MINU=
TES
CONSERVA=
TION
COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR
MEETING
THURSDAY=
, OCTOBER
12, 2006 - 7:15 PM
PRESENT: =
; &n=
bsp; =
; Lucia
DiBona
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Glenn
Duplissie
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Ron
Jones, Secretary
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Joseph
Polletta
=
; &n=
bsp; =
&nb=
sp; Edwin
Undercuffler, Vice Chairman
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; James
Zawadzki, Chairman
ABSENT: =
; &n=
bsp; =
; =
Charles
Thermer
ALTERNATES PRESENT: =
; None
ALTERNATES ABSENT: =
; <=
/span>Peter Peluso
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Denise
Russ
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Martha
Sturgis
OTHERS PRESENT: &n=
bsp; =
; Chuck
Berger, Town Engineer
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Moosa
Rafey, Assistant Zoning Enforcement Officer
1. =
Call
Meeting To Order
Mr.
Zawadzki, Chairman, called the Regular Meeting to order at 9:32 p.m.
2. &nb=
sp; Roll
Call
Mr.
Jones, Secretary, executed the Roll Call.
3. =
Public
Participation
Mr.
Berger: I=
'd
like to request the addition of an item to the Agenda, under Old Business, =
item
7B, Discussion on Application #567, Zohra and Moosa Rafey.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Polletta) to add Agenda Item 7B, Application #567, Zohra
and Moosa Rafey.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 2
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I'd like to add an=
item
to the Agenda under New Business, Item 8A, Letter to Town Council Regarding=
Attendance
of Commission Members at meeting.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Polletta) to add Agenda Item 8A, Letter to Town Council
Regarding Attendance of Commission Members at meeting.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
Jamie Curtiss,
Ms. Curtiss: <=
/b>I'd like to address Ag=
enda
Item 7A, Application to amend CCIWA Permit #541.
Mr. Zawadzki: =
We'll be discussing th=
at
later on the Agenda.
Ms. Curtiss: <=
/b>I thought that I could
address that right now under Public Participation.
Mr. Zawadzki: =
No, I said that anythi=
ng
that is not on the Agenda for later discussion.
Ms. Curtiss: <=
/b>Okay, that would come =
after,
we can discuss that matter.
Mr. Zawadzki: =
Right.
Mr. Rafey: Mr. Chairman, are you =
going
to allow people to speak under the item, this is not a public hearing? Do you want to talk now or when yo=
u get
to that point?
Mr. Zawadzki: =
Well we're at the end.=
Ms. Curtiss: <=
/b>I understand that I can
speak now or later.
Mr. Zawadzki: =
Well okay, since it's =
not a
public hearing, go ahead.
Ms. Curtiss: <=
/b>Basically I would ask =
that
the Commission, when they consider looking at this property to allow the pe=
rmit
to be obtained. Please come a=
nd do
a field trip on the property prior to issuing the permit. I believe that the activity as pro=
posed
that would be described would require (inaudible) and damaging of our
(inaudible) as the area is not accessible without further encroaching on or
across that watercourse area, and also I believe that the area has already =
been
worked upon, destabilized and (inaudible) removed and the key to the
watercourse buffer zone and the other side which abuts our property would n=
ow
be a matter of destabilizing that area and you said destabilizing that root
system, so I just ask again that this Commission come out and view the prop=
erty
before granting the permit for further activity on that matter. Thank you very much.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 3
4. =
Action
on Minutes
=
A. =
Regular Meeting, May 11, 2006
=
B. =
Continuation of Public Hearing, June 15, 2006, App. #547,
=
C. =
Continuation of Public Hearing, June 15, 2006, App. #546, Patrick
Graziano
=
D. =
Continuation of Public Hearing, June 15, 2006, App. #549, Patrick
Graziano
=
E. =
Regular Meeting, June 15, 2006
=
F. =
Special Meeting Public Hearing, July 6, 2006, App. #552, Anthony Ca=
ruso
=
G. =
Special Meeting Public Hearing, July 6, 2006, App. #556, Water &
Sewer
=
H. =
Special Meeting Public Hearing, July 6, 2006, App. #557, Donald Cur=
tiss
=
I. =
&nb=
sp;
Continuation of Public Hearing, July 20, 2006, App. #549, Patrick
Graziano
=
J. =
Regular Meeting, July 20, 2006
=
K. =
Continuation of Public Hearing, August 10, 2006, App. #552, Anthony
Caruso
=
L. =
Continuation of Public Hearing, August 10, 2006, App. #556, Water &=
amp;
Sewer
=
M. =
Continuation of Public Hearing, August 10, 2006, App. #557, Donald
Curtiss
=
N. =
Public Hearing, August 10, 2006, App. #563, Golden Acres, LLC
=
O. =
Public Hearing, August 10, 2006, App. #567, Zohra Rafey
=
P. =
Regular Meeting, August 10, 2006
=
Q. =
Continuation of Public Hearing, September 14, 2006, App. #552, Anth=
ony
Caruso
=
R. =
Continuation of Public Hearing, September 14, 2006, App. #557, Dona=
ld
Curtiss
=
S. =
Continuation f Public Hearing, August 10, 2006, App. #563, Golden
Acres, LLC
=
T. =
Regular Meeting, September 14, 2006
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr. =
Duplissie,
sec. Mr. Polletta) to Table Items 4A through 4T as presented.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
5. =
Pending
Applications
A. &n=
bsp; Application
#573 of Heritage Development Group, Inc. for construction of Age Restricted
Planned Residential Development on Bunker Hill Road, Watertown, CT.
If
a Public Hearing is Closed on October 12, 2006, then a decision is required=
by December
16, 2006.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 4
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr. =
Duplissie,
sec. Mr. Polletta) to Table Application #573 of Heritage Development Group, Inc. for construction of Age Restricted
Planned Residential Development on
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; B. =
Application
#574 of Brett Zuraitis for construction of an addition to an existing
single-family dwelling at
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a public hearing is not held, then a decision is required by November 18, 2=
006.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Brett
Zuraitis,
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zuraitis: I'm here to add=
ress
any questions and I also brought the (inaudible) map from 1971 (inaudible)
showing the 28 foot retaining wall that is on the property.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: And that's no longer th=
ere,
right?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zuraitis: I have now a foundation
(inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: We went out to =
see
this property on Saturday.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Polletta: I couldn't make=
the
field trip but today I called Moosa and asked him some questions and I went=
by
there and I saw the site, a couple of places.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Do you have any questions for Mr.
Zuraitis?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: No. The only thing is you're paying th=
is
building permit from our Town but this is in the Fire District?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zuraitis: Yes, it is.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: So when they gave you t=
he
permit in
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zuraitis: I went over thi=
s with
the previous land use officer, Mary, and we went over this at the last
meeting. Basically because I =
had a
structure, being the 28 foot retaining wall, that basically (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Polletta: So there was something =
there
before?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 5
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zuraitis: Yes, that's how=
we
ended up in this situation. I=
went
down and talked to Moosa after the following and actually (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: You have a building permit and unbeknownst to you you needed an
inland/wetland permit?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zuraitis: Right.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Duplissie: At this point we walked the site the next station is established, he =
has
wood chips there, there is a silt fence over the (inaudible) and it doesn't
look like anything has gotten by the silt fence, that's one of the things t=
hat
we often check. I look at it =
as
this would have been a hardship anyway, he wanted to put an addition on a h=
ouse
that was bounded by this stream, so if we had given him permission this is
exactly what we would have wanted, the silt fence. He has hay bales, wood chips, and =
the
silt fence, we couldn’t have asked for more, except for the fact that=
he
would have asked for our permission first.=
AT this point it's there, it's done, the foundation is in, let's tak=
e it
off our calendar and let him go.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Polletta: I agree with Mr.
Duplissie. The more disturban=
ce
will make it even worse and because it's done and completed and stabilized,=
I
mean you have permission, you have the permit, it's not like he did it with=
out
the permit, so I think it's a done deal so we should just go on with it.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Polletta) to Approve Application #574 of Brett Zuraitis=
for
construction of an addition to an existing single-family dwelling at 8 Main
Street, Watertown, CT with standard conditions.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
C. =
; Application
#575 of Domenic Mazzettini for construction of a single family dwelling on =
Lot
#268 - 271 Russell Avenue, Oakville, CT.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a public hearing is not held, then a decision is required by November 18, 2=
006.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: We looked at this on Saturday and =
he's
right in the middle of a regulated area.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Is this dif=
ferent
than what was in our packet?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Yes.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 6
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Domenic
Mazzettini, Lot #268-271 Russell Avenue,
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: I have an engineer here to answer =
any
questions concerning the lot.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Why don't you summarize what you've done
since we saw it on Saturday.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: I really haven't done any revisions sin=
ce
Saturday (inaudible) at the walk through.&=
nbsp;
Since the last meeting all your business for erosion and everything =
else
was set, new bales for you guys.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Polletta: Is this an existing lot? So this is a lot that you've been =
paying
taxes on?
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: Yes.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Duplissie: This is not your lot, have you pur=
chased
this lot yet?
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: (Inaudible) no.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Duplissie: It has been subdivided? This was like 4 lots at one point?=
268, 269, 270, and 271.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Polletta: Yea but Moosa, I mean these 4 lots over=
here
are the old city lots, and this has been combined together. Have they been paying taxes since =
1955?
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Rafey: Is this one parcel, the entire piece? The owner wants to cut this piece =
as a
first cut? Or this lot is exi=
sting
like this?
=
; &n=
bsp; David
Rhodes, Compass Engineering
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Rhodes: With 4 existing lots from the 1911 subdivision, they were combined in=
to 1
lot. To the left side is the
proposed building lot is the extension of
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Polletta: When was this connected?
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Rhodes: I don't remember.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Polletta: So it was a long time ago?
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Rhodes: Yes.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Polletta: Before zoning laws?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 7
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Rafey: These lots are small lots, they don't meet today's regulations. (Inaudible.)
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Even if the small lots don't meet today=
's
standards, but even the lot the way it's sized right now, in our standards =
we
can't put a house on this lot.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Rafey: On the site walk we asked the applicant if he can get more land from =
the
neighbors to combine with this lot?
Did you talk to your . . . . .
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: No, not an option, no more land.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Polletta: I still didn't get an answer, did these=
4
lots pay taxes since 1955?
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: Yes.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: On 4 individua=
l lots
or 1 lot? Right now the lot t=
hat
he's looking to buy here, on my drawing it says Lots #268, #269, #270, and
#271. Are they still listed a=
s 4
separate lots?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Mazzettini: No, 1 lot.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Many
people talking at once (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: So you've been =
paying
taxes in this lot since the 50's?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: I just purcha=
sed
the lot, the people before me were paying taxes on the lot, the Sweeney's w=
ere
paying taxes on the lot since it existed.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: So you bought i=
t from
somebody else.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: Right, it was=
in
the package, I bought the 3 family, the lot behind this and this lot
altogether. I pay on the 3 fa=
mily,
I pay on the lot behind the 3 family, and I pay on this. This is one lot, it's taxed as one=
lot.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: The reason why =
I'm saying
this is in the past, when we had a lot that was existing, that was
non-conforming, or whatever, we always considered it a building lot to buil=
d on
and we bend backwards for a lot of people.=
If he tried to agree to that it's a different ballgame, that's the
reason why I'm trying to figure out what's going on here.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: This is an existin=
g lot,
on the site walk it was suggested to see if they could get some more land
because all of these lots are owned by the same person. If they can some more lots with th=
is lot
and combine it with this and do a lot line revision and put a house a little
further away from the brook. I
don't know if they can provide more land with this lot or not.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 8
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: I can't do th=
at
because then it encroaches my square footage for a 3 family on this
(inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Then your 3 fam=
ily
would become non-conforming.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: No, my 3 fami=
ly on
Saugus is grandfathered in I guess for the square footage, but the one on R=
ussell
I need 12,500 square feet to put a new 3 family up, and that conforms right
now. If I were to give up any
property on there then it would be non-conforming.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Then you would =
have
(inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: Right, so I c=
an't give
up any square footage on it.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: You need 17,500 sq=
uare
feet.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: That's what is
there, 17,500.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: My concern is i=
f it's
an existing situation where they've been paying taxes for so many years, th=
en
it's not fair, and we did this before, if it's existing it's one thing; if =
it's
brand new today, if they paid taxes for 30 or 40 years, what are you going =
to
do, give them the money back? You
can't do that.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: No, it's just=
that
I don't see where to put the house.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: On this lot ri=
ght
now it is either in the wetlands or it's totally (inaudible) up in the upla=
nd
review area.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: What do you do =
with a
lot that has wetlands on it today?
You make people pay taxes for 30 years and then you deny the
application? I mean to me it
doesn’t make sense. The=
n you
should (inaudible). I want to=
understand
that because now I'm confused.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rhodes: You're not encroa=
ching
on the wetlands, you're encroaching on the wetlands buffer.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well as close a=
s that
is to the wetlands, you wouldn't be able to grade and put in a foundation a=
nd
build a house there without getting into the wetlands. When you're all said and done, may=
be you
would just be in the setback area but you're coming within a couple of feet=
the
way I read this map of the wetland watercourse and there's no way you can g=
rade
it and put in a foundation and not get in it. Have you analyzed that to see how =
many
square feet of wetlands you're going to disturb?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rhodes: Not a foundation,=
it's
a slab on grade, it's (inaudible).
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 9
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Well could =
the
house be put on the other side of the brook? It looks like there's more room ov=
er
there.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: It's worse on =
that
side. It's worse because if y=
ou
were on the site walk, what happens is I walk down and across a little, the=
re's
a huge pipe and again I walked over to the other side, and when you walked =
into
that area, if you're looming at the map, right where it says 89, (inaudible)
Gold Star Realty, 89 feet, stand right in there, and you sink 6 inches into=
the
ground.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Going close to =
the 50
foot, you go over there too.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: They didn't ev=
en
delineate the wetlands on that other lot, I'm sure that area is all wet on =
that
side.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Can you make th=
is
house a little bit smaller than 34 feet so to be away from the buffer.
&= nbsp; &= nbsp; Mr. Rhodes: Why (inaudible)?<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: I would like to=
see
30 x 30 so that way you take at least 4 feet off over there so you come away
from the wetlands. I thought =
that
this was right in the wetlands, you're in the buffer, am I right? I would suggest that you could bui=
ld a
30 foot house, a 30 x 30, 3 bedrooms, (inaudible). I'm talking about from the
wetlands. How far are you fro=
m the
wetlands now?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: But the proble=
m with
this is that not only is he 3 feet from the wetlands, but this stream has
changed course so many times that if this stream changes course one more ti=
me,
it's going to take your house with it.&nbs=
p;
Look at the stream and you can see the erosion, there is a section, =
a 5
foot pipe that's probably 20 feet long that has been moved 50, 75 feet
downstream, it's actually been taken and eroded all the way downstream, so =
this
thing moves far.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: But they could
address what they're going to do with this. I'm just saying that I cannot sit =
over
here and deny somebody an application, but I could work with them because t=
axes
have been paid on this lot and that's what I would like to do.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: This is an exi=
sting
lot and typically you don't make a non-conforming lot out of a new lot, but=
if
we move this house, and I don't know if we can do this or not, but instead =
of
having a 10 foot setback side yard and the 25 foot front yard, if we move t=
hat
house forward and to the side yard . . . . he'd have to bring it to the Zon=
ing
Board of Appeals, but to me that would bring him 30 or 40 feet away from the
wetlands, move him closer to the road, but the house up the street from him=
is
2 feet from the road, I'd rather see this than have him in the wetlands,
especially when that stream moves.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 10
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Usually try not to
approve a non-conforming building, the zoning regulations discourage
non-conforming structures and we are trying to get rid of the existing
non-conforming things in town and if they go to . . . . they won't give a
variance.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: I'm willing to =
reduce
the square feet of the house and because it's an existing situation and then
maybe the owner has to address how you're going to control this erosion over
here, but for me to sit here and tell somebody no, you cannot build somethi=
ng,
this is Oakville, all the lots in Oakville are very small lots and years ago
they used to make . . . . I served on Planning and Zoning for 12 years and =
we
saw a lot of this, especially in that area, so I think we should reduce the
house size and I mean as long as you don't go into the wetlands. My question to you is how far are =
you
from this line?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rhodes: 2 feet.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: So can you make=
this
house like 30, what is it now?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rhodes: 30 x 34.
&= nbsp; &= nbsp; Mr. Polletta: I would like to= take 4 or 5 feet off so we get away from the wetlands about 10 feet if you can.<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Or if the property=
owner
agrees, can you do a lot line revision and instead of having a 3 family hom=
e on
that lot, have a 2 family home and give more land to this lot?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leone: That's not what I =
want
to do.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Well yea, b=
ut
it's not what we want to do to . . . .
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leone: No, I mean you're =
asking
me to give up a unit. That's =
not
something . . . . .
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: This Commission al=
ways
asks for other alternatives.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leone: I can give him zer=
o clearance
on the property lines, and go the extra 5 feet.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: You can't do that,=
the
Zoning Board of Appeals can do that.
I guess if you want you can go to the Zoning Board of Appeals and tr=
y to
get a variance. I will review=
this
application for the Zoning Board of Appeals, and I can make a comment that =
the Wetlands
Commission recommended you go there.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 11
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Under our guid=
elines
we don't want the house where it is right now, so if you go through Z.B.A. =
and
get them to move the house the way that we're talking which is, it has to m=
eet
their guidelines, but it moves you away from the watercourse.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: And it lines yo=
u up
with the rest of the houses on the street.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And if Z.B.A. =
gets a
recommendation from Moosa saying that we don't want the house where it is n=
ow,
we want it closer to the street and (inaudible) property line, that might c=
arry
some weight, and if it does, then that works for us. If it doesn't then we'll have to l=
ook at
another solution to this problem.
He's got a lot we'll have to find some other solution to help him bu=
ild
the house.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Do you pay very
little tax because it's wetlands?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leone: I think it's $1,80=
0.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: So he's paying =
the
full lot.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: $1,800 for thi=
s lot,
not for all 3 lots?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leone: No.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Even though it'=
s
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Yea, but th=
is is
one lot he said, it's not 3 lots, so it must be this whole thing.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Yea, but it's 3=
small
lots, it's 100 x what?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: No, it's
(inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: No, I'm talking=
about
just for this lot, how much do you pay a year?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leone: $1,800.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: For the whole t=
hing.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leone: For the one lot in
question.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: 268, 269, 270, =
and
271.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Which is one lo=
t.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 12
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leone: Correct. I don't know why those are smaller=
lots
on there.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Years ago they =
never
moved it and that's how they used to be.&n=
bsp;
I mean my uncle built a house on 60 x 100 about 5 or 6 years ago they
put a house on it (Tape #3, Side A ended - may have missed some) paying $1,=
800
a year and the previous people paid $1,800 or $1,500 whatever they paid, it
isn't right to (inaudible) building lot.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Mr. Chairman, can =
I make
a suggestion? I think you can=
do a
lot line revision from the front of this big lot give some land to this lot=
and
then take some from the back, and then you can have the square footage for =
a 3
family home.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Do you follow
that? If you move the lot line
instead of having the lot line here, move it to here somewhere, and over and
then jog it back like this so that this lot is still the same square footage
for your 3 family, but it would move this house farther away from the
wetlands. Because right now y=
ou'll
have this house and have no property, no yard, and he'll walk out his back =
door
and once that stream comes up and they'll know that this area is prone for
flooding, what are they going to do?
It's not going to be a 4 foot frost wall, it's going to have to buil=
d a
10 foot frost wall to keep his house out of the water.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rhodes: How much land do =
you
want to switch?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leone: 100 feet.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: I know, but I =
just
want to see, move them away, I don't care how you change the lot line.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Many
people talking at once (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rhodes: 25 foot (inaudibl=
e)
make the house smaller, 30 feet, 28 feet, you're still going to be close to=
the
wetlands. I don't think you c=
an jog
it that much.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Well you're goi=
ng to
(inaudible) 50 feet.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: 25, 25 feet, whate=
ver
you can, it will be better than what it is now.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Yea, anything is
better than what you have now.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Can you do that 25
feet? Take some of this lot h=
ere
and then take from the back of that lot, but the house would be moved away =
from
the wetlands.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Can we go smal=
ler
with the foundation?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 13
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: You can do anyt=
hing
you want, but I speak for myself, if the regulations say that you have to b=
e 50
feet away, I'm willing to myself 25 feet, but you have to work it out so you
can make a lot revision so you still have enough land to build your house a=
nd
you have (inaudible) and Moosa will help you out.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: If you come to the
Planning and Zoning Office, I can put you on the Agenda for the next P &=
; Z
meeting which is November 1st, yes, for a lot line revision, and then on
November 16th you can come back to this Commission.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: What is typica=
lly .
. . . 75 feet from a body of water or stream?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: 100.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Is it 50?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: There is no septic,
there is (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Leone: Is 25 feet accepta=
ble?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: We can revise =
it to
get it at least 25 feet away. 2
feet away is just unacceptable, especially with the amount of water that fl=
ows
through that stream.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Is that accepta=
ble,
to take a look at that, go to Planning and Board of Appeals and try to get a
variance?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: We can try.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: You have 2 options=
, you
can withdraw this application and resubmit this application later or this
Commission can Table this until next month.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Mazzettini: I’d rat=
her
continue it instead of (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr. =
Duplissie,
sec. Mr. Polletta) to Table Application #575 of Domenic Mazzettini for construction of a single family dwelling =
on
Lot #268 - 271 Russell Avenue, Oakville, CT.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 14
D. =
; Application
#576 of Cherry Avenue, LLC for construction of a two-lot residential
subdivision on Cherry Avenue, Watertown, CT.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a public hearing is not held, then a decision is required by November 18, 2=
006.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; David
Rhodes, Thomas Engineering Group
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rhodes: At the last meeti=
ng the
committee (inaudible) 3 lots and (inaudible) Cherry Avenue (inaudible) large
rear lot, (inaudible) close to the wetlands and at the last meeting it was
suggested . . . . in the small package you have 3 plans, the revisional pla=
n on
top that shows the 3 lots, 2 minimum sized lots on
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Is there any re=
ason
why you couldn’t, on Alternate #2 put the driveway parallel to lot on=
e,
the boundary? You've got it p=
retty
much going on a right angle to
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rhodes: You get into the =
zoning
requirement. You have to have=
the
35 foot building square touching the, overlapping the front and back lines,
that's why you have the 75 foot square there and put the land in as much as
possible.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well that would=
n't
change, would it, I mean just where you put the driveway, your setback, you=
r 75
foot square and so forth, your frontage wouldn't change. All I'm saying is change the angle=
of
the driveway. Instead of right
angles to
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: What does that=
do?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well it allows =
you to
shift everything to the left.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 15
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: But you can't =
shift
the lot line, it's got to stay within that, he's got to maintain that 75 fo=
ot
box for that front setback line.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rhodes: And that would on=
ly
save you a little bit of buffer area if you move that driveway farther to t=
he
west. The only thing in the b=
uffer
area is the water and sanitary line.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: That's another =
thing,
wouldn't you be able to go with the sanitary lines side by side instead of
having 2 . . . .
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rhodes: The problem with =
this
lot here is it flattens out and it's just pretty much flat through here.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: I mean this lo=
oks
like a 2 lot subdivision rather than a 3 lot subdivision.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Yea, I don't se=
e an Alternate
#3, there would be just 2 lots.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: And that way i=
f it
was a 2 lot subdivision, you wouldn't have anything within the wetlands, you
wouldn't have anything in the upland review area.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Is
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rhodes: Probably never.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Yea because Loc=
kwood
already has houses on it so nobody is going to put a road in just to have .=
. .
.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rhodes: There are too many
wetlands this way of the site along the road.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: I think he had=
every
intention of improving Old Army Road when he bought this because he though =
he
was going to put 5 or 6 lots on Old Army Road but come to find out it's all
wet, wet up above and below so there's really only 2 lots you could put if =
you
put a road through. It just l=
ooks
like a 2 lot subdivision, not a 3 one.&nbs=
p;
In order to get out of the upland review area or the wetlands, and s=
tay
away from (inaudible) sewer lines or driveways through is that if you just =
made
it a 2 lot subdivision, made lot #1 larger, which gives him a better sale p=
rice
and put the driveway for lot #2, call it an interior lot because the house =
is
set back, even though it’s not an interior lot, it makes it a large l=
ot
for somebody who wants privacy back there, and nobody is in the upland revi=
ew
or in the wetlands.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 16
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: There's not
enough room in the back for 2 lots in the back and 1 in the front?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: Well there's e=
nough
room, it's not without getting into the upland review or the wetlands.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: I'm talking=
about
staying out of that, there's not enough room to do that?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: Not with havin=
g a 75
foot block on the road frontage.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Instead they can h=
ave
the 75 foot frontage but they need a common driveway to go to the back and =
(inaudible)
2 lots, yes.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rhodes: A common driveway=
would
be no problem, if Zoning would approve it.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: You can go for a
preliminary discussion with the Planning and Zoning Commission to see if th=
ey
would approve it.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well if you're =
going
to a common driveway, that would pretty much get you out of the . . . .
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Give you your =
2 lots
back there and (inaudible) upland review area. I prefer a common driveway, I pref=
er you
go that way.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: There is enough fr=
ontage
for 3 lots here?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rhodes: Yes.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: Even the 75 foot m=
inimum
square (inaudible) lots?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rhodes: Yes.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: 2 back here and 1 =
in front
and a common driveway here.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: So if you come =
up
with a proposal for a common driveway, draw it up, see how that looks?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And keep it ou=
t of
the upland review area.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rhodes: Okay. Alternate #3?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Yea, Alternate =
#3.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 17
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Mr. Chairman, as t=
he
plan has been presented, do you want to determine if this is a significant
activity, do you want a public hearing?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Well if he's g=
oing
to come back with an alternate, that is not within the upland review area, =
the
it's not a significant activity. As
it stands now, I would say it is significant.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: The other facto=
r is of
course public interest. Well =
we
still have time, we can decide whether or not it is a significant activity
after we see Alternate #3.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: You have until Nov=
ember
18th and then you can ask for an extension if you need it.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well November 1=
8th
schedule a public hearing.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: To hold a public h=
earing. You will submit another plan with a
common driveway and 2 lots in the back?
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Rhodes: Yes.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr. =
Duplissie,
sec. Mr. Undercuffler) to Table Application #576 of Cherry Avenue, LLC for construction of a two-lot residential
subdivision on Cherry Avenue, Watertown, CT.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
E. =
; Application
#577 of Michael Quicquaro for installation of an onsite septic system at
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a public hearing is not held, then a decision is required by November 18, 2=
006.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Is the applicant
here?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: No.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: We did a site w=
alk on
this and we looked at the possibilities of putting the septic system in a
different location than what he was proposing which was down near the lake,=
and
he said he would have to go over it with Bob Smith, and so Moosa agreed to =
sit
with him and apparently the applicant didn't call and make a date to sit wi=
th
Bob Smith and neither did he show up tonight.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: Have you he=
ard
from him?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 18
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: No, I did talk to =
Bob
Smith and he (inaudible) to come and do that (inaudible). Just table it and I will contact h=
im.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr. =
Duplissie,
sec. Mr. Undercuffler) to Table Application #577 of Michael Quicquaro for installation of an onsite septic system a=
t
Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
6. &n=
bsp; New
Applications
A. =
; Application
#578 of Anthony Caruso for construction of an 8-lot residential subdivision
"Waters of Winnemaug" located between
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a public hearing is Closed on October 12, 2006, then a decision is required=
by December
16, 2006.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: We already had =
the
presentation. Do you want to =
do a
site walk on this?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Polletta: I think we've b=
een
over there more than once.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: We had a site walk=
.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: What about the
conservation easements that we were talking about? I don't know if having a site walk=
, if
they'd be able to point those out to us.&n=
bsp;
I was not there for the site walk.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: You can have anoth=
er site
walk if you want to.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Polletta: Now that he moved the road and the=
lot,
I think we should take another look at this. A lot of changes.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Plus he's proposing a wood pier fo=
r the
boat launch.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr. =
Polletta,
sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Schedule a site walk for Application #578 of Anthony Caruso for construction o=
f an
8-lot residential subdivision "Waters of Winnemaug" located betwe=
en
Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 19
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Polletta, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to Table Application #578 of Anthony Caruso for construction of an 8-lot residential subdivi=
sion
"Waters of Winnemaug" located between Caruso Drive and Flint Lock
Road, Watertown, CT.
Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
B. =
; Application
#579 of Ronald Clemente for construction of an above ground pool and deck a=
t
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a public hearing is not held, then a decision is required by December 15, 2=
006.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Elizabeth
Clemente,
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Clemente: (Inaudible) the=
deck
coming off the deck would be attached for a pool.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Do you have a s=
ite
plan?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: It's in your packe=
t.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: This is anothe=
r one
of those small lots in
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: The deck would be =
14
feet from the edge of brook, which is basically the property line.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Duplissie: And the yard already goes right to the =
brook,
it's a mowed lawn all the way down to the brook, so by putting in a pool, i=
f we
approve this pool, I would ask that when you're draining the pool, that you
don't put the hose all the way down to the stream, you put your house onto =
the
lawn as far away from the stream as possible so that when you do have to dr=
ain,
so that your chemicals get dissipated into your grass, rather than your
chemicals going down into the stream.
That's the only problem I have with you having your pool where you w=
ant
it. Unfortunately you have no=
other
place, so I don't have a problem with the pool going where it is, she has no
other spot for it.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Yea, we've had applications.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 20
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Duplissie: In the past we've approved these on
these small lots. I would jus=
t add
that that be one of the things that we mention to her, that when you are
emptying the pool, and it's a considerable amount of water, it's 12 x 24 is
about 3,000 gallons of water that has chemicals in it, it's a large amount =
of
water to be emptying into the stream.
So dissipate it slowly with a garden hose or however you're going to=
empty
it, and let it go across the lawn.
(Tape #4, Side B ended - may have missed some.)
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Polletta) to Schedule a site walk for Application #5
Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Polletta) to Table Application #579 of Ronald Clemente for construction of an above ground pool and de=
ck
at 62 Frances Ann Drive, Oakville, CT.
Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
C. =
; Application
#580 of Northrop Grunmann Space & Mission System Corp. for a soil
remediation project at 100 New wood Road,
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; If
a public hearing is not held, then a decision is required by December 15, 2=
006.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Tamara
Brook Devine, Northrop Grunmann Space & Mission System Corp.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: We are requ=
esting
application from your agency to conduct soil remediation activities at
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 21
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; The
two areas that we proposed, are shown in yellow, I think you have drawings =
in front
of you that have two circled areas, those are the areas that we propose to =
do
work. We've used some conserv=
atory
sampling at the time of the hand excavation to see if any additional areas
would have to be done. We won=
't
have the report (inaudible) but I recommend it (inaudible) would include
additional, if we had to go back and do additional areas.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; We
did evaluate some other alternatives mainly mechanical methods. For the size of this project we fe=
lt
that it was not necessary, using an excavator or something like that. In addition in order to get an exc=
avator
down to this location, there's about a 15 to 20 foot elevation drop. We would have to either put in a
temporary road or for sure we'd have to take down additional trees and
shrubbing and grading in that area so we have elected to do hand digging.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: What is this
material?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: It is impac=
ted
with (inaudible) petroleum hydrocarbon.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: What are the
numbers?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: I think 2 o=
f the
samples were above the 500 milligrams per kilogram which is the D.E.P.'s
residential (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: (Inaudible) co=
me
back with what the total was?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: I think 1,2=
00 was
the highest.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: And what is the
source?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: The source,=
there
is evidence of some construction debris in this area. This area was filled when (inaudib=
le)
built, so there are some asphalt chunks in the area. It's possible that some runoff fro=
m the
parking lot came down. The sh=
aded
area that is shown in this diagram is the runoff from the parking lot, ther=
e is
drainage that comes down there.
Additional soil excavations were done around this area so there is a
total of about 10 samples that were done around this area, so there is a to=
tal
of about 10 samples that were done and there were no (inaudible) there, it =
was
all (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: So it was T.P.=
H., it
wasn't P.C.B.?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: No.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: That's an area=
that
had some problems with P.C.B.'s in the past so I wanted to make sure it was=
n't
P.C.B.'s.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 22
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: Is this bec=
ause
you're getting ready to sell the property?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: No, actuall=
y this
property has already been transferred on, it's a voluntary cleanup. I.T.T. is the current property own=
er,
Northrop Grunmann is the former owner.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: If you susp=
ect
there has been runoff problems, what is to prevent this from happening in t=
he
future?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: That's a go=
od
question. We went and looked =
at
that possibility. I don't kno=
w if
it was a one time release on the parking lot. We looked, there was no evidence on=
the
property of a resale. The loa=
ding
dock and the building itself, it's clean.&=
nbsp;
They had very limited amount of supplies that come from this facilit=
y,
most of it comes from UPS and boxes and things like that. We didn't find the smoking gun.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: How did you fi=
nd
such a small area? Is it visi=
ble
from the surface?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: No.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: You did surfac=
e soil
samples and you found 3 spots?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: Yea, previo=
us
consultants did this work. As=
part
of the site closure you go and you investigate areas where there suspect, P=
hase
I and Phase II, so this is an area of concern because of the runoff from the
parking lot. That's why they
initially did sampling. I thi=
nk
they probably did one sample down there, had a hit, and then they expanded
beyond that. We do have 3
groundwater monitoring wells in that area, that we are continuing to
monitor. There have been
intermittent hits of E.T.P.H. slightly above the groundwater protection cri=
teria. The groundwater protection criteri=
a is
.1 milligrams per liter and I believe the highest we've seen is .6 or .7.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: So you're prop=
osing
an excavation of about 100 square feet?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: Correct.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: And then depen=
ding
on what you find, you're going to take tests on the perimeter of the pit as=
you
excavate?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: Yes.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 23
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: And then we'll=
get
those results and we'll know whether or not you're going to go any further =
than
that.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: Yes, but th=
at 100
square feet includes going back for additional, the original probably is ma=
ybe
20 square feet.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: But when you h=
it
here, it could be going over there.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: True, but w=
e've
already done a fair amount of sampling out there.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: It looks like =
it's
limited?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: Yes. The guy going out there, (inaudibl=
e)
replicate even where he's worked.
There's not an obvious stain on the ground.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Jones: Is it fair to say =
that you're
asking to remove a couple cubic yards of oily soil?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: It's not a
couple. It's 100 cubic yards.=
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Jones: No, that's square =
feet.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: Yes.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: 27.7 cubic
yards. How many cubic yards a=
re you
taking out? You're going to b=
e hand
digging so you're not going to be, and at the bottom of the hill, so you're
(inaudible) the hill.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: Yes.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: I think this is th=
e kind
of application that usually encourages them to go ahead and (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: If you hit any=
thing
worse then . . . .you're going to remove it.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: Yea, if it's
beyond 100 square feet or beyond what we are approved for, then we would ha=
ve
to come back to you. Like I s=
aid,
we did have provisions for going out and doing the 2 areas and doing some
additional sampling. If those
samples come back and we do more hand digging that would be included in that
100 square feet, we had a preapplication meeting and it was suggested, so i=
t's
all conservative, 100 square feet is not a lot anyway.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: And you're now=
here
near the wetlands?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 24
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: No, that's =
not
true.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: How far are yo=
u from
the wetlands/
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: We are abut=
ting
the wetlands. We are either i=
n the
wetlands or in the upland review area.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: And you're tak=
ing
precautions. You have the hay
bales, (inaudible) bales.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: We elected =
not to
use silt fences that would be more (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: State hay bale=
s are
much better.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: We have to wait=
until
next month to approve it.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: They can't go =
in and
remediate this now? You're go=
ing to
wait until the ground is frozen next month?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: There is a stat=
ute
that says we have to allow, in case someone from the public object . . . . =
.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: Will there =
be
more public hearings next week/
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well it wouldn'=
t be
on this, this is not a significant activity.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: No, she's sayi=
ng she
would only be able to come after a public hearing so . . . .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Many
people talking at once (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: But you don't have=
to
come in front of (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: No, I came =
at
7:30 (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: She has to come
back.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: There's nothing=
else
to say unless something changes, so you wouldn't have to come back.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ms.
Brook Devine: I agree, but
there's always, I've been there before and there might be questions.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 25
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Undercuffler) to Table Application #580 of Northrop Grunmann Space & Mis=
sion
System Corp. for a soil remediation project at 100 New Wood Road, Watertown,
CT.
Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
7. &n=
bsp; Old
Business
&=
nbsp; A. Application
to amend the CCIWA Permit #541 issued to Ronald Delaney, Jr. to permit
additional regulated activities on
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: This is the one that the lady spoke
about during public participation asking us to take another look at.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Duplissie: I agree. This is a 3.5 acre site that was t=
ough
because it was just a small area that was beyond the upland review area.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: The applicant is
present.
=
; &n=
bsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Why is this (inaudible) come up, w=
hat's
the problem?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Ron
Delaney, Jr.,
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Delaney: The reason this =
has
come up is I believe there was a complaint filed about me taking the excess=
ive
stone or rip rap or whatever you want to call it and placing it in the
intermittent watercourse. I w=
as not
here at the time, but Moosa visited the site and at that time it was
recommended by Moosa what I should do is refile for an addendum or amendmen=
t to
the original application. I d=
id
take pictures of this area in question that you might want to look at and
basically I was placing stones along the edge of that bank and I've also ta=
ken
grass seed to put it along that bank to help stop the erosion. There are other areas there that
probably should be addressed as well.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: Did he go b=
eyond
what he was permitted to do?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 26
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: If you remember, y=
ou
approved the location of this house being next to the wetlands on this lot,=
and
thee was also some regulated activity within the wetland area and especially
the setback area that was approved with this application, but I got a call =
from
a neighbor complaining that Mr. Delaney went beyond the regulated area that=
was
permitted by the application and also Mr. Delaney dumped some storm (inaudi=
ble)
into the brook. I noticed tha=
t the
activity happening on this lot is more than what was approved in the
application, that's why I suggested, I cannot approve this and you have to =
go
back to the Commission to amend the permit. That's why he's in front of you.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Yea, well we al=
ready
pretty much decided that anyway.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: We should go l=
ook at
it before we make a decision on it.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: Yes, go ahead and =
next
time you can discuss it.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Delaney: Do you want these
pictures (inaudible) erosion?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: I think it's bette=
r if
they go there and see it.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Delaney: There's one other
thing that I would like to add.
Next to the corner of the house where the house was being constructe=
d,
there was a pile of debris there.
About the time I started the construction of the house I went to Moo=
sa
and asked him if I should remove that out of there. I took whatever metal I could find=
in
that area and put it in a dumpster which is street side and then I had the
excavator dig a hole back from the brook and dump the excessive wood and so=
me
stumps that we had and they've all been buried.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: Don't say that,
you're not supposed to buy wood stumps and your excavator knows that.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Delaney: Well there's a b=
ig
pile of them there and they're rolling down so . . .
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: You don't bury=
them.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: We don't allow stu=
mps to
be buried on the property in
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: For the past 2=
0 some
years.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 27
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Delaney: Well I know ther=
e's
about 2 or 3 stumps still in the bottom of that watercourse because about 8=
or
9 years ago there was an Oak Tree that was 3 foot in diameter that was along
the edge of that bank and the water undercut that so much the tree fell over
and I had to have a skidder come in and remove that tree and get it out of
there. And that's still going=
on,
those banks are still being undercut.
At this point in time on Moosa's recommendation I went up there and
walked the area with Roy Cavanaugh and he recommended beyond putting the st=
ones
there in the base of the watercourse large ones to stop the water force from
coming through he also recommended that besides the grass that I plant a li=
ttle
spritzer. The hemlocks there =
are
all dying, all in that whole area.
A lot of those leaves there are turning already and there is no
vegetation along that bank at all because of the hemlocks and I'd like to s=
ee
some vegetation in there.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: There's active ero=
sion
going on in that watercourse on Mr. Delaney's side and I recommended because
the drainage pipe is from the road and I told him (inaudible) call the Publ=
ic
Works Department to see if there is any way they can fix it. I think it's a good idea to just go
there and see it. And to fix =
that watercourse
you need a cross-section and a plan of how you want to fix it. Something that you can put together
before the next meeting if you can.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Delaney: Okay, and I assu=
me you
guys want to go out there and walk it which I think would be excellent.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Yea, we'll prob=
ably
do it November 11th.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Polletta) to Table and Schedule a Site Walk for CCIWA Permit #541 issued to Ronald Dela=
ney,
Jr. to permit additional regulated activities on
Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
B. =
Application #567, Zohra and Moosa Rafey=
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: On this particula=
r item
I'm acting in my temporary appointed role as Assistant Zoning Enforcement
officer for this application. I'd
like to give you a quick chronology of some of the things that have occurred
around this application, and I think it would help describe how we got to
what's before you tonight and why I brought it to you tonight.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 28
&=
nbsp; Back
in the beginning of June, June 7th the Planning and Zoning Commission appoi=
nted
Atty. Hess to represent the Town on all matters dealing with this
application. June 9th Inland
Wetland application was received in the Planning and Zoning Office from the
applicant stamped in June 9th. June
28th I was appointed as Assistant Zoning Enforcement Officer for this
application by the Planning and Zoning Commission.
&=
nbsp; My
preliminary review of the application indicated and I apologize, they're a
little bit out of order, the first one I noticed was the blank on Page 6 of=
the
Inland/Wetland application which is the third page of what I just handed to
you. Item #12 was blank was my
first, that was the first blank I noticed on the application. I brought that to the applicant's =
attention
returned the original to Mr. Rafey and it was returned back to me signed
shortly thereafter. As the
Commission members may recall, the 20th of July it was back before the Plan=
ning
and Zoning Commission meeting and a petition was received from the neighbors
and a hearing scheduled. Upon=
my
further review of the application I noticed an additional 2 blanks that were
not completed that should have been completed and that was on the second pa=
ge
of the handout that I just agave you, Page 2 of the standard Inland/Wetland
application and the two areas that were not completed were item #2 the
applicant's interest in the land and Item #5 property owner's consent to the
activities proposed in this application.&n=
bsp;
I apologized to the applicant but I again returned the original to h=
im
and said that these blanks should be completed in order for this to be
considered a completed application.
And it was returned to me shortly thereafter with those blanks filled
in. On the 10th of August a p=
ublic
hearing was held and closed that night and the application was approved.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 29
&=
nbsp; There
was a significant discussion following that update at the Planning and Zoni=
ng Commission
meeting. I was not in attendance but I believe it was discussed at the Town
Council meeting and concerned express and I wanted to bring Mr. Nardelli's =
memo
to your attention. I have sha=
red
this memo with Atty. Hess and asked for his opinion. I have not received a formal respo=
nse
from him, but based on my discussion with him, it is my recommendation that
there are 2 alternatives to bring this into compliance with the inland wetl=
and
regulations in the application form.
Both of them entail asking the applicant to submit to the Commission
revised pages of the application.
Option #1 would be to have the Town Manager sign it with the concurr=
ence
of the Town Council if that's what it takes. If you read Mr. Nardelli's memo in=
my
mind he's basically withdrawing his signature from that application. Option #2 based on the, Atty. Pili=
cy has
also provided a legal opinion before, Atty. Hess now has a new legal opinion
out. Atty. Hess believes that=
the
applicant, with guidance from his attorney, may have the ability to sign th=
at
as property owner, there is some language that would have to be developed f=
rom
Council's perspective as to why the applicant had the right to sign that
property owner blank, but Atty. Hess does believe that could be crafted by =
the
applicant's attorney. It's
recommendation and mine to pursue either one of those alternatives.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: But isn't the applicant the property owner?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: No.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: You mean th=
e wife
is the property owner, is that what you're saying?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: No, the property =
where
the common driveway is owned by the Town of
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Polletta: Are you saying =
that
when we voted on it that night, we weren’t supposed to vote on it bec=
ause
the applicant did not own that property?&n=
bsp;
Is that what it is?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I wouldn't go tha=
t far
at this point. At the time yo=
u made
that decision, we didn't have a memo from Mr. Nardelli. I don't know from a wetlands persp=
ective
if it . . . . you made your
decision based on well this is a procedural issue.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: This is a zoni=
ng
issue.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: It's your regulat=
ions,
it's your application form that should be completed properly and
appropriately. I guess becaus=
e of
the controversy that surrounds this I believe it's important to do it
appropriately.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 30
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: To have a prop=
er
application, just have the application redone? Is that what you're asking for?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I would suggest t=
hat
the applicant choose one of those two alternatives which I explained and on=
ce
we get that, then it will be the Commission's decision as to what to do and=
if
you like I can get Atty. Hess' opinion into that.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: What were t=
hose
two again?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Get someone in th=
e Town
with authority and the ability to sign that blank on Page 2 of the
application. In Mr. Nardelli's
memo, in my mind, takes that signature away.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: That's what it
sounds like.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: And which b=
lock
are we talking about?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger:
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: That was #1=
.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: No, that's option
2. Option #1 is for the Town
Manager or whoever has the authority to resign this, if that's what it
takes. Option #2 is for the a=
pplicant,
with (inaudible) backup as to why he has the ability to sign the application
provided to us.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: But who decided=
that
the Town Manager has that authority?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: The
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I guess I can't a=
nswer
for the current Town Manager, based on the memo from the previous acting to=
wn
manager, he didn't feel he had the authority to sign it. Whether or not the new one would, I
can't answer that.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: I don't
understand why he wouldn't. H=
e's
the Town Manager. It sounds l=
ike (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: At this point,=
I
don't know what (inaudible).
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 31
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I would recommend=
that
the Commission request the applicant to pursue either one of those 2 options
that I described and then once we get that information we'll present it to
Atty. Hess and let him provide our recommendation and then the Commission i=
ll
decide okay we'll put it in the file, it's done, it doesn’t affect our
decision. I don't know if tha=
t's an
option, it sounds like it could be.
Maybe the Commission themselves, amend your application and put these
new pages in. I don't know if=
there
is a specific process that Atty. Hess would recommend we go through.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: And why are=
we
using Hess on this when we have a Town Attorney?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: The Planning and =
Zoning
Commission at the June 7, 2006 meeting appointed Atty. Hess for this
application.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well Pilicy has=
a
history because he was the former Town Attorney.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: You almost hav=
e to
get somebody who is one step removed which is not a bad idea.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I guess I'd rathe=
r not
comment on that issue if you don't mind.&n=
bsp;
I mean Atty. Hess, I will, Atty. Pilicy had provided an opinion with=
a
cover memo stating that he had briefly represented the applicant at I belie=
ve
one Z.B.A. meeting and based on that cover memo the previous town planner h=
ad
significant concerns about using Atty. Pilicy. The Planning and Zoning Commission=
based
on all of that information at the June 7th meeting decided to use Atty. Hes=
s.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Can I make a comme=
nt?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Sure, you're t=
he applicant.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I'm really surpris=
ed
about why this is an issue. T=
his
piece of land, whatever you want to call it, is owned by the public. I'm a member of the public. This piece is owned by 22,000 resi=
dents
of this Town, or any taxpayer who has property in this Town, they own this
piece. That means that I have=
to
collect like 22,000 signatures on this in order to get the property owner's
permission. The Town Manager =
is not
an owner of this piece of property.
And the reason that Mr. Nardelli wrote this memo, I talked to him af=
ter
I received this memo, and he apologized to me, he said I'm sorry that I did
this. He overreacted because =
there
was political pressure on him, there was a lot of phone calls that he recei=
ved
from the public and from 2 members of the Town Council who thought that his
signature meant that approval of that driveway on this land. His signature doesn't mean anythin=
g on
this application.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 32
&=
nbsp; It
is the Commission who makes the decision to either approve or deny this
activity. This is a wetland
activity. I have (inaudible) =
many,
many application at the Planning and Zoning Office and if you want I can go=
to
them and look at them to see that this Commission never paid attention to
signatures. You never approve=
d an
application based on somebody's signature.=
If that is something that the Town wants me to do I will do it. I choose the other alternative and=
I
will talk to my attorney to draft something and sign the application, but I=
'll
wait until Atty. Hess gives his recent opinion to make sure that I have (in=
audible)
to do this.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: So at this poi=
nt
you're saying that the applicant is going to choose that route to talk to t=
he
attorney and come up with (inaudible)?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Just to ask tha=
t he
pick one of them. He doesn't =
have
to tell us now.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: My question to this
Commission is if you make your decision based on that signature?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: No, we base it =
on . .
. .
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Or do you look at =
the
issues you review the application, you hold a public hearing, you had a site
walk, you look at the impact, you compare that to thousands of applications
that came in front of this Commission with more significant activity that y=
ou
approved. For God's sake this=
is
only some activity within a 50 foot setback area. You're reviewing an application in=
front
of you with any (inaudible) of activity within the 50 foot setback area.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Excuse me, with a=
ll due
respect.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Let me finish. Mr. Berger, I'm talking, that
application is proposing some activities within the right of way, in changi=
ng
the catch basin and everything. Is
that a public right of way? W=
hy he
is not sent to the Town Manager to get a signature? In the past 10 years that I've wor=
ked
for this town, this is the first time that I've heard that. You can call your Town Attorney an=
d ask
him if this is really required?
Does this really have to be done?&n=
bsp;
There are 22,000 people who live in this Town and they are the owner=
of
this property and I'm one of them, unless you tell me that I'm not a member=
of
this public, then I can take another route.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 33
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Let me answer t=
he
question, the question is do we base our decision on any signature? No.
we make our decision based on the facts presented for the encroachme=
nt
into the wetlands and that's it.
Pure and simple, that was the basis for the decision. As far as we're concerned the perm=
it
still stands. As Chuck pointe=
d out
this is a procedural thing which we didn't create.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: That is fine. If that is the last thing you want=
me to
do I will do it.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: We don't want =
you to
do it, but at this point . . . .
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I do have 2 thing=
s to
say. Atty. Hess is the Town
Attorney on this issue. He's =
the
one that I'm taking my guidance from.
These are not things I'm recommending; I'm recommending them from the
advice of Atty. Hess, and he's the Town Attorney on this issue. Procedural, yes, but it's required=
by
your regs, it's part of your application package and as I told the applicant
when I asked that those blanks be filled in, if they're not filled in I'm g=
oing
to have to recommend to the Commission that it's an incomplete
application. That would have =
been
my recommendation had those blanks not been filled in. I don't know what you would have d=
one
with that during the permit process, but that would have been my recommenda=
tion.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I just mention
(inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: But that didn't h=
appen.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: So that's water=
over
the dam.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: These are your re=
gs,
this is the application package, I did what the regs told me to do.<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'>
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: I guess we need=
a motion
that would request the applicant to choose one of the two alternatives stat=
ed
by Mr. Berger and get back to us?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Fill out the blank=
s and
bring it back.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Yes.
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Undercuffler, sec. Mr. Duplissie) to request the applicant to choose one of=
the
two alternatives stated by Mr. Berger and get back to us.
&= nbsp; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 34
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: When are we=
going
to hear from Hess?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I wasn't intendin=
g to
get a written opinion, I can get one, I'll get one if that's what the
Commission would like.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Isn't that =
what
we need?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Fine, I had a
conversation with him, a phone conversation, I'm relating to you what he to=
ld
me over the phone.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Tell me aga=
in,
what was it he said?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: The two options h=
ave
the Town Manager appropriately authorize, whatever that means, whether he c=
an
just sign it or whether he has to go to the Town Council, or whether he has=
to
do something else, an appropriately authorized Town Manager's signature on
that, or maybe it's not even the Town Manger, maybe it's another town offic=
ial.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Why don't y=
ou
just take it to the Town Manager and get him to sign it?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: The applicant can=
do
that. I don't think it's my j=
ob to
make the application complete?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Can you do =
that
Moosa?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I tried but there =
are
some political issues that he refused.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Option #2 is to h=
ave
the Rafey's sign the application and then have their counsel provide an
addendum as to why they're empowered to sign that form, and if that's the
option they choose, then I think we ought to have Atty. Hess' review and
approval of whatever his attorney, however they (inaudible), I don't know t=
he
legal, I don’t want to get into . . . .
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: Okay, that'=
s one
option. The other option is j=
ust to
have the Town Manager sign it. Wouldn't
that resolve the whole thing pretty quickly?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Yes.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: So if Moosa=
went
to the Town Manager and asked him to sign it and explain it, now if he has
problems with that, he'll have to deal with that.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Either one.=
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 35
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: I don't mea=
n you,
I mean if the Town Manager has a problem we can deal with that.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Either one of tho=
se
options were fine with Atty. Hess.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Undercuffler: He wouldn't=
need
anything further from Hess at that point, he's given his . . . .
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Jones: It sounds like you=
're
saying that Atty. Hess would tell the Town Manager that sir, you sign this =
form
there will be a legal decision and from my point of view that is Hess, I'll
have no objection, but this is not my decision, it is your decision.=
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I don't think it =
would
have been questioned had this memo, I mean it was signed and I didn't quest=
ion
it, you didn't question it, it wasn't questioned until after the fact and t=
hen
this came.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Jones: Well has Attorney =
Hess
said anything regarding the legal capability of our Town Manager to sign th=
at
document? Has he given an opi=
nion?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: No.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Jones: So the Town Manage=
r is
likely to go to Hess and ask can I sign this?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: (Inaudible) my bo=
unds here,
but I think the Town Manager is going to say I'm not going to sign anything
without going to the Town Council.
I think that's going to be the answer and I don't know what to say a=
bout
that. It's up to the Town Man=
ager.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Mr. Berger, did yo=
u talk
to Mr. Nardelli about the memo?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Yes.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: What did he say?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: I didn't get into
details with him. I was very
disturbed by the memo and very concerned that you and I are being accused of
misrepresenting the facts, when I don't recall having the conversation . . =
. .
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: (Inaudible.)
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: When I don't reca=
ll
having the conversation with Mr. Nardelli about this so I was very concerned
and I want to make it right for the application.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 36
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I had a meeting wi=
th Mr.
Nardelli after I saw this, and he said he was under a lot of pressure and
everybody was accusing him that his signature means the approval of that
driveway, but that doesn’t mean that.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: That doesn't me=
an
that, no.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: His signature means=
that
yes, this application can go through the process.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Right.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: His signature on t=
his application
is not the permit. It is the
decision of this Commission to approve or deny this application.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Du0plissie: Our approval =
was
not for a common driveway.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: It's nothing else.=
I know where this is coming from, I
know.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: There's just on=
e line
on the application. We made a=
motion
and it passed.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I'll wait until I =
see
Atty. Hess' recommendation.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: Does the Commissi=
on
want me to get a written opinion?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: At this point I
think we should, yes.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: And then I can fol=
low
that.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: That's right, c=
ause
otherwise he can say well I didn't say that. So you can do that.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: I'd like to kn=
ow
whether or not we were able to make a decision on the application if that w=
as
actually blank. If it were le=
ft
blank can we make a decision or is it an incomplete application?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well to answer =
your
question we have applications all the time that have blank spaces on them.<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> In fact I went through here and pi=
cked
out some tonight.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: Okay. And we approve them all the time, =
but do
we have the right to approve them if they're incomplete? Do we have the right to?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Sure.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 37
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: If there is a =
line
put through the blank space, does that (inaudible) having it go on (inaudib=
le).
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: We make a decis=
ion
based on the application, the facts presented in the presentation of the ca=
se
and what we see and not whether . . . .
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Duplissie: In regards to
inland/wetlands.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Right.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: I can give you an
example. You approved 3 or 4
applications for Public Works Department.&=
nbsp;
Mr. Cavanaugh, he was the applicant, and he also signed the
application. I can sign this,=
I am
part owner of that parcel, cause that belongs to the public and I'm a membe=
r of
the public.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: That's not a good
comparison.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: No, honestly, even=
I
question what you did tonight, I mean this motion to pick one of those, I d=
on't
know if that was legal, I don't know if you can do it. You should call your counsel and s=
ee if
you can do that.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: That came from our
counsel. That was our Town
Counsel's advise to me on the phone this afternoon.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Rafey: Okay, I don't have=
a
problem. One more step I will=
do, I
will pick one of them and take care of it.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Berger: If there are thin=
gs in
your regulations that you want to change, let's change them. Acting on an incomplete applicatio=
n is
not a good practice. I'm goin=
g to
go out on a limb and tell you that I don't recommend that at all. If there are things that should be=
part
of the application package, procedural or not, if it's not in the applicati=
on,
you shouldn't act on it or it should be, or get them out of your regs, one =
or
the other. Not a good practic=
e.
8. =
New
Business
&=
nbsp; A. Letter
to Town Council Regarding Attendance of Commission Members at meeting.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: Y=
ou
directed me to draft a letter to send to the Town Council regarding some of=
the
commission members who don't attend the meetings. If everybody agrees with this, I c=
an
have the Chairman sign the original.
Do you agree with it?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Y=
es.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 38
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: N=
o, it
would be nice to have somebody that attended so that if we do miss, we'll be
covered.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Polletta: I=
think
the worst thing to do is not have a quorum.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: It's not fair =
to us or
the public.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Thank you.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Undercuffler: By right we
really should ask for replacements.
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well the Town C=
ouncil
is responsible for appointing commission members.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: Your By-Laws state=
that
2/3 of the members have to work on this to send it to the Town Council. I think the total membership is 10
people. You don't have members
tonight.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Well the total
membership doesn't include the alternates.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: B=
ut the
By-Laws state including the alternates.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Polletta: Are we supposed=
to
have 7 members to conduct a meeting?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: A=
quorum
is only 4 members, but your By-Laws state that whenever you request the Town
Council to (inaudible) the resignation of a member, you need a 2/3 vote of =
your
membership.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: N=
ext
month if Ms. Sturgis is here, that will make 7 and we'll vote on it then.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Jones: Moosa, doesn't it =
follow
that the way you wrote this letter it can still be mailed?
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Rafey: I= will send it to them anyway but you should have a vote that you have 7 members.<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Jones: We need 7 in order=
to
ask for them to be placed (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: B=
ut
we're just voting on sending the letter right now.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Jones: We can do that.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Rafey: I=
'll
put it back on the Agenda next month.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 39
&=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION: (Mr. =
Duplissie,
sec. Mr. Polletta) that we send the letter, just present it to Mr. Pawlak,
Chairman of the Town Council.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
9. =
Communications
and Bills
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr. Zawadzki: I assume you read the whole
thing. It's actually good news
because there's less paperwork to worry about.
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr. Rafey: Plus they said that the Wetland Com=
mission
and the Planning and Zoning Commission, they have to have registry on the w=
eb
site. Even if you want to cha=
nge
the regulations, you have to have a registry to register their names to be
notified if you have a public hearing.&nbs=
p;
Then they changed the law that the Wetlands Commission doesn’t
have to do that.
&n=
bsp; B.<=
span
style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'> =
Inland
Wetlands and Watercourses Model Municipal Regulations Fourth Edition, May 1,
2006.
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: I already (inaudib=
le) copy
of the latest version of the D.E.P. Inland Wetlands and Watercourse Model
Regulations.
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr. Undercuffler: There's a lot of stuff underlined =
now,
is that changes from the last set of changes?
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: Probably. Do you want to appoint a subcommit=
tee?
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki: Yea, I' like to reappoint the
subcommittee of Ed, Glenn, and Ron to review this and report back to the
Commission as to any recommendations.
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr. Undercuffler: I can't imagine that there are tha=
t many
changes. I mean they just rev=
ised
them 2 years ago. There's an =
awful
lot of underlines there.
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: You have to read i=
t to
see.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 40
&=
nbsp; C. Northwest
Conservation District Letter dated September 15, 2006.
&=
nbsp; =
; Mr.
Undercuffler: Can we use =
them
instead of some of these others?
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr.
Rafey: On the larger
applications I prefer to use Land Tech because they have expertise. Some of the smaller applications .=
. . .
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr. Undercuffler: Have we ever used them before?
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr. Rafey: We have used (inaudible).
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr. Zawadzki: Moosa said they're not as technica=
lly
capable as Land Tech. They mi=
ght
work for less but you get what you pay for.
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr. Rafey: It depends on the application.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Duplissie: If we have 2 or 3 to do in one mon=
th,
then we can pass it off to somebody else, but at this point you're satisfied
with the return from the one that we use now.
&=
nbsp; D. Biodiversity
Conservation in Connecticut Towns by Michael Klemens, PhD.
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr. Zawadzki: If anybody is interested in going,
notify Moosa.
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr.
Undercuffler: This isn't =
like
the one we went t up in
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr. Rafey: It's about the new book that came =
out;
the author will be there to give a presentation an you can buy the book.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr.
Berger: He is a very well known wetland ex=
pert throughout
the country and a very good speaker.
(Tape #5, Side B ended - may have missed some.)
&n=
bsp;
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr.
Zawadzki: If you're inter=
ested
in going, let Moosa know.
&n=
bsp; =
; Mr. Rafey: I encourage the new me=
mbers
to attend.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 41
&n=
bsp; F.<=
span
style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'> =
The
Habitat
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Undercuffler) to accept Communications and Bills as
presented.
Discussion: None<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
10. Repor=
ts
from Officers and Committees
11. Repor=
ts
from Staff
None
12. &n=
bsp; Public
Participation
Liam Curtis,
Mr. Curtis: We do have some conc=
erns
over the request for an amendment which I believe may have been labeled
(inaudible). I was wondering =
if the
watercourse itself had been delineated and is viewable on a map?
Mr. Duplissie: A watercourse is a
watercourse, wherever it is.
Mr. Rafey: The soil scientist d=
id
delineate the wetlands.
Mr. Curtis: The reason I ask is
because to us it appears that there has been a flagrant violation to the we=
tlands
areas which I think was briefly alluded to so you mentioned that you were g=
oing
to visit the site so I would ask that you pay attention to the area around =
the watercourse.
Mr. Duplissie: Do you want to be
notified?
Mr. Rafey: We don't notify, but=
it
will be on November 11th.
Mr. Duplissie: But he doesn't know =
what time.
Mr. Rafey: Okay.
Mr. Zawadzki: You can call Moosa a=
nd
he'll tell you the time.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 42
Mr. Curtis: Okay. We did allude to an erosion proble=
m and
we've been on the property for about 6 years and the watercourse itself is =
sort
of a (inaudible) watercourse runoff from the road but we feel that now due =
to
his actions in overstepping the boundaries he's actually exacerbated the
problem and there's surface erosion now quite evident on the property which=
I
would ask you to pay particular attention to as well. Which brings me to one of the item=
s you
mentioned for remediation, which was rip rap. I'm not a soil expert but I wouldn=
't
find this to be an effective means of controlling surface erosion and runof=
f on
the designated wetland areas itself, but I think more particularly, more
personally, we feel (inaudible) overall qualities of rural wooded atmospher=
e,
the area, as well as basically our property line as well, we sign up to
(inaudible).
Mr. Duplissie: He was in front of u=
s for
this application awhile back. We
granted him permission to do "x" amount of things because we had a
large property with just a small area of upland review area. We granted a couple of items to hi=
m, but
they were specific and now we find that he has not stayed within that area
which is why without anybody getting up from the public tonight we already
discussed that we were going for a site walk to see this property. We get a little upset when somebod=
y does
something like that so we're going to go take a look, see what it is and we=
're
going to fix it. We're going =
to
find some way to get it fixed.
Mr. Curtis: What would be the re=
percussions
for something like that?
Mr. Polletta: We don't know yet.
Mr. Duplissie: Repercussions for wh=
at; we
haven't seen it. We don't com=
e here
to spend our time twiddling our thumbs and spend our nights here for no rea=
son,
we're here to protect it and he has no right to go touch anything in the
stream. We gave him no permis=
sion
to do that. He knows he's not
supposed to be in the stream.
Mr. Curtis: We're seriously conc=
erned
about the stream area, when we heard the word rip rap (inaudible).
Mr. Duplissie: Rip rap is something t=
hat
can be done to contain a stream.
They do it all the time, they did it for 40 miles of the
Mr. Curtis: Could I ask that an
alternative to rip rap be explored?
Mr. Duplissie: You can ask for anyt=
hing put
right now we have 't seen it.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 43
Mr. Rafey: I suggested that he sh=
ould
submit a cross section of the existing brook and then whatever he is
proposing. I will then give i=
t to
Mr. Berger, the Town Engineer, for his review. At that time we'll (inaudible).
Mr. Curtis: In terms of (inaudib=
le)
what would be appropriate that would just have to be an engineered solution=
.
Mr. Duplissie: If you want to come =
back
to the next meeting you'll find out.
Mr. Undercuffler: Where do you live?
Mr. Curtis: I live right next do=
or so
basically our property line is affected.
Mr. Duplissie: You sat here all night=
?
Mr. Curtis: Yes.
Mr. Duplissie: You've send what we do for applications, we had one that wants to
build a house and it's an upland review and it's a new lot. We'll find a way to make it work f=
or
him, that's what we're here for, but yet protect the wetlands, so we'll give
him some way to do that, but don't cross us because (inaudible).
Mr. Curtis: In terms of what he's
deemed as these hemlocks, we don't notice that to be the case.
Mr. Rafey: We will look at them=
.
Mr. Curtis: Thank you for you ti=
me.
13. Adjou=
rnment
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr. =
Duplissie,
sec. Mr. Polletta) to Adjourn the Regular Meeting at 11:30 p.m.
&nbs= p; Discussion: None<= o:p>
&nbs=
p; MOTION
PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 12, 2006
PAGE 44
&nbs=
p; Regular
Meeting Adjourned at 11:30 p.m.
Respect=
fully
submitted,
Ronald =
Jones,
Secretary
Conserv=
ation
Commission/
Inland
Wetlands Agency
&nbs=
p; _________________=
_________________