MINUTES
CONSERVA=
TION
COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
PUBLIC H=
EARING
JOHN TRU=
MBULL
PRIMARY SCHOOL MEDIA CENTER
THURSDAY,
FEBRUARY 9, 2006 - 7:30 P.M.
APPLICAT=
ION
#545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES
PRESENT: &nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Bernard Beauchamp
=
; &n=
bsp; =
; =
G=
len
Duplissie
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; Ron
Jones, Secretary
=
; &n=
bsp; =
; &n=
bsp; =
; Joseph Polletta
=
&nb=
sp; =
&nb=
sp; James
Zawadzki, Chairman
ABSENT: =
; &n=
bsp; =
; =
Charles
Thermer
=
&nb=
sp; =
;
ALTERNATES PRESENT: &nbs=
p; None
ALTERNATES ABSENT: =
; <=
/span>Peter Peluso
=
; &n=
bsp; =
; &n=
bsp; =
; Martha Sturgis
OTHERS PRESENT: &n=
bsp; =
; Chuck
Berger, Town Engineer
=
; &n=
bsp; =
; &n=
bsp; =
; Moosa Rafey, Assistant
Wetlands Enforcement Officer
1. =
Call
Meeting To Order
Mr.
Zawadzki, Chairman, called the Public Hearing to order at about 9:15 p.m.
2. &nb=
sp; Roll
Call
Mr.
Jones, Secretary, executed the Roll Call.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
PUBLIC HEARING
APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES
FEBRUARY 9, 2006
PAGE 2
3. =
Hearing
of Applications
&= nbsp; D. Application #545 of Big Sky Enterprises to conduct regulated activities involved in the restoration of an existing drainage swale located on the north side of Butternut Lane, Watertown, CT.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Recess
or Adjourn Public Hearing must be Closed by March 16, 2006, unless applicant
grants a time extension.
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Mr. Jones, Secretary read aloud the Legal Notice for the record:
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; The
Conservation Commission/Inland Wetlands Agency of the Town of Watertown will
hold a Public Hearing at 7:30 p.m. on Thursday, February 9, 2006 at Waterto=
wn
High School Technology Center, 324 French Street, Watertown, CT to hear and=
act
upon the following application deemed a significant activity by the
Conservation Commission/Inland Wetland Agency pursuant to Section 2.1(dd1-7=
) of
the Watertown Inland Wetlands and Watercourse Regulations.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Application
#545 of Big Sky Enterprises to conduct the following regulated activities
involved in the restoration of an existing drainage ditch/swale located on =
the
north side of Butternut Lane, Watertown, CT in an R-70 Residential Zoning
District.
=
1. Disturbance of approxi=
mately
350 square feet of regulated area for construction of a grass-lined drainage
swale which requires 7.7 cubic yards of cut.
=
2. Installation of erosio=
n and
sediment control systems within wetland and upland review area.
=
3. Discharge of storm run=
off
into wetlands/watercourse.
At this Hearing intere= sted person may be heard and written communications received. A copy of the application is on fi= le at the Planning and Zoning Office, 51 Depot Street, Suite 502, Watertown, CT.<= o:p>
Dated at Watertown, CT=
this
26th day of January, 2006.
Dated at Watertown, CT=
this
2dn day of February, 2006.
Ron Jones, Secretary
Conservation
Commission/Inland Wetlands Agency”
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
PUBLIC HEARING
APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES
FEBRUARY 9, 2006
PAGE 3
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Emily
Jones, Engineer, Civil One
Ms. Jones: =
I’m going to hand out some re=
vised
plans, the wetlands activity is exactly the same but there is a significant
change in the plans that I want everybody to see cause I’m going to
address it. We’ve been
working on this project for quite some time now. At the beginning of the process of=
this
subdivision application we did come before this Commission and it was
determined that we did not need a wetland permit because there was no wetla=
nd
related activities. We have b=
een
through Planning and Zoning, the public hearing is now closed, and we’=
;ve
been through months and months of analysis, calculations, and meetings, and
back and forth with the Town Engineer in order to satisfy all of his questi=
ons
and concerns, mostly regarding the storm water management plan which we have
done, and I also want to reiterate that there’s no increase in the ru=
noff
rates from the site and this has been analyzed thoroughly, back and forth f=
or a
very long time with Mr. Berger.
The reason that weR=
17;re
back before the Commission as I stated previously, Planning and Zoning asked
for a swale along the north side of
This in, in our minds,= kind of above and beyond the regulations because without the swale we meet the regulations. We have no incre= ase in runoff from the site, but we understand the Commission and the neighboring property’s concerns so we agreed to do this. Additionally and this is a pretty = major change on the plans, we have entirely eliminated Lot #1 from the plan. The subdivision is now a 3 lot subdivision, the lot lines didn’t change or anything like that, Lot #1 was just simply absorbed into the open space. Again we feel this goes above and = beyond the Town’s regulations in an effort to appease some of the concerns of the Planning and Zoning Commission and the neighboring properties, and we h= ope we’ve done that. And to= night we’d really like to have the public hearing for the construction of t= he swale and the activity within the regulated area, and hope that we can move= on from this, because we are still working through the Planning and Zoning process. They have closed the public hearing and are looking fairly soon to make a decision so, with that it’s pretty straightforward and I’ll turn it over to you guys.<= o:p>
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
PUBLIC HEARING
APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES
FEBRUARY 9, 2006
PAGE 4
Mr. Zawadzki: Anyone have any questions?
Mr. Jones:<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> Where you say open space on the dr=
awing,
was that where Lot #1 originally was, and then you made
Ms. Jones:<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> Yes. And originally we just had open sp=
ace on
this side of the property and now it connects all the way through,
there’s a strip over here and it’s the same open space, it̵=
7;s
all connected.
Mr. Berger:=
Just for clarification, I don̵=
7;t
think that is shown on the small size version that was handed out. Where Lot #1 used to be is now open
space. It’s shown on th=
e big
plan, but not on the little one.
Ms. Jones: The wording, open space. It’s not labeled.
Mr. Jones:<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> Can you show us where the swale wa=
s?
Ms. Jones:<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> Sure. Basically the swale starts here, j=
ust
before the improvements begin and runs down along Butternut Lane into, this=
is
the activity we’re talking about right here. We originally had it extending up =
here
because we had all these improvements on
Mr. Duplissie:<=
/b> So that’s part of why you ma=
de Lot
#1 open space because if I remember correctly there was quite a bit of stuff
that had to be done if you wanted to make that a lot.
Ms. Jones:<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> Yea, there was some on site storm =
drainage
systems, catch basins catching the runoff from the driveway and putting it =
into
infiltrators and stuff like that, and it worked, it definitely worked, but =
it
just became too difficult to pass through all of the hoops basically.
Mr. Duplissie:<=
/b> You have open space on either end =
and
you have 3 lots in the middle?
Ms. Jones:<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> That’s right.
Mr. Duplissie:<=
/b> And the only thing we’re tal=
king
about here is the 750 square feet?
Ms. Jones:<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> 350 square feet of upland review a=
rea,
7.7 cubic yards.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
PUBLIC HEARING
APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES
FEBRUARY 9, 2006
PAGE 5
Mr. Zawadzki: When you say those two open spaces=
are
connected, is that just on
Ms. Jones:<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> No, there’s a strip on the
property.
Mr. Zawadzki: There’s a walkway there?
Ms. Jones:<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> Yes.
Mr. Duplissie:<=
/b> Now that’s not a greenway or=
a
walkway, it’s not going to be a maintained walkway from open space to
open space?
Ms. Jones:<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> No.
Mr. Duplissie:<=
/b> It’s just a strip of land
that’s 10 or 20 feet wide?
Ms. Jones:<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> I think it’s 15.
Mr. Zawadzki: Is it going to be walkable, or fin=
ished
off, or leave it the way it is?
Ms. Jones:<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> It’s not, the greenway plan =
for
the Town, we’ve talked about this quite a bit and that area is steep,
going across grade, and re-grading it from the Town’s standpoint and =
the
our standpoint was a little crazy, so the Town has kind of agreed, Butternut
Lane is never really going to be an access from one end or the other, so the
trail for the greenway project comes up in about the middle of the property,
from open in the south and runs just for a short distance along Butternut L=
ane
before it goes up an existing trail in the open space but that strip is not
part of it.
Mr. Zawadzki: Anyone else? Is there anyone in the public who =
cares
to comment on this application?
=
; Mr.
Church: I’ve lived =
on
this property for 45 years, quite intimately connected as a farmer. Over the last year we’ve been
working with the Department of Agriculture, with the D.E.P. with the
conservation of this State, we’re planning to work on this. I’m very glad to see this on=
e lot
be canned. It was a disaster.=
I approached, when I had to get a
petition to make this for public hearing it was Christmas week and in 2 hou=
rs I
collected 25 signatures from all neighbors if you look at the petition and =
they
said you got to be kidding when I said they’re going to build here.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
PUBLIC HEARING
APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES
FEBRUARY 9, 2006
PAGE 6
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; I
get a big kick out of listening to this 25 year storm, 10 year storm, 100 y=
ear
storm business. I wonder if G=
od
gets just as much kick out of it and says boy, wait until they see whatR=
17;s
coming next and it’s only 10 years.&=
nbsp;
I don’t know what the October storm was, remember it, it was a
doozy. But it wasn’t as=
bad
as I’ve seen in my lifetime.
At that time, there’s 3 culverts that come onto this property =
from
Litchfield Road. I’m go=
ing to
address just one. The one com=
ing
onto Lot #1, but it’s still coning there, it’s not Lot #1 now,
it’s open space. I̵=
7;ve
taken some pictures from the January storm which was nothing as bad as the
October storm. I’m goin=
g to
show you some of these pictures and what’s coming down this road now,=
off
the Town road, not off the land, but in all the years that I’ve lived
there I have never seen water coming down all the way until the machines ca=
me
in to dig perc holes. That=
217;s
all they did, in fact they logged this piece of property about 4 or 5 years=
ago
and had no impact, because they left the dead stuff on there, they left
everything on there, that’s smart.&n=
bsp;
Let me show you the pictures.
This is runoff coming down the road now onto my property of which
I’m trying to address the problem with the D.E.P. and everything
else. This is Butternut Lane,=
and
this is my property. You can =
pass
them down. If you will take n=
ote of
this particular stream coming down the hill, okay? This is directly taken from my win=
dow,
and if you’ll notice it’s coming right through the septic syste=
m.
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Mr. Zawadzki: Is that
&nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; Mr.
Church: That was Lot #1, but
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
PUBLIC HEARING
APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES
FEBRUARY 9, 2006
PAGE 7
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; I
asked the man I’m working with at the Department of Environmental
Protection if he would speak to the Town?&=
nbsp;
He said no, I can’t.
He said I’m not allowed to unless it was a commercial
development. I said well I su=
re
would like to have you talk because I said can they do this with no
impact. He said of course not=
. You can’t replace trees, dir=
t,
wildlife, you can’t replace that with asphalt shingles and asphalt
driveways and put in retention stuff and not have any impact. Of course you’ll have impact=
. I said would you testify that if y=
ou
were subpoena. It said yes,
it’s common sense, but I can’t tell the Town that because IR=
17;m
not allowed to. I think we=
217;ve
got to look at this very, very carefully.&=
nbsp;
These aren’t going to be little houses that some poor sucker is
going to try and get in there.
These are trophy homes.
They’re not going to spend this kind of money without putting
trophy homes in. I heard this
before, when I sold the upper farm, I was told by the developer that these =
were
going to be colonial homes. G=
o by
my farm, gentlemen, it breaks my heart, it breaks my heart. The most ugly houses I’ve ev=
er
seen are built there now.
They’re building a 3 car colonial home right now on the same p=
iece
of property. I wish I had nev=
er
sold it, it breaks my heart, and I don’t want to see this happen
again. These aren’t hou=
ses
for Joe Average, these are trophy homes.&n=
bsp;
Give us a break. Thank=
you.
Mr. Sabis: I also own property on
It’s a false sta=
tement
to say that the road will never be opened.=
When Mrs. Smillie decided to put this fiasco, the thing she had down
there, I was told by the past Zoning Enforcement Officer and Commissioner, =
that
he informed Dr. Martin, when she subdivided that property, if the property =
was
ever subdivided again the road would have to be opened. This is subdividing that property.=
That property turns on both sides =
of
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
PUBLIC HEARING
APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES
FEBRUARY 9, 2006
PAGE 8
Again, I feel for Mr. =
And
Mrs. Church, cause they are the ones who are really going to suffer from
this. They are going to get d=
umped
on, and I wish you would take that into consideration. Thank you.
Mr. Polletta: I’d like to think about this a little bit.=
Mr. Rafey: Do you want to clarify a little bit that this
application is not for the subdivision in front of you, and these are all
values and concerns that they should discuss with the Planning and Zoning
Commission? This Commission i=
s just
looking to see what the impact of this swale is on the wetlands. That is all,
350 square feet of upland review area will be disturbed by construction of =
this
swale, that’s the only issue in front of this Commission. Those are all valid questions and
concerns, but you should discuss them with the Planning and Zoning
Commission. Right now this
Commission is not reviewing the subdivision, the=
y are
just looking at the impact of the restoration of that swale. If you have any questions or conce=
rns
regarding this application, please . . . . .
Mr. Zawadzki: The 3 houses that are proposed were already appr=
oved
some time ago, and all we’re here to discuss tonight is the modificat=
ion
of the swale, but the applicant will respond also, but that’s why they
took it upon themselves to eliminate
Mr. Church: Realizing as I said before I’m very, very =
glad
that Lot #1 is eliminated, but we still have to address the problem of this
river that runs down. It̵=
7;s
running across their property and it never did before. It never did before. It came onto that property but it =
never
came down the hill. What are =
we
going to do about this river?
Mr. Zawadzki: Where is that river on that map?
Mr. Church: Right in front of my house, I’m looking ou=
t my
bedroom window.
Mr. Zawadzki: So what is now the open space?
Mr. Church: It goes right through this lot and comes through
this, but who’s going to address this problem? This never happened before. I’ve had a (inaudible) on my=
property
ever since I had it, but I never had this.=
But every house we put in, these are the impacts that we’re
getting from other houses.
(Inaudible) all of a sudden all these houses, these are
(inaudible). Every house you =
put
in, gentlemen. And they all s=
ay 100
year storm, we’ll be dead by the next 100 year storm or it could be
tomorrow.
Mr. Polletta: Are these lots already approved?
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
PUBLIC HEARING
APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES
FEBRUARY 9, 2006
PAGE 9
Mr. Rafey: Not by the Planning and Zoning Commission; they =
didn’t
make their final decision on these.
Ms. Jones: They did close the public hearing and these lots
came before this Commission, way at the beginning of this process (Tape #2,
Side B ended – may have missed some). I’ve been saying the same th=
ing I
guess, it’s just I mean we did, I don’t know what to do about t=
he
existing water running across the open space. We're not putting anything there, it’s not going to change from what it is
now. I mean I feel for Mr. Ch=
urch,
he lives at the bottom of the hill, but as far as this development is
concerned, it is our responsibility to ensure that what we are doing is not
going to increase any problems for anybody in the down gradient areas and we
have done absolutely that.
I’m not yet a professional engineer, I have to wait for October
for that, but my boss signs off on these and if he is lying or if he’s
not doing the calculations correctly he loses his license. He’s a licensed professional=
, the
same as a doctor.
I just have to talk a =
little
bit about the capacity of the 12 inch pipe that comes across the road becau=
se
it’s just been brought up a couple of times. A pipe can run full and it can pas=
s an
amazing amount of water, but it can only pass the water that gets into that
pipe. I can guarantee you tha=
t pipe
is not running at capacity up on Linkfield Road, it’s half filled with
debris and there’s only about 6 inches of cover before it starts runn=
ing
over the property, so when we talk about pipe running at full capacity,
we’re talking about unlimited headwater coming into that pipe with so
much pressure that it just blasts that water through there, and while I
understand that there is water that comes across there, it skews the concep=
t a
little bit and I just have to reiterate that we’ve really gone above =
and
beyond these regulations to try and be good.
Mr. Duplissie: This swale at the bottom of this property line,
I’m looking at the bottom of the page now, will this pick up some of =
the
water that’s coming across?
Ms. Jones:<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> It won’t pick up the water f=
rom the
open space.
Mr. Duplissie: And that’s where the water is coming from,
with the pictures he just showed us.
Ms. Jones:<=
span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> It’s also coming down Linkfi=
eld
Road and then running down Butternut.
Mr. Duplissie: Correct, but so . . .
Mr. Church: Only the (inaudible) . . . . .
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
PUBLIC HEARING
APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES
FEBRUARY 9, 2006
PAGE 10
Mr. Duplissie: With the swale right now if you extended the swa=
le
onto the open space, which is on the left hand side of the drawing now would
that pick up some of that water that’s coming across?
Ms. Jones: Then we run into the issue where we’re
clearing to put in a swale and then we have more cleared area, then we can =
talk
about how much runoff is coming from that cleared area, so no matter what we
do, it’s not going to be good enough for everybody, but we’re d=
oing
what needs to be done and we’re doing more than what needs to be done=
.
Mr. Duplissie: Would it be that much of an increase though?
Ms. Jones: =
It’s an increase in earthwork=
, yes,
definitely on that property.
Mr. Duplissie: But how about in disturbed area or in wetlands?<= o:p>
Ms. Jones: Yes.
Mr. Duplissie: Is it wetlands?
Ms. Jones: No, it’s not wetlands. But it’s steep, that lot is =
steeper
than some of the rest, the open space.
Mr. Duplissie: The open space is steep right there.
Ms. Jones: Therefore the grading is more extensive.
Mr. Polletta: Because we did some testing over there already, =
did
it increase the water coming down?
You said you never had water before.
Mr. Church: Water came down, but it never came all the way d=
own
that hill. Even after the log=
ging
the water never came down the hill all the way. (Inaudible) it’s the same wa=
ter,
of course there’s an increase because of the houses on the other side=
of
the road, but just the fact that they came in and came down that hill with =
the
machine, at that swale where they came in to dig their perc tests, and came
down and went back and forth, opened up these things, there’s now a d=
itch
coming down which was not there before because even with this kind of water
that ditch is right now only about this deep. Well we just talked about Hollow
Road. You’ve got a 6 fo=
ot
culvert ditch dug there, the other side of Hollow Road we didn’t even
address that problem. You hav=
e 2
holes dug on the other side of
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
PUBLIC HEARING
APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES
FEBRUARY 9, 2006
PAGE 11
Mr. Rafey: Did you take these pictures during the storm eve=
nt
or . . . .
Mr. Church: This was about, well it was night time when it
rained, so this was about 8:00 a.m. after the storm. And this was February’s stor=
m.
Mr. Rafey: But the same day, it’s not like 24 hours o=
r .
. . . .
Mr. Church: Same day, but for at least 6 or 8 hours it ran d=
own
the hill, because it’s all coming down. It has nothing to do with her hous=
e,
I’m not saying that, but we've got to address that problem. This was a wonderful thing they di=
d,
I’m very thrilled.
That’s a 45 degree slope here. That was big. How cute, look at where the lines =
are,
here’s the ditch. We=
217;ve
absolved our self of this problem.
We’re not going to put rip rap, we’re not going to do
anything, we’re just going to (inaudible) go this way.
Mr. Duplissie: I think what happens though is that this water is
coming off the other road.
It’s coming from across their property, it’s running acr=
oss
that property, I don’t know about the other Commission members, but if
you don’t mind, Mrs. Jones, would you mind if we went and looked at t=
his
property again? Would that . . . . . I know you’ve been through 6 mon=
ths
of it.
Ms. Jones: And the timing is getting really critical. I mean if . . . .
Mr. Zawadzki: Well the public hearing can stay open until Marc=
h 16th.
Ms. Jones: No, it’s the timing for Planning and Zoning that is getting critical. I mean it was required by them tha=
t we
come back, and I just really, 350 square feet is what we’re talking a=
bout. This whole thing has gone back and
forth. I mean you have got a =
great
Town Engineer, he’s very detail oriented, so I mean if this satisfies
him, then it will satisfy God, I mean it is . . . . . it’s just, this=
is,
we’re only asking to improve this swale. I mean we could not improve the sw=
ale
and we’d still meet all the regulations, but we’re just, the sa=
me
thing as taking off Lot #1, we’re just trying to do a good neighbor
intention type thing and it’s slapping us in the face.
Mr. Zawadzki: Well my feeling is that in addressing the Commis=
sion
members, the reason we’re here tonight discussing this is for merely =
that
350 square feet of swale and no matter what, the rest of that is not going =
to
be changed, and it’s not really in front of us to discuss really so I=
don’t
really see how it would be relevant to walk out there again.
Mr. Rafey: Yes, I don’t know what this Commission can=
do
other than approving or disapproving the 350 square feet.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
PUBLIC HEARING
APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES
FEBRUARY 9, 2006
PAGE 12
Mr. Zawadzki: Because we can only approve what we’ve been
asked to approve, and it has nothing to do with the water coming down.
Mr. Duplissie: And if we don’t approve the 350 square fee=
t,
you’ll just abandon it so nothing gets approved, you’ll probably
still get your 3 lot subdivision through Planning and Zoning. Is that right?
Ms. Jones: We would hope.
Mr. Duplissie: So the only thing for us to do by right is to
approve this so that they can at least, if they do get their approval for t=
he
subdivision, that they’re going to pick up some of this water
that’s coming across this property.&=
nbsp;
That’s all we can do.
If we approve this, it’s not going to help her, but it’s
going to help you if this does get approved that there is a swale.
Mr. Church: (Inaudible.)
Mr. Duplissie: I think we should probably move to approve this.=
Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, I don’t see how it would help to go t=
ake
another look at it.
Mr. Jones: Mr. Berger, is it possible that the Town has any
responsibilities here, and if not, all just the responsibility of the new
facility here that’s being built?&nb=
sp;
It sounds to me like if the swale were a little bit extended towards
Litchfield Road, and if the swale were a little bit deeper, it may solve th=
is
problem and make everybody happy and then the question would be, you have an
expense involvement and so would the Town, but is there any way that the To=
wn
might have some responsibility here so that the problem could be resolved
amicably without anybody getting (inaudible)?
Mr. Berger: Just to clarify, I think what he, extending the
swale along
Mr. Rafey: (Inaudible), on the side of
Mr. Jones: Towards the west.
Mr. Berger: But not all the way out to Litchfield Road.
Mr. Jones: No, just far enough to capture this stream . . .=
.
Mr. Berger: And then bringing that back down along Butternut=
.
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
PUBLIC HEARING
APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES
FEBRUARY 9, 2006
PAGE 13
Mr. Jones: And then keep it on the north side of Butternut
Lane. If the road stayed ther=
e and
didn’t run cross
Mr. Church: Yea, as a matter of fact, it’s ridiculous,=
if
this is indeed open space, who owns open space? Will this revert to the Town?
Mr. Rafey: The Town of Watertown.
Mr. Church: So then the Town of Watertown all of the sudden =
is
diverting water down onto my property from this open space? Because as I s=
aid
before this swale was never there.
Mr. Berger: The Town of
Mr. Church: Yes, but it never came down over that hill.
Mr. Rafey: It’s an existing situation.
Mr. Berger: Now is there the possibility that the Town can
partner somehow in doing something different here? Sure there is. Is there money available to do tha=
t that
we can easily access? The ans=
wer to
that is no. And #2 is it̵=
7;s
not an easy problem to solve. As
Mrs. Jones was saying, as you move up along Butternut towards Linkfield to
where Lot #1 used to be, that is a very steep and almost unstable slope rig=
ht
now. I think that’s why
they’re shying away from doing any work there because as soon as you
start to do something it opens up a much larger project. Ms. Jones: Yea, it’s huge. Mr. Berger: Which in their minds isn’t warranted becau=
se
they’re not developing uphill of that anymore. Mr. Duplissie: Is there some way to stop it before it gets to t=
hat
hill? How about if we stop it=
on
the other side of the property, and that’s where it’s coning on=
to
the property, right? ThatR=
17;s
the water that’s being shed from the Town onto that piece of property=
. CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY PUBLIC HEARING APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES FEBRUARY 9, 2006 PAGE 14 Mr. Berger: No, and that’s exactly the question that
Planning and Zoning posed back to the applicant and the applicant said if
you’re going to, I have to be careful how I choose my words here, but
they weren’t interested in participating in that at all, and thatR=
17;s
when Lot #1 dropped out of the picture.&nb=
sp;
Their position basically was if we’re going to have to do a
significant drainage improvement n Linkfield Road, we’re just going to
remove Lot #1. That’s my
perspective of how we . . . . . Mr. Duplissie: (Inaudible) financial situation. Mr. Berger: Yes. Ms. Jones: The improvements on Linkfield Road, which really
should be done regardless, plus the swale would totally eliminate any finan=
cial
reason for having that lot. I=
mean
it would probably cost more than they could sell the lot for. Mr. Polletta: Are you doing any improvement on Linkfield Road?=
Ms. Jones: No. Mr. Berger:=
Well there is<=
/span>
some minor drainage outfall improvements, which are still part of the plans,
we’re still stabilizing some of the drainage outfalls across the road=
. Ms. Jones: We’re putting some rip rap plunge pools at=
the
outlet (inaudible). Mr. Polletta: I just want to say I mean I’ve been servin=
g on
different boards and commission for years, however every time there is a
subdivision, whoever comes up with the subdivision has to repair the problem
even though the Town has these problems.&n=
bsp;
It happens every day. I
honestly believe, and I hate to say this, but this should be your
responsibility because you’re developing the land so if you develop i=
t, I
think you should maybe correct it and make it right. Every subdivision that I go to, ev=
en
though the Town drains into other people’s, other people have to come=
up
with the money and fix it. Ms. Jones: In all fairness, we have 2 roads that have a
drainage problem and we’re fixing the problem along the lower road th=
at
would protect the down gradient properties and we’ve also protected t=
he
lots on our properties from the water from CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY PUBLIC HEARING APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES FEBRUARY 9, 2006 PAGE 15 Mr. Zawadzki: Let me point out, Joe, the 3 houses that are the=
re
on the map are not there physically so whatever happened to create that wat=
er
coming down that hillside which is called open space have nothing to do with
those 3 houses, so yea, the developer is developing those 3 lots, but so far
they haven’t dug a hole so that water is coming for some other reason=
, I
don’t know what the answer is, but it’s coming for some other
reason, not because of the 3 lots that are developed. Mr. Polletta: No, what I’m saying is in the past if anyb=
ody
did a subdivision and water was dumped into the subdivision somehow the
developer had to fix the problem.
As you know we’ve had a lot of cases like that, and we have a =
case
right now as we just discussed tonight that they’re going to be fixing
all the water going down to the previous subdivision that you’re work=
ing
on it so basically every year I never seen the Town spend any money, the To=
wn
doesn’t have any money, so because they never have any money
they’re not going to fix it, so whoever owns the land ends up fixing
these problems. I don’t=
know
how we can fix that. I don=
217;t
think there’s any other way to fix it. What I’m concerned about, an=
d I
believe what you’re saying, that this water was never there before, it
was very low. Mr. Church: It was, the water always came down, but it
didn’t come down the hill. Mr. Polletta: And I’m wondering if the machine disturbed
something to make this happen. How
much water was before? I mean=
right
now it’s hard for us to judge. Ms. Jones: Anyone has the right to go out and dig some perc
holes on their property and they don’t log or clear-cut, they just go=
in
and find the most open path they can and . . . . . Mr. Church: They didn’t do any (inaudible) just the fa=
ct
that they did some down the hill.
They didn’t do any ripping out, (inaudible). At one point this whole hill (inau=
dible)
from the logging. The logs go=
ing
across the bank stops the water, diverts it to two sides. Now we’re looking at all the=
se
major problems, and all we really maybe have to do is dig some side ditches
(inaudible). We’re sayi=
ng the
Town doesn’t have any money, let me go up with my backhoe, I’ll=
dig
some (inaudible). But if some=
thing
happens, who is responsible for that? I am. On Hollow Road (inaudible) end of
Trolane Road, if it becomes too much, we’ll give it to the Town. Call it open space. Mr. Rafey: Mr. Chairman, just to be fair to the applicant, I
mean the application in front of you is for the drainage swale (inaudible)
approve it, yes. I mean these=
are
issues for the Planning and Zoning Commission. I don’t know if they discuss=
ed
that with them or not. We can=
stay
here all night and discuss these issues.&n=
bsp;
Unfortunately there is nothing this Commission can do about this. CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY PUBLIC HEARING APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES FEBRUARY 9, 2006 PAGE 16 Mr. Duplissie: What might have happened here that you’re
getting this water now is back in October we did get that 9 or 10 inches of
rain in that 1 week period, and that makes a lot of new watercourses, and t=
hat
changes the flow of the water, so it could have been that and not what some=
body
else did. I’m not sayin=
g that
it is, but there are many possibilities as to why the water is running
differently now. It could be
because of the subdivision, it could be from something else, but what’=
;s
in front of us right now, she’s going to help the problem, not make it
any worse for you. Mr. Church: She’s not going to (inaudible=
) that
problem. No. She’s going to help the other
part. No question. I’m not knocking what she=
217;s
doing. That’s wonderful=
. Mr. Zawadzki: I need a motion to either close it or recess it.=
Mr. Rafey: You’re not waiting for anything. Chuck, did you have any suggestion=
s or
anything that you’re waiting for? Mr. Berger: In the area of, I believe it’s
outside the 50 foot setback area, but at the eastern end of the swale
there’s some minor disturbance to the slope, I would like some fabric=
put
on that similar to the fabric that you used on the septic systems right abo=
ve
there, better stabilizations than they would if it was all fabric. In the area where the significant =
amount
of rip rap is proposed, I’d like to have the opportunity to discuss t=
hat
further with the Engineer and see if we can’t make that a greener
solution than lining the bank with rip rap if there’s another type of
bank stabilization measures we can use there to accomplish the same
purpose. Those are both minor
technical details we can deal with. Ms. Jones: We can discuss that. I have no problem. Mr. Rafey: =
Just for information, although this=
has
nothing to do with this application, Robert Smith from the Torrington Area =
Health
District approved the location of the septic systems for those 3 lots. We have his approval letter. MOTION:<=
span
style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'> (Mr.
Duplissie, sec. Mr. Jones) to Close the Public H=
earing
for App. #545 of Big Sky Enterprises to conduct regulated activities involv=
ed
in the restoration of an existing drainage swale located on the north side =
of
Discussi=
on: =
; None
MOTION P=
ASSED
UNANIMOUSLY
CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY
PUBLIC HEARING
APPLICATION #545 – BIG SKY ENTERPRISES
FEBRUARY 9, 2006
PAGE 17
&nbs=
p; Public
Hearing Closed at 10:02 p.m.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Zawadzki, Chairman, called a Recess at 10:03 p.m.
Respect=
fully
submitted,
Ronald =
Jones,
Secretary
Conserv=
ation
Commission/
&nbs=
p; _________________=
_________________
&nbs=
p; Lynn
M. LaForme, Minutes Secretary