beagenda

MINUTES

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CONSERVA= TION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY

CONTINUA= TION OF PUBLIC HEARING

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JOHN TRUMBULL PRIMARY SCHOOL MEDIA CENTER

THURSDAY, DECEMBER 15, 2005 - 7:30 P.M.

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APPLICAT= ION #536 – ANGELO TEDESCO REAL ESTATE

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PRESENT: &nb= sp; = G= len Duplissie

= &nb= sp; = &nb= sp; Ron Jones, Secretary

= ; &n= bsp; = ; &n= bsp; = ; Joseph Polletta (arriv= ed at 7:37 p.m.)

= &nb= sp; = ; &= nbsp; Edwin Undercuffler, Vice Chairman

ABSENT: &nbs= p; &= nbsp; &nbs= p; = Bernard Beauchamp=

= &nb= sp; = &nb= sp; Charles Thermer

= &nb= sp; = &nb= sp; James Zawadzki, Chairman

ALTERNATES PRESENT: &nb= sp; None

ALTERNATES ABSENT: = ; <= /span>Peter Peluso

= &nb= sp; = &nb= sp; Denise Russ

= ; &n= bsp; = ; &n= bsp; = ; Martha Sturgis

OTHERS PRESENT: &n= bsp; = ; Moosa Rafey, Assistant Wetlands Enforcement Officer

1. = Call Meeting To Order

Mr. Zawadzki, Chairman, called the Public Hearing to order at 7:30 p.m.

2. &nb= sp; Roll Call

Mr. Jones, Secretary, executed the Roll Call.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

CONTINUATION OF PUBLIC HEARING

APPLICATION #536 – ANGELO TEDESCO REAL ESTATE

DECEMBER 15, 2005

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Mr. Zawadzki, Chairman, read aloud the ground Rules for the record as follows:<= o:p>

Ground Rules

1.&n= bsp; The applicant or his representative will make his formal presentation to the Commission stating the proposed regulated activities, the wetland impacts, and the alternative that was proposed by t= he applicant.

2.&n= bsp; All comments, discussions, observations shall be ma= de through the Chair, after proper recognition by the Chairman. This is necessary to ensure that o= nly one person at a time speaks on any issue, thus making it easier for everyon= e to understand and for clearer legal transcription.

3. All persons addressing= the Commission shall begin by first clearly stating their name and address for = the record. If necessary the pers= on may be asked to spell his name for the record.

4. Following the presenta= tion of the application, the Conservation Commission/Inland Wetland Agency will = ask specific questions of the applicant.

5. After the Commission h= as asked its questions of the applicant, I shall then allow any member of the public who wishes to speak either in favor of the application or against it= to address the Commission.

6. I shall then allow the applicant to respond to the comments of the members of the general public.<= o:p>

7. I shall then allow any members of the general public who wish to present any additional informatio= n or clarifying discussion to do so.

8. I shall then provide an opportunity for the applicant to respond to these additional remarks if he = or his representative so wishes.

9. The Conservation Commission/Inland Wetland Agency has 35 days from the date of the public hearing commences to complete the public hearing. The Commission may ask the applica= nt for a 35 day extension of the public hearing if the Commission requires any additional information or wishes to schedule a site walk to observe the situation for themselves.

10. The Conservation Commission/Inland Wetland Agency has 65 days from the date that the public hearing is closed to render its decision.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

CONTINUATION OF PUBLIC HEARING

APPLICATION #536 – ANGELO TEDESCO REAL ESTATE

DECEMBER 15, 2005

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3. = Hearing of Applications

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&= nbsp; A. Continuation of Public Hearing from November 10, 2005, Application #536 of Angelo Tedesco Real Estate for construction of Section II of Oakwood Acres Subdivision consists of 21 building lots and extension of Pine Ridge Drive, Oakville<= /st1:City>, CT.

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&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Recess or Adjourn Public Hearing must be Closed by Dece= mber 15, 2005, unless applicant grants a time extension.

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&= nbsp; &nbs= p; Paul Benevich, Engineer, Land Data Engineers

Mr. Benevich: The plan was, the start of the public hearing la= st month, some comments that the Commission had about wetland impact, the way = it was addressed on the main plans, we rearranged the lots and moved the deten= tion pond completely out of the wetlands so there is no direct wetland impact in= to the wetland soils. The pond a= s I stated last time is a 2 compartment wet pond under the 2004 Water Quality Standards which we discussed at length last time. I also have David Lord, the Soil Scientist who flagged the wetlands, has also had some experience with these= wet ponds, and he’ll be able to tell you a few things about his experienc= es with them. In discussion with= Chuck Berger, the Town Engineer, we’ve added a number of additional silt fence, water breaks on the access drive down to the detention pond and a few other empty tracking areas and other features as requested. All of the lots are going to have at least their roof leaders go into the drainage system and t= hen into the detention pond. Some= of the lots will have footing drains that can’t make the grade into the road, the drainage system, and therefore are going to have infiltrators for= the footing drains alone on the lots which will eliminate any direct runoff from the houses into the regulated area, everything will be directed into the detention ponds, and I said it’s a water quality wet pond that we are proposing. Mr. Rafey asked me= to add a 50 foot conservation easement on the north side of the property along= the backs of lots #2 through #6, down towards the detention pond and we’ve complied with that on these plans. In addition to the 50 foot conservation easement we had against the (inaudible) west boundary against the Cercemaggiore property on lots #9 thr= ough #12 (inaudible). And thatR= 17;s pretty much it. Is there any questions or comments?

Mr. Duplissie: On your plans it says you have the silt fence an= d it says limit of disturbance with your silt fence, except that you’ve stockpiled on topsoil (inaudible) so how do you get the topsoil (inaudible)= ?

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

CONTINUATION OF PUBLIC HEARING

APPLICATION #536 – ANGELO TEDESCO REAL ESTATE

DECEMBER 15, 2005

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Mr. Benevich: Well most of the site is open field so technical= ly it is not going to be vegetation disturbed, (inaudible) placement of the topsoil, obviously. But that’s, (inaudible) oversight I can change the limit of disturbance f= or you. There’s no (inaudi= ble).

Mr. Duplissie: I’m just wondering how you’re going = to handle that (inaudible).

Mr. Benevich: Well there will be silt fence around the topsoil stockpile, that’s one of the details that Mr. Berger wanted us to put= on the plan, that’s standard, and the seeding, with rye grass the stockp= ile is not going to be used within a month, to be seeded within 7 days if the p= ile is not going to be used in a month.

Mr. Duplissie: Are you going to move the stuff (inaudible) limi= t of disturbance or (inaudible) the silt fence further down?

Mr. Benevich: Well there will be silt fence around the stockpi= le, that’s part of the requirements of the E & S Guidelines of erosion and sediment control also (inaudible) so the silt fence will be around the stockpile, they won’t just be sitting there with no erosion control.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> If you want the limit lines to inc= lude the stockpile (inaudible) we can do that.

Mr. Duplissie: It’s not going to (inaudible) there? You’re going to have to move= the silt fence accordingly (inaudible).

Mr. Benevich: <= /b> No, there will be a separate silt f= ence for the stockpile itself, the stockpile will have it= 217;s own silt fence on the downhill half of the stockpile.

Mr. Rafey:<= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> The limit of disturbance area is t= hey removed the topsoil from the site. But behind that point where they want to put the stockpile, they’re going to remove the topsoil; everything is just (inaudible).<= o:p>

Mr. Duplissie: Putting it to that area.

Mr. Rafey: Yes. And then they will (inaudible).

Mr. Zawadzki: So it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re not driving up with bulldozers or backhoes?=

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

CONTINUATION OF PUBLIC HEARING

APPLICATION #536 – ANGELO TEDESCO REAL ESTATE

DECEMBER 15, 2005

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Mr. Benevich: Well obviously (inaudible).

Mr. Duplissie: I prefer to have your silt fence, I mean if you don’t mind making it job, you go around the area that you’re go= ing to drive to get back and forth to, I prefer that.

Mr. Benevich: Right, no I understand what you’re saying. You’re just say= ing that there is a detail on there, it shows that t= here will be silt fence around it, I didn’t put it on the erosion control.=

Mr. Duplissie: No it does say that, it says that there will be = silt fence around it, but it is beyond the silt fence area by 75, 80 feet so I’m just wondering how you’re going to get back and forth.=

Mr. Rafey: You can bring it close to the silt fence and then put the silt fence around it. You have a fall away from the edge of disturbance, if you can bring it closer around that field.

Mr. Benevich: Right, we don’t have any problem with that= .

Mr. Duplissie: Cause you’re not stripping (inaudible) det= ail?

Mr. Benevich: No, not at all.

Mr. Duplissie: You’re not stripping anything past that, it’s just an area to, for the area that you are stripping you’re going to stockpile it all in that one spot that you’re showing.<= /o:p>

Mr. Benevich: Right.

Mr. Zawadzki: And this access way to the detention pond, how is that constructed?

Mr. Benevich: Well it’s eventually going to be the grass pavers that the Town requested, but it’s just topsoil strips and grav= el place for the (inaudible) construction vehicle. Like you said, there are some wate= r bars along there that Mr. Berger requested cause it’s a long steep run and there’s space that rains so (inaudible) for the erosions (inaudible).=

Mr. Zawadzki: Chuck, do you have any comments?

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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APPLICATION #536 – ANGELO TEDESCO REAL ESTATE

DECEMBER 15, 2005

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Mr. Berger: Since our last meeting I met with Paul twice to review comments as it’s developed and other than some possibly minor technical details like putting the limits of disturbance around the stockpi= le areas, we had discussed these plans, but I hadn’t seen the final plans (inaudible) technical issues left to be resolved.<= /p>

Mr. Zawadzki: Yea, it’s a very small impact here and . .= . . .

Mr. Rafey: I have a question for Mr. Lord actually regarding the wet bottom detention pond, they propose 4 fe= et of standing water (inaudible)? I= think they support 4 feet and I don’t know what the need is for 4 feet of water.

David Lord, Wetland Scientist=

Mr. Lord: The 4 foot depth and the depth (inaudible) low f= low outlet port was a value calculation based on the water quality needs for the detention basin. As Paul ment= ioned it’s taken out of the 2004 Water Quality Manual. There is a volume of storage that = has to take place in some areas, if you will, constructed below the low flow outlet port, that’s referred to as the water quality volume, that’s the need based on the configuration of the detention basin that area or sump ar= ea below the low outlet port needs to be 4 feet deep to give us the capacity to store that water quality volume. The area around the edge of that low flow outlet port is the area th= at would be vegetated with the wet mix type seeding. The 4 feet of water will not allow= the vegetation to establish in that so it would be an open water area generally 2 to 3 fee= t is maximum for establishing vegetation. This particular area will have a m= aximum of 4 feet of water but that water level will vary, some of it will infiltra= te through the bottom and the sides of the basement and it gets to the groundw= ater just as rainwater does now, so you won’t necessarily have a permanent= 4 feet of water in there but that’s the volume calculation and thatR= 17;s the reason for the depth of water. It will remain as a 4 foot water area because of the depth of water quality.

Mr. Rafey: 4 feet of water discourages the growth of wetland plants in that area.

Mr. Lord: It discourages the growth of just about anything, except maybe bottom vegetation and aquatic.

Mr. Zawadzki: And carp.

Mr. Lord: Conceivably, although again I don’t know t= hat this will have 4 feet of water in it on a permanent basis cause again it’s not going to necessarily function in that way.<= /span>

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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Mr. Rafey: And you agree with that 4 feet of water (inaudible)?

Mr. Lord: Well again, based on the standards of the water quality manual, it creates an open water type water quality basin. It’s a little bit different = than some of the ones that I worked on that basically establish vegetation in the bottom of the basin, but this one, again it meets the requirements for water quality storm water quality renovation and driven by the residence time in = that sump area, that first flush of water goes into the sump area before there’s any discharge out of the detention basin and you have a biological activity that takes place in that sump area which gives you the water quality renovation process so yes it does work, it just won’t h= ave vegetation as you may be familiar with in other detention basins that have either shallow water depths or no water persistent in them, that have vegetation all the way through the bottom.= It’s just a different type of water quality basin.<= /span>

Mr. Zawadzki: Will 3 feet work?

Mr. Lord: <= span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt'> 3 feet and you’re pushing the number and the diversity of plants that you’ve put in. If the emergent vegetation is one = that you basically don’t want to have any more than 2 feet of water, 1 to 2 feet is the maximum to have a planted bottom in the detention basin.

Mr. Duplissie: But there are times when this basin will be dry?=

Mr. Lord: At 4 feet I doubt that it will be dry. It will probably be moist, it may = not have standing water in it all the time, it may only have shallow water in i= t, but again that’s all part of the process for the water quality function. If the water moves = out of the basin, it infiltrates into the ground, that’s part of the process= of the way the system is supposed to work.&nb= sp; It’s supposed to have enough residence time in that sump area = to allow for either the infiltration into the ground or just stay there long enough until it gets pushed out by the next storm event.<= /p>
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Mr. Duplissie: How many gallons of water are we talking when we= say a 4 foot depth?

Mr. Benevich: I can look the calcs up, it’s about 11,800 cubic feet. It’s about a quarter of an acre foot, about 80,000 gallons.

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

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DECEMBER 15, 2005

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Mr. Duplissie: Okay.

        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Benevich: I just want Mr.= Lord to show the Commission the site that we’re on, there are actually 2 ponds right down in the back here that function as wat= er quality ponds. (Inaudible.) I just want to show the Commission.

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Lord: Back in 1999 when I worked on the project for building the school, (inaudible) detention basin = is in the far back western part of this we’re building. That one does have a relatively sh= allow sump area, because it has a broad flat bottom area, but that’s what t= he basin back where it was originally designed for back in 1999, that’s a short period of time after that. I have worked on a number of these types of detention basins throughout the State. If you want some examp= les or want to go and visit some of these, I’d be happy to give you some examples of where they are around the State, but you’ve got one right here that you can take a look at also.

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Benevich: But of course that one was develop= ed before the 2004 Water Quality Standards so there might have been a need for that to be deeper.

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Lord:= Right, that one has many of the sa= me design principles, the sump area is based on a volume calculation, the storm water quality manual that’s in effect now when it’s used as a r= eference now has a size storm frequency and volume calculation that uses a slightly different parameter, but it’s basically the same volume, you’re looking for that first flush of runoff from a large percentage of the storm events that occur in any given year to have residence in the bottom of the detention basin before it actually discharges.

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie: And this is the 3:1 sl= ope on the size of the basin?

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Benevich: Yes, we’ve maintained the 3:1 slope which the Town requires for maintenance and design criteria and deten= tion ponds in the subdivision regulations, so it’s 3:1.<= /p>
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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie: And there̵= 7;s no fence around it?

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Benevich: No.

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie: With a 3:1 slo= pe we don’t have to worry about anybody tumbling in?

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Berger: A 3:1 is a walkable slope, it’= ;s not necessarily gradual but it’s a . . . . .

CONSERVATION COMMISSION/INLAND WETLAND AGENCY=

CONTINUATION OF PUBLIC HEARING

APPLICATION #536 – ANGELO TEDESCO REAL ESTATE

DECEMBER 15, 2005

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Duplissie: Not a cliff.

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Mr. Zawadzki: Let the record show that Mr. Polle= tta arrived about 7:40 p.m. Okay,= are there any questions from the Commission?&n= bsp; Is there anyone from the public who wishes to speak regarding this Application? Any other comments by the Applicant?

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        &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   MOTION:       (Mr. Duplissie, sec. Mr. Undercuffler) to Close the P= ublic Hearing for App. #536, of Angelo Tedesco Real Estate for construction of Section II of Oakwood Acres Subdivision consists of 21 building lots and extension of Pine Ridge Dr= ive, Oakville, CT.

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Discussi= on: = ;      None

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MOTION P= ASSED UNANIMOUSLY

  &nbs= p;         Public Hearing Closed at about 7:50 p.m. (no time given).

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Respect= fully submitted,

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Ronald = Jones, Secretary

Conserv= ation Commission/

Inland Wetland Agency

  &nbs= p;         _________________= _________________

  &nbs= p;         Lynn M. LaForme, Minutes Secretary