beagenda

MINUTES

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CONSERVA= TION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY

SPECIAL MEETING

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PLANNING= AND ZONING OFFICE - CONFERENCE ROOM

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2005 - 5:00 PM

PRESENT: = ; &n= bsp; = ; Bernard Beauchamp

= &nb= sp; = &nb= sp; Glenn Duplissie

= &nb= sp; = &nb= sp; Ron Jones, Secretary

= &nb= sp; = &nb= sp; Joseph Polletta

= &nb= sp; = &nb= sp; James Zawadzki, Chairman

ABSENT: = ; &n= bsp; = ; = Charles Thermer

= ; &n= bsp; = &nb= sp; Edwin Undercuffler, Vice Chairman

ALTERNATES PRESENT: = ; Martha Sturgis

ALTERNATES ABSENT: = ; Peter Peluso

= &nb= sp; = &nb= sp; Denise Russ

OTHERS PRESENT: &n= bsp; = ; Moosa Rafey, Assistant Zoning Enforcement Officer

1. = Call Meeting To Order

Mr. Zawadzki, Chairman, called the Regular Meeting to order at 5:02 p.m.

2. &nb= sp; Roll Call

Mr. Jones, Secretary, executed the Roll Call.

Mr. Zawadzki, Chairman, asked Ms. Sturgis to sit in for Mr. Thermer, in his absence.

3. &nb= sp; Frank Stack Request to Amend the CCIWA Permit #526 concerning an Existing Accessway?Driveway at 300 Smith Pond Road, Watertown<= /p>

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A decision is required by September 22, 2005.

= ; Mr. Zawadzki: Fr= ank, do you have anything you’d like to say at this point?

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Mr. Stack: = No, whatever you decide is right th= ere.

Mr. Zawadzki: Well I didn’t know if you had anything new. We were all basically out there at Mr. Stack’s property on Saturday and we kind of agreed that = the best approach was to kind of leave well enough alone, cease and desist as it is, and he agreed to put some additional mulch in the form of wood chips al= ong the berm of the road as it exists today, and that if any other continuing cleaning of the debris, trash, junk from the wetlands, which is actually YM= CA property was going to be done, it would be done by hand without the use of = any mechanical machinery such as backhoes, bulldozers, trucks, and that sort of thing.

Mr. Polletta: <= /b> I just want to add that Mr. Stack a= t the end, where you’ve got the driveway towards the beach area, where you’re crossing that well, you said you’re not going to use it,= to go across that area because it is a well, there is some wetlands, but the a= mount of mulch that you’re going to put on the site so you could put back anything that grows to the edge of the gravel area, am I correct?

Mr. Stack: = Right.

Mr. Polletta: In other words like you’re not going to, you’re going to try not to open up that area that goes to the beach a= rea?

Mr. Stack: No, I’m not, that’s not going to be touched at all.

Mr. Polletta: <= /b> Okay, because there were some issue= s on that field trip. One was that= it was agreed that you would put some additional mulch so to create like a berm from the edge of the road where the gravel is now so no other disturbance or anything else we don’t want it to remove anymore, but then where the = road goes right through toward the beach area, that would be left alone so no ca= rs probably (inaudible).

Mr. Stack: = That will not be wide enough.<= /o:p>

Mr. Rafey: = Only wood chips, but not soil.=

Mr. Polletta: No, because we felt the soil and everything else will create more erosion. I m= ean there was a consensus at that time, after a long discussion, we were there = for a long time trying to go over this, so probably the gravel, there was a (inaudible) at that time so the gravel would be better than dirt, going in = to the wetlands, but (inaudible) is that we have to create a berm and this ber= m is going to be built so wood chips so not to disturbed the edge of the wetlands and you’re not crossing going all the way to the beach area.

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Mr. Stack: Correct.

Mr. Rafey: = And Mr. Stack, whenever you want to= do that, let me know, I will just come and see how you’re doing, to make sure there’s no machinery or other activities.

Mr. Polletta: After we went over this thing is that and I was first going against this but the consensus of the Board was that the more y= ou disturb it, the worse it is, so this is probably the easiest way out to get= out of there. I don’t know = if there is anything else that we can add to this.

Mr. Duplissie: My concern is that it’s going to be used a= s an access way to the back cottages and that you’re going to have all this traffic going back and forth to the rental of the back cottages, cause those are viable cottages. Now you’re going to have, you went from just having a little muddy road that was not u= sed, to now having an access way, a thoroughfare for the Summer traffic for ther= e, so in the Summer time it’s nice when it’s a nice, hard, gravel road, but when it rains it’s not going to be a nice, hard, gravel roa= d, its going to be a muddy road that’s going to be used, and when you ha= ve 4 rented cottages, that have 4 vehicles, 5, 8 vehicles, cause it’s not = just one that goes in, you’re going to have vehicles going in and out every day and that’s my concern.

Mr. Polletta: <= /b> I’m with you, but I don’= ;t know if you went by there now, but all the gravel that he’s put in th= ere, if you go over and disturb that area, I think it will make it worse than if= we (inaudible) because it’s going to be used as an access way.

Mr. Duplissie: So is it being used as an access way for the cot= tages or it is used . . . . .

Mr. Polletta: <= /b> I (inaudible) to the cottages, but = not all the way across where we cross before the well. That area is going to stay as it i= s, and then the area where the gravel is now, is going to be as a passageway but you’re going to create a berm with the wood chips and the wetlands are about 25 feet away, in some cases maybe even 30 feet away, because we made = him flag all the wetlands and do all the study along where the water is, so I don’t know if you went by there or to, it looks pretty stabilized, bu= t if we remove all that stuff, now what will happen, there is a chance between t= he machine and everything to make it worse than it is.

Mr. Zawadzki: One last time, what is your intended use of that= ?

Mr. Stack: = Absolutely not to use it all.<= /o:p>

Mr. Zawadzki: <= /b> Not to access the cottages?

Mr. Stack: = No.

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Mr. Zawadzki: Any other discussion?

Mr. Rafey: = The purpose of this application was just for the first section of the driveway (inaudible) and = the previous application you approved the back part of the driveway. This is the first 20 to 25 feet th= at comes from Smith Pond Road into the driveway, that section was previously approved.

Mr. Duplissie: = Yea, but the section that was previ= ously approved was not approved . . . . .

Mr. Rafey: = Because it wasn’t access to t= he road.

Mr. Duplissie: It was not approved for gravel for him to go in = and gravel the road, so now what you’re doing, this is just for the 25 fe= et from the road that is not wetlands, or setback, so you’re not amending the first one that we gave him that he went in and put within the setback or close to the wetlands, we’re not amending that or changing that, that= we’re giving him permission to do that.

Mr. Zawadzki: No. That was, the consensus was to do anything it’s done and if we went in and took it all out it would be worse off than . . . . .

Mr. Polletta: And whatever the flags are for the wetlands, they’re like about 30 feet away, because you cannot go into= the Y but his property wherever the edge of the road is is about 30 feet or bet= ter where the flags are from the edge of the road. In the beginning I thought the wet= lands were right at the edge of that gravel area, because we didn’t have any studies, but it’s my understanding that there were flags and there we= re flags that went into the woods. I mean we had to go through the poison ivy to get to that area. The wetlands is about 35 feet away= and before it was flagged, I didn’t know, nobody knew, the flags were way= in so basically it’s away from where the edge of the slope is.

Mr. Zawadzki: Anything else?&= nbsp; If there’s no further discussion, we need a Motion to Approve = or Disapprove, as the case may be, for the Amendment to Permit #516 concerning= the existing driveway/driveway at 300 Smith Pond Road, Watertown.

MOTION:       (Ms. Sturgis, sec. Mr. Jones) to Approve Frank Stack’s Request to Amend the CCIWA Permit #526 concerning an Existing Accessway?Driveway at 300 Smith Pond Road, Watertown with the condition that there be no further intrusion by equipment, and not to be used as an access= way to the cottages, and any further removal of debris and engine parts, and so forth must be done manually.

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Dis= cussion:       Mr. Rafey: Who is going to en= force that access to the cottages? = I mean if somebody comes at 10:00 p.m., who is going to see that?

        &= nbsp;           &= nbsp;   Mr. Zawadzki: We’ll jus= t have to take Mr. Stack’s word for it.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Jones:: And you do have a= chain across it at this point.

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=         &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, he’s= got it blocked off.

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=         &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey: (Inaudible) gate t= here.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Polletta: So the conditio= ns are included in the Motion?

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=         &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Rafey: Yes.

In Favor:    &nbs= p;     Mr. Beauchamp, Mr. Jones, Mr. Polletta, Ms. Sturgis, Mr. Zawadzki

Opposed:     = ;    None

Abstained:    &nb= sp;   Mr. Duplissie

MOTION CARRIED (5-0-1)

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4.         = Discussion on a Proposed Waling Trail around Echo Lake

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            Mr. Polletta Recused himself from this Discussion

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        &= nbsp;   Lisa Carew, Recreation Director, Town of Watertown

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      = ;      Ms. Carew: I was just given this today so I put something together very fast, cause I didn’t know I was coming here.

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      = ;     Mr. Rafey: On Friday Mary put this item on the Agenda.&n= bsp; We had a little discussion with the Chairman. She told me to put it on the Agend= a and you would come and discuss it.

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        &= nbsp; Ms. Carew: Back when there was a referendum in 1993 for a park and it was when Veteran̵= 7;s Park was really developed, we also had money in there for Echo Lake and Syl= van Lake and at that time we did have some money and there were some things that happened down there, the new playground, and relatively not a lot of impact= to Echo Lake, but there were some things, and one of them was Milone and MacBroom w= ho were the landscape designers for Veteran’s Park also put together a strictly conceptual walkway plan for around Echo Lake, so this is something that’s been very, very dear to the Park and Rec Commission’s he= art for many, many years. As you = know the park is used mostly for passive recreation at this point, we haven̵= 7;t use it for swimming purposes since 1987, and this would really be something that would enhance the park, you have a lot more development down there bet= ween the condos across the street, and just different things that are going in t= he area, and the Commission feels that this would really bring in a much needed recreational opportunity for the community. Commissioner Russo said it as an underused facility and this would probably increase the usage. I did bring, we’ve had an emergency meeting last week and it was the Park and Rec Commission, along w= ith Mr. Berger, Ms. Barton, and Mr. Cavanaugh.= Mr. Polletta was there with his architects and engineers as well. I have enough copies for everybody= so you can see what direction the Commission went on this. We’ve also been to the last 2 Planning and Zoning Public Hearings on behalf of the Lakeview Estates recommending the Commission, they’re talking right now between the tr= ail or sidewalks. Members of the = Public Works Subcommittee were there, from the Town Council, Ms. Adams and Mr. Primini, and Ms. Adams stated they will be recommending tonight at their meeting that the Council endorse the trail and use money out of the Sidewalk Fund to pay for the sidewalks. How that ends up, I don’t know, we’ll be reading about it in the pa= per.

        &= nbsp; Mr. Zawadzki: They’re going to use Sidewalk= Fund money to build the trail?

        &= nbsp; Ms. Carew: No, not to build the trail. They’ll use the Sidewalk Fund money to build sidewalks along Echo Lake Road or up into the subdivision.

      = ;     Mr. Zawadzki: So they’re talking about the sidewalks and the trail?<= /p>

      = ;     Mr. Rafey: T= he Subdivision Regulations require sidewalks for any development and I think .= . . .

      = ;     Mr. Zawadzki: Or= cash in lieu of.

        &= nbsp; Mr. Rafey: Yes. I think there is = some kind of agreement that the Town is going to do the trails, Park & Rec .= . . .

        &= nbsp; Ms. Carew: No, it wouldn’t be us, cause = it never happened yet so . . . . .

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        &= nbsp; Mr. Rafey: If the developer provides the trail, then the Town will supply the sidewalks.<= o:p>

      = ;     Ms. Carew: That’s what they’re going to be bringing up at tonight’s meeting.=

        &= nbsp; Ms. Sturgis: The Town Council or Planning and Zo= ning?

      = ;     Ms. Carew: At= the Public Works Subcommittee of the Town Council. Ms. Adams and Mr. Primini were at = the Planning and Zoning meeting last Wednesday and said that they are going to formally recommend at tonight’s Town Council meeting that the Town lo= ok at paying for some of the sidewalks. Where, when, how much, that is something they’ll be negotiating tonight, I’m sure, with his attorney and whoever else is involved, we’re not really part of that.

        &= nbsp; Mr. Duplissie: I’m a little confused. There was a referendum and there w= as money and there still is money in an account for Echo Lake.

      = ;     Ms. Carew: There’s like $2,300 left.

      = ;     Mr. Duplissie: A= nd now we’re going to have the developer pay to put in the walking trail and we’re going to take money out of the Sidewalk Fund to do the sidewalk= on the developer’s property?

      = ;     Ms. Carew: Right. That’s up to the Council and Planning and Zoning will make the ultimate decision. Planning and Zoning will make the decisions, we live with whatever decision, it’s jut that the Park and= Rec Commission is trying to steer the Planning and Zoning Commission that it’s an opportunity, we can get sidewalks out of the Sidewalk Fund, t= he Commission feels very strongly that this is a one shot deal, if we don̵= 7;t get this now we will never get it.

        &= nbsp; Mr. Duplissie: Can you get the walk around the lak= e out of the Sidewalk Fund?

      = ;     Ms. Carew: No.

      = ;     Mr. Duplissie: Why not? You can get money for his development out of the Sidewalk Fund, but you can’t do . . . .

        &= nbsp; Ms. Carew: How it works, if the Planning and Z= oning Commission so chooses, they can request to have the path developed. There is a path there now, I’= ;ve been through there many times. We’d like to have a path that you can really actually, where y= ou first come in from where the dam is to have some steps included, there is a place down here that they’d actually have to bridge the water somehow, but to have it so that it goes all the way around the perimeter of the park= .

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      = ;     Mr. Duplissie: Ri= ght, but I’m just thinking about how you address the public with this and = to me it’s just a (inaudible). (1) you find out how much it would cost the developer to do sidewalk= s on this property.

      = ;     Ms. Carew: Ri= ght, they’re looking at that now.

        &= nbsp; Mr. Duplissie: (2) you find out how much it costs to do the walkway around the lake, and if one is more than the other, you obviously have the developer do the = one that’s most expensive and you do the other one through the Town. I’m only looking at that, ca= use if we’re here and we’re okaying one thing, and the people of the T= own find out about it, then the next thing you know you’ve got 15,000 let= ters to the . . . . .

        &= nbsp; Ms. Carew: Right, that’s why they’= re having public hearings at Planning and Zoning.

      = ;     Mr. Duplissie: So has anybody done that?

        &= nbsp; Ms. Carew: What I’m here for tonight is just to give you a background of what’s happening, that the Park and Rec Commission wants the path to develop the p= ark; it’s underused. When we= went through with his engineers and we went through and we sat down, if you go through here, you’ll see what we expect from the developer. It’s up to the Planning and = Zoning Commission what they come up, if they’re going to go with. Now there’s a couple of issu= es on the plate as far as his division goes, they’re either going to open up Mallory Lane or not, so there are some things that they have to weigh. As far as really doing the really detailed plan or map of this, it’s not going to happen, the Town is n= ot going to pay for it, so it won’t happen until the Planning and Zoning Commission makes their decision as to whether they’re going with the sidewalks, with the trail, with the trail and the Town has that money sitti= ng in the Sidewalk Fund that they have to spend on something because that was a court order so they have to spend it on development and this is all a part = of the Plan of Development as far as I know, it’s connecting sidewalks, = but it’s also in there about using these parks, so they have a decision t= hat they’re going to be making. I’m just informing you, cause I was asked to be here tonight, = that the Park and Rec Commission unanimously stands behind using the park for the trail.

        &= nbsp; Mr. Duplissie: I agree. I want the trail too, = but I’m just thinking, and I’m just throwing numbers out, if itR= 17;s $100,000 to do sidewalks and it’s $20,000 to do the trail, then it doesn’t make any sense to do that, to trade it off 20 to 100.

      = ;     Ms. Carew: That’s something that they= 217;re going to have to decide. It&#= 8217;s not going to be the Park and Rec (inaudible).

Mr. Duplissie: But if it’s 40 for one and 40 for the other, and you have to spend 40 any= way, then you can do it on the sidewalk and he does the trail, then it’s a= no brainer.

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      = ;     Mr. Zawadzki: Where is the sidewalk proposed to be?

      = ;     Ms. Carew: That’s something with Mr. Pol= letta and his lawyer and Planning and Zoning. There are still some issues that they’re ironing out. Icehouse Road will be involved in sidewalks, at least a portion of it, or if it’s going to go on Echo L= ake Road up to the new subdivision over to Mallory, that’s something he’s discussing at this point with his lawyer and Planning and Zoning. That’s not my .= . . .

        &= nbsp; Mr. Zawadzki: No, I just didn’t know if it = was already laid out.

      = ;     Mr. Duplissie: An= d that meeting is when?

      = ;     Ms. Carew: The Town Council meeting is tonight where they’re going to be discussing = it, as far as using some of the Sidewalk Fund money towards the development of = the sidewalks along Echo Lake, and they would be able to better explain it, like Ms. Adams.

        &= nbsp; Mr. Zawadzki: Is this going to be like a sidewalk to nowhere?

        &= nbsp; Ms. Carew: That has nothing to do with us.

        &= nbsp; Mr. Zawadzki: I understand that, but I thought maybe you knew.

        &= nbsp; Mr. Rafey: I think for this Commission, who is going to pay for what is not an issue. My concern is that whoever builds = the sidewalk or the trail, I’m sure there are some regulated activities involved with that. Who’= ;s is going to apply for a permit? = Mr. Polletta or Park and Rec?

        &= nbsp; Ms. Carew: I think that’s still being discussed.&= nbsp; I think it might end up being the Town, but I’m not sure.=

      = ;     Mr. Zawadzki: Wh= at if Mallory Road is brought through? Does that bring us back into the picture?

        &= nbsp; Mr. Rafey: No, because there is no regulated activity there. But if they increase the width of the road, I don’t know if the impact to the wetlands increases or not.

      = ;     Mr. Zawadzki: W= ell they were right at the limit of 5,000 square feet.

      = ;     Mr. Rafey: When this Commission approved that subdivision, the width of the road was 24 feet. And the Planning and Zo= ning Commission I think wanted 30 feet, so I don’t know if that makes any extra impact on the wetlands or not, we will look at that.

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      = ;     Mr. Zawadzki: We= ll at 5,000 it goes to the D.E.P, right?

      = ;     Mr. Rafey: Yes. Whenever you are ready, or whoever wants to submit that application = for the trail, the Commission wants to get a formal application with the plans = for the trail and sidewalk to see where the regulated activities are, then they= will review that.

      = ;     Ms. Carew: Okay, cause right now it’s in everybody else’s hands except ours. The Parks and Rec Commission made = their recommendation; it’s pretty much at Planning and Zoning, whatever direction they go in, at some point you will be hopefully very much involve= d.

      = ;     Mr. Zawadzki: M= r. Rafey, do you know if this trail on this drawing is more or less what was s= hown on the subdivision map?

        &= nbsp; Mr. Rafey: I’m not sure, that can be changed. It depends on where = the sidewalks are going to go. If= they put a sidewalk on this side of the road, then there is no need for a trail. If they put a trail he= re then I don’t think that there’s a need for a sidewalk in the sa= me spot. This can be changed. But I’m sure there will be s= ome regulated activities involved with the sidewalk and the trail, and at that = time there should be a formal application submitted to this Commission.

      = ;     Mr. Duplissie: Ei= ther or, whether it be sidewalks or, cause the lake goes right up to the road.

        &= nbsp; Ms. Carew: So we’re hoping for the best = of both.

      = ;     Mr. Duplissie: We’re hoping for the trail to= o.

        &= nbsp; Ms. Carew: It’s neat over there too, it’s beautiful.

      = ;     Mr. Duplissie: We’re at the lake all the time, but you can’t access it. You can only access that = one little piece, we go with a rubber raft and we row around that lake all day.=

      = ;     Ms. Carew: Well that’s what we’re hoping to do is, are you familiar with where = the old boat launch used to be? I= t was down at the other end, and there’s a little cut off at the other end where the water actually comes, in, and we were talking about reopening that up, putting the rocks down there where the silt ponds are that come down fr= om Mt. Fair, and there used to be a little access to get in there, and as long= as it’s under 14 feet in length, no motor, no combustible engine, you an= go on there.

        &= nbsp; Mr. Duplissie: Little electric trollers?

        &= nbsp; Ms. Carew: Yea, electric is fine.

      = ;     Mr. Duplissie: I’m sure the seniors at Reflections will love that too.

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        &= nbsp; Mr. Zawadzki: = Any other questions for Lisa?

        &= nbsp; Ms. Carew: Thank you very much. Like I said, I apologize, I just f= ound out I was coming here.

      = ;     Mr. Rafey: When Mr. Polletta gives the open space to the Town, the (inaudible) located on t= he open space will be deeded to the Town of Watertown, so you’re on Town property, not on private property, correct?

        &= nbsp; Ms. Carew: Yes, that’s for insurance purposes and it will be much better.<= /span>

        &= nbsp; Mr. Polletta: They don’t want the trail on = my property, they want it all the way around the lake, but any activity that’s going to be done it’s the bulk behind my land, I just wa= nted you to know. My property ends= and the rest is all Town property where they want the permit.=

Mr. Duplissie: The lots end before the lake and the trail would be on Town property, not on subdivision property?

Ms. Carew: Right, that’s what we want.

Mr. Rafey: When everybody is ready then the Commission will look at a formal application.

4.         = Adjournment

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        &= nbsp;   MOTION:       (Mr. Duplissie, sec. Mr. Jones) to Adjourn the Special Meeting at 5:29 p.m.=

  &nbs= p;         Discussion:       None<= o:p>

  &nbs= p;         MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY

  &nbs= p;         Special Meeting Adjourned at 5:29 p.m.

Respect= fully submitted,

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Ronald = Jones, Secretary

Conserv= ation Commission/

Inland Wetlands Agency

  &nbs= p;         _________________= _________________

      &nb= sp;     Lynn M. LaForme, Minutes Secretary