MINUTES<=
/span>
&nb=
sp;
WATERTOWN PUB=
LIC
BUILDINGS COMMITTEE
SPECIAL MEETING<=
/b>
&nb=
sp;
TOWN HALL
ANNEX
CONFEREN=
CE
ROOM
&nb=
sp;
WEDNESDA=
Y, JUNE
22, 2005, 5:30 P.M.
PRESENT: =
&nb=
sp; Remo
Ceniccola, Vice Chairman
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; John
Chipko
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Peter
Dzioba
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Anthony
Fusco
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Karl
Kuegler, Secretary
John
Orsini
Robert
Porter, Chairman
ABSENT: &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; None
OTHERS PRESENT: Fred
Khericha, Kaestle Boos Associates (arrived at 5:32 p.m.)
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Todd
LoFrese, Director of Operations, Board of Education
Rusty
Malik, Kaestle Boos Associates (arrived at 5:32 p.m.)
&=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; &=
nbsp; &nbs=
p; Lorel
Purcell, O & G Industries
1.&nb=
sp; Convene
Special Meeting - 5:30 P.M.
&n=
bsp;
Mr.
Porter, Chairman, Called the Meeting to Order at 5:30 p.m.
2.&nb=
sp; Roll
Call
Mr.
Porter, Chairman, executed the Roll Call.
3. =
Discussion
and Vote on Recommendation to Award Bid on Asbestos Abatement for the Swift Middle
School Project
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Porter: I handed out information from O &a=
mp; G
as well as (inaudible). And y=
ou
have a letter from O & G to the Town.&=
nbsp;
The bid numbers, these were sent to you right after the bid, this is
just confirmation on (inaudible) bidders (inaudible).
=
WATERTOWN PUBLIC BUILDINGS COMMITTEE
SPECIAL MEETING
JUNE 22, 2005
PAGE 2
&nbs=
p; Ms.
Purcell: Yes, in your package after the bid
tabulation is a letter explaining from Incor, who is the apparent low bidde=
r,
that they made a mistake when they transferred the bid number from his esti=
mate
sheet onto his formal proposal. The
very last page just has his numbers of how he was doing his take off and he
indicated the most serious item of work that he left off was the floor
sealer. There's like a $96,000
number there. He explained to=
me on
the telephone when he transcribed the number, it should have been, you see =
that
$448,310 was kind of his target number.&nb=
sp;
He was going to put $446,300 and instead he put on $346,300. So he has acknowledged that he mad=
e a
mistake when he transposed his numbers and he was not willing to do the pro=
ject
for the bid amount.
&=
nbsp; The
next bidder, the second bidder was a difference of $16,700 who is SMAC. I met with him, along with Mark
Granville of Brooks Laboratories on Monday. We did a thorough scope review. I have the meeting minutes. We also negotiated a couple of unit
prices that were in his proposal.
He had a misunderstanding of some of the unit prices so we were able=
to
get a couple of those numbers down.
We've done our scope review and we feel comfortable with the second
bidder, SMAC.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Chipko: Did you ever work=
with
them before?
&nbs=
p; Ms.
Purcell: Yes, we did, at Ridgebury recently,
within the last couple of years, O & G has, and Mark Granville has work=
ed
with him as well.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: Rusty and Fred, w=
e just
handed out the bid results and recommendation. Lorel, can you please reiterate.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: SMAC, they were =
the
second bidder. The low bidder
withdrew his bid, he said he made a mistake when he transposed his number o=
nto
the formal proposal. Mark Gra=
nville
and myself met with them on Monday, we did a thorough scope review, and I
indicated we had negotiated a couple of the unit prices down, and we feel
comfortable that they're fully capable, they're gearing, they've done their
State notification already and they plan on starting July 5th, which is
actually ahead of our schedule. They
want to get in there right away which is critical also, to get that meeting
done, give the principal a heads up on where we're going to be so everybody=
can
react to that. So it's O &=
; G 's
recommendation to go ahead and go into a contract with SMAC.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Porter: And earlier you said you had done =
work
with them in the past.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: Yes, we worked w=
ith
them recently, within the last couple of years at Ridgebury.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Khericha: What does Mark feel?
=
WATERTOWN PUBLIC BUILDINGS COMMITTEE
SPECIAL MEETING
JUNE 22, 2005
PAGE 3
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: Mark has done wo=
rk
with them as well, he's comfortable with them, yes.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Malik: I was feeling good about Incor, es=
pecially
since they're out of West Haven, rather than a New Jersey firm, because New
Jersey seems to have all the abatement firms, they all come out of New Jers=
ey. The last few times I had New Jerse=
y firms
on the job, I mean a lot of them didn't speak any English, even the Foreman=
was
kind of, whatever the latest immigrant group is that's coming in, they were
kind of . . . . . .
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Chipko: Who is going to be
overseeing the operation from O & G?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: Right now I am.<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> I'm waiting to hear from my office=
as to
who the field person will be assigned to it, but right now it's me until we
hear otherwise.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Khericha: (Inaudible) anyway so it will be
granted.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: Yea, it's just a=
matter
of overseeing changes and what not.
Somebody is going to have to tell them, Brooks Labs, that they're go=
ing
to be overseeing the work. I =
don't
know if you already have that in place, that contract, that they'll monitor=
ing
that on a daily basis.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Porter: We have a couple of Brooks contrac=
ts in
place but I'm not sure . . . . .
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Khericha: If I'm not mist=
aken,
he has a lump sum price to do the monitoring.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Malik: Not a unit price?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Khericha: No, I think he =
had a
lump sum.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: So he's the one =
that
would really be overseeing the work, and we just need oversight right now.<=
o:p>
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Khericha: Nobody else can get there anyway s=
o (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: Right.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
LoFrese: We did a smaller asbestos abatement
project last year at the High School, and we had a designated person on eve=
ry day,
and Mark Granville filled that role.
Is that what you're referring to?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: Yes. O & G's standpoint right now w=
ould
just be oversight of the process, making sure that they're doing areas that
they're supposed to be doing, when they're doing it.
=
WATERTOWN PUBLIC BUILDINGS COMMITTEE
SPECIAL MEETING
JUNE 22, 2005
PAGE 4
&nbs=
p; Mr.
LoFrese: Correct. Having a designated asbestos perso=
n on
site every day. I'll check wi=
th the
contract to make sure that . . . . .
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: That would be Br=
ooks.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
LoFrese: It definitely would be Brooks, I'm=
just
not sure if our contract has that.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Khericha: He has, that's =
why I
said I think, when I was talking with him, he indicated he had a lump sum p=
rice
for monitoring for the whole project.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: He's going to ne=
ed to
start background samples as well, setting up backgrounds.=
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Malik: Did Incor indicate what number they
transposed?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: He indicated on =
the
very last page, what he left off of his price in essence is the floor
sealer. He has that $448,310 =
number
circled, he told me he intended on putting on the formal proposal $446,310,=
and
what ended up gong on the formal proposal was $346,310, so he is saying he =
just
made an error in bringing the numbers onto the formal proposal.<=
/span>
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Orsini: What is the $496,300?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: That he was just=
, I
don’t know, he had said that was an original target number, and then =
in
his own mind he was getting down to $448,000. I checked his numbers. For VET and Masik, he's got 64,370
square feet. If you divide th=
at by
like $3.00 a square foot, that's basically how you come up with $193,010. And I checked his numbers, further=
down
under the $431,310 there is $17,000.
I asked him what that was for, he said bonding insurance and other m=
iscellaneous
minor fees. There's nothing h=
ere,
it's not like it's evident that he just made the numbers higher.=
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Malik: Is there recourse? We have a bid bond against people =
when
they make . . . . .
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Porter: I think for a number that signific=
ant I
think you'd have a hard time getting them into a contract. For $10,000 maybe you could hold h=
is
feet to the fire, but $90,000?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
LoFrese: The other part t=
o this
is we need a contract signed by June 30th.=
If we try to hold anyone to it and we don't have that contract signe=
d,
the State funding is at jeopardy.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: No, when somebody =
wants
to back out of a contract and they've submitted the bid bond, then you're
holding their bid bond, and that sometimes can be, I'm not saying that that=
's
what we should do, I assume that that has been explored and the thinking is
that it's not going to pan out, and it truly was a mistake, which happens a=
nd .
. . . .
=
WATERTOWN PUBLIC BUILDINGS COMMITTEE
SPECIAL MEETING
JUNE 22, 2005
PAGE 5
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: Yea, I discussed=
these
results with Bruce Walpole and if the Building Committee wants to pursue the
bid bond, my answer to that is you'd have to talk to your lawyer about, but=
O
& G has seen over the years that when there's a mistake in the bid, the
contractor will win that, if it's a true mistake in the bid. That's just what they've seen in t=
he
past.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Porter: There's a $16,700 differential bet=
ween
the two bids.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Ceniccola: What number di=
d you
say he was (inaudible)?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: He told me the
$448,310 he meant on the formal proposal to be $446,300 and he said what we=
nt
on the formal proposal was $346,300.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Ceniccola: So he transposed 2 numbers?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: Yea, you could s=
ay
that.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Ceniccola: 3 numbers.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: I mean if there =
was
something in this breakdown that was glaring, but I don't see where he miss=
ed
anything.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Malik: So when you come down to the $335,=
310,
that accounts for labor, all the different components.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: Except the seale=
r,
that's what the $96,000 is after that number. The floor sealer, the Seal Crete.<=
o:p>
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Malik: Is there any way of verifying that=
the
sealer indeed does cost $96,000, or is that something that somebody has thr=
own
on after the fact to make the case?
I'm not trying to make it difficult, but just to have a level of
assurance, if it turns out that the true cost of putting the sealer down is
$10,000 or something like that, then there may be some other reason, I don't
think you want to pursue a contractor that doesn't want the work anyway, bu=
t it
does put us in a little bit of a tougher spot because we're going to the se=
cond
bidder who is, what's the difference other, $16,700. Maybe it's not even worth it, I th=
ink we
should just move it along to get the project going and everything else it
probably doesn't . . . . .
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Porter: I think it would be worth pursuing=
to
see what the sealer really is.
That's a legitimate question.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Orsini: Do you have a bre=
akdown
of other estimates, contracts, bidders?
=
WATERTOWN PUBLIC BUILDINGS COMMITTEE
SPECIAL MEETING
JUNE 22, 2005
PAGE 6
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: No, I don't have
breakdown on the other bidders. Everybody
just gave me a lump sum, that's how it was bid.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Khericha: I think the only reason this fello=
w gave
a breakdown is to substantiate (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: Yea, well I aske=
d him
to give me something in writing.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Malik: Well the second bidder is going to
submit a schedule of values for their bid, with the requisition, so we woul=
d have
a breakdown of that anyway.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Khericha: But it could be=
after
the fact once we gave them a contract.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Malik: But I don’t think we have mu=
ch
choice at this point, it's the timing of everything is such that I think yo=
u've
got to move forward. Maybe the
question is do you wait to release their bid bond until you at least satisfy
yourselves.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Ceniccola: I think you can put them on notice=
, let
them know we're investigating this.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Kuegler: If we decide to =
give
it to the second low bidder we tell them that we're looking at it because
there's a cost. One of the th=
ings
we might want to look at too is does this happen very often with Incor?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: That I couldn't te=
ll
you.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: Yea, the pattern=
if
you take a look, your two lower prices are New Jersey, and the more local
contractors, their bids start at $429,000 so his bid would have been $446,0=
00,
I mean he would have fell right in line with the Connecticut contractors. So my, I pursued SMAC to make sure=
that
they had everything, I was more concerned that theirs was not complete, so I
made sure that they included everything.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Orsini: The estimate on the bid package was
$335,000?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: Correct, that's w=
hat
shows up on the top of the . . . . .
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Orsini: Who estimated that bid?=
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: That was coming of=
f of
what we originally . . . . .
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Khericha: It came from Mark Granville, who i=
s the
consultant, provided us this number.
=
WATERTOWN PUBLIC BUILDINGS COMMITTEE
SPECIAL MEETING
JUNE 22, 2005
PAGE 7
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: And actually when =
that
estimate was put together we weren't looking at a bid this late in the seas=
on,
we were looking at a bid in the March/April timeframe. What we're seeing is probably the =
worst
time that you have because you're bidding late in the season for Summer work
which is, so everybody has their workload defined and they can pretty much =
pick
and choose how badly they want the work.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Chipko: That's basically what they said fo=
r the
roof at John Trumbull last week too.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: When I saw the 300=
numbers,
I thought we actually got away with .. . . . .the pricing came closer to the
estimate. At 363 we're now ro=
ughly
what, 28,000 over budget?
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Porter: Yes, almost 10%.=
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Orsini: If this is going =
to
continue, it doesn't look too good.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Malik: Well that's what the market is goi=
ng to
dictate, and again timing is going to be a critical aspect of it. Hopefully the timing will work to =
our
advantage in our other bids, cause we won't be looking for them to do Summer
work. They've already got the=
ir
plates full with Summer work and Fall work is what everybody is looking for=
.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Porter: Are there many school projects bei=
ng
bid?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: Ideally for school
projects you bid early in the year so that they can all gear up, and you get
out there you're one of the first bidders, cause Summer is the heaviest, ca=
use
everyone wants as much done during the Summer when the kids are out so that
time gets packed full.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Khericha: For example, we=
had a
very small project in Westbrook, very small one. It was gone out to bid with O &=
; G,
they're the C.M. on the other project, but this was a side one, and O &=
G
estimated like $250,000 to do the work.&nb=
sp;
Put it out to bid, it came back almost $600,000 because the work had=
to
be done in the Summer. And the
contractor said we are just so stretched out that we will have to work prem=
ium
times, double shifts, I mean they were shocked. The school decided the best thing =
to do
was rebid it after September and live with it.
&nbs=
p; Mr.
Porter: For that kind of money I would. Any further questions on the bid?<=
span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> I'll entertain a Motion then to aw=
ard
the contract to SMAC in the amount of $363,000 with the provision that we p=
ut
Incor on notice, we may be looking to them for the difference in the bid pr=
ice,
and send it to the Town Attorney to see if it's practical.
=
WATERTOWN PUBLIC BUILDINGS COMMITTEE
SPECIAL MEETING
JUNE 22, 2005
PAGE 8
&=
nbsp; MOTION: (Mr.
Kuegler, sec. Mr. Orsini) to award the contract to SMAC in the amount of
$363,000 with the provision that we put Incor on notice, we may be looking =
to
them for the difference in the bid price, and send it to the Town Attorney =
to
see if it's practical.
&=
nbsp; Discussion: None<=
o:p>
&=
nbsp; MOTION
APSSED UNANIMOUSLY
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Orsini: Just for the futu=
re,
you guys negotiate with these subs, get it down as low as you can?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: As much as we're
legally allowed to yes.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Orsini: What do you mean by legally (inaudible)?<=
/o:p>
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: Well it's a publ=
ic
bid, so you really can't negotiate (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Orsini: So can you go to =
this
contractor and say we have to bring the price down to this sum now?
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: No, not in a pub=
licly
bid job.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: You can talk about=
value
engineering. Now one of the t=
hings
for instance we could talk about here, I don't know if it is, whether we ca=
n go
to the alternative practice for containment which in some cases, instead of
going with two layers of poly you go with a single layer, and if that's
acceptable to the State, that saves you money basically. So that's something that we can
negotiate with them and process it as a change order.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Ceniccola: After the fact=
?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: Yes.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: Once a contract is
signed then you can negotiate, but not before.
&=
nbsp; Many
people talking at once (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Orsini: Maybe you can get=
this
price down.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Khericha: No, it's a scope
change.
=
WATERTOWN PUBLIC BUILDINGS COMMITTEE
SPECIAL MEETING
JUNE 22, 2005
PAGE 9
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Ceniccola: But if the sco=
pe
change were to have happened prior to the bid process then maybe the numbers
would have changed.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Khericha: I know, but you=
are
allowed to do that, but you can't negotiate for anybody other than the low
bidder.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Ceniccola: It should have=
been
an add alternate, I think.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: No, I don't know f=
or a
fact if Mark Granville had already investigated that and said no it can't be
done. That might be the case.=
I'm just throwing it out as an exa=
mple
of something we potentially could do.
I'm not sure.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Ceniccola: All I'm saying=
is if
we had done that prior to the bid process, and made that an add alternate, 1
versus 2, then maybe the bids would have been different, maybe we wouldn't =
have
been selecting this particular contractor, it could have been somebody else=
.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: It could, but we d=
on't
really know if that's going to be the case.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Ceniccola: I understand.<=
o:p>
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: And what I'm going=
to
find out is, guess what Rusty, yea, it's a great idea, but you can't do it
here. But on other cases we d=
o have
opportunities to have a value engineering discussion, it really is a functi=
on
of each community and how their attorneys interpret the law. We are negotia=
ting
with low bidders on other projects, but the key is you negotiate with them =
before
you sign the contract, but you sign the contract for the value of their bid,
and then you simultaneously process a change order, right, at the same time,
and if we need to we might have to do that.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Orsini: Who does that, yo=
u or O
& G?
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: All of us.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Orsini: I think we should
pursue that.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: Well on this
particular contract we don't have that kind of time. We have to be signed by next Wedne=
sday.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Orsini: But you sign the
contact first and negotiate later.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Khericha: It's not a
negotiation.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Orsini: Value engineering=
.
=
WATERTOWN PUBLIC BUILDINGS COMMITTEE
SPECIAL MEETING
JUNE 22, 2005
PAGE 10
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Khericha: If we can explo=
re
there's a possibility that we can pursue it and (inaudible).
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: We should be able=
to
find out from Granville. That=
would
be easy.
&=
nbsp; Ms.
Purcell: Yea, that I shou=
ld be
able to ask him.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Orsini: I mean you could =
have a
simple meeting, sit at the table and negotiate it.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Porter: Sign the contract=
, he's
not going to start until July 5th, so we're covered as long as the contract=
is
signed, and then you can do your value engineering.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Orsini: Fine.<=
/span>
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Malik: But in terms of the
future packages that come in, we can then take those packages and in that c=
ase
we'll have a little bit more time, and let's say we are over budget and hav=
e to
cut $20,000 or $50,000 or whatever that number is, that type of negotiation
will happen before we sign contracts, but there's a lot more to negotiate
with. On asbestos you can't s=
ay
we're not going to do asbestos abatement.&=
nbsp;
You just don't have a choice here.&=
nbsp;
Other than the alternative practices, that's about the only alternat=
ive
option that I've seen.
&=
nbsp; Mr.
Orsini: Sounds good to me=
.
4.&nb=
sp; Adjournment=
MOTION: (Mr.
Ceniccola, sec. Mr. Orsini) to Adjourn the Special Meeting at 5:55 p.m.
Discussion: None
MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
Special Meeting Adjourned at 5:55 p.m.=
Respectfully
submitted,
Robert
Porter, Chairman
Watertown
Public Buildings Committee
Approved: _____________________________=
__
Lynn
M. LaForme, Clerk