136 Northfield Road, Watertown, CT.

      &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;     If Public Hearing is not held, then a decision is required by November 18, 200= 5, unless applicant grants an extension of time.

Ron George, C.= P.A. Engineer

=

Mr. George: You should have in your record= s, I hope you do, cause Bob Smith said he was going to send something over from = the Health Department that he approved . . . . .

=

Mr. Rafey: Yes, I got it.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

PAGE 21

=

Mr. George: It’s an existing 2 bedro= om house located at 136 Northfield Road. The applicant is proposing an addition on the house along with the addition of a garage, and they’d like to relocate the driveway from o= ne side to the other because of the steepness of this. This driveway, this garage, itR= 17;s just a garage, there’s nothing above it, it’s a drive and a gar= age, a roof that’s going to be on the ground. The well is in the front. The only place we could put a sept= ic system is in the rear. What h= as been shaded in green is a wetlands, up on top of this flat area up here. (Inaudible) the Health Department = Code (inaudible) was a B100 but because of the nature of the age of the house and the unknown about the septic, they asked us to replace it, so we replaced it with a 3 bedroom septic system and they’ve since approved it. The soil conditions are mediocre a= nd would require a curtain drain on most sites, but because of where the wetla= nds are and the sensitivity (inaudible) of this issue, I just added extra fill, another foot of fill and raise this thing up and avoid a curtain drain of potentially maybe drying out the wetlands or not and the Health Department = was more than happy with that idea. It will be a pump system, new septic tank and pump chamber, over here pumping = up to these two rows of galleys, there are fills associated with it, we are wi= thin 5 feet of the wetlands.

Mr. Polletta: Where will the pump be located= ?

Mr. George: On the south side of the property.

Mr. Polletta: I’m looking at the plan, but it doesn’t show the pump.

Mr. Zawadzki: Tel= l me how the fill is going to replace the curtain drain and why a curtain drain would dry up the wetlands?

Mr. George: That = was the Health Department’s concern; the Wetlands Commission might object= to putting a curtain drain here.

Mr. Zawadzki: Cause it would stop the flow of water?

Mr. George: Yea, I mean, it’s below = the wetlands. I didn’t thin= k it was a big deal, but in order to satisfy everybody we decided to add an extra foot of fill, but it’s just basically a good mound system and now the water will drain around it and this thing will be able to (inaudible).

Mr. Zawadzki: This will actually be built up, mounded?

Mr. George: Yea, it’s going to be a mound, if you look at the cross section here.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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PAGE 22

Mr. Zawadzki: (Inaudible) has it on mine.

Mr. George: You don’t get a full plan?

Mr. Zawadzki: No,= we get an abbreviated one.

Mr. Rafey: I have a full one.

Mr. Duplissie: Ho= w far away is the system from the house?

Mr. George: Proba= bly 35 feet. There’s no footin= g drains associated with the house, so that could be within 25 feet.

Mr. Polletta: Thi= s is an existing, non-conforming lot, right?

Mr. George: Pretty much.

Mr. Duplissie: On= this drawing I don’t see the existing septic system.

Mr. George: That’s cause we don’t know where it is.

Mr. Duplissie: It= could be going right to the wetlands, right?

Mr. George: We we= re told that it’s where our septic tank is. We found the septic tank dead cent= er behind the house, we drew a little circle.= Our surveyor, when he opened it up, said there’s a pipe that g= oes this way, so it could be over here, we don’t know. This is being abandoned and remove= d, that’s why the Health Department said not to mess around and replace = it now while we can instead of waiting 1, 2, 3 years down the road when you ha= ve to do it.

Mr. Duplissie: Is= there any way to move the system a = little closer to the house to stay away from the wetlands?

Mr. George: To be honest with you, and this probably sounds odd, but the soils down below the= re were worse, they were more, the high ground water was higher over there, it actu= ally had a good deep hole up on top here. It doesn’t make sense, but that’s what we had.

Mr. Duplissie: So= the closer to the wetlands, if I get this correctly, you have the house up here= the land comes down and then comes back up?

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

PAGE 23

Mr. George: No, t= he house is down, the wetlands are up here, comes downhill like this, to the h= ouse here. There’s a flat sp= ot pretty much on top of this hill is where we’re putting the septic.

Mr. Duplissie: So= the wetlands are on top?

Mr. George: Yes.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> It could just be because it’= s a flat area up there and the water just sits there.

Mr. Zawadzki: It&= #8217;s kind of dog legged or banana shaped.

Mr. George: It do= es drain out, there’s an intermittent stream over here that kind of dissipates over here and disappears.

Mr. Duplissie: So actually the septic is this (inaudible) it wouldn’t be leaching down,= up . . . .

Mr. George: It's = going to go towards the house.

Mr. Duplissie: It wouldn’t go towards the wetlands.

Mr. George: No, i= t the wetlands are above it.

Mr. Rafey: I just talked to Bob Smith about this and there is no other location where they co= uld put the system. (Inaudible.)<= /p>

Mr. Zawadzki: Wel= l, I will restate my questions, that shaded brown area there, if that were dog legged or bent, would that keep you out of the encroachment into the green?=

Mr. George: IR= 17;d have to stay 25 feet from this intermittent stream. And if I turn it anywhere down I g= et into the slope at all I’d rather not because of the soils.

Mr. Duplissie: Your actual excavated area would b= e how far from the wetlands?

Mr. George: <= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> 5 feet so that puts the septic thou= gh right up against that corner.

Mr. Duplissie: But we are down gradient of your wetlands.

Mr. George: It’s going to be below it.

Many people talking = at once (inaudible).

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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PAGE 24

Mr. Zawadzki: It’s a straight line thing ri= ght now that you (inaudible).

Mr. Duplissie: I don’t see any other altern= ative.

Mr. Rafey: It’s an existing situation.<= /p>

Mr. Polletta:= The good thing is that the septic = system does not (inaudible) discharge to the wetlands, towards the house, so we wi= ll never worry about it going down below.

Mr. Zawadzki:= We can’t make a decision ton= ight anyway since it’s a new application, so the other question is, do you think it’s necessary to do a site walk?

Mr. Duplissie: I don’t see a site walk on this. (Inaudible.)

MOTION:       (Mr. Polletta, sec. Ms. Russ) to Table Application #534 of Francine and James Gellas for construction of a new on site sewage = disposal system within upland review area at 136 Northfield Road, Watertown, CT.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Discussion:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

&nb= sp;

  &n= bsp;         B.         = Application #536 of Angelo Tedesco Real Estate for construction of Section II of Oakwood Acres Subdivision consists of 21 building lots Pine Ridge Drive, Oakville, = CT.

&nb= sp;

      &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;     If Public Hearing is not held, then a decision is required by November 18, 200= 5, unless applicant grants an extension of time.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Paul Benevich, Land Data Engineers=

Mr. Benevich: = If you can recall Sect= ion II of Oakwood Acres off of Sunnyside Avenue in the Oakville section of Watertown. I don’t know= how many of the Commission members were here about 3 years ago when we got what’s now called Section I, Burrowy Road and Pine Ridge, if you̵= 7;re familiar with this area, just up from Franklin street, on that steep part of Sunnyside, that subdivision is almost entirely built up. The utilities are in, the roads ar= e in, Borrowy and Pine Ridge, and we’re proposing to extend Pine Ridge Driv= e up through what used to be the Shaw Farm property here and also property adjac= ent to it owned by Nick Vicerelli, the total site area is about 19.1 acres and = the extension of Pine Ridge Drive and then come back into Sunnyside opposite Sh= aw Farm Road here, for a 4 way intersection.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

PAGE 25

The only wetlands issu= e I believe is we have a small area, the northeast corner of the site, that was= flagged by David Lord the soil scientist, 8 flags are shown here in blue. To the north of this is the Cercemaggiore Community Club property.&nbs= p; This wetlands drain down into their site to a watercourse that eventually ends up going under Route 8, maybe 1,000 feet from this site and under the highway. We’re proposing, our storm water drainage is going down to this point with the proposed detention pond in this area and due to the site constraints for creating a zero increase in runoff from the 2 up to the 100 year storm, we = have a slight intrusion into this wetland of about 200 feet. Since we submitted these plans I realized we do have some room here to make at least, an equal or even like a 2:1 mitigation of the wetlands we’re losing. There’s an area here that= 217;s relatively flat, we can create compensatory wetlands by excavating the upla= nds soil, replacing it with the wetlands topsoil from this area and creating up= to at least 400 or 500 square feet of wetlands that would be adjacent to this strip as it exists now. All t= he drainage is coming down into here. We are proposing a two chamber gross particle separator as we instal= led on Section I and is functioning off of the other end of Pine Ridge Drive and that’s for reducing sediment intrusion into the pond and then into the watercourse eventually draining out of the pond. That’s basically about it.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Polletta: Only this wetlands on = site?

Mr. Benevich: = Yea, this little pocket right here.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: Is that a dry bottom p= ond?

Mr. Benevich: = Yea, right. It will only fill up during a rain= storm.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Polletta: The storm will come th= rough and be connected (inaudible)?

Mr. Benevich: = We have a control rele= ase structure with a pipe and a rip rap outlet draining down into this wetland which goes off our property boundary into a culvert under a driveway, it’s like to the soccer field, the club has their outing area, their barbeque, bocce pits over in this area, there’s a driveway too, I gue= ss it’s a soccer field, I’m not sure what they use it for, there&#= 8217;s a watercourse that goes just under their driveway, there’s a pipe that goes back into the watercourse and runs all the way down to Route 8.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

REGULAR MEETING

SEPTEMBER 15, 2005

PAGE 26

We have walked it yest= erday, and of course everything was dry until today and it was kind of a fairly we= ll maintained channel going down to the highway there, but this whole subdivis= ion is being piped down to here because the detention pond in Section I, which = this road grade would actually take some of the runoff that way, that pretty muc= h at capacity the way it got designed and built in Section I, so we’ve got some double catch basins on the high side which is taking most of the drain= age from the hill, so that we’re minimizing the runoff going to the Secti= on I detention pond and (inaudible) dragging this water back, kind of against the grade to get it down to our time here but originally, right now if you go o= ut and walk the site, which I assume the Commission will do, the stone wall on= the boundary between Section I and what was the Shaw Farm, you can see that it’s up fairly high and all this water went this way, it didn’t= go that way originally or now it doesn’t, so we’re not really redirecting runoff from one area to another, this came down this hill, along this stone wall, hit this other stone wall and ended up in this corner where we’re proposing a pond, you know, under this application. I have submitted calcs, I don̵= 7;t know if Chuck reviewed any of them yet as far as, we’re submitted to P & Z also.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: I need a copy of those calculations for the file. You didn’t give me any with the application.

Mr. Benevich: = Oh you need one just f= or wetlands? Okay, I’ll ge= t you those.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: There is access from t= he road, down to that pond?

Mr. Benevich: = Yes, there will be an = access road just like in Section I.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: There will be like a gr= avel, grassy area?

Mr. Benevich: = I think P & Z want= s the . . . . . pavers, right.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: Well I saw them on the= first drawing (inaudible).

Mr. Benevich: = Yea, that’s bett= er seen on the site development plan, there’s a driveway down (inaudible). There will be no houses within a couple hundred feet of the wetland area, it’s just a = pond and the drainage construction.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: Is it feasible to shap= e the pond so that it would be out of the wetlands?

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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Mr. Benevich: = You know I really trie= d to do that but (inaudible). Wate= rtown has about the toughest restrictions on designing a detention pond, they wan= t a 15 foot berm around the top, where a lot of towns want 10 feet or let you g= o 10 feet, and with the 3:1 slope, if I even had a 2:1 slope on the downhill sid= e of this I’d be out of it, but I did try. This is cut into the bank as much = as I could, and we can do some mitigation. We’re talking a fairly small area, about the size of your sett= ee of the Commission’s area.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: That’s the total= area of the pond?

Mr. Benevich: = The area of the pond I forget is about, maybe a couple tenths of an acre, a quarter of an acre, 200 square feet.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: Plus you have the setb= ack area on top of that. And the = only way to do that is to pull the pond away from that property line.

Mr. Benevich: = Right, which we tried = to do.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: (Inaudible) if you had= a different (inaudible) slope.

Mr. Duplissie: Or if he got rid of Lo= ts #7 and #8.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: Didn’t we just h= ave one like that where we talked about a 10 foot versus a 15 foot berm?

Mr. Berger: We did, I think that w= as the Winthrop Street Subdivision, I believe.&nb= sp; They have not applied to Planning and Zoning at this time, but I did discuss the issue with Mary Barton, and my understanding is the top width a= nd side slopes are not a waiverable item in the subdivision regulations so that will have to be modified and probably back and forth with this Commission f= or discussions.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: Because they were goin= g to submit it with a 2:1 and 10 foot . . . . .

Mr. Berger: Or they will submit it= in compliance with the (inaudible) footprint (inaudible).

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: I said to get rid of Lots #7 and #8 but maybe if we just got rid of o= ne, that would allow you put (inaudible) for your lot and your house and allow = you to pull the pond further away from the property line and not be within the wetlands or within the setback area.

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Mr. Benevich: = There would be a hard = time getting completely out of the upland review area, not a hard time, well as = you said, if we lose a lot or whatever. I can submit that as an alternative.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: Basically that’s the issue, correct? In order to . . . . get as any lot= s as possible, you put the pond further back.

Mr. Benevich: = Yea.=

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: But can those lots be shortened up?&= nbsp; I mean not even eliminate them, but just shorten them up to make some space.

Mr. Benevich: = Lot #8 is, Lot #7 is 2= ,000 feet over. You see how this b= ack line is here, we originally had this straight across, and I did hinge this = to get the pond away to some extent.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Polletta: What zone is this?

Mr. Benevich: = R-30, it has public wa= ter and sewer which is just extend the lines that are in Pine Ridge here to ser= vice all the lots.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Polletta: The lot sizes is 30,00= 0?

Mr. Benevich: = Basically 30. There are some lots somewhat over,= but everything is under 40,000 square feet.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: What about open space?=

Mr. Benevich: = Last night at the P &a= mp; Z meeting, at this point they don’t even want this. We’re proposing this as open= space which they don’t normally want, but that’s what we’re proposing, and they don’t even want this conservation easement because before it was against some homes over here on Ridgeway Avenue, but this bei= ng against the cross, they don’t even want the conservation easement, we’re probably just going to give them a fee in lieu of open space, w= hich is what they suggested last night, so I think that’s what is going to happen.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: Lot #7 and #8 would be nice as open space.

Mr. Zawadzki: = Well yea, have you considered any other alternative plans to present any encroachment into the= wetland area?

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Mr. Benevich: = No, I haven’t. I said I just I’m thinking o= f it in the last week or so, we can provide mitigation for what we think is a re= latively small intrusion into the wetlands. I guess that’s an alternative if you consider that.=

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki Well it would be an alternative to have one lot we have #7 and #8 and make it one lot instead of two and then just bring it back.

Mr. Benevich: = Yea, if we lose a lot, there’s no question, I can get the pond out of the, I don’t thi= nk, I’d probably have to lose both to get it out of the review area. A lot more excavation then too bec= ause we’d be back into the hill and I don’t know how Planning would = feel about that. A lot of earth wo= rk.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Polletta: We are going to take a= field trip on this?

Mr. Zawadzki: = Well that has to be decided. We can’t make a decision on this tonight, we have to decide if it’s a significant eno= ugh for a site walk or enough public interest for a public hearing and so that’s where we are now.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Polletta: Very minimal wetlands, right? It’s right on the corner, you don’t have a lot of them so I don’t (inaudible).

Mr. Duplissie: 200 square feet wetlan= ds, how much buffer it’s hard to tell, I don’t have the calculation= s to see how much buffer is affected.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: To have a field trip it doesn’t have to be a significant activity, you can decide to look at = the property.

Mr. Polletta: = You have a very minimal wetland and we’re not disturbing that much, and it’s hard to mo= ve the lot, but on the field trip maybe we can see better. Maybe we can see the topography of= the land (inaudible).

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: It’s up to the Commission if they want to see it. You can Table it until the next meeting and see it before the next meeting. I think it’s b= etter cause when you come back Mr. Benevich will be here and you’ll know wh= at he’s talking bout.

Mr. Polletta: = I mean (inaudible) los= e a lot.

Mr. Zawadzki: = We can’t decide tonight anyway. (Tape #2, Sid= e B ended – may have missed some.) Do you wan t to do a site walk, and then a Motion to conduct a site walk?

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  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         MOTION:       (Mr. = Polletta, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Schedule a Site Walk for Application #536 of Angelo Tedesco Real Estate for construction of Section II of Oakwood Acres Subdivi= sion consists of 21 building lots Pine Ridge Drive, Oakville, CT.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Discussion:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Benevich: If the Commission wants to walk th= e site itself more you can meet at the old homestead here, the old Shaw, like right off of Sunnyside, it’s a bit of a trek to get down there, but I know = the way, by now, but to get to this area directly, it’s a lot easier to c= ome in through the club, cause you’re right there, you can drive almost u= p to this site and there’s just walk around a stone wall. You can do either or both.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Polletta: We should meet at the end of the c= lub.

= ;            &n= bsp;          Mr. Zawadzki: Is there a park= ing area?

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Benevich: Yes.

= ;            &n= bsp;          Mr. Rafey: By the Club.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Benevich: As long as that cable to the back is open.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie: Don’t you have that street th= at you’re connecting off of is in, correct, from Phase I?

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Benevich: Right.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie: That’s a cul de sac or (inaudible)?

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Benevich: Yea, this is paved, and you can pa= rk right there.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie: You can park right in that corner = and then come in from there, then we’re off the street and not going onto priv= ate property.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Benevich: Okay, that’s fine. What time?

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Zawadzki: That will be determined.

= ;            &n= bsp;          Mr. Rafey: I will send you a notice.

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  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         MOTION:       (Mr. Beauchamp, sec. Ms. Russ) to Table Application #536 of Angelo Tedesco Real Estate for construction of Section II of Oakwood Acres Subdivision consists= of 21 building lots Pine Ridge Drive, Oakville, CT.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Discussion:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

&nb= sp;

  &n= bsp;         C.        Application #537 of William Davidson for 18 lot residential subdivision located on Morr= is Town Line Road and Litchfield Road, Watertown, Ct.

&nb= sp;

      &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;     If Public Hearing is not held, then a decision is required by November 18, 200= 5, unless applicant grants an extension of time.

      &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;     Mr. Zawadzki: It’s my understanding that this proposed layout was rejected by Planning and Zoning last night? So we need a desi= gn?

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Ron George, Engineer

Mr. George: Yes.=

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: Do you still want to go through it?

Mr. George: I was going to give yo= u a brief presentation. I started (inaudible) Luke Street in the zoning regulations as a cul de sac and (inaudible) so we can’t= do this, they wouldn’t accept anything so what I did really fast today w= as a 18 lot layout that would meet zoning (inaudible). This parcel is on Morris Town Line= Road, about 1,000 feet south of the Town of Morris town line, about 74.6 acres. What I’ve done is had the sa= me road entrance, just brought a road crossing this wetlands here with a 100 f= oot crossing here and with another cul de sac road over this way. We would have another driveway cro= ssing for Lot #17 and we can get a lot back here this would be the driveway crossing. Right now it’s preliminary, we haven’t finalized anything, we’d have to get you some finalized plans by the end of next week. I was at Planning and Zoning last = night and they agreed, they were receptive to allow a 24 root road with swales, so that would be the proposal.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: The rest right now on that ske= tch that you did how many square feet of disturbed wetlands do you have?

Mr. George: I did a quick, this is= I want to say 3,800 and I have this one that will come out to about 4,400.

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: This is how many acres?

Mr. George: 74.26, zoned R-90. There is a lot of shallow ledge wi= thin this whole farm meadow.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: What is that site next= to you?

Mr. George: This is Mr. Palomba= 217;s property, from about here back it’s all wooded. On this band of wetlands here is w= ooded and then this corner down here is wooded.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: That’s the turkey crossing.

Mr. George: Is it? Right at the bend in the road ther= e, Route 63 is right here, Morris Town Road is here and there is a farmhouse r= ight here, and a driveway actually is right where we’re crossing the road (inaudible). Any concerns?

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: Well there are a lot of wetlands there and its looks like a little hodge podge right now. Are there any other alternatives w= ith fewer lots?

Mr. George: I had looked at possib= ly taking out Luke Street and then bringing it through there, but I still came= up with the same amount of lots, we were going to do 17or 18.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: You have 4,400 square = feet of disturbed wetlands but you also have a lot of disturbed area in setback also. I’m looking at th= e way you had your lots set up. Rig= ht now you just have the lots there, you don’t have any houses set on that.<= o:p>

Mr. George: Right, this is (inaudi= ble) preliminary.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: We have a hard time looking at it to see how much is disturbed, once = you put some grades on there and show the houses . . . .

Mr. George: The only thing I can t= ell you is that the septic areas that you see on the original submittal, and ma= ybe the septic areas you see here, I guess my septic areas cannot move because = of the soil condition down here, and the 18 lots is probably a reach of what I= can get out here for septics. I h= ave probably 16 or 17 that I feel comfortable with, there’s no other, I h= ave designed this subdivision this layout based on where my septic areas are.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: Is there any way you c= an avoid the crossing?

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Mr. George: I probably can, I can probably bring, I’d have to have another road coming out here to be a= ble to get . . . . 14 lots.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: You have to have 2 exi= ts to the road?

Mr. George: Yea, if I do that 1,00= 0 foot road, I can get maybe 8, 10, 12 lots if I’m lucky. I can’t get any interior lot= s, I can do one, that’s why I need to come in through here, I can come back out here and probably avoid this crossing and probably come up with the . .= . . .

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: What’s the scale on that map?

Mr. George: 100 scale.<= /span>

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: From the Town Line Road to the wetlands you have about 400 feet. So you could do lots off of that r= oad and not have to cross the wetlands, you can do probably 3 of them.

Mr. George: These lots here will n= ot cross the wetlands.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: Correct, so if you have those 4 lots there, not crossing the wetlands, and you put in 1,000 feet of road and you can get 8, 9, or 10 lots off of i= t . . . . .

Mr. George: No, we can't.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: Why not?

Mr. George: I’m counting tho= se too. That’s start where= my first plan was and (inaudible). I spent a lot of time trying to . . . . .

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: Well what happens if you have 2 cul de sacs?=

Mr. George: It can’t be more= than 1,000 feet from the road. If = you look it the packet, I had alternate layouts submitted with the project before an= d I had the road this way and the cul de sac this way, but the total length of = this road coming into there is 1,400 feet (inaudible). I can come up with another layout = that gets rid of this crossing if the Commission would feel better about that.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: From what I understand you have another month to play with.

Mr. Rafey: The Commission can ac= cept this application tonight and then you can submit (inaudible).

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. George: Yea, an alternative way. I assume you guys are go= ing to want to take a look at this, so I want to give you something that you can p= ut that (inaudible).

Mr. Zawadzki: = Yea, if we do a site w= alk it would probably be the Saturday before the next meeting, the 8^th = of October so that gives you some time.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. George: I have probably a week= or two. If I have this correct, = you aren’t all that thrilled with this crossing?=

Mr. Zawadzki: = No.<= /p>

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. George: Then I’ll go back to the drawing board and work something else = up.

Mr. Zawadzki: = Yea, we’d like t= o see no crossings if possible.

Mr. George: I just didn’t wa= nt to have two roads close to each other.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: If you had no access whatsoever and you had to do one crossing, then we’d probably, we’d look at your 70 acres and say hey, thatR= 17;s a different story, but you have some way to get onto the property without touching the wetlands, and it’s my understanding that you’d lik= e to maximize the number of lots, but at the same time we have to save the wetla= nds.

Mr. George: Our original feasibili= ty study for this, before we did any testing or anything, was 45 lots. We started doing deep holes and th= is is what we got.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: Are the wetlands flagg= ed on this property?

Mr. George: Yes, they re.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: If you can have the so= il scientist on the site walk that would be helpful.<= /p>

Mr. George: Okay. Do you want anything staked, like = the road or anything? Well right = now we don’t have the road, we don’t know, yea, I think if we have a s= ite walk, we’ll park at a certain point and walk you through the property= so we can see and . . . .

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: Go up about where he has the access road.

Mr. George: We can drive up into t= he field if it’s not too (inaudible).

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Berger: By accepting this application tonight in its current form, you’= re really using up 30 to 35 days of our time.= (Inaudible.)

Mr. Zawadzki: = Good point.=

Mr. Rafey: The Commission has 65 = days to hold the public hearing, they can ask for another 65 day extension. As long as they . . . . . it’= ;s up to them. If they want to with= draw this application and resubmit it with a complete set of plans (inaudible).<= o:p>

Mr. Duplissie: Can we still have a s= ite walk? Because a site walk in October is nice, but November might have snow on the ground. Can we do a site walk even though = we don’t have . . . .

Mr. Rafey: You can still walk the property if the applicant agrees to it.

Mr. George: I don’t think t= hey would have a problem with that.

Mr. Polletta: What is the purpose of walking this property if we don’t know if (inaudible)? I would like to walk the property = when we have a formal application so we know where everything (inaudible).<= /o:p>

Mr. George: You’ll have a s= et of plans next week.

Mr. Polletta: If we have a set of p= lans that are complete like our Engineer said I agree, but if there’s noth= ing (inaudible).

Mr. Rafey: If you have a formal application, but this is not complete.

Mr. Polletta: If the drawings are complete, but (inaudible).

Mr. George: <= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> If you’re saying the walk is October 8^th, you’ll have them 2 weeks prior, you’ll = have them at the end of next week.

Mr. Duplissie: And you already have = our concerns. You’re coning= up with a site plan . . . .

Mr. George: I will come up with something that does not cross the road.

Mr. Duplissie: Yea, something that y= ou think we’ll accept, otherwise we’ll be coming right back to you= .

Mr. Jones: So you’ll have markings for the corners of the houses and the lots?

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Mr. George: Yes, if you’d l= ike.

Mr. Jones: I think that will cert= ainly help.

Mr. George: Looking for a stake = at the center of the houses?

Mr. Duplissie: You don’t have= to stake the 4 corners, give us a stake somewhere so we have an idea. If it’s Lot #4 and house #4, put a stake there that says #4 and you get a feel for the property and the land.

Mr. Zawadzki: So I guess the questi= on is, if we should accept this application as presented or consider it as complete and have them resubmit and start the clock a month from now?

Mr. Duplissie: To me it doesn’= t make any difference, but I’m concerned about Chuck because that takes 35 d= ays of review time away from Chuck.

Mr. Rafey: It depends on when do= you want to hold the public hearing. I= f you accept the application tonight, you have 65 days to hold a public hearing, = or you can ask for an extension of 65 days after 65 days, a total of 130 days = to hold a public hearing.

Mr. George: It’s sounds lik= e its headed for a public hearing.

Mr. Zawadzki: Yea.

Mr. George: So the public hearing won’t be the next meeting, at least a month after that.

Mr. Zawadzki: = Yes.=

Mr. Rafey: Weather-wise if you w= ant to see the site, October is better.

Mr. Zawadzki: Well he can have draw= ings at the site walk.

Mr. George: No, I’m not goin= g to bring them with me, I’m going to submit them next week.

Mr. Duplissie: It’s nice too w= hen we’re looking at it on the site, to have your wetlands marked in a co= lor, so it’s very visible to us on the drawing.

Mr. George: Right.

Mr. Duplissie: Whatever Chuck would prefer I think is how I feel at this point . . . . . . .<= /p>

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Mr. Berger: I just want to point = out to the Commission that 30, 35 days of our time is used without a complete application.

Mr. Duplissie: Do you want to wait a= nd accept it next month when we do the site walk?

Mr. Berger: My recommendation is it’s an incomplete application given what he has proposed to us tonight. It’s up to you= what you do with it. (Inaudible) c= hanged in the application we have in our hands.

Mr. Duplissie: Well the one that we = have in our hands is rejected, correct?

Mr. Berger: (Inaudible) formally withdrawn?

Mr. George: We had formal discussi= ons on a road width discussion and they brought it to my attention last night that= a deep street is defined in their regulations. I missed it and they missed it I g= uess at the preapplication meeting so last night was my first time hearing it so= I had 24 hours to try and come up with something for you guys to look at. As far as I was concerned this was= a go, so I think what’s going to happen now is this is going to just go like this, and that’s what you’re going to end up seeing, so all of = this stuff is probably going to stay the same and I’m probably going to lo= se a lot over here. That’s w= hat you’re probably going to end up seeing, something like that. That’s going to avoid crossi= ng over here, that’s the only thing I can think of, so this is close to = what you’re going to see, but this is going to go and I’m going to h= ave to get a road up here.

Mr. Zawadzki: Okay, how do you feel= about accepting it as is or rejecting it as an incomplete application?=

Mr. Rafey: You can do 3 things, = the applicant can withdraw the application or you can accept it as an incomplete application and next month they submit a plan, or you can deny the incomple= te application.

Mr. Duplissie: Well if we deny it th= ey can still resubmit it next month and if you want to do a site walk now fine, otherwise we’ll wait until November.

Mr. Rafey: But they have to subm= it another application fee.

Mr. Duplissie: How much is that?

Mr. Rafey: I think it’s $1,= 800.

Mr. George: If you can waive the = fees we would consider withdrawing.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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Many people talking at= once (inaudible).

Mr. George: Because that wastes 30 days of my client’s time as well.

Mr. Rafey: You can do two things.= You can accept it the way it is, e= xcept Chuck is concerned about the 35 days that you’re losing. If you’re not ready to hold = the public hearing within 65 days, you can ask for an extension.

Mr. George: I’ll give you an extension for the public hearing if that’s what you guys are concerned about.

Mr. Duplissie: That’s not the issue. I’m not 100% cle= ar on what you’re trying to say to me.

Mr. Berger: We’re giving aw= ay 30 days of our time because of the change that happened last night. We don’t really know what the application is before us right now, and I mean the discussion tonight almost sounds like a preliminary discussion rather than a presentation of an appli= cation. But it’s not a preliminary discussion, it’s a formal application. That’s not what was presented here, which in my mind tells me we haven’t seen the good application. I have recommend= ed in the past, incomplete applications get rejected, and you guys don’t al= ways agree with me, I don’t think you have rejected one, but I just wanted= to point out to the Chairman and the Commission that we’re in the same p= lace again, I believe we have an incomplete application before us, and this may = not sound right but we’re losing 35 days of our review, decision time, an= d I don’t think the applicant is losing anything.

Mr. Zawadzki: I need to say for the record that Joe Polletta has left the meeting at this time, at 10:02 p.m.

Mr. George: Following up on what = Chuck was saying, can this meeting be Tabled and accepted at the next meeting?

Mr. Rafey: Tabling it means they accepted the application.

Ms. Russ: Like Chuck just said,= by closing 35 days, that means you’d have to review all the soil tests a= nd everything and what would you normally do in the first 35 days of accepting= the application? And if we did th= is tonight with the informal application, you’re going to get that 35 da= ys later, so for Chuck’s sake, if we accept and he pulls out again the application tonight and if we waive the application fee, (inaudible) and Ch= uck is not pressured to get the .= . . .

Mr. Duplissie: Have you already spe= nt time on this?

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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Mr. Berger: Very little. It’s not only, I mean itR= 17;s the Commission members too, cause we should have . . . .

Mr. Duplissie: A complete applicatio= n in front of us rather than waste our time.&nb= sp; I hear what you’re saying.

Mr. Berger: Why go to public hear= ing when we’ve got . . . . we should be going to public hearing with fewer issues being brought up.

Mr. Duplissie: I get the fact that t= he guy is in front of us, and I see he’s got an $1,800 fee in front him and I can understand that he doesn’t want to lose that, and we have a choic= e of waiving that fee or just rejecting his application, give him the $1,800 and he’s got to submit all over again.

Mr. Rafey: But in defense of the applicant, the application the way it was submitted, it was complete, and l= ast night what happened at the Planning and Zoning meeting . . . . .=

Mr. George: Yea, if I didn’= t go to Planning and Zoning I’d be presenting this tonight.

Mr. Rafey: (Inaudible) applicati= on is complete, but last night the Planning and Zoning Commission rejected this, = this is not a (inaudible).

Mr. Zawadzki: My feeling is we shou= ld ask the applicant to withdraw it and we’ll waive the fee.

Mr. Duplissie: Now last night was a preliminary meeting?

Mr. George: It was informal.

Mr. Duplissie: So technically he was prepared and he would have had this in front of us and we’d be settin= g up a site visit right now, and then he’d be going to P & Z and they’d say no, and then he’d have to call us back and he’d have to grant us am extension because he doesn’t have anything ready = for us.

Mr. George: But I’m not goin= g to P & Z until after I get through here, so I would have been . . . . .=

Mr. Zawadzki: I recommend the appli= cant withdraw this application and resubmit and we’ll waive the application fee.

Mr. Rafey: Will you write a lett= er?

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Mr. George: Do you want that withdrawal tonight?

Mr. Rafey: Yes.=

Mr. Duplissie: I wasn’t sure = what you were saying.

Mr. Berger: I mean the Commissio= n has a total number of days. Our tot= al number of days was cut in half last year by the State Legislature. We have a fixed amount of time to = do each one of our studies. Exte= nsions are allowed for each one of those, but we’ve got a fixed amount, whic= h is half of what we had a year and a half ago.

Mr. Rafey:<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> For this Commission the number of = days was 75 days and now they have 65 days and then they can ask for an extensio= n of 65 fays.

Mr. Berger: So the total amount = of time has not changed?

Mr. Rafey: No, it was increased = for this Commission. But for the Planning and Zoning Commission and the Zoning Board of Appeals it was decreased.

Mr. Zawadzki: We need a Motion to r= eject this.

Mr. Rafey: We don’t reject = this, (inaudible).

Many people talking at= once (inaudible).

Mr. Rafey: Don’t forget to= write that you’re asking for a waiver of the application fee.

Mr. Zawadzki, Chairman= , read aloud the following letter for the record:

“In regards to Application #537 of William Davidson, 18 lot residential subdivision, David= son Farm in Litchfield, on Morris Town Line Road and Litchfield Road, I’m submitting a letter to the Commission dated September 15^th, we h= erby withdraw our Application #537 for Davidson Farm and Litchfield Road and resubmit and fees being waived. Signed by Ronald George.”

Mr. George: Now the site walk will still be scheduled for October 8^th, correct?

Mr. Zawadzki: It will be just preli= minary at that point.

Mr. Duplissie: Well he feels he will= have the drawings in by then, in a week he’ll have those ready. I’d rather do more site walk= s now than in December. I’m v= ery busy in December.

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Mr. Zawadzki: I don’t see any= harm in doing a site walk.

Mr. George: I just don’t wa= nt to do 2 site walks.

Mr. Duplissie: We won’t.=

Mr. Zawadzki: Well that’s pr= etty rare. Basically we want to se= e the terrain, see how things are, how extensive the wetlands are, how viable the= y are, and then from that point on we can look at the map.

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         MOTION:       (Mr. Duplissie, sec. Ms. Russ) to accept the Withdrawal Letter for Application #= 537 of William Davidson for 18 lot residential subdivision located on Morris To= wn Line Road and Litchfield Road, Watertown, CT.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Discussion:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

        &= nbsp;   D.        Application #538 of Kevin Rameikas for deposition of fill and grading within upland rev= iew area at 434 Colonial Street, Oakville, CT.

      &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;     If Public Hearing is not held, then a decision is required by November 18, 200= 5, unless applicant grants an extension of time.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Kevin Rameikas, 434 Colonial Stree= t, Oakville, CT 06779=

Mr. Rameikas: = I have a copy of the r= eport from the soil scientist.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: I will take that.=

Mr. Rameikas: = So far I had some silt delivered to my yard and then I was contacted by Moosa that I needed a perm= it, which I wasn’t aware of, and also that I would need this soil to be tested by a soil consultant which I had done this past Monday, a copy of th= e report which I just gave to Moosa, and he identified a small amount of wetlands in= the back yard. (Tape #3, Side A e= nded – may have missed some.)

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: There is a piece of wetland on= the property and this is the area that was filled. When I visited the site I noticed = that there was some wetland vegetation on the property, I wasn’t sure exac= tly where but (inaudible). I aske= d the homeowner to hire a soil scientist to flag the wetlands and make a report o= n a map of where the exact locations of the wetlands re. This drawing shows that the fill a= rea is next to the wetlands. Is it n= ext to the wetlands or (inaudible)?=

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Mr. Rameikas: = Next to it I believe.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> It says fully drained (inaudible) = which have been graded, filled, or otherwise altered to generally less than 20 in= ches down I believe it says it was about 20 feet. Yea, at the bottom of Page 2, it a= ppears that about 20 feet of this fill extends into an inland/wetland area.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: 20 square feet?

Mr. Rameikas: = It says 20 feet, not s= quare feet.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: There’s no silt = fence or hay bales?

Mr. Rameikas: = There is silt fence.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: When I went to the pro= perty I told him to put that until they decide (inaudible).

Mr. Duplissie: What are your intentio= ns then?

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rameikas: Just as it says on the application, to just build a yard, to build a playground for my kids, to level the yard, basically what I’ve been planning since I purchased the property.

Mr. Duplissie: How far back from the = house is the edge of the fill?

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rameikas: From the back of the h= ouse, to the fill, when it was brought in or the . . . . .

Mr. Duplissie: To where the wetlands = is, you went onto the wetlands, how much distance is that?

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rameikas: From the house to where that fill ends. Maybe from the rear of my house to= the fill, maybe 65 feet.

Mr. Duplissie: Were you planning on bringing in more?

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rameikas: Yes. It’s on the application. I mapped out the= whole area where I proposed, eventually, not all in one time.

Mr. Zawadzki: = At this point (inaudib= le).

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: Yea, but it doesn’t show it.

Mr. Rafey: The plan doesn’t= show where I should draw on the map, I have no idea where n it.

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: On the letter that you have does it show it a little better on that drawing?

Mr. Zawadzki: = Yea (inaudible).<= /o:p>

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: It shows the house.

Mr. Rameikas: = No, that’s the garage. The house isn’t actually on the map, the map is prior.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: All we can do tonight is accept the application and then go look at i= t.

Mr. Duplissie: I don’t want to = walk that pond.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Zawadzki: We can’t make a decision tonight, it’s a new application,= and he complied with what Moosa asked him to do, get the wetlands defined by a = soil scientist and (inaudible) put the silt fence in.

Mr. Duplissie: And there’s no m= ore fill coming in for right now?

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rameikas: No, not at this point, no.

Mr. Rafey: (Inaudible.)

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rameikas: I just had one other thing that I would like to present, is that next door to me there is a lot which is fully wooded and on the right hand side = of that lot, I brought some digital pictures that I took that I’d like to present to you. About 15 feet= from my property line there’s a large drainage pipe (inaudible) and there’s also a large sink hole which I’m sure you’ve seen before, and it basically washes all the rain that comes down the corner of Colonial and Morro through my front yard, down through here, it washes away= the curbing and also that pipe emits water, and if you look at the map drawn by= the soil scientist and Ray’s report, I have basically dry soil throughout= my whole yard, except for this small fish shaped area, where if you walk the property it drains this way and over and that water from that drainage moves into my property and it causes the wet condition. In the report it basically, primar= ily my yard, the soils are very deep and well drained, other soils holllis are sha= llow and well drained, but this small area which is considered the wetlands . . = . .

Mr. Duplissie: This is that corner he= re?

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rameikas: Right. 15 feet about fr= om my property line and then the sink hole is right next to it here and then also there’s a picture across the street from me on Colonial, there’= s an older woman, I’m not even sure if she lives there anymore, there̵= 7;s a large ditch dug through her front yard, and at the end of her property, diagonal from where that drainage pipe sits, there’s also curbing removed, a large pile of dirt, and it looks as though some sort of drainage work was done there that may connect to that pipe, I’m not absolutely positive of what it is.

Mr. Duplissie: Drain across the stree= t that catches the water from the inside of Colonial and comes across the street a= nd drains right here, and that’s the pipe that you’re talking abou= t, 15 feet away, right?

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rameikas: Yes., and then . . . . .

Mr. Jones: From the road drainage= ?

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rameikas: Yes.

      &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    Many people talking at once (inaudible).

Mr. Rafey:   I can go and look at t= his.

Mr. Rameikas: = I’ve had a coupl= e of cars in my yard. From my expe= rience of having lived there and done some clearing, there is many deer there, I h= ave a dog and children, I want to keep the ticks back and the prior homeowner w= as an older guy and he really didn’t keep up with the outside of the home and it’s basically growing back into the woods, so I did extensive removal of brush and thickets to just, I still can’t see part of my h= ouse on the left hand side, but I did notice that drainage, especially in the Spring, the water flows through there and then it takes a right hand turn o= nto my property and it’s like the report states, my property is basically= dry except for that little area where it leaches from the drainage on the prope= rty.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Duplissie: If it wasn’t for the road drainage over there he probably wouldn’t have wetlands (inaudible).&= nbsp; I don’t know who owns that piece in the middle.

Mr. Rameikas: = The gentleman next doo= r, I believe his name is Hart, but the property was recently sold. I called Key Pros Realtors when it= was on the market and I asked if it included the lot next door and they said ye= s, but it was something that could never be developed, so apparently they were aware of the drain and the wetlands situation caused by the drain running i= nto the property.

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: We can look at this.

Mr. Rameikas: = So you’ll Table = it until the next Meeting?

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: Yes, the Commission wa= nts to see the property. I will send= you a copy of the next meeting agenda.

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         MOTION:       (Mr. Duplissie, sec. Ms. Russ) to Table Application #538 of Kevin Rameikas for deposition of fill and grading within upland review area at 434 Colonial Street, Oakville, CT.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Discussion:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         MOTION:       (Mr. Duplissie, sec. Mr. Beauchamp) to Schedule a Site Walk for Application #538= of Kevin Rameikas for deposition of fill and grading within upland review area= at 434 Colonial Street, Oakville, CT.

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Discussion:       None<= o:p>

&nb= sp;

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

7.  &n= bsp;      Old Business

A.      =            Frank Stack Application to Amend the Existing CCIWA Permit #529 concerning an existing access way/driveway at 300 Smith Pond Ro= ad, Watertown, CT.

Mr. Rafey: This is a memo from = Chuck Berger regarding those (inaudible).

Mr. Zawadzki: <= /b> Going to run down (inaudible).=

Mr. Berger:= As requested I did some research o= n the aerial photos of the site in question. I looked at the 1934 photos, the 1951, 1970, and 1990 photos and I did not se= e an accessway or driveway at the location that it exists now in any of those photos. I do have 1951 and 19= 70 photos here with me because I realize they don’t copy very well, and = did get these copies from the State Library if anyone wants to take a look at t= hem.

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Frank Stack, Applicant

Mr. Stack: I’d like to take a look also.

Mr. Berger: In my previous memo that went out w= ith the packet, I indicated in the 1934 photo, the copy is available on the internet, it’s hard to tell. It’s an aerial photo the interpretation is a little (inaudible). While I was at t= he Library picking up these photos I looked at the actual photo and it doesn’t appear to be an access way (inaudible).

Mr. Duplissie: It looks like it’s clearly defined, the driveway up to the house.

Mr. Berger:= That’s basically what I was = using as a comparison. On some of t= hem you can see a pathway, a walkway to the front o the house.

Mr. Duplissie:<= /b> And you can see right down to the = pond, you can see the pathway all the way back to the pond. On this one.

Mr. Berger: The 1951 one?

Mr. Zawadzki: <= /b> Let the record show that they are examining the aerial photos in detail.

Mr. Berger: That’s the 1970 one.

Mr. Zawadzki: (Inaudible.)&nb= sp; Mr. Stack, just so we have it on the record, would you give us a bri= ef summary of what has transpired to date on this application?

Mr. Stack: All the way from the beginning again?=

Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, since you resubmitted or submitted the application.

Mr. Stack: Basically I cleaned out a garbage dump that̵= 7;s been there for the better part of 100 years.&nb= sp; I’ve looked at the aerial photos here also and I can’t m= ake heads or tails of whatever, and it’s basically where . . . . . it loo= ks like it would be the tree line there also, I cannot see the existing well t= hat’s there either. There’s s= till garbage in there, they can still do whatever they want. These photos prove nothing to me whatsoever. I wish they did, = I wish they could clearly define it over there, but not one pic doesn’t do anything for me.

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All I have done is rem= ove an outhouse there that flowed into the pond, with running water from the wells, that flushed them into the pond. I cleaned up the area, improved the quality of the wetlands, that’s all I’ve ever done there, and yes, I’m within the 50 foot buffer zo= ne of the wetlands but where it’s been clearly marked and flagged by a s= oil scientist, I am not in the wetlands whether they are on my property or the Y’s property. It’= s not clearly defined. My engineer,= Gary Giordano said he would get up there and just put it on the map and flagged those flags, he would have done it for the meeting but he’s very busy. I got another soil scie= ntist in the mean time who originally, cause the Town lost my soil report, I̵= 7;m assuming the girl was who did it somebody local cause she’s on the map. I jumped through every h= oop that I was supposed to jump through. All I know is there is some shenanigans going on, I don’t even want to get into that, I would like this thing to end tonight, if not, we’ll just go one step farther and that’s . . . . .<= /span>

Mr. Zawadzki: Has the area been flagged?

Mr. Stack: Yes, the area was flagged at the last wetlands meeting. When we came here be= fore I had the wetlands area flagged which is on the Y’s part and I’m assuming a little bit is on my part, because there is a barbed wire fence w= hen you were out in the field, it was still embedded in the trees, farther in t= he bushes, but you have to get really close to get through the prickers and everything to get in there, so that’s only from the soil scientist th= ere.

Mr. Polletta returned to the meeting at this tim= e, 10:30 p.m.

Mr. Zawadzki: Well as I see it we have a couple of choices. We can leave things as is and rest= rict any additional activity. We a= lso have a suggestion to have a third party come in and look at the potential impacts of the access road as it exists right now, at no cost to you, and t= hat’s another option. We have until= next week to make a decision on this without any additional extensions. How does everyone feel? Another suggestion would be to ret= urn it to its previous condition by putting in topsoil over top of what you have t= here now and reseeding it and not using it as an access road.<= /p>

Mr. Stack: But the bottom line is it was an access road and= I bought it as an access road, and the part that I connected that was in ques= tion before, connected up to Sm= ith Pond Road, is outside the 50 foot buffer of the wetlands. The other part was = nothing but garbage, and trucks, and bottles, and rusty stuff, with trees growing up through them and you can go out there and still take a look. I agreed not to touch that. I talked to the Y and they said I = was doing a nice job, go ahead, but I told them I would not do that with the wetlands part of it, and again I’m going to bring up what I heard 3 t= imes today, is the health and safety issue of kids who go down there and play th= ere along with the Y camp, it’s on their side, I said I would clean it up= , and it’s almost all cleaned up, but like I said there’s probably 2 = or 3 more pickup trucks full of broken glass, bottles, and everything, which was generated from the previous owner who I bought it from, their farmhouse.

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Mr. Zawadzki: <= /b> So actually all of the debris you’re cleaning out is actually on the Y property, correct?

Mr. Stack: That’s what it would be that’s left right now to be cleaned out.

Mr. Zawadzki: <= /b> Why didn’t the Y have an inte= rest in cleaning it out themselves?

Mr. Stack: Oh, they do.&nb= sp; I’ve made them aware of what was going on here and they said do whatever the Commission feels that they want done on it. But as far as putting it back and seeding it, the access road, I can move it another 30 feet and be out of the buffer and make a bigger cut in the road and there would be more impact to = the wetlands than what was already there. It’s not like I’m going to contend that I did absolutely nothing wrong. Yes, I was wor= king within the 50 foot buffer. The wetlands weren’t on my side. The little part that is flagged and, I’m assuming is on my sid= e, it doesn’t make one difference or the other because I am within 20 fe= et of where I work, with a machine.

Mr. Polletta: I’m sorry, I had to leave for an emergency, but now this is the road that (inaudible)?

Mr. Duplissie: That’s the driveway up to the existing farmhouse.

Mr. Polletta: (Inaudible) no, the access that we have now?

Mr. Stack: Right, the access that we have now, there’= s a well inside there along with that was feeding the back cottages there that = is within, that access road that was maintained and whatever there, and there = was also stone walls that were clearly defined that are zigzagged on that proje= ct that you can’t tell through them aerial photos either cause they̵= 7;re in the wooded area there. The= only way you can tell my property line to the Y is the barbed wire that is embed= ded 6, 8, 12 inches inside the big trees. You could face it off with the monuments, everything is flagged up there. If you want to go up t= here and walk, let me know I’ll meet you up there. On the third party coming up there= , let me know, that’s your call, I don’t have a problem, but I am in = no way going to take something that I bought that was existing there and put it back 4 inches of topsoil over the top, I’m just not going to do that. The place is established. We don’t e= ven use the particular thing. As = far as like saying there was no zoning permits or applications pending whatsoever, since our last meeting here, from April the applications that were supposed= ly lost were also given to me o the zoning part. Now I’m telling you I just don’t like being played with and I’ve been played with over here with this particular piece of property.&nb= sp; The only thing that I have over there is having a neighbor across an= d I don’t even want to make assumptions so I won’t say, but I don’t want to have games played with me, and if the Commission wants = to find out what the truth is, I’d just as soon have it end and let bygo= nes be bygones, but if I have to go the other way, I’ll go the other way.=

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Mr. Polletta: Right here is another example of another individ= ual (inaudible). Mr. Stack, I hop= e you understand my concern. Once y= ou do it for one, (inaudible). And = I feel bad, I don’t know what to do. I feel like I’m caught in the middle and I’m trying to h= elp you, but it seems that something was done, and there is a code, and against= the regulations (inaudible).

Mr. Stack: I was here tonight and this guy said he did know, and he said he was aware of what was going on there, and as far as ticks, whatever . . . . .

Mr. Polletta: <= /b> But he didn’t know that he wasn’t supposed to (inaudible).

Mr. Stack: There’s a difference of a dump that’s been there and cars and everything, I mean it’s a danger to kids and a camp that’s right next door, and the property that I bought, was the person who put the garbage on their side, and all I did was clean up, no mo= re, no less, made it, I didn’t canopy the trees, the road the way it̵= 7;s cut in there. You can see it’s very clearly defined on the inside, and maybe that’s why t= hese trees, on there don’t show it.

Mr. Polletta: And I understand the access road (inaudible).

Mr. Stack:<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> That’s exactly what I’= ve done since we’ve talked.

Mr. Polletta: I’m just saying that if it was used for a farm, then you should put something over the top of that so it’s not = like a road.

Mr. Zawadzki: Well that’s the part that’s in the buffer area. The rest of it t= hat he’s mentioned coning off of Smith Pond Road is about 80 feet away, so that’s not under our jurisdiction.

Mr. Stack: On top of it on the other side, if you throw top= soil or you do whatever, and I have no intention of using it personally, like I = said I’m not going to tell you on the personal side what’s going on there but again if I was going to do something bad to the wetlands, impact = the pond, I would have went in for a 5 lot subdivision, not a 1 lot subdivision, and gave up 10% of the property when the Town wanted fees in lieu of, and J= udy Wick wanted new property okay?

Mt. Polletta: <= /b> (Inaudible.)

Mr. Frank:<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> But I just want to tell you that&#= 8217;s what it is though.

Mr. Duplissie: That has no bearing on this (inaudible).

Mr. Stack: Yes, it most certainly has plenty of bearing and= you have no idea. Mr. Duplissie, = can I ask you one more thing on the Commission side of it over here, (inaudible) = Ken Davino on the (inaudible)?

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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PAGE 50

Mr. Duplissie:<= /b> That has nothing to do with it.

Mr. Stack:<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> Yes, it most certainly does. You’ve had physical altercat= ions with employees of mine, you refused to recuse yourself of this, since you’= ve left Industrial Development I have not had one problem with Ken Davino, we = get along fine, so it seems to me you might have been the big problem and so fa= r I see the Board (inaudible).

Mr. Polletta: <= /b> (Inaudible) I think I believe that (inaudible). I’m talking about maybe mulch, something that doesn’t look like a roadway, you can’t (inaudible) like that (inaudible). I think that this (inaudible). (Tape #3, Side B ended – may= have missed some.) I think I reali= ze that and then (inaudible).

Mr. Stack: I don’t think what you’re proposing = is a bad idea except that it was existing and . . . . .

Mr. Polletta: It’s just (inaudible) looks like a road (inaudible). Try to work with= me and I’m saying you’ve got to cover that with something that doesn’t look like . . . .

Mr. Stack: I have 800 feet of frontage on there, it wouldn’t bother me one way or the other to be 50 feet outside of the buffer zone whatsoever so you and I wouldn’t have this problem.<= /o:p>

Mr. Zawadzki: (Inaudible.)

Mr. Stack: Yea, it is done, and it’s a thousand times better than it looked, 1,000 times better.= Like you said, to leave the rest of the glass . . . .

Mr. Polletta: I would recommend that (inaudible). Mulch on top of this or some (inaudible).

Mr. Stack: Maybe I’ll throw some wood chips on there.=

Mr. Duplissie: = It should be loomed and seeded so t= hat once it grows back it becomes stabilized.

Mr. Stack: It is stabilized. There are little trees growing in between the stones from nobody driving up there and I’m sure . . . .<= o:p>

Mr. Polletta: <= /b> I think it should be as natural as possible like before, and without (inaudible).

Mr. Stack: If it was as natural as before I would bring four triaxle loads of garbage . . = . . .

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Mr. Polletta: I’m talking about natural to look like a f= arm.

Mr. Stack: = It does look natural like a farm pa= ss way now.

Mr. Polletta: I’m just saying you have to put something = over the top of those stones. This= Board is trying to work with you, we’re not trying to go against you, but w= hen we set an example over there and not build anything on it.

Mr. Stack: = I don’t want to argue with you again. My kids, and I’ve heard 3 safety issues come up with people in their back yards, and the kids issue is that it’s a big issue and whatever if I touch the wetlands I would put the wetlands back, but I clearly defined it. So I’m outside of the 50 foot buffer. The soil scientist cl= early defined that, so I’m within 20 feet so I need another 30 feet to move= , it doesn’t make a lot of sense to move the driveway. If you want some wood chips on the= re, I’ll sprinkle some wood chips on there.

Mr. Polletta: I’m talking about 3 or 4 inches.

Mr. Zawadzki: And no, we’re not asking you to move the (inaudible).

Mr. Polletta: <= /b> But to move the road (inaudible). I understand you cannot use that (= inaudible).

Mr. Stack: When was the last time you looked at this?<= /o:p>

Mr. Polletta: <= /b> At the field trip (inaudible).=

Mr. Stack: Why don’t you look at it one more time, co= me up there, look at the trees, look at the flags that you required me to do, = but nobody has been out there.

Mr. Polletta: (Inaudible.)

Mr. Zawadzki: Well we have until t= he 22^nd and we could meet next week.

Mr. Polletta: I don’t have a= ny problems if you want to go one more time (inaudible).

Mr. Stack: I don’t mean t= o be thick headed whatsoever but I think a lot of these people here, when they’re coming in, like if they have kids, back yards, whatever, where it’s really a true wetlands to me is where it supports habitat, ducks, wildlife, they’re going to breed.&nb= sp; Like on Franson Road, you have people, between Gustafson’s and= the dirt paper street, but there’s more garbage dumped there, pretty much= on a weekly basis, and I’m talking huge stuff.

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Mr. Zawadzki: We’ve got to (inaudible). We have to take = the application that’s presented to us.&= nbsp; But yes, we can go look at it. As I said we have an offer by a third party who’s not involved= in Watertown at all from the Northwest Conservation Commission to come out and look at it and do you think he’d be able to come on Saturday?

Mr. Rafey: I can ask him.<= /o:p>

Mr. Stack: It’s possible,= but I’ve also had Commissioners come up and try to facilitate a sale of my property to somebody else other than who I’m talking to, so I’m kind of feeling like I buy it, it’s my property, I’ll negotiate what I want to negotiate, but not have Commission members or a third party = come in and . . . . .

Mr. Zawadzki: Well he’s a conservation commissioner and it has to deal with observing of the impact of what’s been done on the wetlands and it has nothing to do with the sa= le of the property. He works for= a non-profit organization.

Mr. Stack: I’m not sure i= f I need somebody, I’ve already had 2 soil scientists over there. If you people want to come out, you’re more than welcome. I don’t want to bring in 3^rd and 4^th parties, I w= ant this problem to end, it’s been going on the better part of a year, 18 months for a 1 lot subdivision.

Mr. Duplissie: I have a simple soluti= on, put 4 inches of soil on there and seed it and . . . . .

Mr. Stack: The simple solution = to me with you is if you would just have recused yourself, and I’m sorry, that’s the way I’m going to be. When you have physical altercation= s with family members and somebody else, you should not be here.=

Mr. Polletta: We shouldn’t m= ix up with other things. We’r= e all here trying to do a job (inaudible).

Mr. Zawadzki: Okay. So we need a Motion to take a Site= Walk on Saturday.

A discussion took place regarding the site walk and whether or not to hold a special meeting. Many people were talking at once &= #8211; very hard to understand.

MOTION:  =      (Ms. Russ, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Schedule a Site Walk and Special Meeting for F= rank Stack Application to Amend the Existing CCIWA Permit #529 concerning an existing access way/driveway at 300 Smith Pond Road, Watertown, CT.

Discussion:       None<= o:p>

MOTION PASSED UNANIMOU= SLY

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8.  &n= bsp;      New Business

&nb= sp;

A.        Heritage Development Group request for preliminary discussion on Heritage Woods Acti= ve Adult Retirement Community development.

&nbs= p;

  &nbs= p;         Bob Houlihan, Heritage Development Group

  &nbs= p;         Mr. Houlihan: I think we were in onc= e before, we passed out our picture books, and also to Planning and Zoning. We’ve had a couple of meetin= gs with them and we have a Public Hearing scheduled for October 5^th= to adopt a regulation that would permit something like this, which is an approximately 350 unit active development retirement community on 195 acres. This site is the Pappa= razzo/ Sperry property that was previously organized by the Trust for Public Land = to be purchased as open space and went to referendum and failed at referendum = for the purchase of open space and we’re here before you to try and get an early start at looking at the project; also possibly to schedule a site wal= k, I would assume November would be best, but that’s up to you before you = get into the Winter. I’m he= re to explain anything you’d like to know, on a preliminary basis about the project.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: Is part of this in Middlebury?=

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: There is a piece of land in Middlebury, yes.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: But all the housing is in Watertown= ?

&nbs= p;

  &nbs= p;         Mr. Houlihan: Correct.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: How much existing into wetland area= s by square footage.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: There’s 44 acres of wetlands = on this site.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, but how mu= ch are you encroaching on?

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: We estimate tha= t this plan, and I would say that most of the wetland crossing here are pretty much where they have to be, hopefully we can eliminate one of them, but we’= ;re looking at about ¾ of an acre of impact. This is a category 2 permit. Over 5,000, under an acre.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: Now is that per= manent loss or temporary excavation?

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: Permanent loss.=

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&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: Building units = or crossings?

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: Mostly crossing= s, there are no units in the wetlands. If you’d like I can run through, it’s a little hard to see what’s wet and what isn’t.&nbs= p; I apologize, this really isn’t a drawing that was prepared for your specific . . . .

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: Well we’d= want to see that on the site walk.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: Yea, but if you= want I can walk you through, show you where the wetlands are and where the wetla= nd crossings are. This is the en= d of New Wood Road, which has a signalized intersection at Stop & Shop, whic= h if we do a site walk I suggest that’s where we meet cause you can park t= here and you’re not in anybody’s way. There is an existing trail that ru= ns through this property. This i= s a piece that we anticipate donating as public open space. There is a large wetlands complex = here, which is associated with this wetlands complex here, which is associated wi= th this wetland corridor here, and here you have Wattles Brook, there’s = also a wetlands here. Those are th= e wetland areas. Our main entrance is u= p here off of Bunker Hill Road and there is a pond, this should be (inaudible) as = open water. There’s an exist= ing pond here and there’s an existing crossing that we’re going to = try and land our main road on. So that’s an existing crossing that will probably be bigger than what it= is now when we get done, because it’s just sort of . . . .

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: The pond is not= on your property?

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: Actually part o= f it is. This is a piece of land that’s kind of out of it, it’s not subject of the application r= ight here. There’s also, Wat= tles Brook, there’s a wetlands, a little peninsula that comes right up to Bunker Hill Road at this point and so there would be a small crossing there= . At the small crossing there’= s a completely new crossing. Here= there is an old farm road that we’re following, but it really doesn’t look like a road. It doesn= 217;t show up on the wetland report as having existing fill there that we’re going across, so that is a wetland crossing. There is also a wetland crossing u= p here which we are hoping to eliminate. We’re kind of working through with the Town Engineer, looking = at layout, we have to talk to the Fire Marshall, we have other people looking = at it, but hopefully we can eliminate this crossing. There is an existing crossing here= that we’re following. There are two exis= ting crossings that we’re following, here . . . . .

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: Now when you say existing crossing, is that a path, a road, a trail, what?=

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&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: They are more l= ike roads. This is actually a lit= tle dam here. The pond was create= d by the farmer Panilaitis, it was an ice pond.= He put like a dam there.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Duplissie: There’s = all kinds of trails on that property. You can actually go down and drive a jeep through there.<= /span>

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: There’s a= lot of activity in here, I think it’s a famous spot for kids.<= /span>

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: I walked it whe= n the Town was looking to purchase it.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: There are no mo= re crossings over into here although there is a contemplated emergency access here that I don’t know if they’re going to make us do it or not, I’m pretty sure, you wouldn’t seek that.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: Not us. (Inaudible.)

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: This is Middleb= ury Road.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Duplissie: And the tree f= arm is right over here, right, coming back down Middlebury Road?=

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: I’m not s= ure where the tree farm is.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Duplissie: You’re n= ot familiar with the area?

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: No, I’m not. Is that in Middlebury?

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Duplissie: On Middlebury = Road, on that side of the road. I can’t tell what’s north and south on that map. The west side here coming down on = this part of the map.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: That’s pr= etty much it.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: Well in general= I think it’s safe to say we want to see minimal encroachment and the impact on the wetlands and we’d like to see alternatives that you considered or= are still considering. And as far= as exits onto Middlebury Road, that’s not our jurisdiction. That’s Planning and Zoning a= nd the Fire Department. As far as we’re concerned the fewer crossings of the wetlands the better, and if you haven’t already you might want to consider the bridges, culvert, = that sort of thing. We had one a c= ouple of years ago up on Fox Hollow and we used the prefab concrete culvert type = of thing.

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&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: There is an exi= sting box culvert on Wattles Brook, it’s all collapsed. People have, there was garbage aro= und the pond, they probably cleaned that up.&n= bsp; There is people in and out of here, there is hunting going on. I mean it’s kind of crazy.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, there was = that other (inaudible) bridge.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: Yea, I would no= t want to do that. But we’re g= oing, we’ve hired a good engineer and a good ecologist and we’ve done= all of the wetland studies so we’re obviously, it’s an Army Corps P= ermit so we’re going to wind up doing what we’re told I think. We recognize that and we want to minimize it. We’d like = to think that this project is being very environmentally sound. My background is in environmental = design so from a standpoint of land use relative to what it’s currently zoned for, it has much less impact, much more environmentally friendly, thereR= 17;s a ton of open space that will be dedicated, both private and public, and we think it’s good for the Town.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: And you underst= and that something like this, especially this large of an area, you want to try= and keep the greenways connected so that any wildlife can move around without having to go through somebody’s garage?

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Duplissie: Yea, there is a large deer population in that area coming fr= om Middlebury that comes down and through the pond area and crosses Bunker Hill and then comes back up into Oakville. That’s a large (inaudible).

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: Plus it’s= going to provide a lot more food for the deer.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Duplissie: It is. Access way.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: It’s the = little critters I get concerned about because they get frustrated and they donR= 17;t eat bushes, the deer will love that.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Duplissie: Don’t ge= t me wrong, it’s a nice, I see it like on a golf course, you see the lawn right down to the pond, but unfortunately for wildlife that’s not a g= ood thing, so on these pond areas, everybody always goes right up to them and y= ou can’t do that obviously.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: Or you shouldn’t.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Duplissie: So we’d = like to see as much setback from that pond as possible.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: Yes, we’ll we’re adhering strictly to the 50 foot setback and also there are som= e of these houses that are kind of towing the line on that 50 foot setback, so we’re going to look at the area of disturbance.

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&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Duplissie: You don’= t have to adhere to the 50 foot line. You can go a lot shorter if you want, you can go 75 or 100, I mean we don’= ;t mind.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: Well in some ar= eas we have. What we’re doing = here is our wetlands consultant has advised us as to how to go about protecting = the wetlands, Shoemaker he used, presentation he used, hopefully you’ll be happy with it. There’s = a lot of areas where there is a tremendous amount of protection going on, in some= of these more high quality wetlands. But there is a couple for spots where they kind of have their foot on the line and I think we’re going to try and limit that as much as possible. Sometimes you kind = of get forced into it. I think there’s, actually we’re redoing a product up here based on Plan= ning and Zoning so it’s more of a single family type product up here and t= here might be 1 or 2 where there is just no other place to put it. But hopefully we can limit those i= nstances to less than 15% of the product types.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: So along those = lines too you might want to consider if you haven’t already, (inaudible) of interest to the public would be have a recreation, like a hiking trail (inaudible) keep the green area connected.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: Yea, a major co= mponent of our project is a hiking trail, not urban concrete sidewalk. We do have some sidewalks that we contemplate in the more high traffic areas, in areas where we believe it’s appropriate from a planning standpoint, but most of it is wooded trail systems.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, stone dust= , wood chips, etc.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: This is a real = nice trail right in here. This is = some beautiful conservation land, and that would be open to the public and it’s a big contiguous piece that’s going to wrap all the way ar= ound up into here and that’s about 25% of the site, so the contiguous natu= re of that we think is important. Also within the development itself, the wetland quarters obviously create greenw= ay but there’s also areas of what we call private open space, where we w= ill deed restrict any future development in there.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: Now does that Middlebury part abut some land that is owned by the Middlebury Land Trust?<= o:p>

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: Yes, this is contiguous to the Land Trust so from a . . . . .

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: So that’ = even better.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: And that’= s kind of why we did it, also the nature of that portion of the ground is a better conservation area than it is housing. So that’s pretty much it.&nbs= p; I don’t know when or if you want to schedule a Site Walk before the Winter, it’s entirely up to you, you’re certainly welcome.<= o:p>

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&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: Well I think we’ve got enough for our October site walk, so we can do it in Novemb= er. When are you planning on making an application?

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: Well I’m = being told that you really can’t make a wetland application until you’= ;ve got your site plan really put together.&nb= sp; And we don’t want to go through an incomplete application, and= my guess is that I don’t believe I’m going to get an approval on October 5^th just cause it doesn’t seem like that ever happ= ens, so my guess is that I’m going into November with Planning and Zoning before I have the reg, then I have to land the reg on the property and begi= n my site planning process, and I’ll bet it takes a good 3 months to put a good site plan together for this size project so we’re into Spring. But part of the problem is if we do everything one after the other, it would never get done, so we’d like= to try and start earlier and get as much, some of other stuff I think we can l= ook at. Where we’re crossin= g the wetlands it’s pretty much etched in stone for the most part, so we can start looking at that stuff now, if you’re willing to do that. I mean it’s a big site. Anything I can get done now . . . = . .

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: We’ve got= the same problem because we have time constraints, so many days . . . .

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: But on an infor= mal basis. So by the time we do c= ome in it’s not we have to reinvent the wheel. You’ve seen it, you know that I’m talking about, so if you’re willing to do that that might be helpful.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Duplissie: We can always = have a site visit too, and it doesn’t have to be the same Saturday. If you’re doing an October 8= ^th site walk, we can do the following Saturday for just this one property.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: True, but the o= ther thing about a site walk is it’s more beneficial if you have specifics= .

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Duplissie: Well he said he basically has the wetland crossing already, pretty much etched in stone.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: There’s 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 crossings, 4 of which are just about etched in stone, so we can flag them in the field and you can look at them and talk about them.
&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Duplissie: Once the leaves are down it= 217;s nice to see the property too, otherwise you’re walking and you can on= ly see 5 feet of woods in front of you too.

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: So maybe weR= 17;ll walk it in November and I guess we’ll stay in touch with Moosa.<= /o:p>

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&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Rafey: You can schedule the site walk at t= he October meeting for November.

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Houlihan: Should I come back in October to do that?

&nbs= p;

        &= nbsp;   Mr. Rafey: I will send you a letter.

&nb= sp;

9.         = Communications and Bills

&nb= sp;

A.        Connecticut Association of Conservation & Inlands Wetlands Commission 28^{th
Annual Meeting and Environmental Conference, Saturday, November 5, 2005.}

&n= bsp;           = ;           Mr. Rafey: This is a very good seminar. If anyone wants to g= o, let me know as soon as possible.

&n= bsp;            = ;           Mr. Zawadzki: This has to be = in by the 20^th of October. (Tape #4, Side A ended – may have missed some.)

&n= bsp;            = ;           Mr. Duplissie: I have a question about the applica= tion for Heritage Hill, if it’s 350 units, but it’s only one lot (inaudible) application fee, we have a subdivision fee, and then we have “x” amount per lot, which is how much?

&n= bsp;           = ;           Mr. Rafey: $50.00 per lot.

&n= bsp;           = ;           Mr. Duplissie: So now will th= at be $50.00 per unit?

&n= bsp;            = ;           Mr. Rafey: That’s a good question. How do you want to = do it?

&n= bsp;            = ;           Mr. Duplissie: I want it per = unit, cause they’re going to make millions on it, so I don’t think, it’s one of the few times we have a chance to grab some funds for the Town.

            &n= bsp;           Mr. Rafey: It’s the same as if somebody= was building a house.

&n= bsp;           =         &= nbsp;   Mr. Jones: Aren’t we in= that process right now, revising the regs? Is that all done?

&n= bsp;            = ;           Mr. Rafey: Hopefully by that time it will be done. I sent it to the Town Attorney for his review.

&n= bsp;            = ;           Mr. Zawadzki: Who said it was based on per lot?<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> I mean it could be per unit.<= /o:p>

&n= bsp;            = ;           Mr. Rafey: No, for a subdivision we charge $2= 50, plus $50 per lot, and then $30 for the State of Connecticut. This is not a (inaudible), it̵= 7;s like one parcel, with 350 units on it.&nbs= p; We can change $50 per unit.

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&n= bsp;            = ;           Mr. Duplissie: $17,500 by my calculations.

MOTION:<= span style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'>       (Mr. Duplissie, sec. Mr. Polletta) to accept and file Item 9A as presented.=

Discussion:       None<= o:p>

MOTION PASSED UNANIMOU= SLY

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10.       Repor= ts from Officers and Committees

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  &n= bsp;         None

11.       Repor= ts from Staff

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A.        Status of the On-Going Subdivisions

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None=

12.     &n= bsp; Public Participation

  &nbs= p;         None

13.       Adjou= rnment

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        &= nbsp;   MOTION:       (Mr. Polletta, sec. Ms. Russ) to Adjourn the Regular Meeting at 11:12 p.m.<= /o:p>

  &nbs= p;         Discussion:       None<= o:p>

  &nbs= p;         MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

  &nbs= p;         Regular Meeting Adjourned at 11:12 p.m.

&n= bsp;

Respect= fully submitted,

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Ronald = Jones, Secretary

Conserv= ation Commission/

Inland Wetlands Agency

  &nbs= p;         _________________= _________________

      &nb= sp;     Lynn M. LaForme, Minutes Secretary