JOINT MEETING
AND
BOARD OF
EDUCATION -
ATHLETIC=
S AND
FACILITIES SUBCOMMITEE
JOHN TRU=
MBULL
PRIMATY SCHOOL -
TUESDAY,=
MARCH
22, 2005, 7:00 P.M.
PRESENT: &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Public
Buildings Committee
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; John
Chipko
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Peter
Dzioba
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Anthony
Fusco
Robert Porter, Chairman
ABSENT: = &nb= sp; Remo Ceniccola, Vice Chairman
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; &= nbsp; &nbs= p; Karl Kuegler, Secretary
John Orsini
PRESENT: = Board of Education's Athletics and= Facilities Subcommittee
= ; &n= bsp; = ; &n= bsp; Victor Vicenzi, Chairman
ABSENT: &= nbsp; &nbs= p; Charles Fenn
= ; &n= bsp; = ; &n= bsp; Jim Marks
OTHERS PRESENT: = ; Elizabeth Berman, Kaestle Boos Associates
=
; &n=
bsp; =
; &n=
bsp; Rene
Higgins, Kaestle Boos Associates
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &=
nbsp; Marylu
Lerz, Principal,
= ; &n= bsp; = ; &n= bsp; Todd LoFrese, Board of Education, Director of Operations
= ; &n= bsp; = ; &n= bsp; Fred Khericha, Kaestle Boos Associates
&= nbsp; &nbs= p; &= nbsp; &nbs= p; Rusty Malik, Kaestle Boos Associates
1.&nb= sp; Convene Special Meeting - 7:00 P.M.
Mr. Porter, Chairman, Called the Meeting to Order at 7:15 p.m.
Mr. Vicenzi, Chairman, Called the Meeting to Order at 7:15 p.m.
2.&nb= sp; Roll Call
Mr. Porter, Chairman, executed the Roll Call.
Mr. Vicenzi, Chairman, executed the Roll Call.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 2
3. =
Discussion
Regarding Review of Internal Finishes for the
&= nbsp; Mr. Porter: What we're lookin= g for on interior finishes obviously is something that's durable, low maintenance, cost effective. Don't think y= ou've heard that before.
&= nbsp; Ms. Berman: I think I have. I've put a little party favor in f= ront of all of you and you'll notice down at the bottom one of our goals for the project is low maintenance, long lasting materials. Life cycle cost versus initial cost. The staff at Swift aske= d that the corridors be done in rubber for just that purpose. You don't wax it, you just buff it= and clean it. The costs over time= bring it down and it's going to last forever.&nb= sp; But we'll get back to that later. A controlled color palette so that = you're not holding on to a (inaudible). And renewable resources that promote a healthy interior environment. In other words t= hings that are going to out (inaudible) and provide any sort of nastiness towards= the building, and certainly things that aren't going to end up in landfill (inaudible) something that we at Kaestle Boos try to aspire for as well.
&=
nbsp; But
getting back towards the top of the page there, Marylu has quite the job to
blend two schools, two populations, two cultures; we have quite the job to
blend 3 buildings, this new building that we're providing you, you're 1970's
addition to the building and the original 1950's addition to the building.<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> We've already had meetings where w=
e've
talked about the front of the building and the new student entrance to the
building, making them equally attractive and having a common vocabulary.
&= nbsp; We're going to talk about the main entry experience first. Just as you wanted the exterior of= the building to be very welcoming and pleasant looking, we wanted to bring that aesthetic inside the building. I've done some quick little sketches, mine are not quite as good as our regulars, but I think they will provide the idea.&nb= sp; As you come into this area, and this area, I've got two sketches I'm going to walk around with, at the front entrance right as you come in, into that main area . . . .
&= nbsp; Mr. LoFrese: (Inaudible).
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 3
&= nbsp; Ms. Berman: Exactly. And this is the doors into the auditorium and this is your new skylight and that's your new logo for the floor. We've brought a consis= tent pallet through the school that is composed of the blue and the green that y= ou asked us to provide throughout the school.= The yellow that you see here is meant to compliment the existing bri= ck that's in the existing school. The corridors, as you come through, 90% of the school, all of this area here, h= ere, and here is all the existing blond brick that's going to be patched to match wherever needed so no maintenance in through there in terms of just cleaning the brick. And this area back= in through here we're going to bring that same color through in the walls. What you see before you, we were t= alking about making the building read as one and having the windows come through a= nd be the same throughout, that same Swift green is going to appear on all the windows, on all the framing at the canopy structures at the front and the b= ack of the building, they're very consistent through there.
&= nbsp; And then all of this area that you see colored here is our rubber tile. Now you see this big piece of spec= kled blue tile here, this is a hammered finish rubber tile. What you see directly in front of = it is what you see in the building right now, which is a raised pastille which is= a little (inaudible) but more difficult to clean and is shiny and you see som= e of the dirt and dust and such, as you can see you get a nice finish off of the= speckled tile that is a little bit more matte in nature so you see a lot less dirt a= nd a lot more color within that. W= hat you see here, the green, the blue that you see on the floor there and the yellow here, are the colors that you see represented in this (inaudible) he= re and you'll see that this angle of the new front entry is repeated through t= he building at all of the locations where we've added onto the building, here = at the next for the 6th grade area of this branch and at the entrances into the new area that's 3 story. And = I've just sort of cut it through to add to the, they'll figure that out about 2 years after the project out there.
&= nbsp; You'll also see that there's a brand new stairwell that you've had in there and wh= at we've done is taken the form of that stairwell and tried to bring it through the building so that in the existing area here it acts to identify the entrances to all of the classrooms. In the area by the media center we changed it slightly so that the green, blue, green, blue accents the entries into the media center. We shi= fted colors. We come down towards = the gymnasium, each area has its own flavor but its going back to the same theme and variations. When you get into= this nest area down here where you have the narrowest corridors, and we wanted to make those areas feel wider, feel more welcoming and brighter, so we brough= t a brighter colored floor and put the pattering down the center so that it has more of a wide feel. Right now you've got the very dark floor in there and if you look at photographs of t= hat area, the floor just sort of drops out and it gets very dark in through her= e so this should brighten that area up. And that same vocabulary is repeated in = the new "A" area and up above that exactly the same.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 4
&= nbsp; We've done a variation on that, when you come down to the kitchen area here, and cafeteria, as you come into this building here, as you come in this zone ri= ght here off of this student entry the kids on the main level up here will be a= ble to see down towards the entry there and so what you're seeing in this patterning right here cause we didn't want to just put plain glass up there, tempered glass, we wanted to bring those colors into the glazing as well, so what you will see up top there and at the front area right by the entrance = into the refurbished auditorium are what are called echo resins. This is about 42% more shatter pro= of than glass, they could drill through it before it would break, in fact it's quite easy to drill through. = The colors again, repeating the yellow, blue, green, the curve which you see repeated in some of the carpets and in this product are meant to signify fl= ight because one of the major things we talked about also was branding the school and bringing the eagle and bringing the concept of flight, and rather than = just having the logo everywhere, and certainly it's going to be on all of your signs, and I think putting it right in the front lobby cut out of the rubbe= r is going to be quite the same and directly below the new skylight, but I can h= and this around so you can do the touch feel thing. Obviously we put the (inaudible) t= o the first floor level so that it can be easily cleaned.
&= nbsp; Mr. Porter: How long has that= been around?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: That product? Threeform has been in business for=
the
last 12 years. I've used it on several other projects. It is a Class A material. It's used a lot in store design an=
d it's
pretty shatter proof. It's not
going to break that way. I wo=
uld
use a 3/8 inch; that's 1/4 inch that you see there so it would be a little
thicker than that. And the pr=
ice is
less than tempered glass.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Fusco: Is that a plastic =
base?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: It's a resin. It's a polycarbonate resin. The really, really thick version o=
f that
is used in police stations, and we would be using this as sort of a standard
finish on the colored units which is going to resist scratching, so it shou=
ld
hold up better than glass and still give you a little bit more rhythm and c=
olor
as you're walking down the corridor. In fact, as you're coming down the
corridor, this area right here is centered directly in front of you so you =
will
see a nice view directly in front, not just glass there, and I wanted to ma=
ke
sure that people who are a little touchy about height with the color there =
and
the rhythms there, it's much easier to stay back from that if you have any =
fear
of height.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Fusco: In square footage,=
how
much of that stuff is going to be used?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: I think I figured=
it
out to 16 4 x 8 sheets.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 5
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Fusco: As far as from col=
d to
hot, what . . . . .
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: It won't shatter.=
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Fusco: I don't mean shatt=
er,
but how much heat will it produce as far as morning sun, is there a lot of =
reflection
for heat, or in reverse, in cold, how much draft will you get from the wind=
ow
itself?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: It's only being u=
sed on
interior windows so the only places it's really being used is right here at=
the
overlook to the front entry there, it's being used right here as a decorati=
ve
element to tie the two together at the entry. We've got a little bit of it right=
along
here where we needed to replace the windows at what was the old media cente=
r,
and you've got those full length glass areas. We wanted to (inaudible) the lower =
areas
so that when the kids are sitting at the computers you can't see them.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: Are both sides o=
f this
going to be accessible from the outside?&n=
bsp;
One of the concerns that I would have is that the custodians are goi=
ng to
have a fit if they're going to have to try and clean this.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: I would put the f=
lat, that's
the only one that has dimension to it.&nbs=
p;
I would put the flat side on this side so that when they are putting
their cleaning stuff on a pole, they can just do that.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Lerz: So this will be the=
side
(inaudible)?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yes, and the view
through it, you'll still get the dimension from both sides.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Lerz: So the custodians c=
lean
this side?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Right. I've used it upside down as a
transaction top on a desk and it held up quite nicely. As we go forward the area of the
auditorium is going to feel, the walls are going to feel much like they do =
now,
we're going to refinish and replace the wood paneling that is damaged. We're going to darken up the panel=
ing a
little bit to give it a little more richness, a little more redness, and pu=
t in
new sconces along the side of the room.&nb=
sp;
Now you see all this plan that there is a green center and blue arou=
nd
the edge and (inaudible). I w=
as at
work with this.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 6
&=
nbsp; As
you know the chairs are now going to be set so they're side aisles rather t=
han
partial side aisles and the carpeting in that room that we're proposing is =
this
one right here, which as you can see when you see it next to the carpet the
continuation of the same sort of color and as you get to the back of the ro=
om. I'm going to pass this around. This is a system whereby the 3 inch
padding for the acoustical properties that you need at that full back of the
room which right now is pegboard with fiberglass behind it, this is just
taking, it's a clip system so that if the fabric ever becomes loose, there'=
s a special
tool and they just retuck it. If it
ever gets damaged it can be pulled out and replaced. The fabric that I'm recommending f=
or
that, as you can see, is a good match to the wood, it gives a little bit of=
a
shine. It's $18.00 yard and w=
hen
you are assessing the durability of fabrics, typically you put it through t=
he
Weisenback test and to be a heavy use product you have to go past 30,000 do=
uble
rubs, this one is 150,000 double rubs so it's a very strong fabric as
well. I'll pass this around.<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> And in the center there, getting b=
ack to
the colors, what we would present is to use both of these fabrics for the
(inaudible) with the green chairs done in the center and the blue chairs do=
ne
from the entrance, as you can see it matches the blue in the carpet.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: That blue carpeti=
ng,
where is that Todd?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: That's (inaudibl=
e).
&= nbsp; Ms. Berman: Yea, right now it= 's (inaudible) and that whole floor is going to get reset too cause right now the existing curve to that just sort of makes a dip and it doesn't meet the A.D.A. and i= t doesn't do a series of things that we need it to do. That's all going to get repoured.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> It goes down like that. Any questions on the (inaudible)?<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: Is the reason for=
the
carpeting being used on the flooring, is that for acoustics also?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yes. You would use it just in the corrid=
ors,
not underneath the seats.
Underneath the seats we're just going to put a sealer on the
concrete. Typically I put a t=
int to
the sealer or a paint on that, depending on what your choices are on that, =
so
you're going to have a colored hard surface directly under the seats, and t=
hen
just coming down the corridors and in front of the room, by here, so it's j=
ust
around the perimeter of the space that you have carpeting in there.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: Do you know roug=
hly
what the width of those corridors are on the side? Is it less than 6 feet?
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 7
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yea, and the carp=
et
comes in 6 foot rolls and the backing is quite thick so the actual cleaning=
of
it is pretty easy. As you com=
e into
the media center I would propose to use that same carpet, but we're going to
stripe it down the middle with this green carpet that you see next to it on=
the
board here. The reason for th=
at, I
think you're all pretty aware that we're converting what was your
cafeteria. If memory doesn't =
serve,
this is what your cafeteria looks like right now, it's sort of the angst of
middle school with that one lone chair sitting by the column there. It's pretty bleak, it's very squar=
e. What we're recommending to do, that=
same
view, is beef it up a little, with just a single curved ceiling area that g=
oes
through the middle of the space. There's
several different companies out on the market that make this sort of thing,=
all
the major ceiling companies do. Basically it's a metal ceiling tile
that's perforated. The edge t=
rim
goes up and down, this happens to be 4 inch but we'd be using 2 inch edge, =
and
that edge would be the dark Swift green again, so that that area really sta=
rts
to take on a different character at that point than it would if we just kep=
t it
plain. We're going to put some
large column covers on those central columns that come down through here and
set those up as computer kiosks so that the kids can come up and work at a =
standing
height at the computers. This=
was a
request that they had, and then off to the side there in the area where your
kitchen was, is going to be their research pod, and basically there's going=
to
be 30 something computers around the perimeter there and we'll drop the cei=
ling
in that area, and therefore bring down the noise from clicking fingers. And just keep it very clean. We brought the window line down in=
that
area so a lot more daylight comes into the area.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: That material you=
're
using, what's the cost of that versus the standard ceiling?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Standard ceiling,=
well
this is a mineral fiber tile that you have over your head, maybe $1.50
installed with a (inaudible). What
we're using throughout the building is fiberglass tile, (inaudible) so that=
's
about $1.75 per square foot. =
The
reason we've gone to that, aside from much better acoustics, this gives you
maybe an NRC of 65, that's an NRC of 80 or 90 depending on (inaudible) is a=
bove
it. And whereas if you just r=
un
your finger over this, I know that you've dealt with failing ceiling tile in
other buildings where you get the water spotting and stuff, with a fibergla=
ss
tile the water can run through that, you can scrub the surface. You won't have to replace it on an=
ywhere
near the same schedule. I hav=
e a
piece by my desk that I personally have soaked overnight in a tub of water,=
brought
back out, it's been fine. I've
thrown walls against it, it's been fine.&n=
bsp;
It's used often times in gymnasiums. The code is changing relative to t=
he
acoustics in classrooms and so we're trying to be on the front of that curv=
e to
provide you better acoustics within the classrooms.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: Now I'll go back =
to my question.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 8
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: I'm sorry, I didn=
't
answer your question, I apologize.
A product like that coming across there you're probably looking at $=
4.00
to $5.00 a square foot and we're only doing this in the center area of the
media center because it should be so prominent an area.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: How about mainten=
ance?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: It's a metal tile=
, much
like that. There's any number=
of
profiles that are available, tiny dots, bigger dots, square dots.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: Dust on top?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Dust on top shoul=
dn't
be a problem. If there is dus=
t on
top, you're never going to see it any more than you see dust on top of thes=
e.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: Dust coming throu=
gh the
tiles, through that material?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: So it won't stay =
on there.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: No, I'm looking a=
t the
maintenance of it.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yes, it should be=
quite
easy. There's really nothing =
you
really need to do, throw the vacuum up at it occasionally. You're not going to dent it.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: That's not going =
to
happen. They're not going to =
dust
the ceiling.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: I don't think it's
going to be a problem is what I’m saying.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: How big is this =
going
to be?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: It's 8 feet wide =
just
running the width of the roof.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: How does it tie i=
nto
the rest of the ceiling?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: It hangs below it=
. We've got an area, we want to rais=
e the
ceiling in these areas, up to 10 feet, and there's a strip of structure here
that we really can't get to, so that area is going to be lower, and rather =
than
having a visible bump out there, we figured we would celebrate that activity
and tie these columns together.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: Is there any othe=
r area
you're using that in?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Absolutely not.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 9
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: Todd, what do you=
think
about the maintenance?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: Is there any lig=
hting
in it?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: Well the lighting =
is
above it.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: What's the quanti=
ty of material
we're talking about?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: We're talking may=
be at
most under $5,000 worth of area there.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: This is more of =
what
you're actually talking about.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yea, what's right=
on
the cover there, is really the application that we're looking to (inaudible)
and it's 2 x 2 foot tiles so you're just providing a framed opening at the
column area.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: It's not like, i=
t's
not sandwiches, it's just that one sheet on the bottom? (Tape #1, Side A ended - may have =
missed
some.) I would say it's somet=
hing
they would have to vacuum.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: It's wider than,
typically when you look at (inaudible) type fixture, dust accumulates on th=
at
and you really do this as a once in a long time, maybe in the Summer when y=
ou
do a thorough cleaning that's when you would do it, because again it's a
controlled environment and they're only using it in the media center, so it=
's really
an air conditioned, controlled environment where you're not going to have a=
lot
of dusts in there. The idea is
again is to carry that, the whole idea of the flight and also just having
accent space, trying to simplify most of the rest of the building, so we're
just picking and choosing some areas where we create some points of interes=
t. It also, in a space like the media
center, provides them acoustical variation which is always good to have fro=
m a
sound perspective.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yea, and in fact =
you
can get it with a sound backing on it (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Lerz: And what will it lo=
ok
like?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Sort of like that=
, only
along the edge we're going to do it in your green.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: So this would go
basically straight down the center of the room between those columns?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yea, right at the
columns, exactly what you see in that little sketch.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 10
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: You'll have stand=
ard
ceilings throughout the whole ceiling and this will just hand down?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Absolutely.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: So it looks like=
a
little canopy covering these little computer pod areas.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Precisely, and in=
fact
I got the idea talking to your media center specialist who said, can we have
our umbrellas over the computers, can we have something fun going on in the
ceiling, can we have something, not just a plain Jane space?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Higgins: It's creating an
aesthetic kind, you'll find (inaudible) zig zag over it, so this is creatin=
g an
aesthetic area but a different form (inaudible) hanging.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Fusco: It will look like a
flying carpet.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yes, exactly, it =
sends
them off on a trip.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Chipko: In regard to the =
6th
grade pod, what are the color of the lockers and the walls?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: The lockers will =
follow
the flooring, so if you're in an area of blue flooring, you get a blue lock=
er.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Chipko: What do the locke=
rs
look like in the yellow area? The
reason I'm asking that is right down the hall here, we have the bumble bee =
city
where we have yellow floors, yellow walls, yellow lockers, and it hurts your
eyes just walking through. Th=
is
color yellow, right here.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: That is a bit muc=
h,
yea. As you can see along her=
e, I
filled it in, they're green lockers, we've got a green dot in that area so =
we
went with the green. There's =
only
two colors of lockers.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: Blue and green.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: So in here where =
you've
got the blue, and here we're just pulling it right up the wall with tack ba=
ord
directly above it so that the color just continues right up.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Chipko: I was more concer=
ned
with yellow, yellow, and more yellow.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 11
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: And in fact these
(inaudible) mimic the color of the brick.&=
nbsp;
That's a pretty good close for what the brick is and I've shown anot=
her
tone of it over here, it's actually camel colored where the base and everyt=
hing
matches throughout. And as yo=
u can
see you've got your green pallet, your blue pallet, and your camel sort of
pallet over here, and they all go together so that from the corridor into t=
he
classroom where we go to vinyl composition tile, there's no jar between the
two. I would encourage you to=
stay
with the rubber tile in the corridor, I think it's an excellent choice. If you'll notice I also have an
unidentified item over here which is called vinyl enhanced tile, it's somew=
here
in between the two in that it has a much greater percentage of vinyl in
it. It takes a lot less wax t=
han a
standard VCT. The surface of =
it is
much denser, it has a lot more bend to it.=
I've used it and you'll see over here, I've used it down in the cafe=
teria
to bring those colors in there but to have a higher quality product that's =
not
rubber there cause you don't want rubber necessarily near an area of grease
like in the survey over here so those same colors run through. The other option that is open to us=
is if
we get into any difficult on pricing, God forbid, the same exact pattern in
this stuff could be done in the VET, the vinyl enhanced tile as would the
rubber if we run into budgetary problems and we probably put that as, write
that right into the contract as something for them to price, so that we have
both prices in hand.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Chipko: What's the negati=
ve of
the VET versus . . . . .
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Wax as opposed to=
no
wax at all.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Chipko: How about durabil=
ity?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Durability, it sh=
ould
hold up quite nicely. You're
dealing with a product that is literally half the cost of the rubber. And then the VCT is half the cost
again. I would strongly recom=
mend
not going to the VCT. I think=
the
modern VCT's, you're putting 6 layers of wax on it, you're letting it dry 6
times, it's a lot of work. An=
d I'm
sure that Lou and the rest of your crew can tell you how much they apprecia=
te
the rubber tile being in the corridors, no wax, no slip, it's quieter on yo=
ur
foot, it's just a much higher quality product.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: I think the real t=
est is
going to be where we end up budget-wise, because again the focus has been on
durable materials, materials being easy to maintain, just bringing reality =
back
to when we go out to bid, we see a lot of schools with VCT, that's the stan=
dard
base material. Unfortunately =
over
time VCT, the product itself has just deteriorated, the types of glues and =
everything
else, and every little imperfection, every little dust particle that is left
underneath it when they're putting it down telescopes right through. You've seen new floors and they've =
got
these little pieces that are sticking up.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 12
&=
nbsp; VET
is sort of, has been our compromise when we can't afford the rubber or
carpeting or other things, ceramic tile, that's the next thing down, or up =
from
VCT, and the reality is if we still can't afford it, that's what we look fo=
r,
and that's really a decision that you'll make as a committee. We won't make that decision, you'l=
l make
that decision in terms of if we do have that issue which one, which directi=
on
do we go in? Do we go to floo=
ring
or some other material, where do we pick out items that need to bring us ba=
ck
to budget.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: How much of the s=
chool
is going to have the rubber right now?&nbs=
p;
Is any of it planned?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: All of the corrid=
ors
per the recommendation and request of the staff. All the areas that you see there, =
so
that exclusive stairways, ramps, where we would still go with pastille and =
the
rubber, we would need about (inaudible) square feet worth of product. See how nicely it (inaudible). You did that with a regular one it=
would
be pulled in two pieces right now.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Fusco: What do you put it=
down
with?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: The same wa=
y.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Fusco: The same type of g=
lue or
the same type of vinyl?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: It's the same pro=
cess
as putting down VCT. It's got=
about
20% more vinyl in it, that's really the key different, and if you were to t=
ouch
that and then touch albeit a good quality, feel the back and front of it,
you'll see that it's a much more porous material because it has more
(inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: So this will be i=
n the
corridors and you're talking about that for the classrooms?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: This material wil=
l be
in the corridors, that is your fall back material (inaudible) already on the
project, in the cafeteria.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: Is the green patt=
ern in
there now? That is an add alt=
ernate
or a delete alternate, and this is the third material? Is that how it's going to be done?=
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: I'm sorry. Let me=
make
that clear again. What I've s=
hown
is what you already have, and we'd still be using the pastilles, the ramps =
and
at the stairs.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: They're different
colors, right?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yes, in the 3 col=
ors
you saw on the board, the yellow, blue, and green. I only brought the one l=
arge
sample of the blue with me today.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 13
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: So on the regula=
r corridors
what you're indicating is that the smoother surface, rubber is what you're
proposing?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yes.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Lerz: So when you walk in=
to
Swift, what is going to be on the floor?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: That's my questio=
n.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Lerz: When you walk into =
Swift
right now, you'd see that?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Right.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Lerz: So what are you put=
ting
on there? That's what I'm con=
fused
about. Just do the lobby.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Just the lobby in=
this
front area right here, where you see the green walking right through the ar=
ea
where your public is coning into here and into this area, we're talking rub=
ber,
we're talking that blue, speckled blue right here, and we're talking that c=
olor
green forming the eagle and the background tone of that being the yellow of=
, if
you want to go even lighter, but water just cut as it would come in as a ma=
tte.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: So the foyer is =
going to
be that rubberized material right there?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yes.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: Now if the budget =
isn't
there, is this one of the reasons that will stay basted or will we change to
the V . . . .
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: I'd keep that
basted. I'd keep that area
(inaudible) cause you can change that right beyond because you've got the s=
tairs
on this side which are going to stay rubber, that could stay rubber, that c=
ould
stay rubber, and then from that point on it can shift.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: So what I think =
you're
saying is that this is a less expensive alternative than that rubberized
surface through the corridors?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yes.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: What's planned f=
or the
classrooms?
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 14
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Within the classr=
ooms
you've got standard VCT. And =
as you
can see you've got the green, blue, and yellow and you see within here that=
this
area is primarily blue, so the accent tone in that area is going to be blue,
that area is going to be access tone as a yellow and up in the new, excuse =
me
this area is the green, this area is the blue, so it goes from this area in
yellow, this area in predominantly in green, and this area and the new area
with the blue. So it's very c=
lear
what zone you've entered and the diagonal stripe sort of emphasizes that yo=
u're
going from one zone to the next zone.
Within the classrooms all of the vertical casework would be laminate=
in
that wood tone. All the count=
ertops
would be that stone sort of look.
All of the walls, with the variation of the color of the brick, all =
from
one bucket, don't worry. A ma=
tching
colored line at the window, the lighter green here that matches this one wo=
uld
be all of the door frames throughout the building. This color here that you see, agai=
n that
green coming in, that's the Swift green at all the window frames, all the
exterior window frames. And y=
ou see
this corianne piece here, the sill surfacing, all the sills.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: Disregarding the
colors, what's the cost differential between the circled material, the seco=
nd material,
and the vinyl enhanced tiles?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: The enamored
surface? It's virtually the s=
ame;
pennies.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: But you're saying
durability and being able to pick up stuff on the floor you won't see as mu=
ch
with the hammered surface versus the rubber?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: You won't see as =
much
with the speckled surface. You
would still do the same colors with the brown pastille (inaudible) at the
stairs and the ramps.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: But you're going =
to use
regular VCT tile in the classrooms versus the vinyl enhanced. Why wouldn't we put vinyl enhanced=
in
there? It will be less mainte=
nance,
less waxing.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: I'd love to.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: What's the cost
differential?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: You're at about $=
3.00
there, you're at $1.50 there installed.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: So it's about dou=
ble?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yes. I would love to do the whole thing=
that
way, that would be great.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: When it goes to b=
id, do
we have any alternates, say for the classroom floors, to make it VET (inaud=
ible)? Is it going to be done that way?
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 15
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: We can do that.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: That's at the disc=
retion
of the committee. If you'd li=
ke, we
can certainly do that.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: Cause I think that
would be the right way to do it.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: I couldn't agree w=
ith
you more.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: I'd love it.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: So at 100,000 sq=
uare
feet, it's a $50,000 upgrade, right?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: More than that,
$150,000.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: I was thinking y=
ou
take out the corridors and you take out the auditorium and then . . . . .
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: I see what you're
saying.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: Quick math.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: The reason I'm as=
king
you to do it that way is that we'll know up front what the costing would be,
but we aren't going to get taken to the cleaners by the contractor after the
fact.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman Precisely, and in =
each
case I've just got a different prefix but all of the yellows have a 3 after
them, all the blues have a 2 after them, in the finished schedule, and all =
of
these have a 1 after them, so making the shift, not a problem. You could just say all rubber floor=
ing as
opposed to rubber tile, but rubber flooring to be switched to VET, or all V=
CT
be changed to VET. It would be
simple to make those changes.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: So this product,=
it's
just washing?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: You wash it and i=
n terms
of waxing, you have to do half as much as you do with the VCT, so if you pu=
t 6
layers on the VCT now, that would take about 3. It will be more resistant to scrat=
ching
and you know once they took the asbestos out of it it doesn't have the stuf=
fing
to it. It's not quite the mat=
erial
that it used to be.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Lerz: Betsy, can I go bac=
k to
the logo? The logo on the flo=
or is
white.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: It's just shown w=
hite
there because that's the way the image came in.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 16
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Lerz: Well that is the co=
lor.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: You want it white=
in
the background?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Lerz: I think it would be
filthy. How do you maintain t=
hat?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: That's why I woul=
d go
to this yellow color as the background, so you get your
&= nbsp; Mr. Malik: So if the concern = is the white in the background is going to be difficult to clean, we can put anoth= er color that would be offsetting enough so that the eagle can be identified.<= o:p>
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Exactly. The only thing that we haven't tal=
ked
about that's on the floor here is these tiles. What this is is walk out carpet.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: The metal walk of=
f,
that's the grading is removable for cleaning?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yes, it comes in =
partials
that you can lift out and vacuum under.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 17
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: It is a little more
expensive in terms of material, but it works and there are other products t=
hat
are slightly cheaper, but we found that this works pretty well.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: And I would dissu=
ade
you from using vinyl link cause I’m really of the opinion that it doe=
sn't
work hardly at all. The more
aggressive you get and the more steps you can make people take on it before
they get off of it, the cleaner their feet are going to be by the time they
land on our carpeting.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Vicenzi: Will this be sli=
ppery?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: No, not at all, a=
nd
it's close enough together so that it shouldn't catch heels.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Fusco: You said that's al=
uminum?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman: Yea. And then the only other thing I've=
got
sitting on the floor is this porcelain tile for all the bathrooms and the
women's rooms, that would be the yellow version that you see there, I broug=
ht a
bunch of them so you can see how it varies and it looks more like an actual
wall on the floor. This sligh=
tly
bigger tile looks a little longer, it's easier to clean, there's less joint=
s,
and the joints are really the part that gets dirty. And then pull basically that same =
color
up the wall.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: How high up the w=
all?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Berman Right now in the g=
ang
bathrooms the finished schedule, I'm showing it going all the way up on the=
walls,
the full wall. In the small
bathroom where a single occupant and typically a handicapped or faculty is
using, I've got paint on the walls and just face on the floor and on the ti=
le,
so I've already (inaudible) at that level.=
If you would like me to bring the tile down, or just provide base, t=
his
is a good opportunity to talk about that.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: I would think the=
walls
should be tiled. It's less
maintenance. In the faculty o=
r the
handicapped I think it ought to come up partway on the walls too, not just =
the
base.
Mr. Malik: And that's what we would prefer to do. Again it's an economics i= ssue as to how much we can afford. In the existing spaces, cause there are rooms that are existing toilet rooms t= hat we're taking out the old tile, I don't think we have much of a choice becau= se of the condition that's going to be left when you take that old tile out, you're probably best to just tile up against it and finish it all the way u= p to the ceiling, but in the newer spaces purely from an economics perspective, that's why we've gone to the base and the floor versus taking it up to a wainscot.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 18
Mr. Porter: The wall is a sheet rock wall?
Mr. Malik: No the walls are block walls, so y= ou can put an epoxy paint on them.
Ms. Berman: Well actually instead of epoxy pai= nt which has quite a sheen on it, cause it's going to show all the imperfectio= ns on the wall, what I've got in there right now is a performance enhanced pai= nt made by Scrub Tough and it has the scrub ability of an epoxy paint but with= an eggshell finish, so aesthetically it's going to look better, whereas epoxy = is . . . . .
Mr. Porter: There's no matte finishes in epoxy= ?
Ms. Berman: They don't do it, they just do sem= i-gloss and it always makes the block look terrible. That's why we've gone to this and = the difference is really quite amazing. Whereas you might be repainting if we w= ere using just a regular paint in there, you can scrub this on the old (inaudib= le) scrub the tile.
Mr. Malik: Is there a cost differential betwe= en the (inaudible)?
Ms. Berman: Yes, when you're looking at regular paint, you're looking at maybe $.50 a square foot, the epoxy paint is about $.95, this is about $1.25. because it has . . . . . .
Mr. Porter: Performance enhanced paint.
Ms. Berman: Yes.
Mr. Porter: And tile?
Ms. Berman: Tile, you're looking at about $3.0= 0 for material and then another $5.00 or $6.00 for installation. And as opposed to just a painted g= lossy (inaudible) floor tile, this is actually through chip, it's a porcelain til= e, it's much denser, much richer in terms of colors out there, and it's going = to hold up forever. It's much st= ronger. I could use that outside if you wa= nted to, it's rated for that.
Mr. LoFrese: Other than that curvy ceiling in t= he library, are there any other architectural details in the building similar = to that that may require maintenance staff to be up on ladders, etc., because = in one place I think the staff can handle it, but if we start looking in diffe= rent areas and we had this throughout . . . . .
Ms. Berman: Absolutely not. The only other thing is the resin,= and you have to clean that just as if it were glass.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 19
Mr. Malik: We were contemplating doing someth= ing in the cafeteria for instance. H= aven't really come up with a solution. I'm more concerned with the cafeteria because the media center is a fairly controlled environment, but in the cafeteria things are going to get tossed= up there, so whereas we'd like to do something there, we are . . . . .
Mr. LoFrese: Plain Jane.
Ms. Berman: Not exactly plain Jane.
Mr. Malik: Something of interest there, but I= think we haven't really come up with any final conclusion. If it something that's unusual, we= 'll bring it before the committee.
Ms. Berman: And we need, those same blues and = greens will work their way into the cafeteria as well and the servery. In fact on the servery wall I'm ta= king that same sign curve that we've got in the media center and repeating it in= the rubber pulled up from the floor, excuse me in the VET pulled up from the fl= oor and sign wave on the base of that so the kids are going to be facing someth= ing that they can kick and not do anything bad to as their coming up towards getting their food.
Mr. Porter: Are there any areas except for the= gym where you've got exposed structure? Where there's no ceiling?
Ms. Berman: You've got no ceiling in the area = right, you can sort of see here and identify that that would be a very clean area = of exposed structure painted in that tone. (Tape #1, Side B ended - may have missed some.)
Mr. Malik: What are you identifying? That's the deal that you come in (= inaudible)?
Ms. Berman: Right, all the way up.
Mr. Malik: So you're seeing the metal deck up there?
Ms. Berman: We can throw a ceiling in there if= that's more appropriate for your use.
Mr. Porter: After (inaudible) it's going to lo= ok dirty. It's a maintenance item. It just never gets done= . How about the cafeteria?
Mr. Malik: In the cafeteria we're looking at = the various ceilings we've got right now, sort of a stepped up condition. We had discussions about whether, = again there's two things that come into play there, acoustics, it's a large volume space and we had reduced at one point, the building was 2 foot higher in te= rms of, we were trying to get 2 feet additional in the floor to floor in the cafeteria because of the ductwork and everything else that was happening up there, and from an economy perspective we had to bring it down to 16 feet n= ow floor to floor from the 18 feet floor to floor.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 20
What
we're evaluating is the clear space underneath in terms of as it's proporti=
oned
to the volume of the square footage of that space. We're trying to get the ceiling up=
as
high as we can. One of the th=
ings
that we're in the process of looking at, it doesn't make any sense to expose
the structure in there, and essentially paint it black and just leave it
there. That's an option. No decision on it. It really hasn't been finalized in=
terms
of what we want to do, so we want to keep it simple, yet there's a couple of
things we are trying to do in here which are sort of juxtaposed against each
other in a fashion; we don't have an answer that everybody is happy with.
Mr. Porter: I just don't want to see any open structures.
Ms. Berman: That's very clear, thank you. It's good to have good direction o= n that. In fact we were looking at precise= ly that sort of curve, going over the servery service area and we were looking= at repeating that curve out here and it sounds like this area in through here = just wants a dropped ceiling as well and we'll try to get that as high as possib= le.
Mr. Malik: The main reason in a lot of ways of doing the exposed ceiling is when you get into really tight spaces then you= try putting your ceiling in and all of a sudden you have this large volume and = you have the ceiling 8 or 9 feet up there.&nbs= p; Proportionately when you're in that space you don’t feel right about it, and that's when we really look at ways of lifting the ceiling up. I'm not sure we're going = to have that issue here, but we haven't fully resolved it, so that's why I'm n= ot really giving you a real clear answer, but I don't think we want to expose = the ceiling in there. I think the distanc= e we have will probably work, it's just it will be a little more coordination wi= th the mechanical, making sure that the overlapping ductwork doesn't lower the ceiling down too much.
Mr. LoFrese: For maintenance staff, and invariab= ly there's going to be a phone somewhere where someone wants the phone jack put somewhere else, and to have the dropped ceiling and to be able to have acce= ss to that, to be able to run that type of wires and those afterthoughts is something that helps us out tremendously.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 21
Mr. Porter: When are you looking for some kind= of an approval to proceed?
Mr. Malik: Well in general we're looking for t= his is the concept here. In terms of= the materials I think we've pretty much gone through the materials. If you have objections to the type= s of materials, I like the discussion when we said let's look at alternates, cause to me th= at gives us 2 options in terms of the most costly material and the less costly material in terms of dollars and cents, that's one thing so we want to be c= lear about that. In terms of the c= olor scheme, the package, it really is a representation as a whole. You can't take bits and pieces out= and say I want to do this different.
Mr. Porter: Color scheme is out of our purview, that's Marylu and her staff. = That's really not what we're concerned with .&nbs= p; It looks fine, but . . . . .
Ms. Lerz: That was one of my concerns, is th= is it? Are these approved? Are these the colors? I have some reservations about som= e of them.
Ms. Berman: Can you voice what?
Ms. Lerz: The green worries me in front of t= he lobby, like I like the yellow and stuff but I'm just a little, you know I’m not an expert on color, and I would not want to be the one to just say go with this or not. I'm a little concerned about the chairs, just the colors a little bit, but I like= the design, and I like the softness. Worrying about the yellow being a very bright and stuff, so there ar= e, I worry about the lockers too. = Even that mustardy . . . . .
Ms. Berman: There is no mustard locker. Only blue and green.
Mr. Chipko: Betsy, before you leave, if you he= ad down this hallway here, I think it's down to the left, take a look at that hall, that's what we don't want. There's been more comments from the public . . . .
Mr. Porter: Some of the colors used in this sc= hool, I'm surprised the kids aren't off the wall.
Ms. Lerz: I'm worried about the green and I'm
worried about the blue, like I’m worried about the green, the blue, a=
nd
that. I don't know. Can it be seen on the computer?
Mr. Malik: You mean as in 3 dimensional image= s or importing the floor images?
Ms. Lerz: Both. I don't know if you do that.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 22
Mr. Malik: We can scan in the materials into = the computer to see pretty much like for instance the floor plan, but we wouldn= 't create a 3 dimensional image of the interior of the building.
Ms. Lerz: I just worry about what some of the colors will look like. I woul= dn't want to be the only one.
Mr. Porter: Are you going to meet again with t= he staff? Let me rephrase that.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Can you meet again with the staff = as far as some of the colors?
Mr. Malik: What we need here is direction bec= ause quite frankly trying to make decisions by committee is not the way you want= to go on something like this, because we've had some districts that have done = that and you just couldn't come to any resolution, so you have to have somebody = create a committee of a few people and work with them and look at some options.
Ms. Berman: And quite frankly the patterning f= or the building, I didn’t hear you say anything, so I'm assuming the pattern= is okay.
Ms. Lerz: Yes.
Ms. Berman: Because as you can see here we've = even repeated it on the outside of the building, this is an area of paving right outside of the media center so the kids can go out there and sit (inaudible= ).
Mr. LoFrese: I imagine there's a color chart fo= r this material, maybe you could sit down with Marylu to see some other options.
Ms. Lerz: I think I would prefer that before= I just said oh sure, go with those colors. Just like with John Trumbull, when= we went through that, and there was a committee, but then somewhere along the = way it got lost and who ended up being the final say, and then you have that ye= llow that is . . . . . .
Mr. Malik: Everybody has a different philosophy about the color selection process. I've been to one district where the Supe= rintendent says I make all the calls on colors, so you work with that. And as long as it's a clear defini= tion of who we're working with that's fine, and we always have to have a given t= imeline to do it.
Mr. Porter: When do you need these?
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 23
Mr. Malik: Well we want to have these materia= ls in the package put together because sometimes if you start changing colors, it= may not come in the material that we're looking for the color that everybody wa= nts so then you've got to start changing the specifications. Right now we're looking in the next month or so we're out to bid, so we need like at the most a 2 week window in which we've got to put the whole thing to bed, so that's what I would say i= s, as long as everybody can work towards that timeline.
Mr. Porter: As far as coloring, that will be u= p to the school staff. As far as t= he materials and what we want as add alternates, (inaudible) decision.
Mr. Malik: And we've tried to work with what = you wanted and what Todd wanted in terms of the ability of the materials so tha= t's a relatively simple part of it, the color could (inaudible).
Mr. Porter: I was kind of hoping Charlie would= be here tonight too to see some of this.
Mr. Malik: I think when we're done we want to= leave that as a display so everyone can see it.
Mr. LoFrese: He's sick.
Mr. Porter: I didn't mean it . . . I would have preferred he be here.=
Ms. Berman: I was going directly because of the (inaudible) you wanted the blue, you wanted the green, I think that we're in agreement this is the exact color that (inaudible) office.
Ms. Lerz: Correct.
Ms. Berman: And this is the exact same color o= f that pretty much, as close as you're going to get and keep it nice and lively wi= th the windows and I think we're good to go on that. I'm trying to identify things that= we're not going to look at changing.
Ms. Lerz: Right.
Mr. Porter: When this goes to bid and the mate= rials are chosen, is there anything in the bid documents that says there will be = a 5% add stock?
Ms. Berman: Absolutely. It depends on . . . .
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 24
Mr. Khericha: We can increase it to 10% too.
Mr. Porter: No, I just wondered if that was go= ing to be part of the package.
Mr. Khericha: It's a requirement for every finis= h, floor, ceiling, paint.
Ms. Berman: Unopened boxes.
Mr. Malik: Especially on the floor tiles, etc. because you never get the same dye lot.
Mr. Porter: Does the rest of the committee hav= e any questions? I don’t want= to be the only one talking here.
Mr. Fusco: That green tile you're talking abo= ut, how is that put down? With so= me kind of a thinset, and what kind of a grout line do you have in that, or is it up close to one another?
Ms. Berman: It's what's called a rectifying tile. If you looked at the ac= tual tiles, you'd see that they're chamfered very carefully on the edge and it's= a perfect edge and you can get a grout line like about that.
Mr. Fusco: And the grout color? Same color?
Ms. Berman: Same, yea, I'd go with the deep green. Whatever it is it's go= ing to gray out a little over time anyway.
Mr. Malik: Dark color. We had a design that specified a l= ight color and it got by us and we didn't hear the end of it.
Ms. Berman: And I did bring the only other gre= en that they had in this pallet with me just so you could see the differentiat= ion. This is the one that's on the floor right now. Because they sent = me one wrong color, they came in yesterday morning, so I just wanted to make sure = this is what's there and this is pretty complementary to that. Is it the appleness of the green t= hat is shifting you a little?
Ms. Lerz: I don't see it blending with the c= olor of the logo, I don't know, I'm just, I don't need a long time, so I don't t= hink it's something that will hold this up.&nbs= p; I think it's pretty close, but there's a few things that I'm concern= ed about, one being the fabric in the auditorium which I'm not quite sure abou= t.
Ms. Berman: The upholstery fabric?
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 25
Ms. Lerz: Correct, blending with the floor.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> I don't know. I'd just like to spend a little mo= re time with that, but not a lot of time to hold this up. If you had a similar blue and a si= milar green that you could bring to show that would be terrific. I'm not quite sure about that glass either. See I like things lik= e that more, the glass block. To me = it's a little more (inaudible).
Mr. Malik: This is more to replace glass as i= n it would be in a window, but to create some interesting differing color in there. It's really at the low= er level so that when you put a computer table in front of it you don't see the wires. You can also get it pl= ain.
Ms. Berman: Those same colors coming back in, = as you can see, you can't see too much through this, you can see movement, but you really can't see details.
Mr. Porter: What the material on the cafeteria floor?
Ms. Berman: VET.
Mr. Porter: And the finishes you're using ther= e, the materials, it's all standard material?&nbs= p; There's nothing experimental?
Ms. Berman: Absolutely nothing.
Mr. Porter: Well, we've been there.
Ms. Berman: I know I can see that.
Mr. Porter: Replacement, we're not looking for something . . . . cutting edge . . . .
Mr. Khericha: (Inaudible) percentage of material= , so 5% if you want to give everyone 7% (inaudible).
Ms. Berman: Just make sure you don't replace storage.
Mr. Porter: That's a problem.
Ms. Berman: Because it's a very controlled pallet. There's really only 3 colors here and we want to make sure that everything stays in good shape as= you walk in the building.
Mr. Malik: Materials like the VET, these thin= gs have been around, we've seen the difference and the reality is in a lot of = cases we end up with VCT because it's a matter of cost. I think we need to start at the be= tter product level, more durable, cause in the long run that's where you'll see the savi= ngs, and unfortunately the way this budgeting system is set up for projects, it's tough to have those types of (inaudible).
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 26
Mr. Porter: How difficult is it to specify the circled material in all the hallways, show a delete to go to the second material?
Mr. Malik: Not difficult. That's an alternate that will be in= the bid form, so we'll have a spec item for the alternate material and for inst= ance we already have the VCT speced as part of the general package, so we'll hav= e a VET spec and then we'll have a rubber spec, so we'll just have the 3 specs = and so you'll say in lieu of the rubber, use the VET in all hallways, and add or deduct cost, then leave a blank, and then the same thing with the VCT.
Mr. Khericha: And the good thing is only one (in= audible).
Ms. Berman: It's resilient, resilient, resilie= nt, it's all part of one spec so.
Mr. Porter: The only place we're using carpeti= ng is in the auditorium?
Ms. Berman: In the auditorium, the media cente= r, and in the offices. In fact, I br= ought a softer green for the front offices cause I know you like (inaudible).
Mr. Malik: That's not the color. That's the color for which areas?<= /p>
Ms. Berman: There's two colors specifically, t= his one and this one. This one is= the areas where it's just by the blond brick in that smaller vestibule area, and this one is the front vestibule and the two main vestibules areas where the= green is absolutely right on the money.
Mr. Porter: How big of an area are we talking = about for carpeting in the offices?
Ms. Berman: Your front office staff actually a= sked for brown surface flooring in their front office area. I'm assuming that back in this zone where your conference room and yours and Jane's offices are, that that shou= ld be carpet, and that the zone right over here where the guidance and the psy= che offices are, mental health area, that should be carpeted. And the only other thing I have ca= rpeted is the two computer labs. It = makes the kids act better. It does.= They walk in, it's a different environment.
Ms. Lerz: Is it more money?
Ms. Berman: The same cost, it's just two diffe= rent color ways of the same product, and that's in fact exactly the product that Phil was talking about.
Mr. Porter: If we put VCT or VET in those offi= ces in those area, what kind of savings will there be, approximately?
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 27
Ms. Berman: Not huge. When you convert the cost of carpet= to per square foot, as opposed to per yard, it's about 3, so it's about the sa= me as the VET.
Mr. Malik: The VCT there's a (inaudible) but = if I look at the offices you've got about 6 to 8 offices.
Ms. Berman: Yea, it's not a big number and qui= te frankly . . . .
Mr. Porter: About 500 square feet?
Mr. Malik: No, I would think more like 1,000 = plus.
Ms. Berman: Plus it promotes a more profession= al atmosphere. Your expectation = is that there would be carpet there as opposed to VCT, I would think.
Mr. LoFrese: One of our concerns was the dye me= thod and you commented earlier about the difference between 100% solution dyed a= nd what this product is.
Ms. Berman: Yes, and you could still throw str= aight bleach on this and it would be just fine.&= nbsp; You could do hot water extraction on it.
Mr. LoFrese: I like the closed backing because = it didn't stain (inaudible), they're not going to run, and any moisture that g= ets into it is just sitting on the surface, not soaking into the weave.
Ms. Berman: Precisely. There's really nothing for it to s= it in or on. And they have a very g= ood recycling program as well so that any old carpets that you have, the idea n= ow is to start recycling those as opposed to putting them in landfills. You might want to talk about recyc= ling that in the auditorium as well, cause all of that (inaudible). That pretty = much matches your (inaudible). I j= ust brought that along as a color sample.
Ms. Lerz: Thursday or the following Monday or Tuesday would be best.
Ms. Berman: If you would call me tomorrow we c= an schedule something. I'll bring all of = this.
Ms. Lerz: If you have any samples that are a little deeper too.
Ms. Berman: We have in our sample room downsta= irs, we have the staff lighting that we speced in the classrooms so that when you look at these you look at them under the right lighting conditions. I picked this out simply because i= t has that waved formation in there.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 28
Ms. Lerz: See I'm more of a deeper toned, I = don't like that carpet down but I like the square up there. I don't know, but I like more of a deeper, I think it's richer, it doesn’t show the dirt as much, I'm ve= ry concerned about the dirt and . . . .
Ms. Berman: (Inaudible).
Ms. Lerz: That I don't mind. The chairs blow me away.
Mr. LoFrese: I like it, that way when they get stained you can't tell.
Ms. Lerz: I understand that but as long as t= he colors are the right colors. A patte= rn is a pattern. Do you see that co= lor blending? I don't know.
Ms. Berman: (Inaudible). It's when you see it as a whole ca= use you're going to see so little of that carpet in that room, what you're going to se= e is the wall.
Mr. Porter: How about if we get back within 2 = weeks, Todd?
Ms. Lerz: I'll do that before that, thatR= 17;s fine.
Mr. Porter: And then we've got our prior conce= rns in writing too.
Mr. LoFrese: That's all I have.
Mr. Porter: Okay, thank you very much. And you're going to leave samples = where?
Ms. Lerz: At Swift would be great. I could keep them a few days and t= hen send them to you if you want.
Mr. Porter: I think we have in our mind what we want, so we don't necessarily need to see the samples, but I'm thinking probably Swift will be . . . .
Mr. Malik: Well once the final decision has b= een made, I like to have a sound board at the school and we have a duplicate bo= ard in our office so that when submittals are made, that's what we compare it t= o, and then you want one.
Mr. Porter: Exterior finishes, maybe this isn'= t the time to talk about it, the brick work, any problem matching?
Mr. Malik: No. We're going to have multiple vendors come and look at that. Each one is going to give us their= best match. The reason we want to = do it that way is you don't want to pick a single source, cause then you'll get gouged in the pricing, so as long as they know there's competition there, w like to see panels put up before the final decision is made. So far we've got some pretty decent matches on the masonry.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 29
Mr. Porter: We had a problem with the brick he= re, in supplying it.
Mr. Malik: Well really that's going to come b= ack to the contractor, and that's one of the things that is usually checked at the time of the final decision on the brick, is what's the availability and delivery times, cause that sometimes will come into play. Some guys will make promises, and = you can never control it completely cause they’ll say they'll deliver it = and then they don't.
Mr. Porter: I don’t remember the exact i= ssue here.
Mr. Chipko: I think it was because of the odd = shaped pieces, the large jumbo bricks, and the size of the project as well.
Mr. Malik: Usually the problems we have, I me= an the further away (Tape #2, Side A ended - may have missed some). I wouldn't, I mean I've had proble= ms with deliveries on things like glazed tiles and things like that. Bricks in general, part of the row= here is to make sure we get the samples in and the submittals in early enough and not let them drag it out so that you're then fighting the timeframe or you'= re just not going to get proper delivery and then hammer the individuals, the contr= actor to make sure that they get their submittals in. That's really the key to it all.
Mr. Porter: We'll ask questions about the type= of curbing, when is that determined?
Mr. Malik: We have both bituminous and concre=
te
curbs and walks and the preferred, and I think Zoning has asked for precast
concrete. The problem is that=
again
it's surely a better product, but it's more expensive, but we are going to =
ask
the landscape architects to take a look at some of the areas that have been
modified in the sense that, for instance, that temporary parking, overflow
parking, I never envisioned it as anything more than a grass area that you =
go
and park on. There are plans =
that
say okay, we put down Grass Crete, well that's a very specific product, tha=
t's
not an inexpensive product that you're going to put over the entire area.
Mr. LoFrese: I would echo, that grassy area, wh= ether it's grassy area or some kind of gravel area isn't going to accommodate the cars that are coming for this special event regardless.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 30
Mr. Porter: What's the timeframe for this, whe= n you say this is going to be going out to bid pretty quick, these items have to = be determined also, don't they?
Mr. Malik: Yea, and we went to P & Z last= week and all these issues were brought up. Actually I brought up the grass issue after the meeting, I didn't br= ing it up at the P & Z meeting, but we have had some discussions both with = Mary and Chuck on this particular issue. So far I think one response was they didn't think there would be a p= roblem out, we're going to bring it back up at the meeting with P & Z. I know that finances and funding a= re not necessarily a concern, although most commissions will take that into consid= eration.
Mr. Chipko: Not the whole ball of curbing, is i= t?
Mr. Malik: I would have to talk to Whitney ab= out it but I think it was, the thought was as much as they could get, and the same thing with concrete walks. Ar= e they better? Yes. Can we afford them? Well we want to limit it to the ar= eas that are going to get the highest use, where the busses are coming in, where we've got an integrated walk and a curb with the concrete, and then go to bituminous in the outer areas, cause we do have a lot of walks on the proje= ct, much more so now than before.
Mr. LoFrese: Going back to the matching of the bricks, and I'm not sure where the correspondence came from, but I was talk= ing with someone from Kaestle Boos about having the bricks cleaned and whether = that was something that the Board of Ed was going to take on. It's my impression that that's goi= ng to be done through the building project. I don’t know how the Building= Committee feels about that, but I just can't imagine that our guys, our maintenance s= taff is going to get out there and clean the brick to the level it needs to be t= o be sufficiently matched.
Mr. Malik: Typically we don't, unless specifi= cally required to we don't do the cleaning on the entire building. Certain things, these are prevaili= ng wage rate projects because of the size of the project so the cost to do something like that is a lot higher if you do it through the project.
Mr. LoFrese: I just know from the Board of Ed's perspective, I mean I look at getting a lift, the appropriate type of press= ure water equipment, I'm going to have obviously our staff versus a professional power washing company coming out and doing it.&n= bsp; If it's our staff it's going to take them weeks, and then I'm not co= nfident that the end result is going to be what we're looking for.
Mr. Porter: Do we need to clean the brick?
Mr. Khericha: You can get a (inaudible).
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 31
Mr. Malik: Yea, sometimes you don't because y= ou just take, because over time it gets grayed out at the end. If you are going to clean the bric= k then you have to make sure that that's done first, all before you even match your brick, cause then you'll have all these matches that are against the existi= ng brick. Right now we haven't gone in and c= leaned the brick, and then come back in, and then especially if you're had additio= ns, those differences begin to really (inaudible). We can look at a way of getting a = price for it, in terms of what it would cost to do that, and have it as an option= .
Mr. LoFrese: We were talking about the bricks a= nd that came to mind.
Mr. Porter: Are you saying the Board is leaning towards cleaning the bricks before we put the addition on? Is that what they want to do?
Mr. LoFrese: It was brought to my attention tha= t we needed to clean the brick by Kaestle Boos, so I had never crossed my mind u= ntil about a week go, that that would be part of this.
Mr. Malik: We don't have to, but it's always = a good idea.
Mr. LoFrese: No, I understand the rationale, we= 're going to have a new building and we want it to look nice all around, not ju= st the new sections.
Mr. Malik: I will say, just an update on the meeting that Whitney and the Civil Engineers had with D.E.P. to go over the whole issue of the culvert and the flood, they may, at least from the discu= ssion, agreed that there is a low point further down the road so that the water wo= uld literally flow into the school first, it would probably flow down, it actua= lly will pond on the other side of the road first and then flow down to the low= point of the road and then cross over, and that point where it crosses over is cl= ose to the other side of the brook itself, so when I hear that, I say well then naturally the water was not going to come back up against the building, so they're doing a new model based on that agreement with DE.P. and hopefully = it will help if anything lessens the flood wall because again those are expens= es that when we started the project we did not anticipate so I'm looking for some r= elief there, I'm hoping, keeping my fingers crossed that that's what the model wi= ll . . . .
Mr. Porter: When will that information come ba= ck?
Mr. Malik: They were supposed to complete the modeling today but I didn't hear any update on it this afternoon.
Mr. Porter: Do you know if P & Z is going = to Close this Hearing out on the 6th?
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 32
Mr. Malik: There's 3 items that they're askin= g the Board for, and those 3 have to do with a flood evacuation plan, a parking p= lan, and snow removal. So maybe the flood evacuation plan will get simplified based on what we find out, but you still have to do an event parking plan and a snow removal plan, so those ar= e 3 items we have to give them better information and that's what this meeting = was about today, on the flood situation, and also on the Police Commission's re= port on what's going to happen with the traffic. That meeting is scheduled for the = 29th I think, so we'll have that answer, and based on their recommendation, it wil= l go to the State Traffic Commission for a determination. The engineers think that the deter= mination is that we don't need to file the full application with the State Traffic Consideration which is that's what they still feel would be the case, but y= ou never can tell. We need some = of those pieces in place in order to get approval from the State, but those are also requirements of P & Z.
Beyond that there were some comments and questions that were raised. At the last meeting I think the da= y of the meeting we got a list of questions they wanted us to respond to. We responded to most of them and I= think I managed to talk to Mary and I was at the meeting, I didn't see anything t= hat could be a problem. The neigh= bors did express some concern about not being included in the process and regard= less I was able to talk to them afterwards and to get from them their main conce= rns, it came down to lighting and traffic flow.= So however we extended to them the thought that if they wanted, beca= use they expressed that some of the neighbors couldn't come out to these meetin= gs, they were not able to cause they're elderly and so on, so I offered to at l= east give them an informal presentation if they met at one of the neighbor's hom= es and give them an update on what's going on. I think part of it comes from the = fact that people don't know what to expect, and so if we can at least let them k= now and give them an explanation. They asked why we needed this light, and I said well by code you're required to = have it by fire code, you need emergency lighting, up to 20 foot candles 25 feet away from the building. We wo= n't get a building permit if we don't do that.= When they hear the explanations then they back up and they understand what the requirements are, so they suggested the 31st, and I knew we had something else that night, so I will tell them to meet at 6:00, that will g= ive us 45 minutes to make them feel more informed and if they have any issues, they've identified lighting and traffic flow so we'll certainly respond to those.
Mr. Porter: Thank you very much.
Mr. Vicenzi: I'll Adjourn my meeting.
JOINT MEETING
MARCH 22, 2005
PAGE 33
4. =
Discussion
and Vote on Code Compliance Proposals
&= nbsp; Mr. Porter: We have Pierz Associates, the code review proposal. We don't have a quorum tonight so I'd like to get the consensus of t= he Committee to forward this to the Building Inspector and the Fire Marshall to get their approval for the firm and then at our next meeting vote on this, = but tentative between their approval accepting Pierz's proposal to us in the am= ount of $19,500. This is the peer = review that is required. There was o= ne other estimate for $24,500. They've= done quite a bit, they've worked with Kaestle Boos in the past. (Inaudible.)
5. =
Adjournment
Mr. Porter Adjourned the Joint Meeting= at 9:05 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Robert Porter, Chairman
Watertown Public Buildings Committ= ee
Approved: _______________________________
Lynn M. LaForme, Clerk